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JawnV6 posted:No. That poster's point was entirely orthogonal to that. The running gospel in here is "don't ever, ever, ever, ever be the first to say a number" when there's a shitload of situations where that's not the right approach. At my current job I'm the first software engineer with a lot of experience. You think I let them take an uninformed SWAG as the anchor point? His whole post was, "have experience so you can say you want $X amount first, because you can justify it" which doesn't apply to the people here who have little to no experience. Even your situation is rare. How many posters in here will ever be in that exact situation? 1: Being a SWE already with senior experience and 2: Being a SWE who is coming into a company where all the other SWEs are fresh out of college or are on their first job and (maybe) 3: being at a company that is going to offer the same amount to Jr SWEs vs Sr SWEs? I have been thinking a lot about this, since it comes up so often. I can't say which way is "better" but I think a lot of people severely underestimate their worth and lowball themselves in the negotiations all the time. So I am weary of having people say a number first. Not picking on "it is" personally, but how is it he is now asking about what to charge for consulting work when a page before he was able to confidently address how to handle salary? How does he know his worth only when it comes to salary, but then now he can't estimate his own hourly wage for consulting work? It's because he already had data points on which to base his high offer on. He knows how much new hires are paid there, and so he is willing to bet that his experience will allow him to get 30% more. Again, this is rare as it requires you to know someone who works at the company and is willing to reveal their salary to you. And assuming "it is" gets that actual offer of 30% more than his fellow coworkers, it could mean anything. It could mean that they believe his experience to be worth a premium, (but could also mean he lowballed himself because they didn't flinch on the price) or that his coworker friends just don't know poo poo about negotiations and lowballed themselves (which is quite possible given the fact that most people don't know how to negotiate). One pro I see about offering a price up first is you can gauge whether or not the company can actually afford you, but I think you can do that anyways by asking them for their ballpark price when they're trying to get a number out of you. At least that will allow some leeway for you to negotiate stock/vacation time or other benefits. If you just say, I want $200K, and maybe their max is $160K but they are willing to dole out stock to compensate for some of the difference, they may just pass thinking you're looking for just cash (which may or may not be the actually case).
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Oct 2, 2013 20:45
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Cicero posted:Of course you'd be in a stronger position with more experience. But that's always true. Being overlooked because some HR/hiring whoever wants someone who will stick around longer?
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Oct 2, 2013 21:37
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Being overlooked because some HR/hiring whoever wants someone who will stick around longer? It's different if you're a contractor. You were contracted for those 4 months so it's not like you had much say in that.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:49
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My issue is if I put down "blabla contractor" and then I end up going steady with these people, then someone calls and I go "oh I went full time." Wouldn't that look bad?
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Oct 2, 2013 21:57
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2banks1swap.avi posted:My issue is if I put down "blabla contractor" and then I end up going steady with these people, then someone calls and I go "oh I went full time." Do you owe them that explanation? Couldn't you just say you had taken another opportunity and you're no longer available for other offers, thank you for your interest?
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Oct 2, 2013 22:01
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2banks1swap.avi posted:My issue is if I put down "blabla contractor" and then I end up going steady with these people, then someone calls and I go "oh I went full time." Look bad to whom? The company for which you no longer have any interest in working? What exactly do you think they're going to do? Publish your name on a blacklist full of people who *gasp* applied to company A and then took an offer at company B? Ruin your career? You're way, WAY too deep into over-analysis and over-worry territory here. Stop it.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:35
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Who in here was offering mock interviews? I could use the help.
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Oct 2, 2013 22:54
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wolffenstein posted:Who in here was offering mock interviews? I could use the help. Probably me, but keep in mind that my mock interview is 100% technical assessment for .NET developers. I don't care about a time you had a conflict with a co-worker and how you resolved it. 
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Oct 2, 2013 23:00
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2banks' experiences just confirm the reasons why I ran the gently caress away from Jacksonville. Unfortunately now I'm back  I do want to move back up to Massachusetts. How is the job market up there? I know that there's a lot of biology and medicine around Boston, and the software dev market seems to be decently well developed. Does anyone have familiarity with the Greater Boston Area re: getting a job? How would I, as a relative novice, break into the market there?
