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Safety Factor posted:Did we play the same game? I won't deny that multiplayer was a lot of fun. But that was only when the thing worked. The matchmaking and peer-to-peer set-up made most games a laggy mess. Targets frequently became invincible or teleported around. I know I was shot through plenty of walls when I played. If it had worked properly people would probably still be playing it. The survival mode managed to avoid most of the same issues, but it was limited to 4 players and not 16 like the regular multiplayer. It was less likely to get stuck playing with someone with a bad connection which would manage to slow the game down for everyone. Can't deny that. Stability would definately have helped. But when the host was decent, it was a blast. In regards to my previous question on lore/fluff. It's more that a lot of you seem to have a lot of knowledge from outside the official books on the Horus Heresy (unless I'm mistaken) and it would be nice to read ahead to see what happens further on.
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Oct 18, 2013 17:22
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:That scene was great but I hated how abruptly it ended. The sword breaks and it cuts to the aftermath where we're told Angron died on his way back to his home planet. Every single one.
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Oct 18, 2013 17:24
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Arquinsiel posted:To be fair, before they started frantically retconning the only reason they knew Angron was dead was he didn't show up anymore. It took all of the Grey Knights to take him down. Nah, it was just a few hundred. It was just that all of the Grey Knights at Armageddon were deployed, not all that existed in the whole Imperium. That would have been thousands and probably overkill.
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Oct 18, 2013 17:26
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Isn't he just banished to the warp for a timeout not dead?
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Oct 18, 2013 17:29
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Until the retcon there were only a hundred or so. It was a single company. Of course at the time they were also the only second founding chapter, so a LOT has been retconned in the last 20+ years.
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Oct 18, 2013 17:31
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If the warp hates Necrons does that make Necrons the natural ally of the Grey Knights?
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Oct 18, 2013 17:33
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edit: Leaving a window open too long makes for some weird posts. Yep Space Marine the game was certainly a wonderful dress-up spacebarbie game, I put a lot of time into producing as close to a preheresy imperial fist as I possibly could. lenoon fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 17:34
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Blacktoll posted:If the warp hates Necrons does that make Necrons the natural ally of the Grey Knights? Nope, the Grey Knights hate xenos just as much as the rest of the Imperium. lenoon posted:Yep, I put a lot of time into producing as close to a preheresy imperial fist as I possibly could. May want to check your link - can't see anything.
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Oct 18, 2013 17:38
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You can't kill a greater daemon outside of the immaterium. You can banish them for a thousand years if you destroy their corporeal form though.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:08
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Note that a thousand years in the warp may not correspond to a thousand years in the matterium. Games Workshop accepts no liability if daemons find their way back out of the warp on or around the same time that a new model needs to be pimped.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:14
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Visions of Heresy (Collector's Edition) is available. Only $250 - get your copy today!
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Oct 18, 2013 18:19
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It got retconned to 100 year and a day I think. So, Angron could very well come out of the warp now.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:21
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Arquinsiel posted:To be fair, before they started frantically retconning the only reason they knew Angron was dead was he didn't show up anymore. It took all of the Grey Knights to take him down. Yeah I figured he's not really dead being a demon prince and all, that's not what bothered me. It's the cut from some guy shouting "Angron prepare for judgment" to the next morning where everyone's dead and we're told yeah that guy totally killed him it was sweet as hell. Arquinsiel posted:Until the retcon there were only a hundred or so. It was a single company. Of course at the time they were also the only second founding chapter, so a LOT has been retconned in the last 20+ years. When was that retconned and how? Emperor's Gift gives a specific number (109 or 119 iirc) out of which about 14 survive. Bear Retrieval Unit fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 19:20
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:When was that retconned and how? Emperor's Gift gives a specific number (109 or 119 iirc) out of which about 14 survive. Actually, that reminds me. Are they all still psykers? I don't even know anymore.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:57
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Yeah, all psykers.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:16
