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A lingering headache is very likely a mild concussion, you should take at least a week off and then see how you feel
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Oct 17, 2013 00:39
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Mechafunkzilla posted:An art where you can neither practice the techniques against full resistance nor are the people you're defending from actually trained in the attacks they're using? Sign me up! Yeah I think I'd prefer being taught 'these are the most effective ways to punch', followed by 'these are the most effective ways to protect yourself against these punches'. It should really be the same for the knife defense stuff. First off it would probably be good to learn how to best shank someone, because that's what you're going to have to defend against if the need arises. None of those big lazy untrained arcs that are easy to intercept. It would suck thinking you have the skills only to find yourself woefully unprepared.
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Oct 17, 2013 04:42
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Then of course you're putting yourself in a position where you're learning how to stab a dude in the belly. Personally I like martial arts as a sport and not a means of real world self defense for a lot of different reasons. One reason is that I like going home and visualizing myself defending against an armbar rather than visualizing myself stabbing some guy in his neck.
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Oct 17, 2013 04:47
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Goffer posted:Yeah I think I'd prefer being taught 'these are the most effective ways to punch', followed by 'these are the most effective ways to protect yourself against these punches'. Yeah, I did a self defence seminar for shits and giggles that was put on by some police. You had to be 18 to sign up because they showed some video footage of people being stabbed in prison. Their advice was on the off chance you actually see someone pull a knife you run like gently caress, if you can distract them by throwing a drink, a handful of change or something like that to hasten your escape, all the better. Their general rule of thumb was it's likely to happen before you even realise, then they moved into the what-to-do if you're in a toilet cubicle type deal and can't run away. Which amounted to gripping the arm holding the knife as tight as you can and inflicting as much truama on them as possible. Smash their hand against a wall, use a wrist lock head butt them. It was scrappy stuff but even doing their "live" training with a rubber knife coated in cheap lipstick to show when you got cut I got hosed up all but one out of about 10 go rounds. It's a pointless pursuit if you want to learn to look after yourself do anything with live sparring or rolling.
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Oct 17, 2013 05:17
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Novum posted:Then of course you're putting yourself in a position where you're learning how to stab a dude in the belly. This. While it's pretty unlikely that I'd ever need to toss and perhaps choke a dude, that's something that I can at least picture happening in a reasonably plausible hypothetical scenario. A situation where it's a appropriate to stab a dude, where that wouldn't be considered escalating the conflict to an extreme (homicidal) degree, is so vanishingly unlikely that I'm basically visualizing myself as Jason Bourne at that point. The damage resulting from good martial arts / self defense training should be scalable to the situation, and true tooth and nail life and death scenarios are the least likely thing you'll encounter, and so kind of the least important.
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Oct 17, 2013 09:39
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Novum posted:Then of course you're putting yourself in a position where you're learning how to stab a dude in the belly. My thinking on this was from a Krav Maga perspective - where you're already learning techniques too deadly to apply full force or during sparring, adding some knife fighting in there wouldn't make it any worse. Specifically for military training I don't see anything wrong with it, a soldier should probably know how to use a knife, plus you'd quickly learn the most effective ways of evading it (running away). I guess you could get some guys into the gym who already know how to do it and practice defence with them instead. Not that it'd be great and I'm not advocating it, but I would have thought it would be the most logical progression if you're meant to be seriously learning Israeli Military Techniques. I'm not sure I agree completely with you on the armbar stuff though, I mean half the holds and chokes you learn are one step away from breaking arms/breaking necks/causing immobilizing amounts of pain, it's not soooooo different.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:45
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Goffer posted:My thinking on this was from a Krav Maga perspective - where you're already learning techniques too deadly to apply full force or during sparring, adding some knife fighting in there wouldn't make it any worse. Specifically for military training I don't see anything wrong with it, a soldier should probably know how to use a knife, plus you'd quickly learn the most effective ways of evading it (running away). I guess you could get some guys into the gym who already know how to do it and practice defence with them instead. e: Actually definitely do Krav Maga. Novum fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 07:01
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BlindSite posted:Yeah, I did a self defence seminar for shits and giggles that was put on by some police. You had to be 18 to sign up because they showed some video footage of people being stabbed in prison. Their advice was on the off chance you actually see someone pull a knife you run like gently caress, if you can distract them by throwing a drink, a handful of change or something like that to hasten your escape, all the better. I teach civilian police staff self defense and some of the stuff we are required to teach is laughable, especially when you consider many of these staff are 50+ years of age and out of shape. We don't actually teach any knife defense mainly because the staff work in a custodial environment and the hope is that the attacker won't have any weapon's unless they've concealed a small blade in which case the training is basically "run the gently caress away try and shut the cell door behind you".
