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Cake Attack posted:Oh boy, we're finally at the point where things start getting weird. The real Umineko starts here.  I've been waiting for this point ever since the LP first started. Can't wait to see the speculation from those who haven't played the games.
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Oct 3, 2013 05:45
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What's there to speculate about. Beatrice summoned Asmodeus and Satan (who're actually teenage girls) to kill Kanon and Jessica after Kanon used his laser blade to kill a goat man. Seems pretty clear cut.
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Oct 3, 2013 05:50
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I just can't get enough of ahaha.wav. As much fun as EP1's conventional mystery is, this is pretty much where the series starts. Well, this and the next update.
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Oct 3, 2013 09:08
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Yep, this was the point where I said "gently caress it". Interdimensional witches having tea beyond time and space? Sure why not. Witches murdering people with magic stakes that are actually Moé versions of the seven demons of hell? Ok. Gold butterflies murdering people? Sounds cool. Demon goatheaded buttlers as random goons? Brilliant! But Kanon can summon an actual lightsaber and he has ninja powers? That's just too much! I'm with Battler from now on, this is bullshit and fake! The funny thing I realised about the little-girl demons is that while they seem to be your common  fanservice for kicks, but later on it will make perfect sense in context.As for the goats, the biggest problem is that their new sprites are huge, and when there are multiple people on screen they are hidden behind them pretty much all the time. You can even see this in on of the screenshots. Otherwise they are definietly more threathening than that old version. Speaking of old vs new sprites, I still like these new Beatrice troll faces!
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Oct 3, 2013 11:32
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Bholder posted:The funny thing I realised about the little-girl demons is that while they seem to be your common You say that as if a justification for why they exist makes them stop being creepy fanservice.
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Oct 3, 2013 14:40
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HMS Boromir posted:You say that as if a justification for why they exist makes them stop being creepy fanservice. More like in hindsight I thought it was genius. It is still fanservice, but genius fanservice.
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Oct 3, 2013 15:14
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I lost my patience with the pace when I heard that it was 80 pages until Battler appeared, but it's been ages, so I decided to try and catch up. This is a real gem: "Jessica put her brass knuckles in her pocket before Kanon opened his eyes." Beatrice can walk around openly and be seen? Huh? The really odd thing is that she's wearing Jessica's outfit. And her portrait changed to have blonder hair.  Interesting "moves" by Beatrice. You can't prove that there WASN'T a 19th person, so fine, let's say there was and everyone knows it, and the bodies are recognizable now. Still, this first scenario is pretty easy. It's not obvious how the 6 died, so it could have been poison, lots of time to pose the bodies. The key in the sealed envelope is also easy. How did Rose get the key for the chapel? She went into Maria's bag while she was sleeping and got the envelope. Someone could easily have locked the chapel after staging the scene, put the key into another envelope and switched it for the one Maria had. The Kanon and Jessica death scene was... strange. It amused me to see Kanon bring out a laser blade, but it sort-of made sense in a way, if she's going to just go outright using obvious cheaty magic, then two can play at that game.
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Oct 3, 2013 18:22
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Dr Pepper posted:Man the old goats were so much better. AfroSquirrel posted:MuscleGoats, I don't think I'll ever get used to you. Something in that design just bugs me. I dunno, I think I'm with Shiny here, I think the new goats look a lot better. They look more like they're described. quote:Oh, yeah, the Stakes? Not just named for the demons. They are the demons! Beatrice's got the Prince of Darkness and his six greatest leiutenants at her beck and call. Or, her greatest leiutenants, rather. They're all cute girls here, because of course they are, that's how Japan rolls. That's lieutenants, I think.
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Oct 4, 2013 00:54
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So, is there anything special planned for this LP for tomorrow?
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Oct 4, 2013 01:02
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No Beatrice, I haven't heard the story about the man who digs graves for furniture. 
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Oct 4, 2013 01:17
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As is typical of the PS3 sprites, the originals were better. The goats are gentlemen butlers, not brutish oafs! Then again visuals in Seacats are more or less irrelevant, all that really matters is the audio... which the PS3 ports still kind of mess up because the OP songs are far worse than the originals but oh well.
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Oct 4, 2013 02:28
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Rodyle posted:The goats are gentlemen butlers, not brutish oafs!
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Oct 4, 2013 02:45
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Meirlkor posted:That's lieutenants, I think. Fixed. AfroSquirrel posted:So, is there anything special planned for this LP for tomorrow? Probably not tomorrow, but can probably get another out Saturday without too much trouble. And possibly another somewhere between that and the 12th if my workload stays relatively light. Can't guarantee I'll manage to hit both, but it's what I'll be trying for.
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Oct 4, 2013 03:09
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Bholder posted:That's not how they acted here though... Boxing Goat was a gentleman and a caring brother...