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I think emperors gift is like that because there's already written fluff about the death blow etc etc - I definitely read in an old WD and I think inferno! Magazine back in the day, about a two thousand word story about the grand master who kills Angron and it is indeed awesome. Anyone else remember? It was partially told from the perspective of a guardsman who spent the story literally setting himself and Logan grimnar, who was beside him (ended with something like 'that's heroism, kiddo'). I would imagine that you can't just rewrite the battle as t would be plagiarising an earlier writers work, even if GW own the IP as a whole, they couldn't get away with letting their authors rewrite exact sections of someone else's work.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:36
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Yeah, all psykers. And some pariahs doing some secret duty at the base
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Oct 18, 2013 21:23
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lenoon posted:I think emperors gift is like that because there's already written fluff about the death blow etc etc - I definitely read in an old WD and I think inferno! Magazine back in the day, about a two thousand word story about the grand master who kills Angron and it is indeed awesome. ADB talks about it in the afterward actually. Its more because the book ended up not being about the Battle of Armageddon but about the grander scope of what was happening and who was involved. More focus on the battle would have detracted from other works and disrupted the tale being told there. Which is fine with me really. Yeah, a demon fight would have been cool, but you can find plenty of those in the rest of the bolter porn out there. The story he ended up telling, about duty, loyalty, pride, and honor, and how they weigh so heavily on a young man (which age aside is what Hyperion was in maturity, experience, and mental outlook) was much more engaging. Particularly when contrasted with Betrayer, where the main characters have similar weights and demands, but inverted flaws
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Oct 18, 2013 21:31
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Aye you're right about that - I still wonder what the rules are as regards people rewriting existing fluff. It seems alright the majority of the time, but in areas of specific detail it must be pretty tricky to work out who owns what.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:41
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Nobody "owns" the fluff - GW has made it pretty clear that everything and nothing is canon. All the stories we read are flawed accounts of the events and nothing is the "real" explanation - it's just bits and pieces. It sucks, but that's the stance GW has taken. I suspect they implemented the policy in order to allow themselves the loophole of being able to go back and retcon things that they didn't think were handled correctly, but I think all it does is create confusion for the reader and dilutes the world.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:57
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berzerkmonkey posted:Nobody "owns" the fluff - GW has made it pretty clear that everything and nothing is canon. All the stories we read are flawed accounts of the events and nothing is the "real" explanation - it's just bits and pieces. It sucks, but that's the stance GW has taken. Like say, if someone wants to write about the Alpha Legion impersonating Grey Knight and massacring a convent of Soristas to create discord between the ordos of the inquisition?
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Oct 18, 2013 22:01
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The thing I loved about the Space Marine game is that the single-player character is an Ultramarines captain who is basically a goddamned World Eater in disguise. Warp-resistant with an angry-meter and he regenerates health by brutally murdering people with a chainsword? Tells other Ultramarines to pull their head out of the Codex and think? He's the most awesome Ultramarine ever.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:05
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^^^^ The angry meter is possibly the most fun thing about that game. berzerkmonkey posted:Nobody "owns" the fluff - GW has made it pretty clear that everything and nothing is canon. All the stories we read are flawed accounts of the events and nothing is the "real" explanation - it's just bits and pieces. It sucks, but that's the stance GW has taken.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:15
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berzerkmonkey posted:Nobody "owns" the fluff - GW has made it pretty clear that everything and nothing is canon. All the stories we read are flawed accounts of the events and nothing is the "real" explanation - it's just bits and pieces. It sucks, but that's the stance GW has taken. For practical purposes, the BL editors own the fluff, except when codex writers want to add a new unit or blurb that retcons poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:15
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I guess if the battle is already covered leaving it out makes sense. I also kinda get not wanting to overshadow the other stuff. I guess that because Emperor's Gift was my first 40k book I hadn't yet had my fill of bolter porn and wanted more. Khizan posted:Tells other Ultramarines to pull their head out of the Codex and think? He's the most awesome Ultramarine ever. And then he gets ratted out to the inquisition by the other Ultramarine. I think I'm the only one who liked the Chaos fights in Space Marine. I was getting a bit tired of slaughtering Orks by that point so they were a welcomed change. Didn't really have to use cover that much either. Chaos IG die to one bolter round and have glowing green eyes to make them noticeable from a distance, once you pick them off the other chaos enemies aren't much of a threat (except for those goddamn Havocs with their homing plasma cannons).
