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Doc Block posted:this x1000 you only get unreadable messes of angle brackets / colons if you dont use typedefs/using to factor poo poo out properly its no different than people making 3000 line functions or classes with 300 methods or 10k line source files, dont blame the language bc some people arent able to use the tools it provides to decompose things into manageable parts
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Oct 6, 2013 22:22
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Zlodo posted:you only get unreadable messes of angle brackets / colons if you dont use typedefs/using to factor poo poo out properly well you seem to have forgotten that this is the terrible programmer safe zone, not the "great programmers who know how to restrain themselves from abusing language features to hell and back" hideout also defending terrible languages that offer a million different, mutually inconsistent ways to do things by saying "well dont do it in those millions of different ways then, just stick to one consistent subset of the language, DUH!" is a terrible and lazy cop-out, not all parts of any given program are always written by or under the control of the same person you know and even ostensibly "well-designed" and widely-approved C++ libraries like boost are in many ways hideously freakish nightmare creations of hack heaped upon hack and hundreds of #define's to bend the language to fit some madman's design paradigm
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Oct 6, 2013 23:47
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PrBacterio posted:
if this is wrong why bother programming?
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Oct 6, 2013 23:57
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so, apparently some non-devs (but still in sperglandia, obv.) read my commit messages/comments for fun. am I the worst or almost the worst?
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Oct 16, 2013 14:21
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wat
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Oct 16, 2013 14:38
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Brain Candy posted:so, apparently some non-devs (but still in sperglandia, obv.) read my commit messages/comments for fun. am I the worst or almost the worst? caring enough to write good commit messages is a good thing
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Oct 16, 2013 14:41
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prefect posted:caring enough to write good commit messages is a good thing i know i only pretend to be a professional, but i'm influenced by the thought that pros don't let poo poo get to them. sometimes i construct comments out of left over loathing & bile, which i'm sure is always pleasant to read and informative! so yes, caring is a thing. but i'm still not sure if the best commits should be as dry as the sahara. or maybe as merciless.
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Oct 16, 2013 14:59
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don't hold out on us!
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Oct 16, 2013 16:35
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welp don't poast while stupid, that's my comment on things
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Oct 16, 2013 18:51
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can anyone here recommend an app for sketching out class diagrams and shiz? im architecturin' my first not-absolutely-trivial project and drawing out possible structures w/ pen n paper feels slow
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Oct 18, 2013 15:42
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omnigraffle. dia if you're poor
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Oct 18, 2013 15:48
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what about for real oses
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Oct 18, 2013 16:09
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coffeetable posted:can anyone here recommend an app for sketching out class diagrams and shiz? just make classes. u wont figure out how bad ur design is until you try to use it so spend at least 10x as much time coding as designing
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Oct 18, 2013 16:29
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ofc this asdumes u hace a decent ide and can refactor easily. if not then just give up now
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Oct 18, 2013 16:30
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pen and paper, but nomnom is right just code and found out what's really broken
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Oct 18, 2013 16:38
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Bloody posted:what about for real oses there are a variety of UML designer snap-ins for eclipse. try a few and see which you hate least as for UML vs pen and paper: there are definitely times i would have liked to have started using an API with a nice UML diagram to explain it. but i don't know whether UML diagrams will help you design the api BEFORE it exists, i have never tried
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Oct 18, 2013 16:39
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Bloody posted:what about for real oses Posting Principle posted:dia if you're poor
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Oct 18, 2013 16:41
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Nomnom Cookie posted:just make classes. u wont figure out how bad ur design is until you try to use it so spend at least 10x as much time coding as designing Plastic Snake posted:pen and paper, but nomnom is right just code and found out what's really broken Posting Principle posted:omnigraffle. dia if you're poor
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Oct 18, 2013 16:54
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vs has a class diagram tool built in.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:05
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is it worth learning actual uml ever or am i good just drawing boxes and lines on a piece of paper and losing it before the day's over
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Oct 18, 2013 18:45
