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the jizz taxi posted:I might as well ask here: why has Czech culture and language remained such a persistent island when it's been constantly surrounded and influenced by the (much bigger and traditionally more influential) German culture and language?
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Oct 8, 2013 09:59
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German settlers didn't really encroach on anything, they had been invited to colonize the inhospitable borderlands, and first waves of organized German colonization occurred during the High Middle Ages. That doesn't mean there wasn't a huge amount of tensions between the Czechs and Germans of Bohemia throughout the history. Anti-German sentiments fueled by religious differences rose to prominence in the 15th century, leading to severe reduction of privileges granted to foreign Masters of the Prague University (it was more significant than it sounds), and other events in the build-up to the Hussite revolution. Also, until the 17th century, Czech noble estates were powerful enough to prevent foreign elements from affecting the native language, and a rule that migrant aristocracy had to learn Czech were put into place, together with a privileged administration for Bohemian Christian denominations. Nevertheless, the failed anti-Habsburg coup of 1618-1619 led to curbing of Bohemian self-governance within the Habsburg monarchy, and to an influx of foreigners who took custody of estates abandoned / seized from rebellious Czechs. German language was also officially put on the same level as Czech, and censorship of literature was introduced to combat seditious ideas of the natives, cities came under German hegemony (Prague in particular became German in nature, and when Czech started founding political parties after 1848, they had to do so in seedy pubs because all high-street establishments were pro-German), and extensive swaths of rural areas largely Germanized and alienated from their customs. Even though ethnic Germans didn't replace ethnic Czechs, the nobility which ran everything from bureaucracy to manufacturing was often ethnically German, and didn't bother to adjust their behaviour to new conditions. This period, which lasted with varying degrees of intensity until the 19th century, has been dubbed as The Dark Ages, but contemporary scholarship argues that this interpretation of history is inluenced by nationalism, and that the violent downfall of Czech culture wasn't nearly as drastic. The turning point, and renaissance of an independent Czech community, came with the period of National Revival, and the consequent establishment of distinctly Czech linguistic, academic, cultural and political institutions sponsored largely by philanthropists from old Bohemian families that reconnected with their heritage. tl;dr: The Czechs weren't always an independent or distinct entity, and in fact for long periods of history they were suppressed, and their culture neutered. The modern Czech nationality and culture is to a large extent a reconstruction created by 18-19th century scholars, and spread by politically mobilized activists. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 12:51
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steinrokkan posted:German settlers didn't really encroach on anything, they had been invited to colonize the inhospitable borderlands, and first waves of organized German colonization occurred during the High Middle Ages. That doesn't mean there wasn't a huge amount of tensions between the Czechs and Germans of Bohemia throughout the history.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Invited by who? I assume the Czech nobility, which could make one question the legitimacy of the invitation in the first place. The other events you describe also seem to fit the word well enough to me, even if it's not straight up American-style swamping of the local population. By the king. Also, I should stress that there was a difference between ordinary German settlers who just peacefully lived in their villages and towns, and aristocracy, clergy & bureaucracy that replaced the original owners of feudal titles. The former don't deserve to be shunned, it's the latter who intended to make themselves and their kin into a new ruling class.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:45
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steinrokkan posted:By the king.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Absolutely, I was just speaking in terms of the Czech-German linguistic/cultural border, though I guess the use of the word encroachment might have unfairly painted the early German settlers with the same brush as the later German nobility. In most of these cases, especially before the rise of nationalism, there was no specific intent to encroach upon the other party's culture or language. It's similar to how the Dutch-French linguistic border has shifted slightly northward over the centuries, simply because French at this time had a higher status and was widely accepted as a lingua franca. Most of the natives accepted the cultural conversion 'willingly', albeit under obvious sociological pressure. And just like Flanders is deeply influenced by French culture, I get the impression that German culture has left its mark on the Czechs, despite the aftermath of WWII.
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Oct 8, 2013 14:52
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Czech republic is also one of the few countries in europe you can basically see from space without the need of any borders. It's surrounded on all sides by mountains/hills and almost looks like a huge crater in central europe. Although the real answer is that the Hapsburgs were too lazy to spend a few hundred diplo points to magically convert the Czechs over the course of 2-3 years.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:02
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Baronjutter posted:Czech republic is also one of the few countries in europe you can basically see from space without the need of any borders. It's surrounded on all sides by mountains/hills and almost looks like a huge crater in central europe. 