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Oct 18, 2013 07:17
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Goffer posted:learning techniques too deadly to apply full force or during sparring, This is the problem-you're not actually learning these techniques. How can you say you know how to do something if you've never done it?
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Oct 18, 2013 07:43
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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There's this thing that you can apply chokes and locks without using full force and even when we do, we don't really finish, because otherwise the other person DIES or WE BREAK THEIR BONES or something, right? But the techniques are still considered pretty valid for choking people out (which means they are dead if you want them to die), or injuring them to the point they can't walk or shake your hand. But we never finish them to that point, we just fight hard to get those positions. That's BJJ, right? Pretty much what MMA grappling is about too. Just thinking or actually typing out loud here, but by the same token, it should be possible that you can train blade techniques without actually killing or stabbing anyone, but the techniques might be still effective solid stuff to learn. (I don't practice any and probably never will, so I'm not trying to justify how leet my knife club is or something here.) Like the Dog Brothers ya'll? I honestly think that their stuff could work in real life, mano to mano, with sticks or blades, even though what they practice is too deadly to train with full force and real knives.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:07
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If that was me I'd just throw my weapon at their face and double leg them, then when they are clutching their face I would grab their weapon, toss it away, and wrestlefuck them until they're gassed and crying.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:09
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Ligur posted:Like the Dog Brothers ya'll? I honestly think that their stuff could work in real life, mano to mano, with sticks or blades, even though what they practice is too deadly to train with full force and real knives. I actually did dog brother style full contact stick and knife fighting in Hawaii around 10 years ago (god I feel old). The one thing I learned about knife fighting is that you will 1st AD posted:If that was me I'd just throw my weapon at their face and double leg them, then when they are clutching their face I would grab their weapon, toss it away, and wrestlefuck them until they're gassed and crying. This is pretty much how a lot of the stick fights went, swing the sticks just long enough for someone to close the gap and go to the ground. azreal fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 23:11
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azreal posted:I actually did dog brother style full contact stick and knife fighting in Hawaii around 10 years ago (god I feel old). The one thing I learned about knife fighting is that you will This I do not doubt at all, the stupyfing knife "defences" from youtube or whatever, in which you grab the hand of someone swinging a slow looping downwards arc with a pointy item, don't reflect reality much. This has been often discussed in this this thread too, and the subject is a target of many links and laughs. azreal posted:This is pretty much how a lot of the stick fights went, swing the sticks just long enough for someone to close the gap and go to the ground. Yeah what seemed to happen when the Dog Brothers got some guys with BJJ around. edit: all this said, everyone, don't loving go to some Krav Maga class and think you can learn the deadly art of knife defense and/or attack over there if you don't grapple as gently caress and stick each other in the face with plastic knives and fencing masks on and count how many times you got dead every three seconds. Ligur fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 23:24
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The only decent knife-fighting thing I've seen involves grappling and immediately trying to control the attacking wrist with both hands, even if you have to give up position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18 All in all it seems like if you're close quarters with someone trying to kill you with a knife, you're pretty much hosed unless you are a good MMA grappler, and if you are you might only get stabbed a few times.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:38
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Goffer posted:a Krav Maga perspective - where you're already learning techniques too deadly to apply full force or during sparring
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Oct 19, 2013 03:06
