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UberJumper posted:The Astronomican is extremely powerful yes, but i seem to recall that one of the main reasoning behind why the east of milky way galaxy is so under developed is because the signal is so distant that the navigators can barely use it to navigate. Rather, the problem is you're making way too many assumptions and jumps of logic.
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Oct 6, 2013 06:07
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UberJumper posted:The nearest galaxy is ~2.5 million light years away, so the tyranids would have had to leave a long long time ago. I am pretty sure even if the emperor didn't setup his lighthouse. I am assuming the tyranids would still be coming, regardless. What leads you to conclude that the warp only seems to exist within the milky way? Especially since the Tyranid hive-mind seems to work though warp telepathy, which is also the origin of the shadow in the warp that they cast. Also, the reach of the Astronomican, like everything else in the warp, is probably non-Euclidean and non-linear in the extreme. Aries posted:Just into the first few pages of The Unremembered Empire, and a tiny spoiler, but this has more to do with prior novels and if I've missed something concerning the whole 'Imperial Truth' motif. The Chaos Gods aren't truly gods and shouldn't be worshiped - they're merely powerful and malign extra-dimensional intelligences, with values and influences essentially inimical to life and the material universe. At best, they're gods in the old Greek sense, or maybe in a sort of Platonic sense, but also evil. The same goes for the Emperor - he's an insanely powerful psyker but still human in his own way, and worshiping him will only make humanity ever more dependent on him instead of independent and strong and ready for their super-psyker future. At least, that's one way to look at the situation. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 06:08
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Sorry my question became rather diffuse in the rant. What I am asking is: The Unremembered Empire suggests the Primarchs knew the truth about the warp all along, even to the extent of their own births, yet I thought (from previous novels) that they were ignorant of the truth and subscribed to the Emperor's whole 'Imperial Truth/No Warp Sentience' schtick?
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Oct 6, 2013 06:26
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Cream_Filling posted:What leads you to conclude that the warp only seems to exist within the milky way? Especially since the Tyranid hive-mind seems to work though warp telepathy, which is also the origin of the shadow in the warp that they cast. If the warp exists throughout space why do the powers within the warp seem to be localized to the milky way? The chaos gods were born in the milky way, and everything seems to imply their fates are tied to the milky way. Yet if the warp exists everywhere, wouldn't their fate be tied to the other galaxies as well? Like if humanity dies, and all war and death ceases to exist, and everyone lives in peaceful harmony wouldn't that be barely a drop in the bucket, when there are millions of other galaxies Khorne could go get power from? Cream_Filling posted:Also, the reach of the Astronomican, like everything else in the warp, is probably non-Euclidean and non-linear in the extreme. If the Astronomican can't even reach the Eastern Fringe, how is it expected to reach Tyranids that are far far beyond our own galaxy? Non-linear or not, the distance is insane.
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Oct 6, 2013 06:36
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UberJumper posted:If the warp exists throughout space why do the powers within the warp seem to be localized to the milky way? The chaos gods were born in the milky way, and everything seems to imply their fates are tied to the milky way. Yet if the warp exists everywhere, wouldn't their fate be tied to the other galaxies as well? Like if humanity dies, and all war and death ceases to exist, and everyone lives in peaceful harmony wouldn't that be barely a drop in the bucket, when there are millions of other galaxies Khorne could go get power from? Other galaxies probably have other gods. The chaos gods are closer to the Greek pantheon than the Abrahamic omnipotent god.