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Oct 4, 2013 04:34
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Still, this first scenario is pretty easy. It's not obvious how the 6 died, so it could have been poison, lots of time to pose the bodies. The key in the sealed envelope is also easy. How did Rose get the key for the chapel? She went into Maria's bag while she was sleeping and got the envelope. Someone could easily have locked the chapel after staging the scene, put the key into another envelope and switched it for the one Maria had. Yep, this scenario has a number of holes the first didn't; there's a lot of wiggle room for Battler to argue that there might not have been earlier. Considering he just has to present any single non-magical possibility to deny the witch, this should be a cinch. Gotta love laser-blade Kanon. To be fair, he's been telling us he isn't human this entire time, really WE'RE the dumb ones for not anticipating it.
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Oct 4, 2013 05:25
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Shinji117 posted:spoilers Don't ruin the surprise, drat it!
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Oct 10, 2013 06:28
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 So why didn't he take that out earlier and go for the hatchet instead??I keep forgetting the whole point of this exercise is to prove to Beatrice that witches don't exist, and the death of the original 6 is pretty easy to do that with. Depending on the details of how Kanon and Jessica died, their deaths could be easily done by non-magical means, since I don't think anything with Beatrice in it is trustworthy.
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Oct 10, 2013 07:14
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Autumncomet posted:
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Oct 10, 2013 08:50
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Well, people pointed out back then that we never heard the hatchet falling to the ground, nor did Battler found one at his corpse. So the answer must be that the "hatchet" was his laser sword all along  (that doesn't explain how he got beat up so fast though...)
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Oct 10, 2013 11:25
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Last time Beatrice didn't bother playing around, she just went straight to the point and staked him, this time she summoned that Goat and wasted time letting Kanon flail around before murdering him.
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Oct 10, 2013 16:10
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Autumncomet posted:
We'll have to see the crime scene, but I agree. Anything we just saw in that magical murder scene was not witnessed by Battler - therefore, it may as well didn't happen as far as he was concerned - so as far as we're concerned, it also didn't happen. One killer could easily have stabbed Jessica in the back with a stake, then into Kanon's front as he was reacting from surprise.
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Oct 10, 2013 17:41
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Some day it will sink in that naming specific days is the surest possible way to jinx myself if the update isn't basically one final round of editing away from going up. Part Thirty-Six: No [Color]   : "...Yes." : "..."Even though Kinzo had heard of the six deaths, his emotions did not waver. The expression on his face as he gazed out the window, ...was a smile, as though his opponent in a chess game had just made a spectacular move. ...It was unimaginable that this expression could appear on a father who had lost many children at once. : "...Under Rosa-sama's orders, Gohda and Kanon are calling the police. After that, she ordered us to follow your orders, Master...What shall we do?" : "...This island has already been cut off from the real world. Phones and the like will be useless.": "Should I have them stop?": "...Until the roulette is finished, what they do to pass the time is up to them. Let them do as they like.": "...Yes.": "...Umm...is there anything I should tell Rosa-sama?" No, it's the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. If you're going to reference Hitchhiker's, get it right, Kinzo.  Shannon cowered in fright at this sudden rage. ...Genji made a gesture as though telling her not to say too much. Shannon couldn't help but regret saying too much...  : "However. ...You are also free to do as you wish. ...Genji. And Shannon. You have done well serving me until today.": "Y, ...your words are too good for me...but, umm...": "...We are furniture who have sworn to serve the Master. ...No matter what the time, we will be waiting by your side. ...Until the very end."  : "Huh...y, ...yes...!"Nanjo often recommended that Kinzo write a will because of his health, but each time, Kinzo had gone mad with rage. ...Since that time, you would think that 'will' would have been the word Kinzo took most exception at. Because that word had come out of his own mouth, Shannon couldn't help doubting her ears for an instant. Shannon hurriedly prepared the side table and some writing paper. Genji also began preparing the usual green, evil drink, just as he was ordered... : "I am ready." Protip to future readers of Kinzo's memoire: Most of his thoughts were some combination of “gently caress my worthless family,” “BEATRIIIIIIIICE!” and “Genji! More absinthe!” For a while, Kinzo considered where he should start speaking from, strutting all over the room with his hands behind his back... : "Master. ...Here.": "Hmm. Thank you, my friend. ...Well then. If I am to speak of my life, I must begin writing from when I met that witch. ...Shannon, copy this. ...My meeting with Beatrice took place a long way back. What year of the Showa era was it...? ...I think, after the war..."  