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Best part of that thread (that I've read so far):quote:i have multiple volumes of eccojams in the cryotank set to defrost in the distant future  I also love the idea that eccojams are basically folk music for the digital age. It's so true, the way older music can be repurposed and played around with by anybody. It's the same as it ever was, just now with the pop music you're bombarded with all your waking hours, instead of the folksongs your grandaddy taught you as a kid or whatever. Answers Me fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 10:13
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Epileper posted:if you apply this to the OPN video then maybe there's a bit of both attitudes in there? i mean, you have these people ignoring or neglecting their physical form to pursue their fantasies as anime people or fursonas or whatever else, disregarding their bodies in favor of something more. but the ability to do that and still live in relative comfort, like accessing the internet and staying well-fed, that's somewhat of a luxury isn't it? ascetic and indulgent at the same time. Oh absolutely, that's just the point I was making. Look at this: quote:Threads like these are why I love my basement. I will spend the rest of my life
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Oct 10, 2013 10:41
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That OPN AMA was pretty good. Lopatin is always so drat casual but then he says something really smart out of nowhere, like that quote oiseaux posted. I didn't feel like that Still Life video was primarily judging furries or the other subcultures it depicted. Actually it made me realize that what people get (or want to get) out of those fetishes is maybe not too far off from what I get out of Oneohtrix's music- a realization which isn't entirely comfortable, but which is valuable to me. This is a really interesting interview with James Ferraro. Most interesting part, to me, is the distinction he makes between the dark humor of his work and the conception of his albums as jokes or of him as a prankster. http://www.stereogum.com/1504091/qa...ises/interview/ EDIT- Also NYC Hell is available on Boomkat right now. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 06:25
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On first listen, again, the instrumental, incidental and general atmospheric quality is amazing as it always is. I love the mutilated string samples, straight out of a Rochberg symphony or something. But I'm going to have real troubles with the tacked on, freestyled vocals- it just doesn't work for a lot of tracks
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Oct 14, 2013 09:11
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Lord Krangdar posted:EDIT- Also NYC Hell is available on Boomkat right now. Oh poo poo gotta get on this. After a few more listens to the new OPN, I love it.
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Oct 14, 2013 11:58
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NYC HELL 3:00 AM is currently streaming on Pitchfork. e: Loving the dark atmospherics, but the vocals on this album are really not working for me. HorseRenoir fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 20:07
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So I've never bothered with Ferraro but I consider myself a decent fan of experimental music. Listening to that stream right now and.... what? This is just pop. I guess going into this expecting Smegma is the wrong idea but this just isn't interesting. There is a couple nice sound ideas and City Smells seems like a decent track, but if this is what passes for experimental nowadays I'll stick with the old stuff.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:38
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Killsion posted:This is just pop ... what passes for experimental nowadays WHY can't it be like the old days when it was AMM, Braxton and Boulez??? Gah, stupid pop music. You can't appropriate that, there are RULES you know!
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Oct 14, 2013 21:45
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Killsion posted:So I've never bothered with Ferraro but I consider myself a decent fan of experimental music.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:46
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If you want something a bit more traditional, legendary mastering engineer Rashad Becker put this out recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKvwModIsBY
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Oct 14, 2013 21:47
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:If you want something a bit more traditional, legendary mastering engineer Rashad Becker put this out recently Well this blows the hell out of Ferraro, I'll tell you that much. So you are telling me that somehow, taking pop and R&B beats as a song structure is somehow more experimental than what you just linked, or this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odB-9jmti2U Are you arguing experimental music has gone so far gone the only direction that it could go was come back to pop?
