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Thematically, this is the part where the protagonist overcomes his doubt and fear to take action and save the day at the last second. Karkat, it's time. Do the Bloody Thing. If you sit back and let Terezi die here, you stop being best troll forever and I'll be hella disappointed in you.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:14
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Jesus Christ, Hussie. That's just wrong. There are supposed to be thumbtacks.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:20
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You may hate him but you got to admit, that was a pretty great backbreaker.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:29
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Ingenium posted:You may hate him but you got to admit, that was a pretty great backbreaker. I hope that's his super attack in the inevitable Homestuck fighting game  I just remembered that, as bad as this is, Trolls can receive an insane amount of punishment, the higher blood tiers even more. Not that it excuses Gamzee (awful) but assuming someone manages to Save Terezi like Dave saved the mayor she should live through it. Unless we learn of yet another way to become god tier: receive a juggalo suplex.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:50
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Thundarr posted:Thematically, this is the part where the protagonist overcomes his doubt and fear to take action and save the day at the last second. Karkat, it's time. Do the Bloody Thing. If you sit back and let Terezi die here, you stop being best troll forever and I'll be hella disappointed in you. Let me reach back into the past for the plethora of occasions where a troll has risen to the challenge and overcome their flaws to achieve a cathartic success. Karkat saving Terezi might make her a bit too much of a damsel in distress, but then again nobody saving Terezi makes her his tragic dead girlfriend. This'd be a really good time for Rose to fly in and catch her just to prove she's not completely useless these days, or maybe Jake to catch her to show all that crazy healing and power-upping wasn't for nothing. Or maybe the artifacts are a harbinger of John's arrival to blow on the cartridge and he can save the day. Terrible as this all this, John's retcon powers do give a pretty solid out even if Aranea murders Jane. I wonder, though, if he used those powers, how far back would he go? Having John make it so that Aranea doesn't get the ring would change rather a lot of the story at this point, it's hard to say all this would've been worth our time if it gets negated. So long as he's still out there and still able to change everything, though, that does detract from the tension a bit. Also, does anyone find this "Terezi, no" bit with Karkat a bit weird? Even with the artifacts obfusticating everything and the silliness of a double-atomic juggalo suplex, it's sort of on the angsty side. Like, I'd expect it from melodramatic fanart of this scene but lately the "nooooooooo!"s have been a lot sillier, like when John saw Karkat get forked or when Jade pushed WV toward the lava. Maybe Hussie thought it was time to do one seriously without drawing scribble-Karkat.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:50
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There's absolutely zero chance of Terezi dying permanently here and I sincerely doubt she'll even die temporarily. I mean c'mon Vriska bled at least ten times as much as she has before finally kicking it, she'll be fine.
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Oct 11, 2013 15:55
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Did Jake actually have time to get healed, or did Jane fork him before Aranea could finish what she was doing?
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Oct 11, 2013 16:01
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I'm really not sure what the hell is up with Jake right now. I'm not sure if Jake is sure what is up with Jake right now. Dude has been abused quite a bit on multiple levels, then some alien chick shows up and abuses him some more and turns him into a giant loving flashlight of angels and dreams and then that starts to die down and he gets forked and now he's woken back up and some other aliens are fighting and he's in the middle of a pool of goddamn lava.
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Oct 11, 2013 16:03
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Dolash posted:Let me reach back into the past for the plethora of occasions where a troll has risen to the challenge and overcome their flaws to achieve a cathartic success. Ok fine, it's what would happen in a typical narrative. In Homestuck who the gently caress knows. The melodramatic Karkat closeup is pretty ripe for an emotional outburst in the next panel though. And Karkat is seriously due for one of those.
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Oct 11, 2013 16:15
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WhiffleballDude posted:There's absolutely zero chance of Terezi dying permanently here and I sincerely doubt she'll even die temporarily. Normally I'd agree if not for her imminent dip in the
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Oct 11, 2013 16:18
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Yeah, I didn't think Terezi was going to actually die before that SBAHJ was reposted. It's pretty much confirmed now. Karkat's actually-not-silly reaction seems to indicate the same. 
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Oct 11, 2013 16:31
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drat it, Rose, get your head in the game. Blackrom or not, this is clearly not the time for anyone to be kicking the poo poo out of each other.
