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I still feel weird about the expansion, especially since I'd buy a ton of those zombies for Deadzone
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Oct 2, 2013 18:30
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moths posted:I still feel weird about the expansion, especially since I'd buy a ton of those zombies for Deadzone Just remember that they will still be available for considerably less than $50 once the KS is over.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:32
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Baby Sathanas posted:Let's stop "wife talk" before the casual misogyny gets out of hand. I got things covered, boss. Just report poo poo if it so offends your eye.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:34
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Leperflesh posted:
Does anyone else really want sir forscale to be the bonus mini in this one?
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Oct 2, 2013 18:35
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berzerkmonkey posted:Just remember that they will still be available for considerably less than $50 once the KS is over. Oh definitely, and that's how I'll get the Derro. But horde figures (zombies, goblins, etc) make much more sense as a conventional add-on than as part of a bundle. ( ie: Put it where people will buy many instead of something you'll only buy once.)
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Oct 2, 2013 19:09
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These core expansion sets look really bad so far. I'm not paying 50% extra for stretch goals.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:11
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Indolent Bastard posted:These core expansion sets look really bad so far. I'm not paying 50% extra for stretch goals. It's just one expansion so far, and it's not totally unlocked yet. There should be other expansions later, hopefully they get unlocked soon to encourage more spending. But yeah, the one expansion so far isn't really interesting me much.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:17
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I get the feeling they're less "interesting" because there are a lot of large figures, which are normally about 2 for $10 or $15. Right now it's a fair value, and I imagine that after it gets fully unlocked it'd be a great value if you actually wanted most of the figures. Those Egyptian models look great, though.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:29
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I like the models of the Egyptian expansion but assuming the mummies are human scale and everything else in the picture is to scale with those, then that's not a lot for $50 by Bones kickstarter standards. Maybe not even by Bones retail standards, though I don't know. Then there's the fact that I'd effectively be paying $150 for it since I currently am not really sold on the core set. Goddamn it Reaper. Make it easier for me to give you money.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:29
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JerryLee posted:I like the models of the Egyptian expansion but assuming the mummies are human scale and everything else in the picture is to scale with those, then that's not a lot for $50 by Bones kickstarter standards. Maybe not even by Bones retail standards, though I don't know. If you don't like the core set you could switch to a $1 tier and effectively pay $51 for it. The core set is likely to improve more than the expansion set does by the end of the campaign, though.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:45
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Did they clarify that you could add 'expansions' to the $1 pledge level? I haven't seen anything explicitly to that effect and the wording "core set expansion" made it seem like it could only be used to, you know, expand upon the core set. I'd love to be shown wrong.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:48
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Today's updates are kinda boring, I don't need an 8th dragon. At least it's a big dragon in an action pose.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:51
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JerryLee posted:I like the models of the Egyptian expansion but assuming the mummies are human scale and everything else in the picture is to scale with those, then that's not a lot for $50 by Bones kickstarter standards. Maybe not even by Bones retail standards, though I don't know. The giants from Bones I (around the size of the big things in the expansion) are $8-10 retail, so yes, the expansion is already a good deal (the initial offering has 5 large minis plus smaller ones that will retail for less). It is cool if you (all, not just JerryLee) don't like those minis, but don't talk yourself into a bizarre alternate reality here: they're still a bargain at the price already (equivalent to the "$10 for two bigger things" +$ add-ons, easily less than retail), will be an even better bargain with the nigh-inevitable first expansion of the expansion, and will definitely be a good deal if it hits the second level. Indolent Bastard posted:These core expansion sets look really bad so far. I'm not paying 50% extra for stretch goals. So are you ok with +$ add-ons, but not ok with add-ons that also improve as the KS gets better funded? Or are you not ok with stretch goals in general that are +$ add-ons?