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Oct 6, 2013 06:41
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UberJumper posted:If the warp exists throughout space why do the powers within the warp seem to be localized to the milky way? The chaos gods were born in the milky way, and everything seems to imply their fates are tied to the milky way. Yet if the warp exists everywhere, wouldn't their fate be tied to the other galaxies as well? Like if humanity dies, and all war and death ceases to exist, and everyone lives in peaceful harmony wouldn't that be barely a drop in the bucket, when there are millions of other galaxies Khorne could go get power from? Again, what are you getting this stuff from? You're making a lot of wild assumptions out of nothing and then relying on them like facts. If you're going to make assumptions, since this is fiction, you're supposed to pick things that have interesting outcomes and fit the themes of the universe, not ones that make no sense. The powers within the warp seem to be localized to the milky way only because the viewpoint for the entire game universe takes place in one galaxy so naturally we never hear about what's going on in some other galaxy and don't really care. For all we know, the rest of the universe is boring and lifeless either due to cosmic coincidence, the doings of the tyranids, or some other, greater mystery - it's intentionally kept mysterious and the gameworld is defined at the boundaries of the galaxy with nobody knowing what goes on outside of it. Also, where do you get the idea that the chaos gods were born in the milky way? It's pretty clearly stated that the chaos gods exist wholly within the warp, so they weren't 'born' anywhere. UberJumper posted:If the Astronomican can't even reach the Eastern Fringe, how is it expected to reach Tyranids that are far far beyond our own galaxy? Non-linear or not, the distance is insane. It can't be used reliably for navigation on the Eastern Fringe, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's invisible. And also everything about the warp is insane. It's not supposed to be a rational or comprehensible place for people from this universe.
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Oct 6, 2013 06:49
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The chaos gods are reflectiona in the warp created by the minds of the people in the Milky Way, it makes sense to think of them as 'localised' to our galaxy. The space between galaxies would, by it's nature, have nothing there to reflect.
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Oct 6, 2013 06:59
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Cream_Filling posted:Again, what are you getting this stuff from? You're making a lot of wild assumptions out of nothing and then relying on them like facts. If you're going to make assumptions, since this is fiction, you're supposed to pick things that have interesting outcomes and fit the themes of the universe, not ones that make no sense. The powers within the warp seem to be localized to the milky way only because the viewpoint for the entire game universe takes place in one galaxy so naturally we never hear about what's going on in some other galaxy and don't really care. For all we know, the rest of the universe is boring and lifeless either due to cosmic coincidence, the doings of the tyranids, or some other, greater mystery - it's intentionally kept mysterious and the gameworld is defined at the boundaries of the galaxy with nobody knowing what goes on outside of it. Yeah i am over thinking things terribly  , trying to rationalize the 40k universe is a bad idea. Cream_Filling posted:Also, where do you get the idea that the chaos gods were born in the milky way? It's pretty clearly stated that the chaos gods exist wholly within the warp, so they weren't 'born' anywhere. I swear it was one of the past codexes (i want to say Necron) that implied that the 3 Chaos gods came into being during the war between the C'Tan and the Old Ones. Cream_Filling posted:It can't be used reliably for navigation on the Eastern Fringe, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's invisible. And also everything about the warp is insane. It's not supposed to be a rational or comprehensible place for people from this universe. Yeah true. Thanks, i am being dumb and trying to rationalize a universe where we don't even know what if anything is true. So how is unremembered empire? Is it worth picking up?
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Oct 6, 2013 07:08
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As to decent Corax novels, the one published recently is fair enough. It's also an Alpha Legion book.
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Oct 6, 2013 07:40
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Cream_Filling posted:Also, where do you get the idea that the chaos gods were born in the milky way? It's pretty clearly stated that the chaos gods exist wholly within the warp, so they weren't 'born' anywhere. Actually, it's been pretty much stated in the past that the Warp doesn't extend past the Milky Way galaxy. Some of the canon also confirms that the chaos gods were born there. The further you get from the core of the galaxy the less presence the Warp (Note, not the Immaterium.) has. This is part of why the Exodite Eldar still exist, since they're hiding out at the galactic fringes. It's also why Macharius didn't just keep rolling around the galaxy forever in a giant murder-train. The whole "the nature of Chaos is self destructive" thing wouldn't make any sense either if they were some sort of universal force. Otherwise they'd just keep on trucking if the eye of terror ate the entire galaxy/chaos adherents managed to wipe everything out. Hell, this