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Grumbletron 4000 posted:I kinda like the turbo badge on the Optima. It takes me back to the 80's when cars advertised turbos on every available piece of real estate. It reminds me of the early 90s, when every company was slapping ABS emblems all over their cars and vans.  Edit: It's really hard to find examples since every image result for "ABS Emblem" just brings up aftermarket plastic car bits. Edit:   I remember seeing these red ones on Chevy Lumina APVs Ulfhednar fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 18:04
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Ulfhednar posted:It reminds me of the early 90s, when every company was slapping ABS emblems all over their cars and vans. The frustrating thing about this is my 2008 Corolla doesn't have ABS.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:50
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re: Optima talk. Oh man, hopefully they have some 2013's left  I need to get a new car soon.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:51
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CarForumPoster posted:The frustrating thing about this is my 2008 Corolla doesn't have ABS. Wow seriously? Where the gently caress do you live where this is even possible?
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Oct 7, 2013 20:58
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The real question is why would you ever want a car that has ABS? I've never owned an ABS equipped vehicle, new or old, where the ABS system didn't come on under inappropriate circumstances or just be an all around lovely system that doesn't work well.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:05
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The King of Swag posted:The real question is why would you ever want a car that has ABS? I've never owned an ABS equipped vehicle, new or old, where the ABS system didn't come on under inappropriate circumstances or just be an all around lovely system that doesn't work well. Never owned one but has strong opinions! 2 or 3 channel ABS from 1984 is not at all like ABS from even 20 years ago.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:08
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The King of Swag posted:The real question is why would you ever want a car that has ABS? I've never owned an ABS equipped vehicle, new or old, where the ABS system didn't come on under inappropriate circumstances or just be an all around lovely system that doesn't work well. But for the bulk of drivers, ABS is better than no ABS. Consider that most drivers have no idea what threshold braking is anymore, if they even did before the prevalence of ABS. And the vast majority of those who do and learned how to actually accomplish it haven't done so since their driver training.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:19
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DJ Commie posted:Never owned one but has strong opinions! 2 or 3 channel ABS from 1984 is not at all like ABS from even 20 years ago. The King of Swag posted:I've never owned an ABS equipped vehicle, new or old, where the ABS system didn't... I didn't say I've never owned an ABS equipped car, as I've owned several, I said I haven't owned one where it actually worked well enough that I would consider it a net gain to drivability/safety. If we expand from just cars that I've owned to cars I've driven regularly for work/etc, then we expand to 7-8 vehicles equipped with ABS, only one of which actually worked well. The one that worked well was a 2008 Dodge 3500 Dually stake-bed, although I will admit that I have no idea how well it worked when it came on, because when that thing was fully loaded, I drove it like a grandma, because I didn't feel like killing anyone in a heavy as gently caress truck. I say it worked well because it didn't come on when braking with a heavy load, which is the opposite of my brother's 2005 B2300 and a Ranger I temporarily drove for work, which would have the ABS kick on anytime you touched the brake with a fully loaded bed.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:19
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I learned to threshold brake when I was taught how to drive and in hairy situations I find myself still doing it, to the point where the ABS doesn't really kick in...not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:20
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The King of Swag posted:I didn't say I've never owned an ABS equipped car, as I've owned several, I said I haven't owned one where it actually worked well enough that I would consider it a net gain to drivability/safety. I think it depends on the make. The ABS in my Corvette was hilariously awful to the point of being dangerous, and I drove it for several months with the ABS fuse pulled out. Contrast that with the ABS in my E92s, which can do crazy poo poo like braking whichever wheels have traction and being able to independently balance out braking force instantly depending on grip levels.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:35
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Das Volk posted:I think it depends on the make. The ABS in my Corvette was hilariously awful to the point of being dangerous, and I drove it for several months with the ABS fuse pulled out. Contrast that with the ABS in my E92s, which can do crazy poo poo like braking whichever wheels have traction and being able to independently balance out braking force instantly depending on grip levels. The ABS in your corvette wasn't dangerous at all. You drive better than the average halfwit which means you understand how to brake and turn properly, so the ABS felt like a hindrance. For 90% of people ABS is a lifesaver, no matter how lovely. When someone brakes suddenly in front of you on the freeway in the pissing rain, the majority of people just bury the brake pedal. Which is basically the scenario ABS is designed for. That doesn't even enter into the various ESC systems which are common on almost every vehicle (at least in my country) and have various levels of sophistication. I find the ESC in average family vehicles extremely irritating and restricting but I can still see how it's immensely superior to nothing at all if you're a hopeless driver, which is most people.