It would be a lie to say we weren't still bitter. ...Even now, if we gave in just a little, we'd feel like going on a rampage like Jessica, protesting with some kind of violence. According to what Gohda-san said after he got back, right now, Kanon-kun was looking after Jessica. ...Apparently, she was still very emotionally high-strung.  : "...I see. Thank you. ...Maybe a young kid would be better at understanding a young kid's feelings. ...It would probably be better if we left them alone for now." : "Rosa-san...There is nothing more I can accomplish by remaining here. ...The phones may not be working, but tomorrow, the boat will come, and we should probably be able to reach the police. We should leave this place as it is for the police's investigation." : "...I agree with Doctor Nanjo. ...If you stay in a place like this for too long, it is bad for your health. ...Let us return and make some black tea..."  : "You're right. ...Battler-kun, ...are you alright...?" : "...Yeah. ...I've cried all I can. ...I'm fine now."The police would surely find some evidence from a thorough investigation. ...But we hadn't been adult enough to wait for that. ...I had investigated the chapel in my own way, trying to grab the culprit before the police got here. ...And all I figured out, ...it was frustrating, but I got nothing. ...I hadn't been able to find a single hint.  : "Come on, ...let's go out. ...Maria, we're going. ...Don't keep staring at it...!" : "...Uu-." : "Come, come, Maria-sama. Let us return... It is cold here." Pretty sure they didn't expect their kid to be a creepy chair fetishist, so you're not off to the best start there, George. : "...Dad, Kyrie-san."Just looking at their faces, ...it looked like they were sleeping, ...but it was too bitter...  : "...At least you were allowed to rest in a cool place like this. ...I'll definitely get who did this... Definitely..."  : "When we first found this, it was like this. ...It was probably drawn by the culprit..." : "...The culprit was a witch, so this is a magic circle to summon a demon or something...?" : "Kihihihihihihihihihihi... This is the seventh magic circle of the sun. Don't you even know that...? Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi. Ouch.": "Hey!! Don't I always tell you not to make that creepy laugh!!" : "Maria, go on. ...What does it mean?": "It's a magic circle to escape from physical or mental bonds. ...And the part written around the circumference says, 'The Lord has freed me from my chains. I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call on the name of the Lord', in Hebrew." : "...And there's some English written. ...'HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR, ...MARIA'. ...I see. And the key to open this door was handed over to Maria, ...is that what this is?": "...But this is the chapel. Maybe Maria doesn't mean Maria-chan, but the Virgin Mary. ...In that case, you could read this as a blasphemy against God, in the name of Halloween. They say that witches who make contracts with demons swear to always defile God's name. ...In that sense, this really is a witch-like crime."It could be both. She's already double-dipping her sacrifices, why not tack on a third angle? : "...You sure know a lot. ...Did you hear that from Maria?": "...Yeah, something like that."    : "...That is true. In doing something that elaborate, there would be an extremely high chance that when the police came, some disadvantageous evidence would be found. ...There is no way the culprit failed to notice that. ...Then, why did the culprit go to all the effort of doing this, is the question we face...": "In that case, there's one question that comes out of this place. ...What meaning did this place, where we found the six corpses, have?": "...This chapel, ...was important to Father. ...Since I was a kid, I was strictly told not to enter it." : "Uu-. ...Maria also came here once, got in lots of trouble... Uu-...": "An important chapel...? ...Does it have some relationship to the Ushiromiya head family...?": "I don't know. ...Father viewed this chapel as very sacred, and he treasured it so much that he had it redecorated several times. ...But as everyone knows, Father wasn't a devout believer, so much so that he loved black magic. ...I've never heard of him coming here to offer his prayers to God.": "...As far as I know, the Master has never come here. We even call this the 'forbidden chapel', ...umm, I thought it was eerie, like a haunted house." : "And even so, it's called the 'forbidden chapel'...Ihihi! It may be indiscreet, but doesn't it have an interesting ring to it? Doctor Nanjo, you're an old friend of Grandfather's, right? Have you heard anything about that?": "...I have heard about it long ago, but I forgot what he said to evade the issue. ...That's right, didn't he say something like...someday, he too might be able to receive a blessing there. But unless a miracle occurred, that day would never come." : "What does that mean? ...What would he do in the chapel? He couldn't mean his own funeral, right?": "I wouldn't believe that of Kinzo-san. ...He was a man much more focused on the living now rather than things after death. ...However, it does seems that this was the root of all the complexity in the inheritance problem.": "Then what would he do in the chapel? ...Pray? Aren't confessions done in the chapel? ...Anyways, it sounds suspicious." : "...I don't know why, ...but just as Doctor Nanjo said, in Grandfather's eyes, ...it seems that since this chapel was constructed, it was decided by fate that he wouldn't receive a blessing unless a miracle occurred.": "How do you know that...?": "See, ...it's clearly written over there. ...Look, over there." : "...My English sucks. ...What is it...? ...'This door is, opened, only at, probability of'?? Sorry, my English sucks."I gave up after I was unable to finish reading the first of the two lines. ...It looked like the others could read it properly.  ”You will be blessed only at a probability of a quadrillion to one.”  : "What is it, what is it, can everyone read it? Someone tell me what it means too.": "Kihihihihihihi. ...At least learn English. How did you get into high school without even being able to read this much? Kihihihihihihihihihi, ouch. Ouchouchouch.": "Mind your own business. So, what's written there?": "...It means something like this. 'This door is opened only when a miracle occurs. You will be blessed only when a miracle occurs'." : "Ni-ce job, you can shut up now. Rosa-san, will you let me take Maria with me to English class? Looks like it's useless to try and learn English unless you start when you're young after all."Battler, dude. Stop it. Rosa's still alive this time, having two people to go upside Maria's head when she's being creepy is just redundant. : "...The forbidden chapel. ...Whether or not the witch Beatrice really was a witch, it is whispered that she actually existed several decades ago, ...and was Grandfather's mistress.": "This is, umm, just my imagination, but...perhaps the Master really did truly love Beatrice-sama. However, he was already married, so they couldn't be united.": "...I see. ...If Beatrice was dead, and could be revived with the magic of a miracle, now that Grandmother is dead, he could marry her with his head held high. And if they married in this chapel, ...could it be a fairy-tale story like that?" Perhaps part of his decades of research has actually been planning his dream wedding. Guessing the plans would look something like...  I never thought I'd find myself wishing I had crayons on hand again. Alas, I had to make do with MSPaint. : "...By the time he built this chapel, Grandfather probably knew that he would never use it as a church as long as he lived. ...But, he prayed for the witch to be revived by some miracle. And he thought that if that miracle occurred, they could be married here...": "...I see. ...If you think of it that way, this would be a place of utmost significance to Beatrice-sama as well... And he knew it was a chapel never to be opened. ...A story of sad love."Even though Gohda-san's body was even bigger than mine, his words were touching. ...Everyone was silent, but it seemed that they agreed with that view. : "Even though he knew it was a chapel not to be opened, ...he still probably dreamed of the day that a miracle would occur. ...Kinzo-san was very romantic in his younger days. I feel as though I understand him.": "Ihihi. I wonder. ...But you all came in four times a year to clean it, right? What do you mean, forbidden? Didn't we just go in ourselves? That wasn't a miracle or anything. We brought the key, clunk, and we're in. That's all that happened, this is ridiculous." I'd thought I had just been messing around because I hadn't liked the atmosphere of that story. ...But then Rosa oba-san suddenly jumped on me, with a really serious face. Rosa oba-san's face grew increasingly pale. ...She looked at the magic circle on the door, then at her hand, back and forth, back and forth.   : "...Huh? ...": "...Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi. ...It took everyone too long to figure it out. Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi..."...When a kid pulls a prank, it sometimes goes unnoticed by the adults, and the kid who did it loses heart. ...If one of those pranks catches someone later on, it makes that kid really happy. ...Maria's celebration just now looked a lot like that... : "...Y, ...yeah, yes. There was only one of those keys. It's the key to the Master's treasured chapel, so there is only one, with no duplicates. ...It is normally kept safe in the key box in the servants' room, but..." : "Wh, what could this be...? I don't have a clue what you're talking about...": "Me too. ...Would you explain it for us...?"...Gohda and Nanjo's failure to understand definitely wasn't because they were stupid. ...They didn't know. ...They didn't know how long the only key to the chapel had been in Maria's hand.  : "There's no mistake! It was closed!! I opened it!! Definitely!!"Rosa oba-san kept closing the door, locking it, pulling on it to check the lock, and opening it again. Her face was becoming pale again... : "Until I took the key out of Maria's envelope and opened this door, it was definitely locked!! But this key was in the envelope and in Maria's care, right?! And that happened yesterday before noon?!?!" : "It is. ...Maria received a unique key from a woman calling herself a witch midday yesterday. In other words, from midday yesterday until this morning, when Rosa-san unlocked the door, this chapel was a closed room. ...How did they get those six people in here, and then how did they kill them?!" We had been confused by the deaths of six people. We'd thought that we had figured something out after seeing that weird magic circle and hearing the history of the chapel. ...That had all been a worthless problem! From midday yesterday until this morning, this chapel was a closed room. But our parents had been with us until last night. How had the culprit opened this door?! And how had they closed it?! Simplicity itself! They smashed it down, cleaned up, and rebuilt it, obviously. Beatrice is also a world-champion in speed carpentry.    : "If you tell me to show you how I open locks with my power, then I can show you. ...But that will not make you surrender. This 'explanation with humans' you talk about! The time that theory is exhausted will be the time of my victory!! Come now, how will you destroy it? If it was a human, what trick could they have used to defeat it, hmm~?" : "It's just like the closed rooms last time. ...Not enough information!! It's impossible to reason like this! Any excuse could be made, any trick could work!! Guessing is useless!" : "Ha! That again? There's no proof so you'll wait and see? The information is uncertain so it's impossible to reason...? Ha, this is always the excuse you humans use when you stop thinking. What is this pretense, you lowly human?!" : "The more information you're given, the more it will pain you! It will only cause the strength of the compressor squeezing you to increase! *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*!!": "Oh, in that case, let me say this. It's impossible to verify that this is a closed room in the first place!! If we're talking about demons, let me say this. ...It's possible to prove that this isn't a closed room. Just showing that someone can go in or out like this is enough!"  : "So, after you stop thinking with a lack of information as an excuse, this is what comes next. ...Oh well. If that is your move, then I will accept it. Continue.": "First off, it looks like you're trying to say that the chapel is a closed room. ...Just a short while ago, I really did spend some time looking around in there, and I couldn't find any way in or out except for the door.” : "If there was a 'hidden door' or something that I wasn't able to find, your premise is completely blown away!! In other words, whether I was able to find a hidden door or not, you can never deny that there was some method X by which the closed room could be entered!" : "...Hohoh, so you use that reasoning. *cackle*cackle*, how naive. An expected move. Let me make my move in response. ...I always thought the idea of 'closed rooms' in worthless human detective novels was ridiculous. Why? Because they're used the wrong way. ...When a closed room appears in a detective novel, do you really think that is a closed room? You don't, do you?! : “In other words, there hasn't been a completed one in the century's worth of closed room murders which humans have piled up!!": "Oooh!! Don't say that, mystery fans are pretty scary! Christie is probably grinding her teeth in her grave!": "Fu!! But I am different. I have given birth to a true closed room! And I can demonstrate that. Why? Because I am a witch!! For the Devil's Proof, all you had to do was bring someone a demon to prove it, right? Well that's convenient, as a witch, demons are my good friends, I'll bring as many as you like!!": "Sounds great!! 'Dad and the rest used a hidden door to enter the chapel, or were carried in through it'! How do you plan to beat this move?!": "With this. Regardless of whether they were living or dead, 'the six people definitely entered through the door'!!": "Huh?!?! Dumbass!! The door was locked, how'd they do it?!!" : "...Perpetual!! That's what we call an endless repetition of moves in chess. It's the same endless repetition as a discussion that won't advance because both sides deny the basis of each other's claims, like our game. ...In most games, this would be decided as a draw, but that would terribly dampen the interest of this game!! We will have no draws. You will either accept and submit to me, or deny me!!": "At least I agree with you there!! We'll settle this without fail, just as you wish!!"  : "Of course not. I will give to all of you that which you couldn't stop demanding. The reason that you incompetent fools always stop thinking in grief is a 'lack of information'! And if I then give you information about that, next you start doubting whether the information is true or not, 'denying the basis'! Isn't that convenient? That really is a clever little phrase to shelve your incompetence. I shall eliminate that convenient excuse. You should thank me, *cackle*!": "You said they entered through the door, and I said that couldn't happen. ...Are you saying that's an evasive answer?"  And the last part of the thread title finally makes its appearance. : "Wh, what is this...?! Keep explaining!": "No matter what magic move I use, you can always keep running away by repeating 'lack of information' and 'denying the basis. ...Even though I would still win in the end that way, it would be extremely boring. ...Because of that, I think I'll give you that 'information' and 'basis' that you want." : "...But that won't make a game. So I set up this rule." As Beatrice says, anything in red text is true. It is one of exactly two things so far that is guaranteed to be true. : "Are you telling me to believe that...?!": "This is a game between you and me. In a game, the rules are sacred!! Those who take that lightly are not qualified to play!!": "Alright, I got it, I'll accept that rule!! Even an elementary school kid can get into an endless argument and find fault with everything. Then let's restart right now, and continue where we left off. I'll repeat it again. 