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Antti posted:This isn't a definitive explanation but I think French and German are too big. Let me explain. In the larger European countries like France, Germany, Spain and Italy, there is enough funding and demand to dub foreign (almost always English-language) movies and TV series. Meanwhile in smaller countries like the Nordic countries and the Netherlands, everything is subtitled instead. Even if it isn't the root cause, it certainly has facilitated learning at least one foreign language for people in those countries. From Wikipedia: It's weird seeing UK as using subtitles since almost every British documentary I have seen have used some dubbing with lovely accents when some German or other non-English speaker is talking. the jizz taxi posted:I think another reason why Scandinavians, the Dutch, Flemings and Slovenians (apparently) prefer subbing over dubbing is because the actual physical or cultural distance to 'bigger' cultures is smaller, so they're more familiar with how other languages sound. If you grow up in the middle of nowhere in France, you're unlikely to be confronted with anything that isn't French, whereas in Flanders, you usually have to travel less than 60km to hit a language border at some point. Pump it up! Do it! fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 09:45
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Jerry Cotton posted:A lot of outfits use the exact same amount of money, meaning the dubs are done by friends and relatives. Well, it probably doesn't take long to record one of those one-voice-fits-all dubs, but if you're using an actual cast and poo poo, the cost is significant compared to subs. Lord Tywin posted:It's weird seeing UK as using subtitles since almost every British documentary I have seen have used some dubbing with lovely accents when some German or other non-English speaker is talking. Documentaries use dubs like that often, yes, but you don't see dubbed films (discounting children's cartoons) in the UK. Another thing to note about documentaries is that they're generally done with re-recorded voiceovers even in countries where subs are used, like Finland. quote:That doesn't any sense at all since Norway and Sweden is among the largest countries in Europe. It was a dumb point, but there might be something to it considering the omnipresence of English-language media in Scandinavia and such, compared to France, Germany or Italy.
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Oct 14, 2013 10:38
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Yeah the additional media and culture you get access to when learning English is just to great to pass up for us in smaller countries. We certainly have our own cultures but it balloons by orders of magnitude by accessing the anglosphere. Perhaps if you're German or French you'll have less reason and motivation to become really proficient in English since you belong to a larger linguo-cultural sphere already.
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Oct 14, 2013 12:07
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Lord Tywin posted:That doesn't any sense at all since Norway and Sweden is among the largest countries in Europe. Yes, but most major population centres are fairly close to other countries and their populations are quite small. All of Scandinavia, if one country, would still be less populous than Poland or Spain.
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Oct 14, 2013 12:10
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A bit late but yes, the 10%+ home language in southeast Massachusetts (and part of Rhode Island?) is definitely Portuguese.
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Oct 14, 2013 14:38
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Yeah, there are a fair few Portuguese speakers in RI. Benefits include easy access to delicious Portuguese food and a cultural festival in the summer with good music. EDIT: Actually, wouldn't some of the area near Boston be Vietnamese? I remember there being a pretty sizable immigrant community around there.
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Oct 14, 2013 14:47
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I felt like adding something to me previous post on the subject:A Buttery Pastry posted:I'm not sure anyone has claimed any intrinsic cosmopolitanism? Economics have made dubbing unfeasible for us, but that just means we get to see movies and television with the voices of the original actors. Actors whose way of speaking can in itself be an important part of the story, which can't be replicated simply by replacing a Southern drawl with the dialect of an Austrian country bumpkin. (Something that you can't even be sure will be replicated in a dub anyway.) I would really like to see an argument for why dubbing is superior, especially in the case of original languages that the viewer is practically bilingual in. On the other hand, if the fact that you're doing dubs means more care is taken in translation, I guess I can see the value in it. Even if that value could then be applied to subtitles anyway, which gets us back to square one. I suppose that with digital broadcasting and modern streaming services, this might become a moot point in countries that favor dubbing anyway, just give people the choice between either option.
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Oct 14, 2013 14:49
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Ras Het posted:
You see dubbed interviews on TV in the UK, though. Like if they're showing an interview with Angela Merkel, it's dubbed rather than subbed. (?)