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Oct 11, 2013 17:09
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Does Rose even have wands anymore? I'm not sure what people are expecting her to accomplish against the murder clown if all she's armed with is pithy remarks and wikipedia psychoanalysis.
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Oct 11, 2013 17:23
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Seoinin posted:Does Rose even have wands anymore? I'm not sure what people are expecting her to accomplish against the murder clown if all she's armed with is pithy remarks and wikipedia psychoanalysis. Well, there's the fly and catch Terezi bit at the very least. Either way, those three years were even worse than I thought, she's taking pauses to think things out instead of having a stream of ideas and plan details going through her head. Total loss of confidence. And I kind of already knew this, but it's really disheartening to constantly see it come up now.
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Oct 11, 2013 17:26
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Fat_Cow posted:You see THIS is when Karkat does the bloody thing and we find out it's some overpowered bullshit that saves Terezi and kills Gamzee. You know that thing where, no matter how old you are, your close relatives can badger you into doing something, because they know you so well and know exactly the right buttons to push? That's the blood power. Weaponized guilt.
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Oct 11, 2013 17:27
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drat this update was brutal  Don't really see where the Jake hate is coming from though. If you saw this poo poo going on without any sort of context, you wouldn't know what the gently caress either.
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Oct 11, 2013 17:56
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Ammat The Ankh posted:drat this update was brutal Yeah, especially coming out of what was just happening to him he's probably completely out of sorts. I would barely even expect him to be conscious.
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Oct 11, 2013 18:06
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drat, good catch. Obviously the bus that smells like daffodils is Jake's speedo. E: whoops, meant to edit my old post. Thanks Yoshimitsu for saving me from double posting. You really are Heroic.
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Oct 11, 2013 18:07
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Seoinin posted:Does Rose even have wands anymore? I'm not sure what people are expecting her to accomplish against the murder clown if all she's armed with is pithy remarks and wikipedia psychoanalysis. That's about what I was thinking too. She could probably use Seer powers to figure out a rescue plan, but who knows what kind of time or concentration that takes. Gamzee is probably the most powerful non-god tier player there is, and if Rose dies trying to save Terezi, that should count as heroic. I feel like Kanaya is the most likely one to actually do something right now, unless somebody tells Jake to help.
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Oct 11, 2013 18:11
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Ammat The Ankh posted:drat, good catch. Obviously the bus that smells like daffodils is Jake's speedo. You might say there's pretty much no way she's not getting offed. E: quote:AG: May8e I should thank her whenever she falls asleep? Or dies, god for8id. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 18:11
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Hussie, that's not a backbreaker. That's a (really) rolling German suplex. 
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Oct 11, 2013 18:39
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That was difficult to read, and I appreciate that fact. A very effective cliffhanger. How do you make the audience genuinely worried if this is it for a character? By preceding it with a savage beating while onlookers do nothing, to establish that you're more than hard enough to go through with it. If Jake wants to be a Hero of Hope, now would be a good time for him to act. I don't think anyone else can save Terezi from lava at this point. A movie buff like him might know that clowns are always bad news. Jane might have saved her from Gamzee by forcing Aranea to mind-control him again in self-defense, but she's got no reason to do anything about the lava. When Dave gets back, this might be what makes him decide to time travel again. And of course there's the omnipresent possibility of John undoing things, but that seems like the least thematically resonant option. Say Terezi does die here, though. (If that happens, she'll probably end up chilling with Jade and Calliope.) It will have immediately followed a pretty significant development: she, of all people, couldn't tell that Gamzee was being mind-controlled and then that he was lying to her to make her drop her guard. That would be a suitably tragic downfall for the Seer of Mind. And it makes a certain point about the nature of an abusive relationship: he wore her down so far that she stopped being who she is. This being Homestuck it's possible for all of those things to happen, of course.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:05
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Thundarr posted:Ok fine, it's what would happen in a typical narrative. In Homestuck who the gently caress knows. The melodramatic Karkat closeup is pretty ripe for an emotional outburst in the next panel though. And Karkat is seriously due for one of those. At somepoint Hussie became completely unable to invoke unironic gravitas in the story. Like at the start some pretty serious poo poo used to happen complete with epic music. Now? Every time something gets close to seriousness something bizarre happens. Like one day he thought that people were taking it too seriously and now is unable to take it serious himself. Compared to a lot of people i'm still pretty much enjoying homestuck but if I had one complaint it was the permanent tone shift once Caliborn was introduced. But maybe that was the point? He did kill the author of the story after all.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:07
