p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

AlsoD posted:

The backend to Detexify is written in Haskell using Happstack, there's a link to the sources at the bottom of the page.

I'm the web development toolkit called loli

I kinda want to try Haskell at some point, but I need to solve a real problem with it, and a web application seems like the best way to go there, since the only thing webapps need to be able to speak is sockets (and some sort of data storage facility in order to actually be useful). Compare that to app development on client platforms, you're not going to write a Qt app in Haskell (well, you might, but that doesn't particularly seem like a fun time)

So I'm guessing there's no fancy-pants Haskell data stores out there, just libpq wrappers and whatnot?

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:42

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:41

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

the guy who made Haskell literally admitted its useless for anything other than a beta language for c# features. do not use Haskell unless you are beta testing new language features

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:43

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

why wouldn't you just test with f# then?

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:50

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

f# is basically Microsoft's internal Haskell that somehow escaped into the wild

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:52

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

exactly

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:53

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Mr Dog posted:

I'm the web development toolkit called loli

I kinda want to try Haskell at some point, but I need to solve a real problem with it, and a web application seems like the best way to go there, since the only thing webapps need to be able to speak is sockets (and some sort of data storage facility in order to actually be useful). Compare that to app development on client platforms, you're not going to write a Qt app in Haskell (well, you might, but that doesn't particularly seem like a fun time)

So I'm guessing there's no fancy-pants Haskell data stores out there, just libpq wrappers and whatnot?

There's bindings to a bunch of databases (and QT for that matter) but if you want fancy-pants Haskell data store, I've heard good things about acid-state.

I'd really recommend going through Learn You A Haskell before trying to tackle anything big; I have spoken to a number of people who expect to be able to dive right in like they could with when switching to another j-lang and it rarely turns out well.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:55

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

once again, just use yesod

# ? Oct 14, 2013 15:56

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Here's also an introduction to using OpenGL from Haskell: http://www.renci.org/wp-content/pub/tutorials/BeautifulCode.pdf

idk how accessible it would be to an absolute pre-syntax beginner though, I still think you should go through lyah first.

e: as to why learn haskell? most people ive spoken to who have done so said that it lead to them thinking about data a little differently and this translated through to their normal oo work. why immutable data is so good (remember if you really want to you can mutate your state*), why you'd want lambdas, to be more aware of your side effects, that kind of thing.

if you want to poo poo out another porn site then go ahead idc but if you want to expand your programming vocab than a functional lang (be it haskell or erlang or whatever) will do that

*: see this paper where the authors used mutable state to get good complexity in a core part of their library before hiding the mutable part and basing the rest of their (immutable) api on it: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.49.2591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

gonadic io fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Oct 14, 2013

# ? Oct 14, 2013 16:09

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Shaggar posted:

the guy who made Haskell literally admitted its useless for anything other than a beta language for c# features. do not use Haskell unless you are beta testing new language features

he's pretty cool, i met him last week for a work thing

# ? Oct 14, 2013 16:16

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Shaggar posted:

f# is basically Microsoft's internal Haskell that somehow escaped into the wild

actually it's their internal ml that escaped into the wild, but close enough for govt work

# ? Oct 14, 2013 16:41

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

fwiw i'm sure that lens will be showing up in C# in about 5 years with bad syntax

# ? Oct 14, 2013 16:44

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Otto Skorzeny posted:

actually it's their internal ml that escaped into the wild, but close enough for govt work

i thought it was ocaml.net basically

# ? Oct 14, 2013 16:46

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

I'm still sad not more languages adopted macros like Nemerle did, it's only ever ADTs and whatnot. :shobon:

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:01

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

php > $a = "2d9";
php > echo $a;
2d9
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
2e0
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
3
php >

:q:

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:04

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

tef posted:

php > $a = "2d9";
php > echo $a;
2d9
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
2e0
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
3
php >

lol. wontfix

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:08

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

tef posted:

php > $a = "2d9";
php > echo $a;
2d9
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
2e0
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
3
php >

ya. operator overloading is bad

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:10

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

Vanadium posted:

I'm still sad not more languages adopted macros like Nemerle did, it's only ever ADTs and whatnot.

had never heard of it before now

code:

macro @if (cond, e1, e2)
syntax ("if", "(", cond, ")", e1, Optional (";"), "else", e2)
{
  /*
    <[ ]> defines an area of quasi-quotation, the Nemerle compiler transforms a code in a such block
    to an AST tree, such transformations are somewhat similar to an Expression compiling in C#
  */
  <[
    match ($cond : bool)
    {
      | true => $e1
      | _ => $e2
    }
  ]>
}
 
// using this macro in code:
def max = if (a > b) a else b;
// during a compile time the upper line will be transformed to the following:
def max = match (a > b)
{
  | true => a
  | _    => b
}

maybe its because im a rubbish programmer, but the idea of working on other people's code when poo poo like that is central to the language is terrifying