was pretty much the Cabal's (rather stupid, poorly thought out) plan. They wanted to give Chaos a definitive win so it would turn on itself and purge the galaxy, reducing it to a relatively clean slate. The reasons on why this is have changed according to what's canon, but I think the current canon has a precursor race (Which are basically the lizard dudes from FB, only not devolved.) being responsible for pretty much every horrible thing that happens in the setting. They're the ones that made the Eldar, gave humanity psychic vulnerability/abilities, and made the Orks thinking they could use them as a slave warrior race. They're also not around anymore since they discovered the warp and started screwing with it, too. They got the attention of a race of Immaterium dwelling creatures called "Enslavers". Enslavers aren't really mentioned much outside the more horrific bits of fluff since they're so incredibly overpowered. Suffice to say that they basically gobbled up the Old Ones, forced the C'tan into hibernation, and killed almost all advanced sentient life in the galaxy. This was while the Old Ones frantically sought to keep everything alive by any means. Which hosed up the galaxy even further down the line since they weren't around to control their creations. The wiki says it better, and keeps me from having to type up more  .quote:...To combat these terrible foes, the Old Ones created new warrior races to battle for them, including the Eldar, the Rashan, the K'nib and the Krork, who may be the ancestors of the Orks. Knowing that the C'tan were vulnerable to psychic energies, the Old Ones designed their warrior species to be psychically linked to the Immaterium. Basically, the moral of Warhammer 40K is to not gently caress with eldritch lovecraftian dimensions of existence if you don't want them to become psychically active and eat the entire loving galaxy. Otherwise your galaxy is safe from it. That doesn't mean the other galaxies are fine, though. It's hinted that the Tyranids may be running away from something else in another galaxy. And given the setting it's more likely that each galaxy has it's own brand of horror. You just don't have to worry about sanity devouring monstrosities in most of them, most likely.
Archonex fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 08:23
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Archonex posted:The reasons on why this is have changed according to what's canon, but I think the current canon has a precursor race (Which are basically the lizard dudes from FB, only not devolved.) being responsible for pretty much every horrible thing that happens in the setting. They're the ones that made the Eldar, gave humanity psychic vulnerability/abilities, and made the Orks thinking they could use them as a slave warrior race. The "Hey guys the Warhammer Fantasy is separate from W40k *wink wink" died a while ago and there is no connection anymore. The Old Ones are responsible for every major Warp related feature of W40k. The fought the Necrons, won and caused them to turn to the C'tan. They built the Webway, they built the Elder and gave them the Webway keys, they made the Orks, and whatever else they built whenever BL needs a seriously ancient warp device for some reason. They've been expanding on the Necron's influence, making them the ones who built the pylons on Cadia that hold back the Eye of Terror, the Void Dragon influencing the Mechcanicum, etc. Those 2 races are fairly convenient source for explaining anything ancient and unknowable without effecting the current balance of power in W40k.
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Oct 6, 2013 08:51
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pentyne posted:The "Hey guys the Warhammer Fantasy is separate from W40k *wink wink" died a while ago and there is no connection anymore. The whole setting inter-connectivity thing doesn't really have much to do with it. A lot of that stuff I mentioned is still being featured in the fluff. Heck, the Enslavers showed up in a book series a year or so ago. Aside from that, Ciaphas Cain's secondary arc also features what's almost certainly either a C'tan or Old One artifact that makes people psychically active, too. Only since the galaxy's gone to hell since it was made it usually just spits out demons at anything that gets too close to figuring out how it works. Ravenor also features a proto-demon from when Chaos was first forming. It's basically far less malevolent than modern day demons. It's more like a loaded gun, in fact. A loaded gun that blends humans on command. The whole "Old Ones tried to save the galaxy, were actually one of the only good races, but were also incredibly stupid about how they went about it." thing is definitely still a core concept in the lore. It's basically an explanation of why the setting is so screwed up. The Imperium isn't just a decaying institution. It's just the latest result of every race being one since poo poo went south a long, long time before humanity came around. The concept of decaying technology and knowledge extends all the way back to when the Old Ones got themselves wiped out. What's neat about Warhammer is that there's a ridiculous amount of "ancient history" lore that's completely separate from the game. It basically explains why the galaxy is basically hosed forever short of Chaos getting a total win. And even in that case Chaos will basically kill everything, further reducing the capabilities of anything that emerges from the rubble. Archonex fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 09:01
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I heard a fan theory that the Tyranids are the creations of surviving Old Ones, sent to cleanse the galaxy of the psychic races that are warping the Immaterium.