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drawing either on paper, whiteboard, or visio is better than uml cause if ur doing uml you could just write the code instead. generally I just think up an overall concept and maybe whiteboard it a bit but then I start building interfaces and models in code because it works better for me.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:56
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just do boxes if you're doing that kind of upfront design. uml should be autogenerated from your code once you have a stable api
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Oct 18, 2013 18:59
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i am bad at memorizing the implementation of things, like binary trees
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Oct 18, 2013 19:55
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Werthog 95 posted:is it worth learning actual uml ever or am i good just drawing boxes and lines on a piece of paper and losing it before the day's over sequence diagrams are good
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Oct 18, 2013 20:34
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coffeetable posted:dia it is cacoo.com is pretty ok, libreoffice draw can read Visio files but I'm not sure I would want to try creating something in it.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:35
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BONGHITZ posted:i am bad at memorizing the implementation of things, like binary trees theres no reason to memorize the implementation of common algorithms and data structures and I think if someone asked me in an interview "hey code up a mergesort" i'd probably get up and walk out
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Oct 18, 2013 21:31
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If someone asks me how to sort a list my answer would beJava code:
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Oct 18, 2013 21:33
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Shaggar posted:theres no reason to memorize the implementation of common algorithms and data structures and I think if someone asked me in an interview "hey code up a mergesort" i'd probably get up and walk out people actually do this
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Oct 18, 2013 21:33
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Shaggar posted:If someone asks me how to sort a list my answer would be what if that's the answer they're actually looking for :o
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Oct 18, 2013 21:34
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isn't that just a stones throw from planging
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Oct 18, 2013 21:35
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thats what it should be. if someone starts asking you to implement a sort like that either they think thats something you should do irl which means they're terrible and you should stay away or (and this is more likely) they read up on "TOP 10 PROGRAMMING INTERVIEW QUESTIONS ASKED BY GOOGLE!!!" and simplified one of their stupid questions. both are signs you might not want to work there.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:36
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USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:isn't that just a stones throw from planging writing your own sort is p-langing.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:37
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if they ask it as a way to "prove" you know the language you'll be working in and you don't have code available for them for some reason and/or you weren't working in it lately, it might be acceptable I guess, assuming you understand the basic lines of mergesort.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:38
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Shaggar posted:theres no reason to memorize the implementation of common algorithms and data structures and I think if someone asked me in an interview "hey code up a mergesort" i'd probably get up and walk out lol if u cant rederive mergesort withou thinking lol if you have to think about how to implement binary trees in your language data Tree a = Leaf | Branch a (Tree a) (Tree a) supremacy but yes if ur not fresh out of college and someone asks u this leave
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Oct 18, 2013 21:39
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I mean algorithms strike me as being a lot like cryptography where you should never actually roll your own but you should understand how they work for the most part if not knowing merge sort what about understanding big o and so on
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Oct 18, 2013 21:39
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you should understand if its stable (and what that means) and how fast it is and maybe some of the performance gotchas related to special states of the object before its sorted. anything else is out of scope (unless you're interviewing for a job writing a language, I guess)
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Oct 18, 2013 21:48
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USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:I mean algorithms strike me as being a lot like cryptography where you should never actually roll your own
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Oct 18, 2013 22:48
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lol ok where's that from
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Oct 18, 2013 22:49
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i had to implement quicksort for a take-home coding test as part of interviewing for my current job. did a basic median-of-three thing cause thats what i could recall from algos class five years ago then i argued with a lead dev about javas handling of null as the sole actual param for a varargs param then they changed the test because it was "too easy". probably my qsort impl looked like what was on wikipedia. except i didnt look anything up to make mine  edit: the new test is some async thing that no one has gotten 100% correct. which is about right for doing async w/java Nomnom Cookie fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 22:52
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Soricidus posted:You can't even just implement a well-known algorithm yourself because you can't trust the compiler. this is a funny troll
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Oct 18, 2013 22:54
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