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Oct 14, 2013 21:55
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lol, "more experimental". Listen to yourself
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Oct 14, 2013 22:00
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Killsion posted:So I've never bothered with Ferraro but I consider myself a decent fan of experimental music. Daniel Lopatin posted:http://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/17341/1/oneohtrix-point-never idgi? It's either good music and you like it or it's bad music and you don't. Don't be one of those dickheads who's all REAL music ENDED with the '70s you PHILISTINE
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Oct 14, 2013 22:40
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Killsion posted:So you are telling me that somehow, taking pop and R&B beats as a song structure is somehow more experimental than what you just linked, or this? i like how you're trying to quantify all this arbitrary poo poo. "experimental didnt just become pop because it wants to, it had to 'come back to' pop", like all musical genres are linked on some magical chain ordered by how experimental they are you can't list the amount of new things a song does, dude. just listen to stuff that you enjoy.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:59
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Killsion posted:So you are telling me that somehow, taking pop and R&B beats as a song structure is somehow more experimental than what you just linked, or this? Of course. It's an arms race, always has been. The artists that get it always stay ahead of the curve. Literally anything you can flip on a top-40 radio station and hear right now would have been called "IDM" 15 years ago. Adult Contemporary records are louder on average than any grindcore record that ever came out. There's a reason Ikue Mori switched to drum machine when they were at the height of uncoolness in the larger culture. It can also be simultaneously true that James and others are "just doing what they want, man, don't overthink it." But they don't exist independent of what's happening in the larger culture and the art school scene which most of them came out. Read the scriptures before you get it all twisted; there's a solid century of critical canon about this stuff before anyone came along talking vaporwave. http://www.amazon.com/Lipstick-Trac...marcus+lipstick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_the_Pop_Narcotic
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Oct 14, 2013 23:43
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Of course. It's an arms race, always has been. The artists that get it always stay ahead of the curve. Literally anything you can flip on a top-40 radio station and hear right now would have been called "IDM" 15 years ago. Adult Contemporary records are louder on average than any grindcore record that ever came out. See, now this makes sense. Thank you for actually responding seriously. Still not a fan, but I can kind of see how now.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:50
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not sure about the vocals but the music on the new ferraro is amazing.
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Oct 15, 2013 00:05
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Killsion, maybe try reading the interview with Ferraro I posted?
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Oct 15, 2013 00:27
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that bernard hermann sample on Nushawn 
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Oct 15, 2013 00:44
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I know y'all have got your brains on Ferraro frequencies today, but peep this cool interview with Dean Blunt. It's great, even though it raises far more questions than it answers. http://www.factmag.com/2013/10/14/ingas-was-the-only-opinion-that-mattered-an-audience-with-the-elusive-dean-blunt/
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Oct 15, 2013 00:53
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Lord Krangdar posted:Killsion, maybe try reading the interview with Ferraro I posted? My criticism is a sonic one. My idea of experimental music is more akin to anti-music, though even I would argue "anti-music" is still in fact music, it is a description which works. Noise. Power electronics. Free jazz at its most extreme, etc etc. This is the experimental I know. Going from that to... this... is quite a step down. But it makes sense in that the experimental I know has ran its course and this may well be post-experimental. So ultimately I am now that old man yelling about kids and their wacky music now going on about how back in my day we listened to ear splitting feedback and liked it. I can see the idea behind it, but it isn't for me.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:33
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Killsion posted:My criticism is a sonic one. It's just a different experiment.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:37
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Yeah, I mean "experimental = harsh crazy stuff" is basically academic juggalo as far as I'm concerned.
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Oct 15, 2013 02:30
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Mikhail Gorbachev posted:I know y'all have got your brains on Ferraro frequencies today, but peep this cool interview with Dean Blunt. It's great, even though it raises far more questions than it answers. Thanks for posting this. Re: the first paragraph, its hard to imagine Blunt having "people".
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Oct 15, 2013 03:03
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Killsion posted:My criticism is a sonic one. Far Side Virtual is no different from Merzbow's junk collages, both take cultural detritus/refuse to create a sonic reassemblage that confronts the listener with uncomfortable aspects of an industrial and capitalist reality. Where Merzbow might use the undesireable static of a detuned TV set, so Ferraro has used the throwaway, trivial ringtone or corporate ident. The real experiment here in both cases has nothing to do with your particular preference sounds and the arrangment of said sounds, but how our preconceptions, understanding and attitude towards the sounds and the conception of the music can change over time. Experimental music isn't a genre of music in a traditional sense, it cannot be analysed musicologically like you seem to think. There can be no "post-experimental" when the ethos and approach to the musical concept is ideologically equivalent, regardless of what instrumentation, musical trope, etc. is employed. There isn't a formal structure of rules in place here ("must be noisy", "must not sound like pop"); the only invariant is merely an ongoing 'conversation', typically these days in the form of a subversion or appropriation of mainstream music (which is NYC, HELL all over).