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Gaz2k21 posted:I teach civilian police staff self defense and some of the stuff we are required to teach is laughable, especially when you consider many of these staff are 50+ years of age and out of shape. My place of work has had a few self-defense seminars, with a focus on dealing with aggressive, troubled youth and psychiatric patients, and the physical portions are mostly concerned with, at its most basic, closing the distance and getting control over someone, either alone or working as a team- with the usual finish being in a position where you can safely put on a pair of handcuffs, usually with the person on their stomach. And yeah, a lot of these things I can see myself doing, maybe, but I doubt my 45 year old coworker is going to be able to do an arm drag variation to a standing back control in the heat of the moment- regardless of their physical shape. Also, just to add onto the weapons bit; in a situation where someone has a weapon, especially a bladed one, first order of business is locking them or yourself the gently caress in and calling the cops. They will show up with a six man squad and riot shields and do their job. Then again, they can also show up with six man squads when they dump previously detained and troubled patients onto us, so... Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 07:39
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Bohemian Nights posted:My place of work has had a few self-defense seminars, with a focus on dealing with aggressive, troubled youth and psychiatric patients, and the physical portions are mostly concerned with, at its most basic, closing the distance and getting control over someone, either alone or working as a team- with the usual finish being in a position where you can safely put on a pair of handcuffs, usually with the person on their stomach. I don't know; if you do daily armdrag drills and back control drills (standing) then, if they're in a squad of 2-3 per unruly patient, that should totally work. The patient will reach out, one does an armdrag to the back and both then control. Seems like one of the safer and more useful techniques to teach people who deal with unruly customers (As a bouncer I've used and seen it used a lot in bar-situations, that and the standing arm triangle)
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Oct 20, 2013 21:09
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Novum posted:a Krav Maga perspective - where you're already learning techniques too deadly to apply full force or during sparring 
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Oct 21, 2013 01:37
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1st AD posted:If that was me I'd just throw my weapon at their face and double leg them, then when they are clutching their face I would grab their weapon, toss it away, and wrestlefuck them until they're gassed and crying. Hah I did some stick fighting one night with my BJJ instructor who did Kali I think for a few years before he got fully into BJJ and he did the same thing we clapped sticks twice then he leg kicked me and dumped me with a double leg.
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Oct 21, 2013 06:16
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I just found a recreational Police Judo club to supplement my BJJ and its wicked. Very big on safety first, so no goonery, and they're all about learning low-risk takedowns for Police use, so I think it will translate well to BJJ instead of doing it at a regular club and learning the competitive ruleset. Though the instructor has some odd rules, for example he doesn't allow chokes (which I imagine has to do with the whole Policing angle, since you usually can't apply guillotines and such as a cop). Plus they do ground work too so I still get in a good workout doing some rolling (though I did get called a cheater for doing a torreando pass cause I stood up, which makes sense). And theyre obviously familiar with defending kimuras, americanas and armbars because I couldnt hit anyone with it. Its really taught me how bad I am at armbars and triangles from guard. I need to get back to the basics of drilling them. Im setting people up really well (pushing arm across center line of my body), but I've never hit/finished an armbar from guard in two years now of BJJ I realize.
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Oct 22, 2013 19:40
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swagger like us posted:I've never hit/finished an armbar from guard in two years now of BJJ I realize. This is like, my only successful attack from the bottom. Everything else I do is just pretending like I could ever finish an omoplata or kimura and hopefully spook them into moving where I want them to.
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Oct 22, 2013 19:45
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swagger like us posted:(though I did get called a cheater for doing a torreando pass cause I stood up, which makes sense) I believe this is a judo rule. In a comp I think if you stand out of guard, they reset both people. Dumb but thats how judo works. I had the same issue when I tried judo because I stand pass most of the time. quote:Its really taught me how bad I am at armbars and triangles from guard. I need to get back to the basics of drilling them. Im setting people up really well (pushing arm across center line of my body), but I've never hit/finished an armbar from guard in two years now of BJJ I realize. Because thats such a bread & butter technique anyone with a decent amount of experience is going to be really hard to finish with a straight up armbar or triangle just because they're exposed to it almost constantly. Try your armbars/triangles on some true beginners and you'll prob hit 9/10 but you'll see a huge drop against guys with even 6 months experience. You've either got to be very very good at the sequence (ie drill it into the ground) or have another go-to variation(s) that gets you the sweep/finish you're looking for (and then drill that sequence a lot).