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Oct 14, 2013 14:58
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Protocol 5 posted:EDIT: Actually, wouldn't some of the area near Boston be Vietnamese? I remember there being a pretty sizable immigrant community around there. Yeah, and there's some Hmong in Rhode Island. Not 10% though. I found the original: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/us-language-map/ It looks like it's just showing the most common language-other-than-English in counties where the total of all non-English speakers is > 10%. So Norfolk County (just south of Boston) has 18% non-English with Chinese being the most common, but I would guess it's not much ahead of Spanish. Plymouth and Bristol counties have 11% and 21% non-English speakers with Portuguese the most common. Providence County, RI has 30% non-English speakers with Spanish being the most common.
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Oct 14, 2013 15:03
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I'm always amazed at how well all those Germans and Scandinavians in the Upper Midwest seem to have been assimilated. What with all the isolated farming towns, you'd think there'd be more of a cultural legacy besides Lutheranism.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:34
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Phlegmish posted:I'm always amazed at how well all those Germans and Scandinavians in the Upper Midwest seem to have been assimilated. What with all the isolated farming towns, you'd think there'd be more of a cultural legacy besides Lutheranism.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:38
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Hip Flask posted:You see dubbed interviews on TV in the UK, though. You mean in like news programmes? If it's like a thing that's on TV three hours after recording, that might actually also be because it's easier for an interpreter to record a new audio track for it than type & integrate subs.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:44
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SurgicalOntologist posted:A bit late but yes, the 10%+ home language in southeast Massachusetts (and part of Rhode Island?) is definitely Portuguese. Yes, I believe Brazistol County, Rhode Island is known for it's large Portuguese population! Lotta Portuguese there.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:50
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R. Mute posted:Being German in the US became very unpopular in the beginning of the twentieth century and then even less popular halfway through the century... for some reason. I keep hearing about how the World Wars just demolished a distinct German culture in the US, but the local evidence I've come across doesn't align with that.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:51
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Ras Het posted:You mean in like news programmes? If it's like a thing that's on TV three hours after recording, that might actually also be because it's easier for an interpreter to record a new audio track for it than type & integrate subs. Well, I've seen live subbing (interviews after sports events etc.), so I don't think that's a big issue.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:01
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Lawman 0 posted:How many people actually end up learning multiple (3-5) languages in Europe? I traveled in Europe in the early 90's before ATMs and Automated Kiosks were common. To buy train tickets you had to stand in line for a teller. In Paris, each line had a sign with the flags symbolizing the languages that teller spoke. Some of them had 6-7 flags, it was quite impressive.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:03
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Ofaloaf posted:I keep hearing about how the World Wars just demolished a distinct German culture in the US, but the local evidence I've come across doesn't align with that. Maybe a lot of stuff from German culture just became part of the American culture? It's the largest ancestry group in the U.S. I mean, Christmas tree, hot dogs, beer, hamburgers, organized gymnastics, beer, pretzels, and also beer. That's lot of important stuff that Germans have contributed to the United States.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:06
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Ofaloaf posted:It doesn't always perfectly align, though. I recently came upon a copy of the local (here in Michigan) Lutheran church's church council minutes-- a translated copy, because all council minutes were recorded in German by the secretary until 1956. English-language services only started being offered in the mid-1920s, well after the anti-German wave of WWI had come and gone, and likewise the administrative language switch that happened in 1956 is a decade beyond WWII. The same church still offers German-language services, although few people attend those services nowadays. It's interesting what little communities manage to survive. In Texas there's a fair number of Czechs that settled and you can still buy their food around, and in Idaho there's actually a fairly substantial Basque community and every five years they have a Jaialdi festival.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:06
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Ofaloaf posted:It doesn't always perfectly align, though. I recently came upon a copy of the local (here in Michigan) Lutheran church's church council minutes-- a translated copy, because all council minutes were recorded in German by the secretary until 1956. English-language services only started being offered in the mid-1920s, well after the anti-German wave of WWI had come and gone, and likewise the administrative language switch that happened in 1956 is a decade beyond WWII. The same church still offers German-language services, although few people attend those services nowadays. In MI there's also Frankenmuth. A town who's entire economy is based off shouting "look how German we are!" and Christmas decorations. I guess it's not the most visible European culture in the US, (how can you tell if an American has Irish ancestry? Don't worry, they'll tell you) but in my experience it's not exactly hidden and certainly not dead.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:07