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Oct 18, 2013 22:27
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berzerkmonkey posted:Nobody "owns" the fluff - GW has made it pretty clear that everything and nothing is canon. All the stories we read are flawed accounts of the events and nothing is the "real" explanation - it's just bits and pieces. It sucks, but that's the stance GW has taken. I was thinking a copyright issue rather than a fluff consistency one. Writing the final battle of Armageddon would require literally rewriting another author's stuff - is that allowed? It wouldn't be like the Golgotha book which is an adaptation of about five lines, but a short story instead. In copyright terms I know the IP is owned by GW but are the sections developed by individual authors theirs? Or do they belong to GW?
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Oct 18, 2013 22:46
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It's all GWs. Their standard contract transfers all rights of anything you make that is relevant to the company to them. It's actually shady as gently caress.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:00
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Arquinsiel posted:It's all GWs. Their standard contract transfers all rights of anything you make that is relevant to the company to them. It's actually shady as gently caress. What? No it's not, it's standard operating procedure for licensed fiction. It'd be dumb to do it any other way.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:04
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Doing it any other way ends up with things like Malal where a good idea and a potential to make money cannot be used.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:10
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Eh, I mean the contract itself, not the specifics of doing poo poo for hire and then not owning it. I haven't worked for them since 2004 and technically I'm still bound by it.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:07
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So if you write a piece of fiction and they decide down the line to include it in a codex or some other form, with a total rewrite, by another author, there's nothing you can do? That seems lovely as hell - it's their IP, but the work, provided its original, is yours.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:10
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The contact also gives them power of attourney to sign it over to them. Bear in mind I was a redshirt. Like I said, shady as gently caress.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:13
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Ah all those series where there's a couple of different authors after the first successful one suddenly make more sense! And it's also why eventually we'll have 'rRavenor returned: returned' and atrocious Ghosts books written by kyme.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:19
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I really don't understand your complaint, Arquinsiel. What did you do and what do you consider shady?
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Oct 19, 2013 00:51
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I'm not seeing any shadiness, either. You know you're working with someone else's ip. Kinda makes sense that they own what you wrote for them, no matter how long ago.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:56
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I worked in a shop selling toy soldiers. If I were to ever (IE: from now until the end of time) create anything that GW felt they could make money off of then they have the power or attourney to sign it over to themselves with no payment neccesary so that they would be the sole owners thereof. This is a standard part of any contract that GW give employees. Wouldn't stand up in court were they to try it now, but it's in the contract.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:58
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Arquinsiel posted:Not entirely accurate. GW owns the fluff and changes it with every new codex to sell more toys. VanSandman posted:I really don't understand your complaint, Arquinsiel. What did you do and what do you consider shady? Arquinsiel posted:I worked in a shop selling toy soldiers. If I were to ever (IE: from now until the end of time) create anything that GW felt they could make money off of then they have the power or attourney to sign it over to themselves with no payment neccesary so that they would be the sole owners thereof. This is a standard part of any contract that GW give employees. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 01:00
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Arquinsiel posted:I worked in a shop selling toy soldiers. If I were to ever (IE: from now until the end of time) create anything that GW felt they could make money off of then they have the power or attourney to sign it over to themselves with no payment neccesary so that they would be the sole owners thereof. This is a standard part of any contract that GW give employees. Is that supposed to cover if you made some awesome special figurine by hand that they wanted, or if 5 years later you wrote a cowboy romance novel and since you worked for GW at one point they could sue you and take it? Either way it sounds hilariously illegal.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:04
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berzerkmonkey posted:Yeah, I don't think there is any way anyone could enforce anything like that. Any lawyer who wrote that into a contract would obviously be smoking crack. Also, if you signed a contract that says anyone owns anything you ever do in perpetuity, you were perhaps partaking of the pipe yourself...
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Oct 19, 2013 01:11
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Arquinsiel posted:I worked in a shop selling toy soldiers. If I were to ever (IE: from now until the end of time) create anything that GW felt they could make money off of then they have the power or attourney to sign it over to themselves with no payment neccesary so that they would be the sole owners thereof. This is a standard part of any contract that GW give employees. This is a pretty standard clause in any employment contract though but the degree to which it's enforceable depends on what you actually did. If you say designed a a new type of paint or invented a new way to cast toy soldiers you'd have a case. Less so if you just wrote some fanfiction which they've then taken as canon.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:11
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