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Astro7x posted:Surely selling Pokemon at $2 a piece is the best way to make money, not selling an entirely identical game with the exception of a half dozen new Pokemon for $40. Haven't played the game since I was a kid, but I had both Red and Blue. A lot of people are buying both X and Y. You gotta catch them all. If you don't, you're a loving failure.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:39
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EA could sell updated rosters for Madden for $2 but it turns out putting the updated roster in a brand new box and charging $60 works a lot better.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:45
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Astro7x posted:Surely selling Pokemon at $2 a piece is the best way to make money, not selling an entirely identical game with the exception of a half dozen new Pokemon for $40. Haven't played the game since I was a kid, but I had both Red and Blue. A lot of people are buying both X and Y.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:45
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:You gotta catch them all.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:46
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The reason Nintendo hasnt gone hog wild on paid DLC is why i continue to give them my money. I hate DLC, and i refuse to buy it. Gimp the game i just paid $60 for so you can charge me another $15 for the feature that should have been included in the game? Nope, you can gently caress right off.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:51
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jhorphear posted:The reason Nintendo hasnt gone hog wild on paid DLC is why i continue to give them my money. I hate DLC, and i refuse to buy it. Gimp the game i just paid $60 for so you can charge me another $15 for the feature that should have been included in the game? Nope, you can gently caress right off. There is a reason that Nintendo's games hold up in value so well over the years. If WWE2K14 is going to be anything near what last years game was, it's going to be $60 at launch that has withheld content in the form of $20 DLC packs just to get the current roster. And I'll probably find the game a month later on Black Friday for $25, and get the DLC pack on sale for $10 again if I'm lucky on a PSN sale.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:56
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Astro7x posted:There is a reason that Nintendo's games hold up in value so well over the years. If WWE2K14 is going to be anything near what last years game was, it's going to be $60 at launch that has withheld content in the form of $20 DLC packs just to get the current roster. And I'll probably find the game a month later on Black Friday for $25, and get the DLC pack on sale for $10 again if I'm lucky on a PSN sale. I agree with this 100%. What about 5 years down the line when the developer decides running the servers that host the DLC isnt profitable anymore? You are forever stuck with a poo poo game that will not get any better. However, i can walk into my game archive and pull any nintendo game off the shelf and just pop it into a console and play. No downloading patches, no broken game play, just a good loving game.
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Oct 15, 2013 18:58
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jhorphear posted:I agree with this 100%. What about 5 years down the line when the developer decides running the servers that host the DLC isnt profitable anymore? You are forever stuck with a poo poo game that will not get any better. However, i can walk into my game archive and pull any nintendo game off the shelf and just pop it into a console and play. No downloading patches, no broken game play, just a good loving game. How often do you do this? That is, play a console game that came out over 5 years ago? I mean, I like the idea too and have cited it as a big positive, but when I'm confronted on that claim and asked how often it happens, I can count the instances on one hand. I'm not too worried about playing games in the intervening time between when the servers go down and the emulators are functional, though obviously that will be less likely going forward.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:04
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Jeffrey posted:How often do you do this? That is, play a console game that came out over 5 years ago? I mean, I like the idea too and have cited it as a big positive, but when I'm confronted on that claim and asked how often it happens, I can count the instances on one hand. I still play everything from my atari 5200 and up. Although i am probly not in the majority, but i play the hell out of my game collection. I enjoyed some Excitebike on my NES last night for instance.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:07
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jhorphear posted:I agree with this 100%. What about 5 years down the line when the developer decides running the servers that host the DLC isnt profitable anymore? Well it'd be a pretty weird setup to rely on the developer to run their own "DLC server" it's handled by the console maker on consoles with working internet. And those have had online servers running for 8-9 years straight and are expected to run straight up for another couple years at least. Anyway, by that time the warranty on the console is long expired and the console's online service is shut off. So now there's no reason not to mod the console in question and just grab that from a pirated source, or your own legit backup source assuming for some reason your original purchases were deleted by something else. Yeah sure it's technically against the law, whatever, but it's not like the content vanishes into the ether. Might I point out that Nintendo and Sega both had a lot of content gone forever in things like the like Satellaview, the Sega Channel, and other such things? Stopped being a problem by the time of the Dreamcast though. People have mirrors up for the Dreamcast to get the DLC available from that, and the same with the original Xbox's paltry selection of DLC. jhorphear posted:You are forever stuck with a poo poo game that will not get any better. However, i can walk into my game archive and pull any nintendo game off the shelf and just pop it into a console and play. No downloading patches, no broken game play, just a good loving game. Plus you make it sound like there aren't any Nintendo games that stopped working in part, when they have. Every game feature that relied on WiiConnect24 is dead for instance. And a lot of games really could have done with a patch or two to fix bugs. Plus Nintendo puts out tons of crap games too, you really can't deny that. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 19:11