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Oct 22, 2013 19:58
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Syphilis Fish posted:I don't know; if you do daily armdrag drills and back control drills (standing) The odds of this happening in a public hospital with a security staff that has an average age of 40, who work in (at most) three man shifts, where most of the time is spent doing work that's not related to wrestling patients, this isn't going to happen. Of course, preparing for those 5% of violent altercations that we experience from time to time is important, and drilling is a part of that, but doing it every day is unrealistic, and so the techniques you ultimately drill on has to be as simple as absolutely possible for it to be even remotely plausible that the technique will see use. How we're hopefully gonna do it is, we'll promote a couple of people to be responsible for holding semi-regular internal seminars, so we don't have to bring anyone from the outside in, and I'm trying to jockey myself into position for that. Should be a shoe-in since I already have instructor experience, but we'll see!
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Oct 23, 2013 12:12
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Bohemian Nights posted:The odds of this happening in a public hospital with a security staff that has an average age of 40, who work in (at most) three man shifts, where most of the time is spent doing work that's not related to wrestling patients, this isn't going to happen. I understand and that is awesome; what I was trying to say was that maybe the armdrag to the back is one of the best things to drill in such a situation; it's easy and pretty useful as it really teaches them to get behind a person. Maybe even if you only do it once a week/two weeks they'll be fine. six year olds learn it quick enough.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:44
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I know this has been asked before, but I haven't posted here since I started training back in March or so and I can't remember. Does anyone have any recommendations for a BJJ book? Obviously, just train, but I have a bad memory and going over things while not in class could help me out a lot. Is there some BJJ bible or something else you guys like?
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Oct 24, 2013 18:56
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I know this has been asked before, but I haven't posted here since I started training back in March or so and I can't remember. Does anyone have any recommendations for a BJJ book? Obviously, just train, but I have a bad memory and going over things while not in class could help me out a lot. Is there some BJJ bible or something else you guys like? BJJ University is the one I always see recommended. I've got it and its pretty decent but I have an extremely hard time absorbing BJJ techniques through books so I can't really give a resounding opinion one way or the other. http://www.amazon.com/Jiu-Jitsu-University-Saulo-Ribeiro/dp/0981504434
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Oct 24, 2013 19:12
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Kekekela posted:BJJ University is the one I always see recommended. I've got it and its pretty decent but I have an extremely hard time absorbing BJJ techniques through books so I can't really give a resounding opinion one way or the other. That's the one I was looking at. I understand that I might not be able to pick up techniques from a book since you really have to get the feel for it, but it would be nice resource for ideas or things to try while rolling. Thanks for the suggestion btw.
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Oct 24, 2013 19:47
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BJJ university is the closest thing to a bible, but if you have specific questions there is prob a great reference out there somewhere. For example, I had a lot of success learning X-guard with marcelo's X-guard book. He starts with x-guard setups and goes through the core sweeps and their most common variations. It really helps you build a full game since basically any counter you're going to need is in there somewhere and you can start to understand the sequences. Dave Camarillo's guerilla bjj is pretty nice if you are looking to improve your attacks. he gives you a lot of submission attack combinations and enough images and drills that you can get it down. Its not super esoteric either so you can grab a brown/black belt and they could prob help you understand anything you can't get out of the book.
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Oct 24, 2013 20:13
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That's one of my main problems. I'll get into full mount (rarely) and then.... poo poo, what do I do now? I might pick up both books.
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Oct 24, 2013 20:30
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Pennywise the Frown posted:That's one of my main problems. I'll get into full mount (rarely) and then.... poo poo, what do I do now? I might pick up both books. Sometimes just having two good go-to attacks from any position is better than mentally listing off everything you could possibly do.