'Dad and the rest used a hidden door to enter the chapel, or were carried in through it'!" The other, as I don't recall offhand if it's been explicitly stated before, is the POV of the detective. Battler, in our case. Anything he narrates in 1st person is gospel truth. : "Stop!! I will supplement the rule." : "The reason is simple. I carried out all of the crimes with magic. So for any impossible crime, all I have to do is wave my magic staff before your eyes. But that wouldn't make a game! It would be like the barbarism of ignoring victory and defeat in a chess game and punching your opponent!" : "So shall we resume once more? Six people definitely entered through the door. I unlocked it with magic. ...How will you defeat this magic, this closed room?!": "...Th, the key! Genji-san and the others said there was only one key, but that's impossible to prove! The culprit secretly made a duplicate key...!" The flipside of this is that anything we don't see through Battler's eyes, and that isn't stated in red, may or may not be complete horseshit. : "Arg... Th, then what about this. The culprit made something other than a legitimate key and opened it! I don't know what, but maybe a wire! A tool for picking locks!!" Oh, and like...probably every other “language of absolute truth” in fiction ever, while the red can't tell flat out lies, it can be used to mislead. Exact words are important, consider alternate interpretations, etc. : "Then what about this!! There's something wrong with the door itself! Even while it is locked, there was some way to pass through it...! As to what that is, I can think of a few ways! Maybe like on the big doors to a castle which have a smaller door on them, there was another door here! It's also possible that they removed the hinges, and then removed the whole door before entering!!" For lack of [color] tags on the forums, I'm going to be screenshotting all of the colored text as it comes up. Red isn't the only color we'll be seeing over the course of 8 episodes, and doing it this way keeps us from ending up in double-tag territory, and makes sure they don't get mixed up. It does mean updates with particularly large concentrations of colored text will be a bit more screenshot-heavy than the norm, but if need be I can always trim length a bit and/or make particularly long strings video-only to compensate. The rough one update = one chapter ratio isn't going to really hold up long-term anyway, given the length of some later episodes. : "Not even close!! You said that the six people entered through a door, but you didn't say it was the front door! They might have entered through another secret door!!" Also if you're wondering how the hell red text works as an in-world thing...well, the VN never really offers an explanation for that. It just does. The anime's answer was to have colortext words spell themselves out in the air in front of the speaker, which, DEEN fabrication or not, works as well as anything if you want more than “just stop questioning this and roll with it.” : "That's screwed up!! The door was locked, it was impossible to unlock without using that single key, and yet six people entered through this door?!?! How did they do it?!! Magic, you say?! drat it, drat it drat it drat it drat it drat it!!!": "Wahahahahahahaaah!! Have we already exposed a human's limits? Then shout that you resign!! When someone gives up and shouts that, it is customary for the king to be defeated. Come on, do you give up?! Then proclaim your submission, and kneel so that your king is defeated!! And then you should kiss my shoes! There's no greater joy than forcing a man like you to lick my shoes, *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*kakakakakakakakakakaka!!"...drat iiiiiiiiit... It's useless, useless, useless... So I can't win against the witch...?! This isn't chess at all, I've just been made to take the losing side in a chess problem...! Is quibbling about details and getting a draw the best I can do...? : "That definitely won't happen...! Will I surrender, or will you?!! There will be no resolution other than those!! What happened to that bravery when you said this would be torture for us both?! Oioioioi, what a let down, isn't that disappointiiiiiiing? Ushiromiya Battleeeeeeeeeeer...????" ...No matter how many times I move, I can't escape from check. So even without waiting for the next several moves, I can see mate in my future!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh, drat iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit...!! ...After a few more moves, ...I can see where I'll face, ...checkmate...? ... ...Don't give up, Ushiromiya Battler. If I can see myself getting closed in upon... ...Then if I turn the chessboard over..., I can anticipate the next move, right...? Kyrie-san told me... When considering something, the closer you get to the very, very end, ...the easier it becomes to anticipate. Turn it over. ...Turn over, the chessboard...!!    : "...Hoh. Very well. It is your turn, after all. ...*cackle*cackle*": "I was making the mistake of thinking that this rule you made was your own weapon. ...However, I've realized that it can also become a weapon for me. ...It all comes down to this.": "Try it.": "I've spent the whole time focused on how they entered the closed room of the chapel...That way of thinking was useless. ...Aaah, it's useless, it's all useless. ...Turn the chessboard over. ...That's right. The direction of my thinking was backwards. ...This is how I should think. ...How was the chapel, which wasn't a closed room in the first place, made to look like a closed room?": "Here it is. ...The thinking technique that humans have given birth to after a century. Give it a try, *cackle*cackle*!!": "...Say this in red for me. If it's impossible, then refuse. ...Here I go." : "I understand that the only way to enter the chapel is through the door, and that there was only one key. ...But wait. ...Was that key really handed over to Maria yesterday before noon?": "...That's quite long. Summarize it.": "It's something like this. ...We've been under the impression that since midday yesterday, the key was unusable. Therefore, we've