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Woden posted:Comms of Valor are BTC, old Hearts from tokens are BTC and don't stack. I guess this means zero updates to the Cannith challenges since the main legacy use for them would be gone.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:34
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Woden posted:Edit: Wow, 17 comms for an EH Web of Chaos / Sschindylryn / Demon Web saga. Hopefully placeholder. If they don't fix things drastically so I'm not required to do a poo poo load more work to TR I think I'm gonna have to jump ship for neverwinter or one of the other D&D type mmos.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:39
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Neverwinter is a piece of poo poo, not remotely worth your time honestly. It's cool for the first 10... maybe even 20 levels, it's super bad after that. If that's not a placeholder value, I'll wait and see how much they want for an Iconic Heart TP wise, if it's more than 500-1k, then yeah I doubt we'll be doing much. That said they've been pretty good about providing an ingame way to get current TR hearts, so I can't see them changing it too much. Only reason we haven't seen Tokens of the Twelve drop from newer quests is that they clearly wanted to phase them out. They don't even have the ability to TR on the test server, so I'd be pretty shocked if it wasn't full of placeholder poo poo right now.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:22
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I quit Neverwinter for DDO. That should tell you everything you need to know about Neverwinter.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:05
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I've been playing neverwinter with my girlfriend for the last month and it's made me miss the feeling of ddo so much. It's prettier, yes, but the quests are repetitive and the dungeons aren't engrossing or unique at all. It's a simple game without any depth and virtually zero endgame. While great to introduce to someone inexperienced with mmos, it's certainly not going to satisfy someone who is familiar with them. All it has going for it is the d&d branding.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:28
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Heh, I played Neverwinter until 60 and then grouped a bunch (as cleric). So you think playing DDO clerics is masochistic? Think again. It gets much much worse. It's really not a D&D game except in minor lore though. Leveling is fun in a treadmill kind of way and there are some good modules made by players (better than 90% of the other content, which is already 300% better than the other Cryptic games' content). But yeah it made me miss DDO and actual puzzles* and character decisions and builds. *which DDO is great for if you have a really poor memory and like figuring things out again and again (if you want, which I sometimes do, especially if there are any light puzzles in the quest). Neverwinter: you cannot set your starting stats and roll between 3 main ones (17 str, 18 wis and 15 int? or maybe 15 str, 15 wis and 18 int? and permutations in between, but not lower than any mentioned values) and can't really screw your build over. That says enough about the D&Dness. After DDO, uh, I'd probably go to The Secret World or back to single player D&D stuff. Noricae fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 05:05
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Rolling for stats? If they're only keeping one thing from DnD why the hell would you pick probably the worst thing, would rather they brought back THA0 god drat.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:35
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You don't even roll in Neverwinter, there's like 5 or 7 arrays you pick from. They're completely static. But yeah the agro system in the game was completely hosed at launch, they fixed it kind of... but yeah it's just a super shallow blatant cashgrab bullshit. There's like 4 looks for any given character 1-60.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:35
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Yeah, they provide the illusion of rolling but no benefit of customization of stats at all. Best of both worlds.  You can also put points only in the three stats they think are ok for your class. But yeah, there are many other issues, but it starts one minute into character generation basically 
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Oct 19, 2013 08:18
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Noricae posted:Yeah, they provide the illusion of rolling but no benefit of customization of stats at all. Best of both worlds. The big reason to play Neverwinter is the user content. There are some real gems in the foundry (but isn't as much content being added as would be nice). The only capped dude I have in there is a Great weapon fighter. I tried cleric but gave up on it because pretty much any class is more fun to play than a cleric. Eh, I suppose if all else fails I could just go back to reading books and only playing MMOs to mess with people.
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Oct 19, 2013 08:45
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So, how useful are Greater Tokens of the Twelve? I did my first VoN run today and ended up with one, had a look on the wiki what they're good for but I don't know what the best thing to do with one is. Also, the actual quest reward from the turn in...I expected more than just a selection of lovely greens. But hey, guess I'll definitely get my Raider's Box now.