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jhorphear posted:I agree with this 100%. What about 5 years down the line when the developer decides running the servers that host the DLC isnt profitable anymore? You are forever stuck with a poo poo game that will not get any better. However, i can walk into my game archive and pull any nintendo game off the shelf and just pop it into a console and play. No downloading patches, no broken game play, just a good loving game. Well there are patches every so often. The good thing is if it's especially a Pokemon game that has something messing it up they'll go out of their way to make sure you somehow have the ability to patch it. The Game Boy Advance generation in particular had a glitch that I think eventually had the in-game clock come to a standstill and it involved the berries you could grow or something. So every sort of Pokemon game or in-store distribution event they put out for the rest of the third gen I think let you hook up to it patch your original copy of the game.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:12
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The idea that Nintendo products are never broken and don't need patches and just work off the shelf guaranteed is funny in a WiiU thread.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:12
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Install Windows posted:Well it'd be a pretty weird setup to rely on the developer to run their own "DLC server" it's handled by the console maker on consoles with working internet. And those have had online servers running for 8-9 years straight and are expected to run straight up for another couple years at least. So you are saying i have to hack something i bought to get it to work properly if i want to play it outside of its life expectancy? Yeah, no. And my appologies if it came off like i was insistant that nintendo made games that never died. Not my intent. Games that require an online service to play are ok to die if their online service is shut down, that is expected. Most of the shovelware was not put out by nintendo, but third parties, and yes i agree there was way too much of it at the end of the Wiis life cycle.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:15
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Surlaw posted:The idea that Nintendo products are never broken and don't need patches and just work off the shelf guaranteed is funny in a WiiU thread. I never once said that nintendo games couldnt use a patch. Not to split hairs, but i said Nintendo, not third party. edit: So ill just leave it at that. I notice if i post more than a couple times in a thread i tend to catch a probate, so ill be walking away now.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:17
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jhorphear posted:So you are saying i have to hack something i bought to get it to work properly if i want to play it outside of its life expectancy? Yeah, no. You're going to have to hack it to use all your Nintendo games in their full capacity already bro. You already need to spoof things to restore WiiConnect24-tied functionality in various Wii games. The Wii already did have a DLC system, some Nintendo games did use that, you're going to have to spoof it or softmod your Wii to continue using those in a few years. In other words: you're kinda full of crap? Nintendo themselves know that patches and DLC are a necessity - that's why the Wii U and 3DS inherently support them.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:25
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There was a game that actually used WiiConnect24?
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Oct 15, 2013 19:30
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whaley posted:There was a game that actually used WiiConnect24? Animal Crossing: City Folk Mario Kart Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl Those are the big ones.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:EA could sell updated rosters for Madden for $2 but it turns out putting the updated roster in a brand new box and charging $60 works a lot better. They do change mechanics and add new features year to year, though. I'm not saying that it actually amounts to much, but it's not like that's the only thing they do.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:39
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Install Windows posted:You're going to have to hack it to use all your Nintendo games in their full capacity already bro. You already need to spoof things to restore WiiConnect24-tied functionality in various Wii games. The Wii already did have a DLC system, some Nintendo games did use that, you're going to have to spoof it or softmod your Wii to continue using those in a few years. I dont have to hack anything. I can play local multiplayer and not fuss with online. What Nintendo games had DLC? Im drawing a blank, but i cant think of anything ( except super luigi bros ). Also, you listed games that dont need Wii Connect to work. You can still enjoy the full game without it.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:45
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jhorphear posted:I agree with this 100%. What about 5 years down the line when the developer decides running the servers that host the DLC isnt profitable anymore? You are forever stuck with a poo poo game that will not get any better. However, i can walk into my game archive and pull any nintendo game off the shelf and just pop it into a console and play. No downloading patches, no broken game play, just a good loving game. This wilful ignorance of the video game industry is something I see coming from Nintendo fanatics pretty often in forums like NeoGaf. Do you honestly think anything not Nintendo-made is unfinished, bug riddled and sliced up into DLCs?