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Oct 6, 2013 10:06
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Archonex posted:The whole setting inter-connectivity thing doesn't really have much to do with it. A lot of that stuff I mentioned is still being featured in the fluff. Heck, the Enslavers showed up in a book series a year or so ago. My own perspective on the Old Ones is that the Eldar were set up to fail; a physically perfect race blessed with immense psyker abilities were given the keys to the webway and tier 4 level technology to fight the Necrons, then the Old Ones left and the Eldar spent the next 60 million years in a post scarcity society slowly descending into complete and utter depravity eventually creating an evil god from the sheer excess of their decadence. I don't think the Eldar can make new Webway Gates, or even fix it. Once things started to fail all they could do was cross off the gate on their maps. I'd love for some Eldar novels from someone besides C.S Goto because there are so many problems with the Eldar lore. I've read that no Eldar children have been born since the Fall, but that must be impossible and the fluff makes such a massive deal over some Eldar characters being 10,000+ years old. That, and Exodites are almost never mentioned, each Craftworld is supposed to be a wholly unique culture, and the Black Library/Harlequins offer immense potential in the hands of a talented author. Ian Watson's Inquistion War creates the most visual, descriptive, and confusing perspective, but expands on nothing not related to the Inquisition main character.
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Oct 6, 2013 10:07
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UberJumper posted:I just re-read alpha legion. So the Alpharius and Omegeon are shown a vision by aliens, and just like that decide to side with Horus? Fully knowing it will leading mankind to extinction? Alpha Legion was about making the tough choices. They would do the dirtiest of work if it meant the best for humanity. They were shown a war with two possible outcomes. 10k years of struggling and strife leading to humanity dying a slow death similar to a gut shot wound to the gut, or a quick death when Horus realizes what he has done and burns the entire galaxy in guilt. They "sided" with Horus seeing it as a mercy killing. But it seems that Alpha is a betrayer while Omega is playing Alpha and seeding other plans that could lead Alpha Legion to the side of loyalty. I picked up Iron Guard by Mark Clapham mostly because I'm out of books I want to read and the next HH book release (in retail) is still a few months off. Read so many Marine books lately that perhaps a Imperial Guard book will be a nice change of pace. EyeRChris fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 11:20
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pentyne posted:My own perspective on the Old Ones is that the Eldar were set up to fail; a physically perfect race blessed with immense psyker abilities were given the keys to the webway and tier 4 level technology to fight the Necrons, then the Old Ones left and the Eldar spent the next 60 million years in a post scarcity society slowly descending into complete and utter depravity eventually creating an evil god from the sheer excess of their decadence. I don't think the Eldar can make new Webway Gates, or even fix it. Once things started to fail all they could do was cross off the gate on their maps. I know it's not quite what you're asking about, but Andy Chambers has some Dark Eldar books out. I've only read the first one so I can't really recommend the entire series. I found the first book to be oddly bland. It was clear the author was trying to show off how crazy their society is, but it never works quite right for me. Still, the book wasn't bad and may be worth checking out. It even involves a raid on a maiden world and features some Exodite stuff. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 11:28
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Cream_Filling posted:The Chaos Gods aren't truly gods and shouldn't be worshiped - they're merely powerful and malign extra-dimensional intelligences, with values and influences essentially inimical to life and the material universe. At best, they're gods in the old Greek sense, or maybe in a sort of Platonic sense, but also evil. The same goes for the Emperor - he's an insanely powerful psyker but still human in his own way, and worshiping him will only make humanity ever more dependent on him instead of independent and strong and ready for their super-psyker future. At least, that's one way to look at the situation. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 12:12
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Kurzon posted:In practice, humanity relies on the Emperor only in his role as a magnificent lighthouse. Otherwise, they've been fending for themselves ever since the end of the Horus Heresy. They certainly aren't being true to his teachings, what with their religious fanaticism and abhorrence of science. What is badly needed is for the Emperor, or at least one of the Primarchs, to return and set the Imperium straight. Reform the Inquisition, disband the Ecclesiarchy, and enlighten the Mechanicum. Except Humanity clearly had some functioning system going during the Dark Age of Technology that required neither then Emperor nor psykers that was far superior to anything the Emperor could create after the Age of Strife. A huge amount of isolated human civilizations encountered by the Imperium are vastly superior in technology but lose out to sheer quantity or brutality. The more they explain about the Emperor, the less sense every single thing he did makes, and no matter what Humanity was far better off in the Dark Age then he could ever make them.