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Oct 20, 2013 01:30
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Best thing I've wanted them for was to make a Master's Gift: http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Master%27s_Gift (voice of the master exp% augment).
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Oct 20, 2013 02:15
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Yeah, either that or trading them 1:1 for regular epic tokens to use for TR hearts. The Master's Gift augment is fantastic though, I hate swapping in the Voice and it insures you get the bonus experience for all optionals too without having to give up your trinket slot. Which is great because there's too many good trinkets from 5+ when you're TRing. Raid loot isn't special until your 20th run, otherwise its just as if you completed a normal long quest of that level. Oh also if I didn't post it before, we have confirmation that there will not be any increase to epic level experience requirements for any kind of reincarnated character. DemonMage fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 07:20
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Still no word about the saga grinding, master trollage whoever thought to post that stuff up on a Friday afternoon. What's a good place to slot masters gift for lowbies? Guessing craftable item. Woden fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 09:02
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Yeah we use craftable rings for it.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:07
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I was planning on putting it into goggles - not a lot of choices there, esp for arcane lives, and there are a few decent named goggles that have slots now (Goggles of perception maybe, Intricate field optics, dream visors are pretty easy to farm). Anything to free up the trinket slot though! I leveled a few lives with my bf's character tagging along (dual-boxing) and the difference in exp really added up. That is, I never ever remembered Voice on optionals and only remembered it at quest's end half the time at best, and the other character was a good, oh, nearly two dots into a level ahead of me by the end. I still always forget though, especially running epic content. edit: Vvv Yeah, jesus the drop rate on that is abysmal. Noricae fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 10:08
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I've gotten really bad at remembering to put my voice on lately. I usually run Sustaining Symbiont (because it's the best trinket that I have), and I inevitably forget to switch it out. I'd love to get the trinket from the early Shadowfell questline, it's basically the 5% xp bonus plus 40hp.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:38
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Game_Whino posted:Eh, I suppose if all else fails I could just go back to reading books and only playing MMOs to mess with people. Come play The Secret World with us. It's pretty much the only MMO I've enjoyed as much as DDO. It's not strictly a fantasy setting, but anything to stop you playing Neverwinter.
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Oct 20, 2013 14:16
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Brain In A Jar posted:Come play The Secret World with us. It's pretty much the only MMO I've enjoyed as much as DDO. It's not strictly a fantasy setting, but anything to stop you playing Neverwinter. That game has such horrible loving combat.
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Oct 20, 2013 18:01
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A friend and I are going to try out DDO together and I was wondering if you all had any duo suggestions? We're probably going to start free or maybe VIP. He likes rogues and I was thinking that I would do the same for a few levels then move into cleric, but we're open to most roles. Thanks guys.
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Oct 21, 2013 10:13
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Rogue is not bad paired up with a cleric, but they're significantly less powerful when they have agro. If you're doing VIP then he can do some sort of rogue/monk and use quarterstaves which would probably give him a good leg up since it keeps his damage pretty high even with agro.
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Oct 21, 2013 10:31
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You can't really go wrong if you have one person playing a cleric in a duo. Fighter/rogue could also work for your friend, but without 32 point builds you might find yourself a bit short on key stat points. Clerics, I believe, are better off not multi-classing, especially if you want to be an effective caster/healer.
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Oct 21, 2013 10:52
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I was going to pick up the Rogue levels for UMD, but is that not so much an issue? Neither of us a really dead set on anything so I'd really appreciate duo ideas that will keep us self sufficient and enjoying ourselves.