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Oct 8, 2013 15:08
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Baronjutter posted:Czech republic is also one of the few countries in europe you can basically see from space without the need of any borders. It's surrounded on all sides by mountains/hills and almost looks like a huge crater in central europe. Oh wow I'd never looked at that before. Go to Google Maps and switch the borders off. The eastern part isn't so clear but the north/west border is absolutely along the mountain lines, you really can see most of the country's border purely from natural markers. Neat.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:23
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SaltyJesus posted:E: Haha I know this thread makes a big deal out of France's cultural assimilation policies, but speaking as someone from a family with roots in Alsace from pre-french conquest, in 1871 we had no popular desire to join Germany and throughout the Kaiserreich period Alsace-Lorraine was unique in being the only "german" territory to be administered directly from Berlin rather than federally. By 1918 there wasn't necessarily a huge desire to be reincorporated into France but there was definitely a strong undercurrent of pro-french, anti-kaiser sentiment throughout the annexation, and France did in fact give Alsace-Lorraine a few liberties that remain to this day. Cultural imperialism is bad but it was better than the Reich's actual imperialism.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:29
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thecolorpurple posted:I know this thread makes a big deal out of France's cultural assimilation policies, but speaking as someone from a family with roots in Alsace from pre-french conquest, in 1871 we had no popular desire to join Germany and throughout the Kaiserreich period Alsace-Lorraine was unique in being the only "german" territory to be administered directly from Berlin rather than federally. By 1918 there wasn't necessarily a huge desire to be reincorporated into France but there was definitely a strong undercurrent of pro-french, anti-kaiser sentiment throughout the annexation, and France did in fact give Alsace-Lorraine a few liberties that remain to this day. Cultural imperialism is bad but it was better than the Reich's actual imperialism. Hey, thanks for the input, I genuinely appreciate it. Can you weigh in on the events of November 1918?
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Oct 8, 2013 16:03
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Phlegmish posted:In most of these cases, especially before the rise of nationalism, there was no specific intent to encroach upon the other party's culture or language. It's similar to how the Dutch-French linguistic border has shifted slightly northward over the centuries, simply because French at this time had a higher status and was widely accepted as a lingua franca. Most of the natives accepted the cultural conversion 'willingly', albeit under obvious sociological pressure. And just like Flanders is deeply influenced by French culture, I get the impression that German culture has left its mark on the Czechs, despite the aftermath of WWII. thecolorpurple posted:I know this thread makes a big deal out of France's cultural assimilation policies, but speaking as someone from a family with roots in Alsace from pre-french conquest, in 1871 we had no popular desire to join Germany and throughout the Kaiserreich period Alsace-Lorraine was unique in being the only "german" territory to be administered directly from Berlin rather than federally. By 1918 there wasn't necessarily a huge desire to be reincorporated into France but there was definitely a strong undercurrent of pro-french, anti-kaiser sentiment throughout the annexation, and France did in fact give Alsace-Lorraine a few liberties that remain to this day. Cultural imperialism is bad but it was better than the Reich's actual imperialism.
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Oct 8, 2013 17:54
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Soviet Commubot posted:This other map he made corresponds a lot more closely even if it's not quite the same. This map is interesting in that 1: Skåne is independent for the first time in ever; 2: Germany is unified which has yet to be the rule rather than the norm. Poland also ate half of Prussia.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:49
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Dusseldorf posted:Is that majority Hispanic or plurality hispanic? I see Ventura county listed as 40% Hispanic. It's not that every green county is majority Hispanic, but that all those counties combined are majority Hispanic. For example, it includes Loving County, TX, which is only 22% Hispanic, but has a population of 82 and is surrounded by counties with a Hispanic majority or plurality.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Sure, but there is a major difference still: France didn't control the Netherlands throughout the 19th century. France annexed Belgium after the Austrians were defeated, and turned the Netherlands into a puppet state after the Napoleonic conquests. Anyway, Phlegmish's post referred more to Flanders anyway, which had always been in France's sphere of influence, first as a vassal of the French king, later under the Dukes of Burgundy, who actually unified the Low Countries for a brief period.