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:10

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

AlsoD posted:

fwiw i'm sure that lens will be showing up in C# in about 5 years with bad syntax

one thing that i don't think people give lens enough credit for is that you can write your own lenses to view a data structure as something else, so you can write lenses that set bits/bytes of an integer like this:

code:

> set (bitAt 3) False (0xFF)
247
> view (bitAt 3) 0x8
True
> ((-1) :: Word16)^.byteAt 1
255
> byteAt 0 .~ 128 $ 65535
65408

(of course if you're doing more than a little bit twiddling you actually probably want to define your own adt, but that's not the point)

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:13

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

tef posted:

php > $a = "2d9";
php > echo $a;
2d9
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
2e0
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
3
php >

i actually thought the first increment was a cast to hex but 2d9+1 isn't 2e0 so idk

loving php i tell you

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:14

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

What, you don't want to write code that runs at compile time and implicitly defines a class hierarchy matching your database schema? Or define your language's basic loops as a macro wrapping lexical closures and recursion? Or write your own neat decorators/attributes/w/e? :getin:

I'm not sure it's really a good idea to use complex macros anywhere outside, like, a framework working up its way to a DSL, but it's kinda impressive how lightweight their mechanism for loving with the language's syntax is.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:15

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

Also you didn't quote the xml literals.

Vanadium fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 14, 2013

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:17

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

well that certainly is a thing

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:22

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

Vanadium posted:

What, you don't want to write code that runs at compile time and implicitly defines a class hierarchy matching your database schema? Or define your language's basic loops as a macro wrapping lexical closures and recursion? Or write your own neat decorators/attributes/w/e?

I think this kind of thing is pretty neat actually, I wish c++ would go there

its operator overloading and expression templates and constexpr functions (which are becoming much less limited in c++14) and other such things pushed to their logical conclusion

# ? Oct 14, 2013 17:39

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

tef posted:

i thought it was ocaml.net basically

that's almost exactly what it is

# ? Oct 14, 2013 18:06

Alligator: Jun 10, 2009; LOCK AND LOAF

tef posted:

php > $a = "2d9";
php > echo $a;
2d9
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
2e0
php > $a++;
php > echo $a;
3
php >

what the heck is happening here, i can't make sense of this

# ? Oct 14, 2013 18:32

Dicky B: Mar 23, 2004

Alligator posted:

PHP Megathread: what the heck is happening here, i can't make sense of this

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:24

PrBacterio: Jul 19, 2000

Dicky B posted:

but seriously, in what way does php figure that the increment of 2d9 is 2e0?

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:31

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Alligator posted:

what the heck is happening here, i can't make sense of this

hint: e is for exponential notation.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:32

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

PrBacterio posted:

but seriously, in what way does php figure that the increment of 2d9 is 2e0?

i guess you might not be familiar with the advanced concept of "carrying the one" if you didn't make it through elementary school

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:33

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

PrBacterio posted:

but seriously, in what way does php figure that the increment of 2d9 is 2e0?

well, you try to increment the last character, which is 9. 9+1=10, so you carry the 1 up. d + 1 is e, since it's 1 letter ahead.

code:

php > $x = "2x9";
php > $x++;
php > print $x;
php > echo $x;
2y0

note that this doesn't work if you do $x = $x + 1

also if you do $x = "zzz"; $x++; you get "aaaa". i guess this is to make autogenerating alphanumeric identifiers easier???

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:36

weird: Jun 4, 2012; by zen death robot

Vanadium posted:

I'm not sure it's really a good idea to use complex macros anywhere outside, like, a framework working up its way to a DSL, but it's kinda impressive how lightweight their mechanism for loving with the language's syntax is.

http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:43

wins32767: Mar 16, 2007

Tiny Bug Child posted:

hint: e is for exponential notation.

2^0 should be 1 no?

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:47

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

wins32767 posted:

2^0 should be 1 no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_notation#E_notation

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:48

PrBacterio: Jul 19, 2000

wins32767 posted:

2^0 should be 1 no?

alright maybe this is all nothing but a huge troll but I though php's behaviour in that example was stupid before, but now there's people coming out of the woodwork saying that they seriously don't know how computer scientific/exponential floating point notation works, in a thread about programming

:psyduck:

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:54

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

most people don't ever use it while programming.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:55

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

$("#submit").hidden(); is most of the coding anyone needs.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:56

Janitor Prime: Jan 22, 2004; PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean; Fun Shoe

Tiny Bug Child posted:

i guess you might not be familiar with the advanced concept of "carrying the one" if you didn't make it through elementary school

rofl php is the worst

# ? Oct 14, 2013 19:57

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

2d9 + 1 isn't 2e0 either.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 20:01

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

2d9 + 1 isn't 2e0 either.

yes it is. increment 9 and you get 10. carry the 1 and you have to increment d. increment d and you get e.

# ? Oct 14, 2013 20:12

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:41

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

increment 9 and you get A. 2d9 + 1 = 2da. (actually '2d9' + 1 == 'Argument "2d9" isn't numeric in addition (+) at foo.pl line bar' but w/e)

# ? Oct 14, 2013 20:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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