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Oct 21, 2013 11:12
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Cleric/2 monk is still a solid choice, but you have to be careful of stretching yourself too thin stat wise there too. Having low strength when you don't have items/tomes to make up for it and being at constant Medium burden is irritating if rarely ever life threatening. You lose 2 spell penetration (again hurts a new player more), and a couple largely useless spell slots. You do lose out on Transcendence which hurts a little, but the Light core spells are weak anyways in the end so going Dark and not getting that capstone doesn't hurt much. It's really something you're better off with as a veteran player, but it's something to consider as a new player. I'd probably just recommend going with Caster Cleric for new players. With the caveat that I mention in the thread, I'd rush for Holy Smite before dipping into Radiant Servant, doubly so with a rogue friend as it blinds which means Sneak Attacks. And you want UMD as a cleric, but you don't need to dip into rogue for it. Without great gear you won't be using Teleport scrolls regularly until closer to 20, but in the end you'll have plenty for any of the useful spells you want to use without taking rogue.
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Oct 21, 2013 11:14
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Thanks, DemonMage, I just started reading that thread.
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Oct 21, 2013 11:20
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As a cleric, you probably won't have so much need for UMD (unless you have a hankering to cast arcane spells for some reason). UMD is mainly for things like "hey, I'm not a caster, but it'd be real nice to use this scroll/wand of healing/raise dead/curse removal/etc. Clerics get all that as spells, plus they bypass the UMD requirement for divine scrolls/wands by virtue of being a cleric. The only other reason you'd really want UMD is to bypass alignment requirements on weapons for whatever reason. Make a cleric lawful good and your problems go away! I've personally had the most success with being a melee class - as long as you've got HP, you can do unlimited damage. Also, I'm not so well suited to playing a caster. That said, if you do want to play a caster, Artificer are excellent all-rounders. Artificers are able to do traps like a rogue, get the same HP, but they get better ranged attacks through their repeating crossbows, buffs, a selection of offensive spells, bonus feats and can generally handle a little bit of everything in some fashion, without being spectacular at any of it. Only downside is you'll have to pay Turbine Points to unlock them even as a VIP, and if you play a Warforged one you can heal yourself (but a cleric won't do such a great job of healing you); if you play as a non-warforged one then you can't heal yourself but clerics have a much easier time healing you. From my experience, warforged artificers are far more common than non-WF, but both are absolutely viable. If you know you'll be always grouping with a cleric, then any non-WF race will be fine. Fighters are pretty hard to go wrong with, but they can be incredibly boring to play. They are definitely effective at what they do though, and their Past Life feat is pretty handy. Same goes for Barbarians. Rogues are good too, but they need someone to keep the heat off them to be at their most effective. You probably don't want your healer to also be your tank. Monks are superb, but you really need to have at least 34 point builds, if not 36, to get the best out of them. Tomes too. Druids I haven't really tried, but I've seen some pretty awesome ones running around. They can heal (though not as well as a cleric), shapeshift, and do offensive spells. Probably more offensively oriented, both melee and spell-wise, than a cleric, with weaker defensive buffs. Have to be neutral in some fashion though, which means you have to choose between having access to Good weapons, or Lawful/Chaotic ones. Paladins are kinda like a mix between clerics and fighters, no bonus feats but they do get some unique abilities that you can't get in any other way, like Divine Grace, which make it worth considering splashing 2 levels of paladin with 18 of cleric. Pure paladins are great against evil/undead creatures, and average against everything else, but they're usually pretty hard to take down. Conversely, they can also have problems with damage output, so you wouldn't really rely on one to carry you through a tough spot. Sorcs/wizards are great if you know your spells, and can get your DCs high enough. Probably not great for first lifers though, because your hp will be super low without the right gear and that's kind of a problem, but wizards do get some really nice options to increase their survivability so I'd roll one of those over a sorceror. Favoured Souls are like the sorceror version of clerics, except you need 4 of the 6 stats which makes it really difficult for first life characters. Bards have some really nice buffs and abilities, but are kinda fragile at times. I don't have much experience with them, they're not a very common class to see played. Rangers are versatile, get good HP, high fort/reflex saves, and qualify for all the two weapon fighting/ranged combat feats for free which is a godsend and lets you skimp on dex which is handy for first life characters. Their spellcasting is kinda gimmicky though beyond the buffs. tl;dr - Clerics are the most self-sufficient class. Pick either a meatshield class, or a high dps class with decent hp, to pair with them and rock everything. While traps are not such a huge deal once you get past level 15 or so, up until then they can make your life really, really frustrating in some quests. If you're worried about that at all, go cleric/rogue or cleric/artificer and use other people/mercs as your sacrificial lambs. Edit - Listen to DemonMage more about the cleric stuff than me, I don't know 1/10th as much as he does. That said, I've never used a Teleport scroll in my life and I don't seem to miss out on much because of it. It's a convenience, to be sure, but hardly a necessity. They don't save *that* much time.