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Oct 6, 2013 12:48
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Well, the post AoS-galaxy was different in nature from the previous. Supposedly, the Warp was a calmer place and Navigators could go through it without a beacon. I've also read somewhere that humanity wasn't unified in a single empire, but a myriad of independent states that nonetheless helped each other out against aliens and the like. After the AoS, humanity was in tatters. There were also lots of psykers running around that needed controlling; before the AoS they were very rare. It's no joke that humanity needed a common and ruthless policy for dealing with them. The Great Crusade was the Emperor's attempt to restore humanity to glory in a form that could handle the new threats it faced. But yeah, a lot of the things the Emperor did made no sense. Why did he not reform the Mechanicum at the very start of the Great Crusade, when he first landed on Mars? That would have been easier than leaving it for later, when the Adeptus Mechanicus became this huge bloated organization ingrained into his empire. Why wasn't he suspicious of the Chaos Gods' motivations for merely scattering the Primarchs instead of just killing them (they had a plan for the Primarchs, of course!).
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Oct 6, 2013 13:32
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A lot of what you're saying is untrue or questionable, though, like believing that the warp and the immaterium are somehow two different things. The wiki isn't some sort of authoritative source, either - a lot of it is just made up or else a conflation of various old and new sources. It's also a giant universe with a lot of lore from different eras that often conflicts, and it's for the most part all intentionally ambiguous. Like your claim that "the warp doesn't extend beyond the Milky Way." There's really no source for that statement at all. Nobody knows much about the Old Ones or what happened to them. You're interpreting it as "the old ones were stupid" because you want them to be stupid. For all you know, this was all preordained as part of some cosmic-scale master plan. Or they just peaced out of this screwed-up galaxy and went to a better one. Or ascended to some higher plane of existence and all we see is the leftover detritus of their civilization churning along aimlessly. It's, again, intentionally ambiguous. Kurzon posted:In practice, humanity relies on the Emperor only in his role as a magnificent lighthouse. Otherwise, they've been fending for themselves ever since the end of the Horus Heresy. They certainly aren't being true to his teachings, what with their religious fanaticism and abhorrence of science. What is badly needed is for the Emperor, or at least one of the Primarchs, to return and set the Imperium straight. Reform the Inquisition, disband the Ecclesiarchy, and enlighten the Mechanicum. This is also not necessarily true. It's unknown how much the Emperor is involved with the material universe. It may actually be true that the Emperor's tarot shows the Emperor's will, or that the miracles of faith of the sororitas and others are actual miracles. Nobody knows, and it's left to the reader to believe as they want to believe. It's also questionable whether getting rid of the ecclesiarchy is possible or desirable in this late stage. You're speaking of the return of the Emperor or his primarchs is something somehow more probable than the second coming of Jesus Christ, i.e., it's not going to happen. And why is disbanding the ecclesiarchy a good thing? They help bind the extremely diverse cultures of the imperium together and direct them to fight the aliens, enforce the edicts collecting psykers, etc. Millions of people die every day based solely on faith, making it an enormously useful institution. The Inquisition seems to actually perform its duties and serve its purpose as well as can be expected for a galaxy-spanning informal organization - they're often the only ones with half a clue when it comes to the machinations of chaos. The same goes for the Mechanicum - at this point, it seems like the level of knowledge required to operate most of the Imperium's tech base is completely gone and only sustained by their cargo-culting. The Emperor had a lot of teachings over the years, all of which were tailored to the needs of humanity at that point in history. He is alluded to have been many religious leaders and prophets over the years, just as he pushed the Imperial Truth as part of some other unknown gambit during the Great Crusade era. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 14:12
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Safety Factor posted:I know it's not quite what you're asking about, but Andy Chambers has some Dark Eldar books out. I've only read the first one so I can't really recommend the entire series. I found the first book to be oddly bland. It was clear the author was trying to show off how crazy their society is, but it never works quite right for me. Still, the book wasn't bad and may be worth checking out. It even involves a raid on a maiden world and features some Exodite stuff. Andy Chambers actually wrote a whole series of Eldar books in the past year or so, including craftworld eldar, rangers, and exodites. They were all pretty bland and boring and I wouldn't recommend them. I actually liked GW's previous "no alien viewpoints" policy because the eldar in those books aren't sufficiently alien in viewpoint - they're just really whiny fantasy novel people. edit: my bad. As the dude below says, Gav Thorpe wrote the Path of the Eldar books. Which is probably a big part of what made them so terrible. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 14:18
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Gav Thorpe wrote the Path of the Eldar series. I only read the first one, about an artist who got friendzoned by his childhood friend and became a Striking Scorpion. Yeah, that's what happened there. I read two out of Andy Chambers' Dark Eldar series. While what was happening on page was quite interesting (the titular character in Path of the Renegade was a Ranger who betrayed his kind and became a Dark Eldar), the prose was incredibly dull and lacked a good voice. I don't recommend any of these.