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Don't really see where the Jake hate is coming from though. If you saw this poo poo going on without any sort of context, you wouldn't know what the gently caress either. If you see a really strong and scary and wholly insane guy beating the poo poo out of a defenseless woman in a brutal and violent way, is your instinct to sit back and think 'hmm, i dont know the facts here so i'm just gonna watch and see how it plays out' or is it 'holy poo poo that person needs help, i either need to help her out or find someone who can.' All the jake hate is stemming from the people who know that the first outcome is not acceptable under any circumstances whatsoever.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:12
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Well ostensibly Jake got his brain problems healed so if he was going to demonstrate the ability to problem-solve his way out of a damp paper bag, now would be the time. oh who am I kidding hes going to stand there like a putz because golly rogers, parsing stimuli is a real doozy of a humdinger. e. Terezi's gonna be real hosed up even if she doesn't take a lava bath. We haven't seen a beating like that since roboAradia took Vriska to the mat. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 19:17
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Rooreelooo posted:If you see a really strong and scary and wholly insane guy beating the poo poo out of a defenseless woman in a brutal and violent way, is your instinct to sit back and think 'hmm, i dont know the facts here so i'm just gonna watch and see how it plays out' or is it 'holy poo poo that person needs help, i either need to help her out or find someone who can.' I don't think it's so much wanting to see how it plays out so much as it's not having the bravery to get directly involved himself. This isn't a situation like real life where you can just phone the police if you see a crime. Jake's whole deal is that he really can't deal with adventure, danger and, basically, reality. It would obviously be better if he was brave enough to get involved, but I'd guess it's fear rather than disinterest that's stopping him.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:18
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The thing about Jake is that he's basically furniture. He stands around and does nothing, someone uses him for something, and then he's right back to his immobile trance. At this rate Karkat is gonna confuse him for a chair and sit backways on him.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:22
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Rooreelooo posted:If you see a really strong and scary and wholly insane guy beating the poo poo out of a defenseless woman in a brutal and violent way, is your instinct to sit back and think 'hmm, i dont know the facts here so i'm just gonna watch and see how it plays out' or is it 'holy poo poo that person needs help, i either need to help her out or find someone who can.' But that's not really what's happening here. All Jake sees is the clown he knows (and who provided him with his best buddy Erisolsprite) all bloodied up and fighting another troll that Jake doesn't know and may not even know is a girl. Hell, for all Jake knows Terezi could very well be Sea Hitler herself. Plus add in the fact that dude's likely discombobulated as gently caress and its no wonder Jake has no idea what to do. You can't really apply a simplistic real-world scenario to this.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:24
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Rooreelooo posted:If you see a really strong and scary and wholly insane guy beating the poo poo out of a defenseless woman in a brutal and violent way, is your instinct to sit back and think 'hmm, i dont know the facts here so i'm just gonna watch and see how it plays out' or is it 'holy poo poo that person needs help, i either need to help her out or find someone who can.' If you're trying to draw an emotional reaction from people about world where a kid or teen can even survive a "juggalo suplex", you're probably not going to win that battle.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:27
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The difference between Grandpa and Jake, I think, is simply a matter of choice. Jake never made the choice to life on Hell Murder Island, that's just where he ended up. And he didn't have anyone to watch over him after Grandma died, either, so he was just this kid alone on an island filled with monsters, possibly already with brain issues, and with nothing but his ruined home and lovely movies. He was never awake on Prospit like Jade so he didn't know what the gently caress was going on, and it also meant that he had zero people to interact with, unlike with Jade and Bec. Dude has every right in the world to be afraid and confused and that's BEFORE you get into the further issues brought on by Dirk. Then he gets turned into a Trickster God and then he gets a hang over and thinks he's the worst scum ever and then he gets blown up and becomes an actual God and then he gets assaulted by some one he considered a friend, mentally and sexually with the promise of rape to come. And on it goes. Grandpa, on the flip side, made a choice to seek adventure. He had a purpose in his life, and that allowed him to grow up and fulfill his potential. Jake is just some dumb kid who had a lovely life and got killed then came back and has no idea what the gently caress is going on. I'm not even sure he's aware exactly of what IS going on.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:27