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Oct 7, 2013 22:04
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ABS has its place. I'm glad the Fairlane has it although sometimes I do question it a little. It's a heavy car and doesn't stop too well. Sometimes ABS kicks in and all I can think is "Really?". I never had ABS in any other vehicle and never had any problems stopping either. Come to think of it just yesterday when I was testing the rear brake adjustment on the Niva (which I hosed up) I went out to a lovely potholed and corrugated gravel road and just kept speeding up and hitting the anchors to get a proper feel for the brakes on it which were really good on dirt by the way. They were designed for fine control on ice so I suppose that makes sense. I'm sure that pretty much nobody sets out to test the limits of their vehicle to find where they are which may or may not lead to a lot of avoidable situations occurring. It could also be argued that people try to drive so they never get near the vehicle's probable limits too.
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Oct 7, 2013 22:26
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The biggest issue I had was what I've heard referred to as "ice mode" which in the Corvette meant "hit a 1 inch wrinkle in the road and the brakes instantly go to 25%" mode. I don't know if it's actually meant for ice but the split second of lost traction meant the ABS tried to send me into the back of another car more than once. Doesn't help that CA has lovely roads either but I think EinTier complained about something similar back when he crashed his.
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Oct 7, 2013 22:37
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Das Volk posted:The biggest issue I had was what I've heard referred to as "ice mode" which in the Corvette meant "hit a 1 inch wrinkle in the road and the brakes instantly go to 25%" mode. I don't know if it's actually meant for ice but the split second of lost traction meant the ABS tried to send me into the back of another car more than once. Doesn't help that CA has lovely roads either but I think EinTier complained about something similar back when he crashed his. I think in his case it was the stability control overreacting + summer tires in cold temperatures, but yeah there are definitely edge cases where the computers can be more of a hindrance than a help.
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Oct 7, 2013 22:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:I think in his case it was the stability control overreacting + summer tires in cold temperatures, but yeah there are definitely edge cases where the computers can be more of a hindrance than a help. Yup, traction control and snow.
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Oct 7, 2013 23:15
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Just watched a woman try to parallel park a Corolla in a spot that a Yukon would easily fit into for the duration of my cigarette. This was with an external spotter as well 
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Oct 8, 2013 00:55
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Linedance posted:Yup, traction control and snow. You mean flipout mode? I suppose adding edge case automatic disabling would leave them wide open for lawsuits so with it still on they can still say it was working as designed.
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Oct 8, 2013 00:58
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KoRMaK posted:re: Optima talk. Oh man, hopefully they have some 2013's left I'm sure they do, the 2014's are just starting to hit this month. That said, Kia isnt offereing any crazy rebates or discounts for 2013's right now anyway.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:53
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For what it's worth, I'm a pretty noob driver and my current car which has abs stops much better than my last car
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Oct 8, 2013 01:53
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I've only slammed on my brakes twice in my life. The first one was during snow, so... ABS didn't really shine too much there. The second time was during heavy rain when a semi decided to make a huge right turn across two lanes. I guess they must have worked alright, because I stopped no more than six inches away from it; very surprised I didn't hydroplane and have the top of my car sheared off from the underside of the trailer.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:13
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ABS actually makes your car take longer to stop; the entire point of ABS is that it keeps your tires from locking up, so you're still able to steer the car, instead of just careening forward.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:37
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I can't believe I've totally misunderstood the concept for so long. Maybe that's what kept me from hydroplaning? Either way, I survived, so I'm just happy things turned out the way they did. Would have been a hell of a nasty crash had I not been able to stop in time.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:45
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The King of Swag posted:ABS actually makes your car take longer to stop; the entire point of ABS is that it keeps your tires from locking up, so you're still able to steer the car, instead of just careening forward. Longer to stop in relation to what? It takes longer to stop compared to threshold braking, sure, but it's certainly much, much faster to stop than locking up and sliding.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:45
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The difference between an abs stop and threshold braking is only a couple of feet from 60mph. Locked wheels mean an extra couple dozen feet.