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Oct 6, 2013 14:43
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Cream_Filling posted:Andy Chambers actually wrote a whole series of Eldar books in the past year or so, including craftworld eldar, rangers, and exodites. They were all pretty bland and boring and I wouldn't recommend them. I actually liked GW's previous "no alien viewpoints" policy because the eldar in those books aren't sufficiently alien in viewpoint - they're just really whiny fantasy novel people. I was all excited when I saw Andy Chambers wrote something because holy poo poo, it's Andy Chambers. But then I read the first book and it was just so bland.  I really have to agree with the "no alien viewpoints" policy. Most of their authors wouldn't be able to pull it off well, especially with Eldar. Still, I'd be kind of interested to see what Chambers could do with a regular Imperial viewpoint.
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Oct 6, 2013 14:45
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Safety Factor posted:I was all excited when I saw Andy Chambers wrote something because holy poo poo, it's Andy Chambers. But then I read the first book and it was just so bland. The only possible exception to the alien viewpoints thing might be orks because orks are awesome and I'm curious what an ork book would be like. If it's something like Deff Squadron then it could work.
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Oct 6, 2013 14:48
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Kurzon posted:Well, the post AoS-galaxy was different in nature from the previous. Supposedly, the Warp was a calmer place and Navigators could go through it without a beacon. I've also read somewhere that humanity wasn't unified in a single empire, but a myriad of independent states that nonetheless helped each other out against aliens and the like. I think humanity was always suppose to be one big empire. The HH books even spells out the idea that there were planets waiting for reunification. Cream_Filling posted:The only possible exception to the alien viewpoints thing might be orks because orks are awesome and I'm curious what an ork book would be like. If it's something like Deff Squadron then it could work. I don't understand why they don't just continue with Deff Squadron or something similar. It's still arguably the best xenos story out there.
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Oct 6, 2013 15:00
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Orks could work pretty well. I remember when I read some Gav Thorpe Dark Angels battle book (Kallidus?) I actually thought he did a good job with the Ork prologue and epilogue. His marines are really inconsistent though and seem to die like flies. And it goes without saying that Deff Skwadron is amazing.
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Oct 6, 2013 15:02
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Cream_Filling posted:The same goes for the Mechanicum - at this point, it seems like the level of knowledge required to operate most of the Imperium's tech base is completely gone and only sustained by their cargo-culting.
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Oct 6, 2013 16:26
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Kurzon posted:I'd avoid trying to justify/rationalize an absurd fictional institution that has no real-world precedent. You asked for an answer, I gave you an answer. Also, just like many of the other "fantasy middle ages in space" elements of the setting, the Mechanicum is clearly a reference to medieval-era trade guilds, which were often steeped in mysticism as well as secrecy. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 16:29
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Just powered through The Unremembered Empire in one sitting last night. Overall enjoyable, but it felt like some things were coming out of nowhere. Probably because I haven't read Vulkan Lives and some other stuff. The way Abnett portrayed the Dark Angels was pretty interesting as well, wish he'd expand on them a bit. If the Lion is teaming up with Guilliman at this point, it refutes the fallen Angel's claim in Angels of Darkness that the Lion was sitting the Heresy out and waiting to see who won.