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Oct 15, 2013 11:15
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The music in NYC, Hell 3:00 AM is really really good. And I don't know what to think of his vocals. It's intentional, right? When he used vocals for something like Nightdolls or On Air, it's pretty much spot on with it's subject manner. The over-over-over-over-over use of vocoders makes sense, but the pretty off-key amateurish R&B singing? Hrm, hmmm. I don't know if it's meant to be a parody, sincere vulnerability, or what. Maybe that's a good thing. Anyways, going to repeat this album and stare out of this window on to a rainy urban landscape while drinking this old reheated coffee. quote:Far Side Virtual is no different from Merzbow's junk collages, both take cultural detritus/refuse to create a sonic reassemblage that confronts the listener with uncomfortable aspects of an industrial and capitalist reality. Where Merzbow might use the undesireable static of a detuned TV set, so Ferraro has used the throwaway, trivial ringtone or corporate ident. The real experiment here in both cases has nothing to do with your particular preference sounds and the arrangment of said sounds, but how our preconceptions, understanding and attitude towards the sounds and the conception of the music can change over time. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 22:20
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Mutation posted:And I don't know what to think of his vocals. It's intentional, right? When he used vocals for something like Nightdolls or On Air, it's pretty much spot on with it's subject manner. The over-over-over-over-over use of vocoders makes sense, but the pretty off-key amateurish R&B singing? Hrm, hmmm. I don't know if it's meant to be a parody, sincere vulnerability, or what. Ferraro often inhabits "characters" in his recordings. There's a lot of incongruous stuff going on in overt, mainstream pop music right now that involves traditionally tough, confident, and swaggering R&B dudes instead making music that, 10 years ago, would have been called "emo" - Drake, the Weekend, How to Dress Well, and so on. One of the recent top pop songs on the charts had an otherwise hard-thugging rapper pleading for "love and affection" through dehumanizing autotune. If Ferraro's last few releases have been fractured lens reflections of the sort of seasick unease that permeates modern life and culture, this new turn for him could be read as his take on that. Drake as nu-Leonard Cohen.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:44
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Okay, that does make sense when explained. I guess I'm not really that much in the mainstream pop loop. I wonder if kids growing up with modern music will come across this album a decade or so later and "get it" the way people that grew up in the 80s get Nightdolls With Hairspray. But yeah, great album. It's like a soundtrack to a modern day Eraserhead. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 00:24
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Mutation posted:Okay, that does make sense when explained. I guess I'm not really that much in the mainstream pop loop. I'm not either but I ate at a Chipotle recently.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:27
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Ferraro often inhabits "characters" in his recordings. There's a lot of incongruous stuff going on in overt, mainstream pop music right now that involves traditionally tough, confident, and swaggering R&B dudes instead making music that, 10 years ago, would have been called "emo" - Drake, the Weekend, How to Dress Well, and so on. One of the recent top pop songs on the charts had an otherwise hard-thugging rapper pleading for "love and affection" through dehumanizing autotune. If Ferraro's last few releases have been fractured lens reflections of the sort of seasick unease that permeates modern life and culture, this new turn for him could be read as his take on that. Drake as nu-Leonard Cohen. There is nothing tough and/or swaggering about Drake or Weeknd. Also, at least since the early/mid 90's there's been "hard-thugging" rappers doing soft/r&b songs. Those were also generally the biggest crossover hits, so you still see it now obviously with rap being much more embedded in pop music. It's not a particularly new thing.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:29
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Ferraro often inhabits "characters" in his recordings. There's a lot of incongruous stuff going on in overt, mainstream pop music right now that involves traditionally tough, confident, and swaggering R&B dudes instead making music that, 10 years ago, would have been called "emo" - Drake, the Weekend, How to Dress Well, and so on. One of the recent top pop songs on the charts had an otherwise hard-thugging rapper pleading for "love and affection" through dehumanizing autotune. If Ferraro's last few releases have been fractured lens reflections of the sort of seasick unease that permeates modern life and culture, this new turn for him could be read as his take on that. Drake as nu-Leonard Cohen.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:56
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Prefuse posted:Drake and the weeknd are the opposite of "tough and swaggering". Like alan said there were tons of crossover "soft" hits 10 years ago so none of this is new at all. Future also makes tons of love songs and his autotune is far from dehumanizing. Either you guys are all missing the point entirely, or I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. I'll take the blame on this one. I'm not at all saying that Drake and co. are "tough and swaggering," but that the traditional dominant male R&B star has been positioned, through marketing, as also being a tough guy. With the exception of, say, the Tevin Campbells and the Labi Siffres of the world, this has been the case for decades. When he goes soft, he's doing it to get laid, not because he's being "emo" and introspective. That mainstream R&B is in the middle of an introspective, "alt," "indie," "emo," etc. moment is not at all my pet theory or anything like that. It's the critical narrative of the moment and has been since before Frank Ocean even had his 15 minutes of fame. Transistor Rhythm fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 02:12
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Prefuse posted:Future also makes tons of love songs and his autotune is far from dehumanizing. When autotune is normal, it's invisible and the person just sounds like they're singing fine. Future is clearly working in a post-T-Pain mode where the inhuman glitches and artifacts of the autotune are front and center and blatantly meant to interfere with his voice. Roger Troutman's talkbox parts on Zapp records are more "human" sounding. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's the polar opposite of natural/humanistic autotune and it's disingenuous to insist otherwise.