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Oct 24, 2013 23:38
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I really want to get back into a MA, but I am currently out of shape and some back issues making me not so flexible anymore. I have taken Tae Kwon Do and a bit of Hapkido in the past and did some Bak Fu Pai in CA about 13 years back. I am thinking I would like Judo or also looking at Aikido. Anyone have any advice, I would really appreciate it. I am in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia and have not found any Judo facilities yet and just one Aikido school that has some good history locally.
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Oct 25, 2013 00:10
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Some new judo research: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/publishahead/Olympic_preparation_in_Brazilian_judo_athletes__.97618.aspx http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/publishahead/The_Physiology_of_Judo_Specific_Training.97616.aspx
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Oct 25, 2013 02:23
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Xguard86 posted:Dave Camarillo's guerilla bjj is pretty nice if you are looking to improve your attacks. he gives you a lot of submission attack combinations and enough images and drills that you can get it down. Its not super esoteric either so you can grab a brown/black belt and they could prob help you understand anything you can't get out of the book.
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Oct 25, 2013 03:55
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Pennywise the Frown posted:That's one of my main problems. I'll get into full mount (rarely) and then.... poo poo, what do I do now? I might pick up both books. I keep a training diary which some people think is rediculous but it helps cement things in my mind with technique. I think more writing down the technique and bits I stuff up and do well helps commit them to memory which helps when I'm rolling. I dunno why it just does. Might be an idea to help you out when you find stuff that works, and remind you to ask for pointers on poo poo that doesn't. I go to a good club where the blue belts love helping people out with technique they're struggling with. So i tend to go to open mat work outs and ask them to help me drill poo poo I've written down as sucking at. It's improved my game under side control where I was really struggling leaps and bounds.
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Oct 25, 2013 05:14
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I've got both of Dave Camarillo's books and Guerilla BJJ is much better. His other book has detailed descriptions of all his flying attacks and some interesting bits of information about integrating Judo into your BJJ, but Guerilla Jiujitsu is much more cohesive overall. Andre Galvao's Drill to Win is also a really good book but it's probably not what you're looking for.
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Oct 25, 2013 10:38
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I mostly like Guerilla bjj because most books show techniques, especially attacks, in a vacuum when in reality you're probably going to need to combine stuff to be truly effective. I like that he gives you the base to start and then how to launch in several directions and keep countering until you land something. Obviously you pick most of that up with live instruction but its nice to have a reference to review or maybe show a variation not common at your home gym.
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Oct 25, 2013 15:56
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:Some new judo research: Is there a way around the pay wall for these things? Is the NSCA journal available through most university databases?
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Oct 25, 2013 16:25
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BlindSite posted:I keep a training diary which some people think is rediculous but it helps cement things in my mind with technique. I think more writing down the technique and bits I stuff up and do well helps commit them to memory which helps when I'm rolling. I dunno why it just does. Might be an idea to help you out when you find stuff that works, and remind you to ask for pointers on poo poo that doesn't. We have a 42 year old white belt at our place who I just saw lying on the mat scribbling in a notebook. He just won a gold medal at a tournament (near Chicago I think). So whatever he's doing is working and working well.
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Oct 25, 2013 16:53
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I just moved down the street from MMA Institute, has anyone heard anything about it? I once emailed them and asked them about their tuition rates, but they asked me to come in and check the place out. I don't know why they can't be up front about that. By the by, I've been looking at Bullshido again lately, and I honestly miss the days when it was more about knocking hucksters like Sammy Franco and Jerry Peterson.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:03
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Halloween Jack posted:I just moved down the street from MMA Institute, has anyone heard anything about it? I once emailed them and asked them about their tuition rates, but they asked me to come in and check the place out. I don't know why they can't be up front about that. There's a couple very influential business seminar/models regarding martial arts schools, and one of the main tenets is to do everything you possibly can to get prospective customers to take an intro class before you mention how much tuition is. The majority of schools do this now, regardless of their quality; it's becoming close to an industry standard.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:12
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