been under the impression that this was a closed room from midday yesterday until this morning! I want you to clearly state that this isn't just an impression, but a fact."Battler, I don't think it counts as a summary if it's longer than what you started with. : "Interesting. ...So you reason not about the door, but the key.": "Yesterday, Maria received an envelope from you. Maria didn't open it, but she might have felt it and known there was key inside. ...But there's no way she could be sure it was definitely the key to the chapel. ...So this is what it means. ...There was a fake inside the envelope that was handed to Maria." "Heheh... I know that much. I'll continue. ...So, when Maria received the envelope, inside it, was there definitely that same key to the chapel?" : "...Hoh.": "In other words, it's something like this. ...Midday yesterday, you gave Maria an envelope with a key inside. And you told her that she must not open it. ...Maria probably realized that there was a key inside." : "...So is this what you are trying to say? That when I entrusted Maria with a key, that key was a fake? And then, by the time Rosa obtained it, it had been switched with the real thing...?": "Yeah, that's it. ...What's wrong, Beatrice-sama? Looks like you haven't been feeling good for a while...?" : "...Those close to me also call me Beato. Beato is fine.": "It's your turn, Beato. Turn of the golden witch! ...Show me how you defeat that." : "I'll chase you. ...Can you repeat it in red? ...'That envelope was completely under Maria's supervision until Rosa oba-san opened it'.": "...": "...If it's impossible, then state that you refuse. Check.": "...Ku, ...I refuse.": "Now I've turned it over with just one move. ...Now it's time for your king to run, Beato.": "...Fu, I have a reason for refusing. That is regarding the definition of the phrase 'under her supervision'. ...In its purest meaning, Maria would need to have her eyes on it around the clock. ...But Maria didn't go that far. It was probably completely under her supervision during the time she had it outside of her handbag, but after she put it into her handbag, it disappeared from her field of vision. It's just that the phrase 'under her supervision' is inappropriate in that sense, so I couldn't use red. ...ku...”  : "...I will also, ...refuse this. ...I won't explain the reason.": "That's wrong. ...It's not that you won't explain, it's that you can't explain it. ...With this move, have we reached checkmate...?": "...Ku..."  Alt. update title: Turnabout Chapel. : "...However! Maria didn't have the handbag under her complete supervision! There's no need for magic. It's a closed room trick that's possible for a human! The human culprit handed Maria the key, and by making Rosa oba-san use it the next morning, they created the illusion that there was a closed room during that time. You can't deny the possibility that during that time, the culprit took the key from Maria's handbag, used it, and returned it by morning!!" First the music, now the pointing. Battler Ushiromiya: ACE : "N, ...not yet. I remove the check...The envelope with the key in it should have been sealed with wax...! Rosa took it from an unopened envelope..."   : "Wh, ...wha, ...aat...!!": "It isn't important whether the envelopes are the same thing. ...Because envelopes can be sealed with wax over and over! The key inside should be the important thing.": "...Ku, ...kuuuuuuu...": "This time, it's all over, Golden Witch. It's a real checkmate. ...I'll ask one more time, repeat it!! If you can say it, try saying it! 'The key to the chapel inside the envelope Maria received wasn't used even once until Rosa oba-san opened the envelope'!!": "..., ...Ku, ...how, ...! How..., c, ...could I..., to a lowly human...!!": "I'll keep on saying it, Beatrice!!! Repeat it!! 'The key to the chapel inside the envelope Maria received wasn't used even once until Rosa oba-san opened the envelope'!!": "...ooh, ku, ...ooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhh!!!": "If you're gonna yell, then say it, you resign! It's decided!! This is the truth. Before Rosa oba-san obtained Maria's key this morning, at one point, it passed to someone else's hands." : "Then they used it, resealed it, and returned it to Maria's handbag, making it look like it hadn't been used! This is a trick with a cheap loophole, the assumption that the key wasn't used because the sealing wax wasn't opened!! Checkmate!! There's no magic, it's nothing more than a trick that's possible for humans!!": "I, in that case..., who do you say stole the key?! Try answering! This time, you try repeating it...!!": "That's right, I'm making you repeat things all the time. I probably have to answer every once in a while... : "I've smashed your closed room with something possible even for humans. However, I won't specifically investigate who the culprit is. Because I believe humans!! Because I definitely won't accept that there's a person among us who would steal the key from Maria, use it, and do something so horrible!!"You've never paid much attention to your family, have you Battler? : "Fu, fufufufufufuhahahahahahahaha!!! I give up, I resign! Just once, for this board, I'll give up. ...But, you really are naive, Battler.": "Parting remarks are a loser's privilege. Say as many as you want.": "...Ku...! Since you continue to deny my existence, you will eventually be cornered... After all, since you deny me, you will have to suspect those relatives that you can't stop loving...! In the last moment, when you have to suspect one who is beloved to you, then you will definitely accept my existence...!!"    Next time: Yes, give her a gun. Surely that will end well!