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Oct 2, 2013 23:30
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Pollyanna posted:2banks' experiences just confirm the reasons why I ran the gently caress away from Jacksonville. Unfortunately now I'm back Apply for jobs. When you get one, move there - preferably with your relocation expenses paid. Boston has plenty of Software Dev jobs.
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Oct 3, 2013 00:13
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2banks1swap.avi posted:My issue is if I put down "blabla contractor" and then I end up going steady with these people, then someone calls and I go "oh I went full time." Now it IS a red flag if you've had 10 jobs in 5 years. That says to me you suck and you've been found out at every job. Or you're un-work-with-able. But we're talking your first job, a contract position, and possibly a few months more as a full time. That's totally normal. I say take the salaried position, ask for the bump, and just keep pounding the pavement. Get your stuff up on LinkedIn, Careers Overflow and trawl Craigslist. Just keep at it, and you'll be out here in the beautiful Bay in no time.
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Oct 3, 2013 00:45
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Ithaqua posted:Probably me, but keep in mind that my mock interview is 100% technical assessment for .NET developers. I don't care about a time you had a conflict with a co-worker and how you resolved it.
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Oct 3, 2013 01:12
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wolffenstein posted:Well I've never touched .NET, and I do need help with the non-technical questions as well. Thanks anyway. if you want to do some: non-technical questions algos c++ haskell hit me up with a pm. depending on your timezone i can do some nights/mornings.
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Oct 3, 2013 01:24
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shrughes posted:Tell them that they're loving noobs and they don't know poo poo.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:27
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shrughes posted:
Can you perhaps elaborate on his rationale here...?
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Oct 3, 2013 03:39
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It really does seem like everyone wants to hire a Java developer, at least just from looking on Indeed.com. Easily like at least 50% or more. I think I'm gonna try learning C#, since I installed Mono. I should also learn SQL, if I'm gonna doing Bioinformatics...what's SQL anyway?
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Oct 3, 2013 03:39
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Pollyanna posted:It really does seem like everyone wants to hire a Java developer, at least just from looking on Indeed.com. Easily like at least 50% or more. http://jobstractor.com/monthly-stats
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Oct 3, 2013 03:40
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Of course the top two are Java and PHP. Just great 
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Oct 3, 2013 03:42
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Stoph posted:Can you perhaps elaborate on his rationale here...? It's a common lisp convention. E.g. http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_nump.htm
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Oct 3, 2013 03:45
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That programming language popularity thingy is probably different depending on your area. For example, C# is hot as heck in NYC right now.
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Oct 3, 2013 05:00
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Pollyanna posted:It really does seem like everyone wants to hire a Java developer, at least just from looking on Indeed.com. Easily like at least 50% or more. Language choice doesn't matter that much. My company is a Java company, but we'll hire anybody with Ruby, C#, Python, PHP etc experience because once a person knows a modern object oriented language it isn't hard to teach them another. As for SQL, it's a generic language for accessing or updating databases. A lot of things use it, Oracle, Postgres, MySQL etc. At the more basic end it's knowing commands like "SELECT * FROM BUTT" but saying that you have real knowledge of it implies more that you know databases than that you know syntax, so how to design and maintain them.
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Oct 3, 2013 05:15
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Pollyanna posted:I should also learn SQL, if I'm gonna doing Bioinformatics...what's SQL anyway? SQL is for when you can't just stick that data in a flat file anymore and people get grumpy when you try to spread it over the file system.
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Oct 3, 2013 07:06
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ManoliIsFat posted:Seeing a contract position turning in to a full time job is mostly a positive for me. Just put on your resume "Jan-April: contractor April-Present: developer" It happens a couple of different ways: sometimes it's a small company, you started contracting, and as their needs grew, they look to you more and more. Or you were just so good they said "man, we've gotta keep this guy around". All of those are good things that do nothing but reflect well on you. (Or it's a trial run of a contract where they were always gonna hire you if you could fog a mirror, but you don't have to tell anyone that). That you've proven yourself at another company is always a positive, if you ask me. If it's so acceptable, if not expected, that I go looking even this early, then I'll do so. I kind of like the interview game. I never have a reason to play dress up otherwise!