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Jake must know he's a coward by now, so it would be redundant for him to do nothing for that reason. What could his inaction teach him that he hasn't already learned? On the other hand, if he acts now, it'll make him the first of his generation to overcome his basic flaw. There's something interesting about the fact that in this whole big fight, the B1 kids have been incapacitated while the B2 kids have been indecisive, despite their respective backgrounds suggesting it'd be otherwise.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:28
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Dorroile posted:The thing about Jake is that he's basically furniture. He stands around and does nothing, someone uses him for something, and then he's right back to his immobile trance. Well, that's more or less a good way to sum up their group. Jane can't be assed to do anything unless it all goes exactly her way, Roxy constantly freaks out about breaking something or just won't make the necessary push, and Jake is, well, Jake. Dirk's the only one consistently jumping into action, but he lacks the communication skills to get the other teens moving. Meanwhile, while the other four had their problems, they weren't ever afraid to jump into a problem (except Dave at times, but the others usually push him along regardless and even then, he knew there were certain times he had to get poo poo done). There's a reason the four kids are the main characters, it's a matter of them roping everyone else in and making the proper push.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:29
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I'm fairly certain Rose just standing uselessly by the side humming and hawing over "What if this is just normal blackrom stuff?" is Hussie's indictment of that group of Tumblrers who readily justify even real world brutality like this with "It's their culture, who are we to criticize it?" I fully expect Karkat to give Rose the chewing out of her life when it's over.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:31
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When was the last time someone really died for real (ghost person who didnt come back)? Trollpocalypse?
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Oct 11, 2013 19:36
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^^^ Vriska hasn't come back  ^^^Regarde Aduck posted:At somepoint Hussie became completely unable to invoke unironic gravitas in the story. Like at the start some pretty serious poo poo used to happen complete with epic music. Now? Every time something gets close to seriousness something bizarre happens. Like one day he thought that people were taking it too seriously and now is unable to take it serious himself. Compared to a lot of people i'm still pretty much enjoying homestuck but if I had one complaint it was the permanent tone shift once Caliborn was introduced. But maybe that was the point? He did kill the author of the story after all. What? pretty much every "serious" and dark moment has ben somehow paired with an extremely silly element. Way, way before Caliborn or even Lord English appeared. Like Equius' death or John and Rose's parents being murdered followed by a silly trophy binge.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:39
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Blackheart posted:^^^ Vriska hasn't come back Or spectral Nic Cage. Or Feferi landing on the horn pile.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:43
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Angry Walrus posted:I'm fairly certain Rose just standing uselessly by the side humming and hawing over "What if this is just normal blackrom stuff?" is Hussie's indictment of that group of Tumblrers who readily justify even real world brutality like this with "It's their culture, who are we to criticize it?" I fully expect Karkat to give Rose the chewing out of her life when it's over. Or maybe the opposite. Despite everyone freaking out over this update, it'll turn out that this whole thing was just a normal troll courtship ritual. Karkat was actually shocked and moved to tears by how perfect a display of blackrom flirting this is. Just like in his romcoms! KoB posted:When was the last time someone really died for real (ghost person who didnt come back)? Trollpocalypse? Alpha Universe John/Rose/Dave/Jade, if you count them.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:43
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Or maybe the opposite. Despite everyone freaking out over this update, it'll turn out that this whole thing was just a normal troll courtship ritual. Karkat was actually shocked and moved to tears by how perfect a display of blackrom flirting this is. Just like in his romcoms! Last relevant people to die were all of the exiles that weren't WV and PM, I think.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:46
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Rose's Mom, John's Dad, Dave's Bro, and Jane's Grandpa died as well if you're counting the Alpha guardians. Technically John's Dad came back in the form of Jane's Dad. Maybe.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:47
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Seoinin posted:Or spectral Nic Cage. Or Feferi landing on the horn pile. And all of these are very basic examples, I mean we still could go on and point out that the main villain pre-cascade was, part dog/clown/eldritch cat princess/stabbed crow, or that the guy behind the murder spree was a previously harmless stoner juggalo.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:53
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