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Oct 12, 2013 01:15
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Finally, the introduction of colored words has arrived! We really don't have a color tag? I mean sure, there'd be those obnoxious people who tag their whole posts a different color, but surely we can suspend them for doing that and still have a color tag for better uses? Shiny777 posted:
I think that middle one is Battler's line, right? Meirlkor fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 01:56
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Shiny777 posted:Next time: Yes, give her a gun. Surely that will end well! Yes! Beatrice with a gun! Skip the demons, let's agree to Battler's demands and show how humans kill humans without the use of magic!
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Oct 12, 2013 02:05
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Another suitable title for this update:  We have a color tag, but apparently it's only for custom title usage. Fake edit: It looks like that's not a coded thing, though. Maybe ask slowbeef about it?
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Oct 12, 2013 02:09
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Yeah, 6x9=42. Sure. 
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Oct 12, 2013 02:21
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Kreeblah posted:Yeah, 6x9=42. Sure. It isn't the actual answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. The Earth's program for calculating the Answer was corrupted by the arrival of the Golgafrinchan B Ark.
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Oct 12, 2013 02:29
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It begins. I don't mind extra screenshots for Red Text because that usually means that Beatrice is making a fun face.
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Oct 12, 2013 02:32
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Yes, finally we see the two main staples of this game: Colors and Battler acting like Phoenix Wright
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Oct 12, 2013 02:41
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The whole detective PoV thing isn't brought up until ep 5 I believe, along with the rest of Knox. In addition I think I remember the game saying Knox doesn't necessarily apply to the previous episodes.Confused Llama posted:It isn't the actual answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. The Earth's program for calculating the Answer was corrupted by the arrival of the Golgafrinchan B Ark. No, 42 is the actual answer to the Ultimate Question. The Earth program was to find out what that Ultimate Question was, not to determine the answer. whitehelm fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 12, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 02:53
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Shiny777 posted:
The more I look at this the more magical it becomes.
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Oct 12, 2013 02:54
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It seems Battler has found the same loophole in the sealed key thing that I spotted, although Beatrice's red answers means it was tricker than I used. Still, I expected no less from Battler. Finally, the game is starting for real.Shiny777 posted:The flipside of this is that anything we don't see through Battler's eyes, and that isn't stated in red, may or may not be complete horseshit. Example: Kanon having a light-blade fencing match, then him and Jessica getting killed by girl-demons. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Oct 12, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 02:55
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Dread of the Grave is one of a number of "cool poo poo is about to happen themes," this one usually meaning Battler will be the one doing the cool poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2013 03:07
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whitehelm posted:No, 42 is the actual answer to the Ultimate Question. The Earth program was to find out what that Ultimate Question was, not to determine the answer. Oops, yes, sorry, you're right. I misspoke. ...mistyped?
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Oct 12, 2013 03:11
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So now we finally have confirmation that disturbingly few scenes in the first episode were reliable (beyond the fact that it all might have been a letter that Maria wrote). Fantastic.
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Oct 12, 2013 04:16
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I was waiting for the colored words to come into play. Umineko doesn't truly start until they show up.
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Oct 12, 2013 06:16
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This is probably the easiest mystery in the series from what I remember, so I appreciate the game resolving in it one scene so as to not make Battler seem too slow to have a chance by needing ages to think of a solution. And yeah, this is definitely the proper start of the games.
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Oct 12, 2013 16:07
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Autumncomet posted:So now we finally have confirmation that disturbingly few scenes in the first episode were reliable (beyond the fact that it all might have been a letter that Maria wrote). Fantastic. Get used to that. With Umineko, everything can said to be largely subjective. It isn't a mind screw for nothin'. Anyways... I'm betting that
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Oct 12, 2013 18:30
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Red truth steps in. Now the real game is on, and it's one of the two things that keeps going till the end of the series. Also, Kinzo is a master artist, I'm glad he got Kannon and Shannon right, they are really hard characters to draw.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:39
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:58 |
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Whew... found the thread a few days ago, finally caught up. I've read some of the manga quite a while back - episode 1, the beginning of episode 2 (not even as far as the thread's gotten), and, due to a mistake in titles, the very beginning of what I think I eventually established was episode 4 - but sadly never finished. Great LP so far, Shiny! A couple of thoughts... First, 6x9=42 is true in base 13. I wonder how significant that is. Kinzo brought it up after mentioning that there would be 13 sacrifices. The 6 could go with the number of sacrifices in the first twilight, I suppose; I don't know what else it would be. 9 or 42? No clue. If I'm right about the 6, perhaps something to due with the ritual? Or I could be way off base, it could be something else entirely, or I could be reading too much into it and it's actually insignificant. Second, can we really just... take Beatrice at her word when she says the red text is true? Maybe I'm just rather distrustful, but that seems like an easy way to cover lies as truth.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:18
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