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Oct 15, 2013 19:46
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jhorphear posted:I dont have to hack anything. I can play local multiplayer and not fuss with online. What Nintendo games had DLC? Im drawing a blank, but i cant think of anything ( except super luigi bros ). Well by that argument you don't need to worry about hacking anything on consoles with full online services now then, dude. The 3DS Mii Plaza has had several major patches and since this summer has had DLC game unlocks in it for instance. You lose things like automatic ghost trading, inter-town automated messaging and the like. Those are unarguably part of the full game and they stopped working: again you can't claim those games are still functioning fully without saying that the games for other consoles will still be fully functioning.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:49
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jhorphear posted:What Nintendo games had DLC? Im drawing a blank, but i cant think of anything ( except super luigi bros ). Fire Emblem and Pikmin 3 (e: and NSMB2), off the top of my head. They're also thinking about it for Zelda Wii U. They're easing into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had DLC for more of their games than not in a couple of years.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:54
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Yeah, Nintendo has a had a very active dislike of DLC for a long time, but like so many other things they're being forced to change because DLC isn't really something they can keep ignoring.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:56
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Crowbear posted:Fire Emblem and Pikmin 3 (e: and NSMB2), off the top of my head. They're also thinking about it for Zelda Wii U. Also New Super Mario Bros. 2 on 3DS, and Mega Man 9 on Wii (IIRC this was the first game on a Nintendo console to have DLC). If I'm remembering right, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney on WiiWare required a DLC unlock for the fifth case.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:56
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univbee posted:Also New Super Mario Bros. 2 on 3DS, and Mega Man 9 on Wii (IIRC this was the first game on a Nintendo console to have DLC). If I'm remembering right, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney on WiiWare required a DLC unlock for the fifth case. All of the WiiWare Final Fantasy games had DLC from My Life as a Dark Lord, My Life as a King, Crystal Defenders and the After Years. Buying all of the DLC for After Years was the only way to play the whole game. Pretty sure I altogether paid $45 for that.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:19
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And note the differences The 3rd party games have actual parts of the games as DLC. An entire case from the DS release of PW. After Years being episodic. The levels and maps in mario and fire emblem are completely extra and aren't a part of the core game. Fire emblem's DLC was essentially some disgaea style grinding maps and some bonus maps with extra characters from other fire emblem games, and NSMB2 got challenge levels and retro levels. I trust Nintendo with DLC a hell of a lot more than I do anyone else right now.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:23
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Tyty posted:And note the differences Those aren't differences bud. You can't say that case from Phoenix Wright was an "actual part" while saying those levels in NSMB2 weren't, or that the Fire Emblem maps weren't.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:28
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Tyty posted:And note the differences Yeah, much of it comes from Nintendo being a game company first. They are never really thinking about how they can increase the profits of a single game. That's why their attempt on DLC for Mario Bros. U was basically making a standalone game that made all of the levels harder instead of just tossing some new levels up for $5 a piece or something. This is a double edged sword though since Nintendo will also value Balloon Fight or Urban Champion at $5 and not realize how dumb of a price it is. To them it's a game just like Zelda is a game. They don't really recognize game value is not equal.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:28
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Tyty posted:And note the differences
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Oct 15, 2013 20:36
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Geek U.S.A. posted:This is speculation at best. If you were not part of the production then you have no clue what constitutes as "actual parts of the games". After Years was released to cell phone users as episodes. The Wii Ware version included everything right on the download but it only allowed you to play the first two episodes. The rest were DLC locked. It was a finished game, downloaded finished, which you had to unlock through money to actually beat.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:39
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There are lovely third parties that absolutely try to nickel and dime people with DLC and cutting content and whatever else, but they would be trying to nickel and dime people even if DLC didn't exist. That does not mean that every company that isn't Pure Hearted Saint Nintendo is doing it. Some of the best content of this whole generation would not have existed at all if DLC wasn't a thing, and that makes it all worth it to me.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:41