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Oct 8, 2013 03:01
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jamal posted:The difference between an abs stop and threshold braking is only a couple of feet from 60mph. Locked wheels mean an extra couple dozen feet. On a very sophisticated, modern esc system there essentially is no difference at all because it can detect individual wheels slowing down fast enough that they never lock, so it never needs to release and re-apply.
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Oct 8, 2013 03:02
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jamal posted:The difference between an abs stop and threshold braking is only a couple of feet from 60mph. Locked wheels mean an extra couple dozen feet. This is correct, I just brought it up to explain what the design intention of an ABS system is.
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Oct 8, 2013 03:06
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ABS-equipped vehicles have a reduction in "culpable involvements with other vehicles" of 17% in dry conditions and 37% in wet, snowy, or icy conditions. source ABS is a very good thing to have (for the average driver). e: Need to add terrible stuff to brake chat, this is what happens when you rely on ABS at the track and it fails: 
Neptr fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 03:12
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I thought when you were hydroplaning, you wanted to aim your front tires in the direction you wanted to go and kinda tap the gas pedal a little bit. Kinda like if you were drifting like someone from Fast & The Furious. Wouldn't hitting the brake cause the tires to stop entirely and present virtually no friction to the road surface? On an unrelated note, why is the turning radius for some cars so terrible? It really shouldn't be more difficult to get into a parking space when going forward than it is when backing up. It kinda weirds me out how I can make more precise turns and movements when backing up than when I am going forwards. Jakcson fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 03:29
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The King of Swag posted:ABS actually makes your car take longer to stop; the entire point of ABS is that it keeps your tires from locking up, so you're still able to steer the car, instead of just careening forward. This is a ridiculously uninformed opinion. To think this is that case means that you believe locked up wheels stop faster. The logical conclusion of which leads to thinking these elaborate ABS systems are being designed for.....what purpose? To increase stopping distances for the average driver?
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Oct 8, 2013 03:33
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I think he meant compared to threshold braking, although that difference is negligible at best, and I imagine the newer systems (read: not the literally first-gen systems like what got ripped out of my Blazer) have closed that gap significantly, if not eliminated it outright.
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Oct 8, 2013 03:35
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Motronic posted:This is a ridiculously uninformed opinion. To think this is that case means that you believe locked up wheels stop faster. The logical conclusion of which leads to thinking these elaborate ABS systems are being designed for.....what purpose? To increase stopping distances for the average driver? Read his post 3 posts prior to yours, that isn't what he's saying. Jakcson posted:I thought when you were hydroplaning, you wanted to aim your front tires in the direction you wanted to go and kinda tap the gas pedal a little bit. Yes, you tap the brakes to let the wheels start spinning freely, then reapply the brakes so that you can slow down. A rolling tyre with brakes applied slows down much more quickly than a sliding one. ABS does this for you but extremely quickly and efficiently, all you have to do is mash the pedal like a gorilla. You can make more precise turns and movements because the arc inscribed by your steering pair of wheels is much larger when reversing, letting you move more of the car in a smaller area. This is why fork hoists have the steering wheels at the rear. edit: forgot to add: turning radius is dictated by the overall wheelbase and width of the car, the size of the wheels, the size of the wheel arches (ie how far the wheels can steer before they have to stop to avoid contacting the body) and the steering system employed (rack and pinion, recirculating ball, variations thereof). Some cars are better than others; smaller cars tend to be better in general because they're short and narrow. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 03:41