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Oct 9, 2013 08:26
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 Full list here if you can't read the map: http://kerstendirect.com/insights/articles/united-states-nonprofits
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Oct 9, 2013 08:37
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the jizz taxi posted:France annexed Belgium after the Austrians were defeated, and turned the Netherlands into a puppet state after the Napoleonic conquests. Anyway, Phlegmish's post referred more to Flanders anyway, which had always been in France's sphere of influence, first as a vassal of the French king, later under the Dukes of Burgundy, who actually unified the Low Countries for a brief period.
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Oct 9, 2013 10:22
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Oct 9, 2013 17:58
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This is a really good way of visually making a point of how few countries have adopted something. Are there any other maps done in this style?
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Oct 9, 2013 18:32
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Apparently spanking falls under corporal punishment.
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Oct 9, 2013 21:41
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computer parts posted:Apparently spanking falls under corporal punishment. Unless you've learned to spank someone spiritually or psychologically, then yes.
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Oct 9, 2013 21:49
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Jerry Cotton posted:Unless you've learned to spank someone spiritually or psychologically, then yes. We should ask Ruddha about that, I hear he has transcended the realm of the corporal. I'm sure there is some DBZ move that could count as spiritual spanking.
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Oct 10, 2013 07:32
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Where's the map that shows countries where sick burns are illegal?
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Oct 10, 2013 07:40
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That would just be a map of Bhutan.
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Oct 10, 2013 13:09
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Boiled Water posted:That would just be a map of Bhutan. Though the king of Bhutan is allowed to grow sick sideburns.
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Oct 10, 2013 14:14
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Jerry Cotton posted:Unless you've learned to spank someone spiritually or psychologically, then yes. You can most certainly spank someone psychologically, and it is still
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Oct 10, 2013 15:27
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 I saw this on tumblr. Thought-provoking.
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Oct 10, 2013 20:25
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Rincewind posted:
Not far enough.
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Oct 10, 2013 20:45
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PrinceRandom posted:I think if you convert a save from CK2 that has Sunset Invasions active, the Incas and the Aztecs are buffed up to about European levels. Yeah that's what I meant by Super Inca. The High American tech group is really powerful, and unlike the Europeans, Inca and Aztec have few threats other than each other and thus can easily colonize the rest of the Americas.
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Oct 10, 2013 23:29
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Mu Cow posted:
Is AFA in Mississippi the American Family Association? SPLC (just next door on the map) designated them a hate group due to their constant harassment of local gays and hate filled radio stations. For more information on this, watch "Small Town Gay Bar" a really sad but heartfelt documentary about a small town gay bar in Shannon, MS. It's on Netflix.
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Oct 11, 2013 00:52
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Haha, my home state is all about robots. And my high school was pretty big on the FIRST scene, if I recall.
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Oct 11, 2013 02:01
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big business sloth posted:Haha, my home state is all about robots. And my high school was pretty big on the FIRST scene, if I recall. what school? one of my co-workers is heavily involved with a team that has been rather successful the past few years.
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Oct 11, 2013 02:07
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oldswitcheroo posted:Is AFA in Mississippi the American Family Association? SPLC (just next door on the map) designated them a hate group due to their constant harassment of local gays and hate filled radio stations. For more information on this, watch "Small Town Gay Bar" a really sad but heartfelt documentary about a small town gay bar in Shannon, MS. It's on Netflix. Yes it is. That's rather interesting...
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Oct 11, 2013 12:42
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oldswitcheroo posted:Is AFA in Mississippi the American Family Association? SPLC (just next door on the map) designated them a hate group due to their constant harassment of local gays and hate filled radio stations. For more information on this, watch "Small Town Gay Bar" a really sad but heartfelt documentary about a small town gay bar in Shannon, MS. It's on Netflix. It sure is. One of the headlines on their website is "Christian Deaths around the world and Obama's silence". You can feel the  before you even look at their stance on things.
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Oct 11, 2013 13:16
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Captain Foo posted:what school? one of my co-workers is heavily involved with a team that has been rather successful the past few years. Pembroke.
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Oct 11, 2013 22:38
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big business sloth posted:Pembroke. ah. not the same then (Gilford)
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Oct 12, 2013 01:51
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Oct 12, 2013 17:01
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Technically Swedish isn't a foreign language in Finland, though.
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Oct 12, 2013 18:14
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Yeah, also that map has no idea how to handle Switzerland and Belgium, apparently.
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Oct 12, 2013 18:33
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Why is Spanish so high in Sweden and Norway, its not like they have any extra links to Iberia than main land Europe?
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Oct 12, 2013 18:45
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