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Oct 6, 2013 17:06
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Cream_Filling posted:You asked for an answer, I gave you an answer. More obviously they are the Foundation... from Foundation.
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Oct 6, 2013 17:11
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Nephilm posted:(re: Space Wolf geneseed carrying canine genetic components) It is explicitly stated in Deliverance Lost.
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Oct 6, 2013 17:18
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Wasn't the question in the books whether the canine DNA was in the geneseed or in the Fenrisians themselves? At least that's what I remember from Prospero Burns. Anything in Deliverance Lost is questionable, because it was written by Gav Thorpe, and oh my god is it a bad book. On the eldar subject, I really liked the Dark Eldar trilogy by Chambers.
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Oct 6, 2013 17:43
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If I were going to compare Unremembered Empire to any of the other books, it would be Horus Rising. Some books focus on the development of a character (Betrayer), some focus on action (Know No Fear), some on a major event that directs the course of the plot (Prosperto Burns). and some are primarily a setup/world building for other events. That is where UE falls. Nothing that happens really moves the overall plot of the Heresy along. While we finally get a major character in the hands of a great author (the Lion) that is a minor part. The action is primarily tacked on to the third act, a clear riff on a major movie, and not really relevant to the major thrust of the book. (That said it absolutely kicks rear end). The major focus is that the stuff being done makes it clear why the Imperium is the way it is 10,000 years from now. Some posts back someone said they wish Guilliman had been around to direct the Imperium so it wouldn't have decayed. Here we learn that most of the decay is a result of the changes Guilliman institutes to deal with the heresy. We see why the ultramarines are ultra dickheads in the future, instead of how they were in KNF. We see why the Imperium went from a network of systems sharing trade and knowledge to a series of loosely connected shitholes banded together by military and ideology. We see the change in how regular people are treated from the hopes of the future to fodder for the war machine. We see the start of how the diverse legions becomes the standardized chapters, with skills integrated. We see Guilliman craft his own brutal inquisition, which will clearly fold in with Malcador's honorable one and explain why it is how it is and the split in the future between radicals and puritans. We see why marines in general behavior become the way they are in the future. It was a fun read (the reverse Terminator stuff with Vulkan as Arnold was fantastic) but it is definitely more of a workhorse of the series than Know No Fear or Betrayer. Also, daemon pokeballs
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Oct 6, 2013 17:55
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Fellblade posted:More obviously they are the Foundation... from Foundation. You could also argue that this is the unknown people who created the STCs. But yes there are references to lots of classic sci-fi also mixed into the space middle-ages parts of the setting.
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Oct 6, 2013 18:10
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VanSandman posted:As to decent Corax novels, the one published recently is fair enough. It's also an Alpha Legion book.  ?
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Oct 6, 2013 20:39
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That book is nothing more than a series of monumentally retarded decisions by the loyalists, and terrible clumsy gambits by the traitors. It is also filled with Mary Sue-esque unique snowflake bullshit such as gellar fields that double up as Klingon cloaking devices. It is a very bad book.
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Oct 6, 2013 21:10
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:That book is nothing more than a series of monumentally retarded decisions by the loyalists, and terrible clumsy gambits by the traitors. It is also filled with Mary Sue-esque unique snowflake bullshit such as gellar fields that double up as Klingon cloaking devices. 
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Oct 6, 2013 21:14
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:That book is nothing more than a series of monumentally retarded decisions by the loyalists, and terrible clumsy gambits by the traitors. It is also filled with Mary Sue-esque unique snowflake bullshit such as gellar fields that double up as Klingon cloaking devices. It also isn't, you know, Battle for the Abyss.
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Oct 6, 2013 21:40
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Well yeah, but then what is?
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Oct 6, 2013 21:56
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| # ? May 11, 2024 09:18 |
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Battle for the Abyss, sadly.
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Oct 6, 2013 21:59
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