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^^^^^^^^^^^^ This guy gets it.Motronic posted:This is a ridiculously uninformed opinion. To think this is that case means that you believe locked up wheels stop faster. The logical conclusion of which leads to thinking these elaborate ABS systems are being designed for.....what purpose? To increase stopping distances for the average driver? The King of Swag posted:This is correct, I just brought it up to explain what the design intention of an ABS system is. Cmon guy, this was only 3 posts above yours. To be explicit, I was commenting on the fact that the original design intention of ABS systems wasn't to reduce stopping distances so much as it was to all around prevent drivers from locking up the wheels, which obviously prevents you from avoidance steering. Yes, locking up the tires means you also take longer to stop, but a working (especially older) ABS system did increase stopping distances over threshold braking. The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 03:45
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Jakcson posted:On an unrelated note, why is the turning radius for some cars so terrible? It really shouldn't be more difficult to get into a parking space when going forward than it is when backing up. why? its kinda obvious you can turn more sharply when going backwards. I mean look at forklifts, they all steer from the back edit: what the guy before me said :P
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Oct 8, 2013 03:56
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I've only had two cars with ABS my old '96 Saturn and my '04 GTP. It was fairly jarring when it kicked in on the Saturn but the Pontiac is fairly unobtrusive. It definitely helps if you actually know how to drive and are aware of what ABS does. Ridiculous badging and ABS related note,  Pontiac advertised ABS on the wheel caps for long while, even after it was a commonplace feature on almost every car. Most of the GM 3800 series cars loved to announce the supercharger too. My own car has a tiny badge on the trunk.
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Oct 8, 2013 04:20
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Grumbletron 4000 posted:I've only had two cars with ABS my old '96 Saturn and my '04 GTP. It was fairly jarring when it kicked in on the Saturn but the Pontiac is fairly unobtrusive. It definitely helps if you actually know how to drive and are aware of what ABS does. So it's not a molded plastic wheel then?
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Oct 8, 2013 04:37
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General_Failure posted:So it's not a molded plastic wheel then? If GM could have, they would have.
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Oct 8, 2013 05:35
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Linedance posted:Yup, traction control and snow. Oh god this. After driving my first traction controlled vehicle for work in the snow last winter I'll never get in a vehicle again without instantly turning it off. You go to merge onto a busy street, give it a bit of gas and have the engine cut power so you're now sticking out into oncoming heavy traffic. Not fun. Traction control for things like getting up icy hills/steep hills on trails is junk too. I had it on in my Frontier going up a muddy slope and the traction control kicked on, cut power to my struggling truck and I stalled it on a steep hill. Having to hill start on a greasy 45 degree incline is pretty sketchy. Plus I don't know about you guys but I have been the victim of embarrassment at the drag strip trying to do a burnout in my old RX-8 and having the TC kick on at the wrong moment. I hate traction control, I don't understand it's function. It seems like taking control away from the driver and doing something unexpected isn't safer in any way shape or form. If I start to slide due to losing traction I know what to do to get the vehicle settled, TC just gets in the way of that.
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Oct 8, 2013 06:33
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opengl128 posted:If GM could have, they would have. I'm pretty sure GM did include chrome clad wheels on at least some of the newer malibus. By chrome clad I mean steel wheels with a chrome plastic cover molded on. Alot of Ram trucks have those. I kinda wish I had them on my car cause the chrome plating is falling off of my wheels in huge chunks.
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Oct 8, 2013 06:51
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Samu posted:Oh god this. After driving my first traction controlled vehicle for work in the snow last winter I'll never get in a vehicle again without instantly turning it off. You go to merge onto a busy street, give it a bit of gas and have the engine cut power so you're now sticking out into oncoming heavy traffic. Not fun. My car has abs and traction control optional, Im glad it has neither. Im also glad its rwd even though it means putting it away for 5 or so months out of the year.
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Oct 8, 2013 06:57
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Saying "ABS takes longer to stop than threshold braking" is silly since the vast, vast majority of real world drivers on real world roads lack the capability to do threshold braking at all, let alone do it to the degree they're going to beat a modern computer.
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Oct 8, 2013 07:03
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