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Ofaloaf posted:It doesn't always perfectly align, though. I recently came upon a copy of the local (here in Michigan) Lutheran church's church council minutes-- a translated copy, because all council minutes were recorded in German by the secretary until 1956. English-language services only started being offered in the mid-1920s, well after the anti-German wave of WWI had come and gone, and likewise the administrative language switch that happened in 1956 is a decade beyond WWII. The same church still offers German-language services, although few people attend those services nowadays. It depends where you lived. Evansville (Indiana) had a huge german speaking population and 2 german newspapers. When WW2 rolled around Evansville was picked to build LST's and the german papers and german men's clubs were all shut down. I don't even think schools here even teach german anymore. I think the reason it died here and in most places is because it was bad for the war effort. In places where the military didn't have anything it probably survived. Peanut President fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 17:20
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Kalos posted:In MI there's also Frankenmuth. A town who's entire economy is based off shouting "look how German we are!" and Christmas decorations. I guess it's not the most visible European culture in the US, (how can you tell if an American has Irish ancestry? Don't worry, they'll tell you) but in my experience it's not exactly hidden and certainly not dead.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:47
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If that's anything like like Solvang, California, a so-called "Danish" town, then it might be closer to a resurrection. A resurrection that brought back something wrong. Though supposedly the Danish immigrants didn't have the same sense of national identity that many other European immigrants did, which led to them assimilating quickly and willingly, so perhaps a German town would be more likely to retain something approaching an authentic link to the past. All I know is that Solvang is loving freaky as hell to look at as a Dane, like some fever dream version of a Denmark based more on fairy tales than reality. Well, it is Southern California, and it is a decent spot along the 101 for a tourist trap. I do like Santa Maria tri tip tacos though.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:52
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DarkCrawler posted:Yes, I believe Brazistol County, Rhode Island is known for it's large Portuguese population! Lotta Portuguese there. Err, not sure what you're getting at, but if you think I'm mixing up Brazilian and Portuguese, the southeast Mass - Rhode Island area actually has a large number of Portuguese immigrants. There are some Brazilian communities closer to Boston, though. (It was actually a bit confusing for me, since I grew up in an area with Brazilian immigrants, and of course people who didn't know better referred to them as Portuguese. Then I moved to Providence and at first I thought everyone was making the same mistake) E: Or is Brazistol actually a local nickname for Bristol county? Never heard that before. I have heard the Fall River bridge called "the longest bridge in the world" since it goes from MA to Portugal.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:03
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computer parts posted:It's interesting what little communities manage to survive. In Texas there's a fair number of Czechs that settled and you can still buy their food around, and in Idaho there's actually a fairly substantial Basque community and every five years they have a Jaialdi festival. They make good beer, too.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:16
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Ardennes posted:Well, it is Southern California, and it is a decent spot along the 101 for a tourist trap.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:09
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I'm sure it's a fine tourist trap, and it does seem to paint a decent enough picture of Denmark, given the American context, but it just doesn't seem like an authentic traditional immigrant community to me. On the other hand, I might just be reacting to a kind of uncanny valley effect, due to it being like Denmark but not quite. At least it seems the pastries are up to code, which is like half of the Danish experience anyway. Christ, I think I kinda want to go there now just to see it first hand. The Santa Ynez valley is a really pretty part of California. The local wines aren't the best but it a lot calmer to visit than Napa area. It also has history such has hosting the Neverland Ranch, Woodie Guthrie, and Migrant Mother.  Edit: I'd probably categorize the Santa Ynez area as "Central Coast" if I had to place it but it can go as "SoCal" if California is halved. Bip Roberts fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 19:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If that's anything like like Solvang, California, a so-called "Danish" town, then it might be closer to a resurrection. A resurrection that brought back something wrong. Though supposedly the Danish immigrants didn't have the same sense of national identity that many other European immigrants did, which led to them assimilating quickly and willingly, so perhaps a German town would be more likely to retain something approaching an authentic link to the past. All I know is that Solvang is loving freaky as hell to look at as a Dane, like some fever dream version of a Denmark based more on fairy tales than reality. That's what I think Frankenmuth is like, basically what an American thinks German towns are like. The fact that there's a giant store dedicated entirely to Christmas ornaments nearby only adds to the freakiness. But then again, these places are tourist traps, I'm sure a truly authentic small town German (or Danish) experience would be pretty uninteresting.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:43
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SurgicalOntologist posted:Err, not sure what you're getting at, but if you think I'm mixing up Brazilian and Portuguese, the southeast Mass - Rhode Island area actually has a large number of Portuguese immigrants. There are some Brazilian communities closer to Boston, though. It's a joke from a TV Show. If you're too busy to watch it, basically a presumably German-American character tries to explain why he knows Portuguese despite being well, a German and...turns out he's one of the Boys from Brazil (a very different kind of German American, if you've read the book). That's where he claims to be from, even though obviously such a county doesn't exist (and he thinks RI's capital is Dallas). Sorry, that was kind of dumb in retrospect. I just thought it was kind of funny that there are actually a decent amount of Portuguese speakers in Rhode Island. 