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Oct 16, 2013 02:15
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Either you guys are all missing the point entirely, or I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. I'll take the blame on this one. I'm not at all saying that Drake and co. are "tough and swaggering," but that the traditional dominant male R&B star has been positioned, through marketing, as also being a tough guy. With the exception of, say, the Tevin Campbells and the Labi Siffres of the world, this has been the case for decades. When he goes soft, he's doing it to get laid, not because he's being "emo" and introspective. That's almost entirely wrong.I mean almost every other song by the big 80's R&B cats was about how their girl was leaving and how sad they were, or how they just wanted love but weren't able to find it. Really it wasn't until rap started getting popular and there were more crossover acts that you started seeing a more "hard" R&B singer; this also coincided with a time where discussing sex and desire openly was becoming more and more accepted/allowed in pop music. Also, you see within rap itself a lot of disdain for R&B singers (especially early on) for being "soft". Traditionally, the R&B dude was soft. It's not your pet theory, but that also doesn't mean it's right. Just because a lot of..."non-urban" media wasn't paying much attention to R&B besides the rare crossover doesn't mean that it's suddenly gotten introspective or anything. It's "the critical narrative of the moment" because critics are starting to pay more attention to R&B acts as some of them have taken on a more rockish/EDM sound that they're familiar with, not because there's been some grand awakening of "emo" in R&B tone. The "moment" is due to non-traditional R&B audiences paying attention to it, and hearing conflict between what their idea of R&B is based on stereotypes from when it first started getting more mainstream attraction and the stuff they're hearing. It's discovering America all over again-it was always there, but the dominant social group didn't know about it/pay it attention so to them it's new. I also think this is where you're getting it wrong with Future-he's not attempting to be dehumanizing, he's attempting to use his autotuned voice as an instrument. Rather than emphasizing traditionally technically-proficient rap, he's chopping up his voice to give him a distinctive style/flow. alansmithee fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 02:34
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Transistor Rhythm posted:When autotune is normal, it's invisible and the person just sounds like they're singing fine. Future is clearly working in a post-T-Pain mode where the inhuman glitches and artifacts of the autotune are front and center and blatantly meant to interfere with his voice. Roger Troutman's talkbox parts on Zapp records are more "human" sounding. There have always been tons of dudes in R&B that have made introspective and emotional songs. Artists like drake are not something new. the weeknd is actually the opposite of what you are pointing out, he's this soft and emotional guy purely because he wants to get laid. Not because he's part of this "new" emo r&b wave. alansmithee posted:I also think this is where you're getting it wrong with Future-he's not attempting to be dehumanizing, he's attempting to use his autotuned voice as an instrument. Rather than emphasizing traditionally technically-proficient rap, he's chopping up his voice to give him a distinctive style/flow. Budget Prefuse fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 02:35
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I've found Ferraro's meandering vocals hit and miss in the past, but I actually think they fit this album quite well. I don't think he's being ironic or parodying anything, he's just expressing his feelings through his voice without much thought or polish going into it.Mutation posted:But yeah, great album. It's like a soundtrack to a modern day Eraserhead. Its even closer to this short PSA by Lynch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSWv90msTUc
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Oct 16, 2013 04:29
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Lord Krangdar posted:Its even closer to this short PSA by Lynch: edit: If you really wish you didn't see that video at night, have an awesome Saint Pepsi music video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrR1TGQY20Y Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 06:39
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Close Ups is such a creepy song, it's like a love song sung by someone deranged whose WAY into someone and is just about to hurt them. When he pauses for a second and you hear what sounds like a Polaroid camera going off...
Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 04:55
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Mutation posted:HOLY poo poo. THAT AIRED ON TELEVISION? Haha awesome.
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Oct 17, 2013 06:12
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Found a cool piece on Hype Williams. Still pretty mysterious, but if this stuff is "true" it really sheds some light on the pre-Dean & Inga days. http://williamalderwick.tumblr.com/post/19590909972/bring-me-the-head-of-denna-frances-glass-hype-williams I really love Inga, quite a bit more than Dean Blunt's solo stuff. Her voice really brings the way-out-there arrangements together. i.e. Galice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sw9OAxhmro Inga's solo mixtape has some cool moments as well.
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Oct 21, 2013 09:36
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