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Oct 2, 2013 20:42
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The logic behind the expansions is that they can't put quite as much value into the basic packages ($100 pledge level) as they did last time. Their choice was to either make it $150 (or $200, or more) from the start, or split off some of the stretch goals this way. I think they'll probably end up letting people add in specific bits from the expansions, the way they did with other stretch goals last time. Whether you'll be able to do that with the $1 goal, I couldn't say. But if they do, and all you want is derro or zombies or whatever, you could probably get together with another Goon pledging and see if they'll let you piggy back.
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Oct 2, 2013 20:46
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There's a heavy blow to the RotW-people: Estimated postages vary from 60-80 dollars /w canadians at $50. Last time it only cost a 1 Sophie (or 25$ if you for some reason wanted her), which was ok price. Sadly US post rates have skyrocketed. 
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Oct 2, 2013 20:55
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JerryLee posted:Did they clarify that you could add 'expansions' to the $1 pledge level? I haven't seen anything explicitly to that effect and the wording "core set expansion" made it seem like it could only be used to, you know, expand upon the core set. I'd love to be shown wrong. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-ii-the-return-of-mr-bones/comments?cursor=4504535#comment-4504534 Reaper posted:@Adam - Excellent question! If you pledge $50, you may select the Expansion. Thie expansion, like the core set, will grow over time, but the price never changes. When the project is over, everything in the Expansion is added to your reward for only $50. If you pledge $150, you could get the Core Set and the Expansion, or 2 Expansions and $50 worth of other options, or whatever. You definitely don't need the Core Set to get Core Set Expansions.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:03
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jammu posted:There's a heavy blow to the RotW-people: Is the cost calculator up somewhere, or is this coming from comments/forums?
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Oct 2, 2013 21:06
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homullus posted:The giants from Bones I (around the size of the big things in the expansion) are $8-10 retail, so yes, the expansion is already a good deal (the initial offering has 5 large minis plus smaller ones that will retail for less). It is cool if you (all, not just JerryLee) don't like those minis, but don't talk yourself into a bizarre alternate reality here: they're still a bargain at the price already (equivalent to the "$10 for two bigger things" +$ add-ons, easily less than retail), will be an even better bargain with the nigh-inevitable first expansion of the expansion, and will definitely be a good deal if it hits the second level. I don't mind stretch goals in general that are +$ add-ons. I don't like the +$50 expansions because they are just taking away from the core $100 level; even if I'm wrong it's what it feels like to me.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:09
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I was probably somewhat hasty. It's looking like the $50 addon will be plenty of value for the money by the time all is said and done, and it's good to see you can get it without doing the $100 level. I might still not want all the models in it but that's not Reaper's fault.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:14
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JackMann posted:The logic behind the expansions is that they can't put quite as much value into the basic packages ($100 pledge level) as they did last time. Their choice was to either make it $150 (or $200, or more) from the start, or split off some of the stretch goals this way. I hope so, all I really want is the dragon turtle and scorpion. Though I guess I can both for cheaper than 50 next year
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Oct 2, 2013 21:16
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It devalues the stretch goals when they're bundled with the pile of figures I don't care to spend $50 on. It's hard to get excited about stuff I'm not getting until retail.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:16
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Problem is, Indolent, that there's going to come a point where adding more minis to the core is going to start making them lose money. Don't think of this as taking away from the core level. It's just making sure that new minis are available. Like a mini Kickstarter within the Kickstarter. Yo dawg and so forth. If you don't want the expansion, that's fine. But this makes sure that the minis will be available for purchase later on down the line.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:17
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thespaceinvader posted:Is the cost calculator up somewhere, or is this coming from comments/forums? They posted a chart with their costs, and in comments they've said that 70% of the shipping cost covered 5000 ROW backers while 30% of the cost covered 13000 US backers. They lost money on some of the ROW backers. I've been going back through their comments, and they mentioned that with 18000 backers they ended up making 1200 Sophies, about 1/3 of which were the naked variety. Really not surprising they decided to leave her out of this one.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:17
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thespaceinvader posted:Is the cost calculator up somewhere, or is this coming from comments/forums? Comments. "Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value: Poland $80 Australia $80 UK $72 Germany $60 Canada $50 Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg."