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Oct 3, 2013 16:00
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I was applying for a job online and ran into this.quote:In 150 characters or fewer, tell us what makes you unique. Try to be creative and say something that will catch our eye! I'm not creative or eye-catching. Could someone give me a hint as to what they're looking for here? I'm not expecting a canned answer, I get the feeling they're not looking for one, but some kind of direction would be nice, or I'll end up droning on about my cactus farm and picture collection of Obama making funny faces.
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Oct 3, 2013 20:40
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Probably the cactus farm.
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Oct 3, 2013 20:45
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The cactus farm sounds ideal.
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Oct 3, 2013 20:47
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Yeah I'm pretty sure they just want to hear something memorable about you/ amuse themselves with the responses.
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Oct 3, 2013 20:52
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Zero The Hero posted:I was applying for a job online and ran into this. They're looking for cleverness or interesting things. Cleverness would be things like: - a haiku - a URL to something - some compressed version of something - ASCII art
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Oct 3, 2013 21:01
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Whenever I see those things I just make up some big lie about myself like saying I can balance a hundred plates on my head or that I'm the Gerber baby. Coincidentally I don't have a job yet, so maybe my way doesn't work too well.
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Oct 3, 2013 21:32
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2banks1swap.avi posted:If it's so acceptable, if not expected, that I go looking even this early, then I'll do so. I kind of like the interview game. (just keep at it bro. it's all so intimidating, then before you know it, you'll be at a firm for years, probably get a promotion or two, and the world will be your oyster)
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Oct 3, 2013 21:40
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No Safe Word posted:- ASCII art It's on a hard drive that got lost in a move, but I once wrote a quine in Perl that included an animated ascii goatse (inspired by spiral.pl). It was more than 150 characters though If you could do something similar I bet that would land you the job though.
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Oct 3, 2013 22:44
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Otto Skorzeny posted:It's on a hard drive that got lost in a move, but I once wrote a quine in Perl that included an animated ascii goatse (inspired by spiral.pl). It was more than 150 characters though Good idea, thanks for the advice man.
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Oct 3, 2013 23:10
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Today I got a message from a small startup on StackOverflow Careers asking if I'm interested in this job posting they have for a lead front end developer, with emphasis on "expert web engineer". I've had no previous development jobs, no internship, and I'm not an expert in anything at this point.
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Oct 4, 2013 04:18
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piratepilates posted:Today I got a message from a small startup on StackOverflow Careers asking if I'm interested in this job posting they have for a lead front end developer, with emphasis on "expert web engineer". Option 1) Fake it 'till you make it. Option 2) Shoot them an email and explain your doubts.
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Oct 4, 2013 04:31
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option 3) run
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Oct 4, 2013 04:35
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piratepilates posted:Today I got a message from a small startup on StackOverflow Careers asking if I'm interested in this job posting they have for a lead front end developer, with emphasis on "expert web engineer". It might be that it costs them very little to cast the net wide (anyone who's truly awful will gently caress up the first test), and they could save a fair bit of cash if they find someone who's good but doesn't know they're good. Similarly, the "expert" bit might be speculative and they're more than willing to settle for someone newer. Or it might be that they didn't realise just how much "expert web engineers" cost, and everyone with experience has laughed their offer out of the room.
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Oct 4, 2013 04:42
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piratepilates posted:Today I got a message from a small startup on StackOverflow Careers asking if I'm interested in this job posting they have for a lead front end developer, with emphasis on "expert web engineer".  Congrats on getting a cold call from some mailing list you landed on. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 05:06
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To everyone who takes this too seriously: I got here early enough to turn the lights on. I finally noticed the cheeto stains. You're a programmer working with other programmers. Chill. We haven't even been here a year. I'm honestly kind of shocked it's that built up so fast. Fuck them fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 13:39
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I would quit if those were the conditions at work.
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Oct 4, 2013 14:14
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It's literally the only blemish in the office, and probably dirt from a prior tenant, but that ruins the joke. Because you're taking it too seriously.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:03
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