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The problem with DLC is that it's so drat varied. You can't really justify it as "good" or "bad" but instead have to look at it in context. There's a lot of good DLC. There's a lot of lovely DLC which clearly includes content that was cut from the full game. There's a lot of abusive game design that requires DLC without strictly requiring it and there's cool DLC that legitimately adds extra content. There are $5 maps and $30 expansion packs. You can't put them all under the same umbrella.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:45
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:After Years was released to cell phone users as episodes. The Wii Ware version included everything right on the download but it only allowed you to play the first two episodes. The rest were DLC locked. It was a finished game, downloaded finished, which you had to unlock through money to actually beat. I wasn't talking about After Years but simply refering to his general claim of all Third Parties being sliced up into DLC.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:46
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Install Windows posted:Anyway, by that time the warranty on the console is long expired and the console's online service is shut off. So now there's no reason not to mod the console in question and just grab that from a pirated source, or your own legit backup source assuming for some reason your original purchases were deleted by something else. Yeah sure it's technically against the law, whatever, but it's not like the content vanishes into the ether. Except that most people have no clue how to do anything you just mentioned. Even the Twilight Princess Hack is a bit too much for most people. I can't even figure out how to run anything off a USB drive, and I like to consider myself pretty tech savvy. Paper Jam Dipper posted:This is a double edged sword though since Nintendo will also value Balloon Fight or Urban Champion at $5 and not realize how dumb of a price it is. I'm guessing that the odds of them selling more than 5x as many digital copies of Urban Championship by pricing it at $1 instead of $5 is highly unlikely in order to justify lowing the price that much on NES titles. If I have a poo poo sandwich for sale for $100 and somebody is dumb enough to buy it from me, I'm going to price it to get the most profit possible. Crowbear posted:There are lovely third parties that absolutely try to nickel and dime people with DLC and cutting content and whatever else, but they would be trying to nickel and dime people even if DLC didn't exist. That does not mean that every company that isn't Pure Hearted Saint Nintendo is doing it. What are you talking about specifically? I am all for DLC if it extends the life of the game and is truly made after the product has shipped. But when developers withhold content for Day 1 DLC packs that's just disgusting. That same content would have been made if DLC wasn't an option.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:47
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Astro7x posted:Except that most people have no clue how to do anything you just mentioned. Even the Twilight Princess Hack is a bit too much for most people. I can't even figure out how to run anything off a USB drive, and I like to consider myself pretty tech savvy. Well they don't need to. Since the DLC is going to stay on their systems long after the online services shut down, until they manage to physically destroy their system. But if you really wanted to still play those things and had destroyed your storage of rightfully purchased addons, you could get it back with mods then! (Or in all likelihood, just decide you don't particularly care about random DLC pack #45 for a 10+ year old game, which might even have been rereleased for a fresh wallet milking on a successor system)
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Oct 15, 2013 20:56
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Install Windows posted:Well they don't need to. Since the DLC is going to stay on their systems long after the online services shut down, until they manage to physically destroy their system. But if you really wanted to still play those things and had destroyed your storage of rightfully purchased addons, you could get it back with mods then! It's also pretty common for companies to release a year or two down the road a version of the game with all DLC included.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:01
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:How ever will Mario Kart compete with Myth Makers Super Kart GP 2: Angry Birds Edition? Everyone has smartphones, no one has Wii Us.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:45
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Astro7x posted:That game looks like poo poo, and will probably play like poo poo when you have to tilt the iPhone to turn. CTR is the second-best kart racer ever behind Sonic Transformed. 
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Oct 16, 2013 00:28
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Boiled Water posted:Everyone has smartphones, no one has Wii Us. Everyone has 360s and PS3s but Sonic Transformed and Rayman sold better on the Wii U. Probably because people who want those type of games do own a Wii U. You know, like good quality kart racers. Angry Birds Go!'s competition is other smartphone games, not the Nintendo Wii U. Hence why nobody is saying, "Wow, Angry Birds Go! That's gotta compete with Mario Kart 7 for the 3DS since a smartphone is a handheld!" because it would sound really loving stupid to compare a lovely Rovio game to MK7. But that's because the 3DS sells well. Wii U isn't so suddenly every piece of trash someone finds online must be competing with it.
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Oct 16, 2013 04:19
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The WiiU is competing with the PSP, and losing. A terrible handheld from 2004.
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Oct 16, 2013 04:24
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