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Oct 2, 2013 21:19
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JackMann posted:Problem is, Indolent, that there's going to come a point where adding more minis to the core is going to start making them lose money. Don't think of this as taking away from the core level. It's just making sure that new minis are available. Like a mini Kickstarter within the Kickstarter. Yo dawg and so forth. While that is probably true, it still doesn't make me care. I want the core set to be outrageous, not just ok with a bunch of $50 upgrades that I can buy.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:24
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Ta. And yeah, sophie was hugely not worth it. I had the impression of it being a 54mm model for some reason, so I got it cos I thought the wings might be useful, and the motorbike might be cool. It's sub-28mm, and pretty poo poo.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:27
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It probably doesn't help that the core bonuses are labeled TREAT, implying that the paid stretch goals are the trick.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:29
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I think it mostly boils down to this fact: Bones II didn't make Reaper enough money, so Bones II inevitably isn't going to be as good a deal as Bones I was. That's going to turn off some folks, and I can't help but feel disappointed myself, too. That's going to hold true even if Bones II makes two or three times as much money as I did, because the way it'll make more money is by having more backers, and that means Reaper has to make and ship more stuff, and that means that they still can't offer as good a deal as I. So, I guess the perspective that's needed is, well, Bones II isn't as good as I, but it's still a fantastic deal compared to other miniature kickstarters, and especially compared to paying retail for non-Bones miniatures from other companies. So I'm in for the $100, plus probably another $70+ in stretch goals, but I'll be sad that I'm getting maybe half to two thirds as many figures, and Reaper has to be very careful that this disappointment doesn't wind up hurting their brand. I also think some ROW customers will have to accept that miniature kickstarters based in the US are just not going to be great deals for them, due to high shipping costs. That sucks, but it is what it is.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:41
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I dunno. Its a bit early to call the new campaign "not as good as Bones I". There are some pretty neat miniatures in the core set so far. The ROW thing -does- suck... and it makes me really glad to have a US address to have things sent to.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:51
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So I ran a few numbers based on what's up on the Kickstarter page, because I'm a data junkie when it comes to my kickstarters. Note that these numbers don't include any of the Dungeon Dressings, which I don't care about, and the paints or the cases. If you pledge the core and all the add-ons that aren't paint, cases, or terrain, right now you're looking at $294. The core is 135 figs for $100, or $0.74 per fig. If you go all in, you're paying $294 for 207 figs, or $1.42 per figure. That does include all the big dragons and whatnot. The $50 core expansion is currently 25 figs for $50, or $2 a fig. I'll keep updating these numbers as we go for my own personal edification, and can keep posting here if this is of interest to anyone.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:55
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Peas and Rice posted:So I ran a few numbers based on what's up on the Kickstarter page, because I'm a data junkie when it comes to my kickstarters. Note that these numbers don't include any of the Dungeon Dressings, which I don't care about, and the paints or the cases. I think it's pretty relevant and interesting. I guess my perspective is different, because my local retailer has a rack of Bones, and I have seen a wall of how much more these retail for. It's nice to know how good the deal is!
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Oct 2, 2013 22:02
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Peas and Rice posted:So I ran a few numbers based on what's up on the Kickstarter page, because I'm a data junkie when it comes to my kickstarters. Note that these numbers don't include any of the Dungeon Dressings, which I don't care about, and the paints or the cases. Care to run the numbers of the first campaign through that analysis so we can compare?