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Oct 14, 2013 19:45
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Abilifier posted:That's what I think Frankenmuth is like, basically what an American thinks German towns are like. The fact that there's a giant store dedicated entirely to Christmas ornaments nearby only adds to the freakiness. But then again, these places are tourist traps, I'm sure a truly authentic small town German (or Danish) experience would be pretty uninteresting.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:05
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Dusseldorf posted:The Santa Ynez valley is a really pretty part of California. The local wines aren't the best but it a lot calmer to visit than Napa area. The wines are fine over all, I don't know the prize taking in the region but I would say it is at least on the level of the rest of the major regions in California. Eh, I would say at least the area around Lompoc is border region of SoCal at this point as influence has steadily creeped out of LA/SB. The central coast has condensed over time and I might put the border closer to Santa Maria at this point especially considering how Santa Ynez is more and more reliant on tourism from the south. More or less the same thing about NorCal, the border is somewhere between Santa Cruz and Moneterey. I don't know how different Solvang is from what St.Patrick's day became more the international phenomena of "Irish pubs" which obviously didn't start in Ireland. Everything the US touches becomes commercialized if a profit can be made out of it.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:10
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Now here's a map I'm sure goons will enjoy: http://flowingdata.com/2013/10/14/pizza-place-geography/
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Oct 14, 2013 20:28
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DrBouvenstein posted:Now here's a map I'm sure goons will enjoy: I honestly had no idea that Godfather's existed outside of military bases.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:32
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'The nearest pizza chain among the ones above'? What does that mean? I cannot figure out what is being depicted. Edit: oh, so it's literally about which pizza place is closest to (presumably) the center of each square. quote:This is the point of the map above, which shows the nearest pizza place within a 10-mile radius across the United States. Nice and clean data courtesy of AggData. It seems very arbitrary and a questionable indicator for popularity. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 20:35
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Phlegmish posted:'The nearest pizza chain among the ones above'? What does that mean? I cannot figure out what is being depicted. Nearest Pizza chain in each of those squares. The colors is what chain it is.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:40
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DrBouvenstein posted:Now here's a map I'm sure goons will enjoy: This really is a very hard to read map. It shows the problem with displaying too much granular data without using binning.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:41
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Peanut President posted:Nearest Pizza chain in each of those squares. The colors is what chain it is.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:44
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A Buttery Pastry posted:But what the heck does "nearest pizza chain" mean when talking about an area, as opposed to a point? Maybe the center of each square?
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Oct 14, 2013 20:51
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He should have explicitly stated that. It's also not really a 'radius', since the geographical units appear to be squares and not circles. Mad about pizza maps 
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Oct 14, 2013 20:57
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DrBouvenstein posted:Maybe the center of each square?
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Oct 14, 2013 20:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:But what the heck does "nearest pizza chain" mean when talking about an area, as opposed to a point? I don't really know. I'm not sure why you just wouldn't do counties.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:00
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