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Oct 2, 2013 22:06
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jammu posted:Comments. How do you even use that calculator, when I try to type a $ sign it doesn't let me put it in, and then it refuses to calculate because I didn't "enter a dollar value" [EDIT] Oh wait nevermind, I chose the box type before I entered the number and it got confused. bobvonunheil fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 2, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2013 22:07
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Indolent Bastard posted:Care to run the numbers of the first campaign through that analysis so we can compare? Yeah, I can definitely do that, but probably won't have a chance to input everything until I get home from work tonight. I'll also run it with the terrain too just so it's a flat 1:1 comparison.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:13
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Yeah I think the numbers aspect is interesting. If shipping is $60-70 I'm not sure how much I'll pledge for - they're bound to have many more planned, imagine spending up to $500 for 1 core and 4 or more expansions, plus add-ons...
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Oct 2, 2013 22:15
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Thing is, even with getting a bit reamed on postage, this is still going to be cheaper than retail, and thus probably worth it if you want the things. My main issue is that with a few exceptions, I don't really. And most of them would have been SO much better the other way around.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:41
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jammu posted:5 kg, $300 value: Poland $80 thanks, saves me the worry.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:47
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Leperflesh posted:I think it mostly boils down to this fact: Bones II didn't make Reaper enough money, so Bones II inevitably isn't going to be as good a deal as Bones I was. That's going to turn off some folks, and I can't help but feel disappointed myself, too. I thought the reason Bones 1 was such a good deal is they weren't really trying to turn a profit "selling" bones through kickstarter, and instead were trying to underwrite the molds and injection equipment, and firing off the initial batch as a reward to the people who chipped in to do that. I would hate to think they're just using Kickstarter as a "pre-order store" now, much sense as it might make with the success of the first one to cash in on. Right now though it seems maybe on track to be roughly as good a value as the Vampire reward as long as they keep smattering in "purple" stretch goals. And yes even as it is right this instant, it's a great value, but Bones has forever spoiled me with avaricious desire of fifty cent monsterman playtoys. It's their own fault for setting the bar so high! Also nothing they can do about it but the possibility of someone ninja'ing my Wave 2 pledge makes me leery of adjusting it upwards.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:56
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Otisburg posted:I thought the reason Bones 1 was such a good deal is they weren't really trying to turn a profit "selling" bones through kickstarter, and instead were trying to underwrite the molds and injection equipment, and firing off the initial batch as a reward to the people who chipped in to do that. Yes, I think that's what they originally wanted to do with Bones I. However, fullfillment of Bones I tied up 100% of the company's resources for months, and that carries a huge opportunity cost. Even if they "broke even," in the respect that they got enough pledge money to finance all of the minis they sent out, the labor, the shipping, and the machines they wanted to buy, they still probably lost two to four months of normal-operating profits by having to shut everything else down just to fulfill orders. This time around, I think they're more cognizant of just how big this thing is compared to their normal operations; they want to ensure they get enough money that they can fulfill (potentially triple or quadruple as many) Bones Kickstarter orders, while also carrying on and conducting their normal business operations. At least, that's how I would want to run things if I were in charge at Reaper. quote:I would hate to think they're just using Kickstarter as a "pre-order store" now, much sense as it might make with the success of the first one to cash in on. Right now though it seems maybe on track to be roughly as good a value as the Vampire reward as long as they keep smattering in "purple" stretch goals. I'm certain they're using Kickstarter to underwrite the costs of converting metal casts to Bonsium plastic casts, plus develop brand new sculpts for the Bones line and make casts of them. That is normally a big capital expenditure that, if you just borrow the money like a normal business would do, takes years and years to pay itself off. The KS gives them a way to underwrite those conversions instantly, so that from day 1 production runs of Bones for retailers are profitable. quote:Also nothing they can do about it but the possibility of someone ninja'ing my Wave 2 pledge makes me leery of adjusting it upwards. Huh? No, if you go in and add money to your pledge, that does not even temporarily drop your pledge. I'm pretty sure it's totally safe.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:05
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Leperflesh posted:Huh? No, if you go in and add money to your pledge, that does not even temporarily drop your pledge. I'm pretty sure it's totally safe. Huh, Reaper themselves posted a comment indicating that you were (however briefly) pulled out of a reward teir when you adjusted your pledge and there was nothing they could do about it.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:10
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