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Oct 21, 2013 11:35
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I'd stick with true neutral alignments unless forced to lawful for class reasons to avoid alignment based damage (it's noticable, especially anti-good damage). So UMD for all! But yeah, clerics don't really need it much. The other main use I have for UMD on a cleric (other than teleport) is blur/displacement. I also found my artificer much more self sufficient, even as a human artificer (so no repair) because of the ranged aspect and higher BB damage. Then again my cleric is /3monk soooo... upclose and personal clerics require a lot of button mashing. More importantly, no one is adding my artificer to their group randomly every 15 minutes. But yeah, if going cleric, don't multiclass unless you have a plan - usually monk as a plan, and have played a bunch of classes pure to see what they can do (which as a cleric is a ton!). If you already have traps covered, you won't get much out of a rogue as a cleric (sure, evasion with a piss poor reflex save until high levels, at which point you can get evasion from epic destinies if you need it). So: boost your saves as much as you can instead (not using feats). I wish Bards would get more buffs; it's the second class I really wanted to play but it's so painfully unbalanced to solo with or duo with any other melee.
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Oct 21, 2013 18:47
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Earning Hearts of Wood Post U20. The short of it is that it'll probably be pretty reasonable. And you can still buy heroic hearts with Tokens of the Twelve, though the system is still very much deprecated.
DemonMage fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 01:23
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm set on the cleric and now I just have to talk to my friend when he's free. edit: My buddy is leading towards fighter to complement my choice of cleric. I sent him this build, does it seem solid? I started looking for fighter/rogue builds because I feel like we're lacking trap and lock skills, but I can't really find anything. I read some mention of 18/2 fighter/rogue being good, do any of you have builds like that? Rainbow_Horse fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 01:40
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Comms of valor can only be spent on hearts though right? They're still going to be a PITA to farm in that case, tokens/comms are starting to feel like the old leveling sigils.Noricae posted:I wish Bards would get more buffs; it's the second class I really wanted to play but it's so painfully unbalanced to solo with or duo with any other melee.
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Oct 22, 2013 04:41
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Woden posted:Comms of valor can only be spent on hearts though right? They're still going to be a PITA to farm in that case, tokens/comms are starting to feel like the old leveling sigils. How so? They're specifically designing them so that you don't have to spend a ton of time to get a Heroic Heart, and Iconics/Epic hearts take a little longer to get (since you spend more time doing Epic Saga capable quests). If you're running on EN only it'll probably feel pretty grindy, but doing EH isn't that hard and EE/TE is viable at 28 if not sooner. Of course it's possible they could gently caress it up and make it so you need to run all EE saga-counting quests 6 times to get a single Iconic Heart, let alone an Epic one, but that doesn't jive with what we've seen of the general design philosophy, they're lovely coders (to be fair to them, they're working on a mess of a codebase that's 10+ years old) not malicious.
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Oct 22, 2013 04:46
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Woden posted:Comms of valor can only be spent on hearts though right? They're still going to be a PITA to farm in that case, tokens/comms are starting to feel like the old leveling sigils. The enhancement pass took my pure lvl 25 bard from being pretty good to loving awesome. Warchanter + LD is god drat awesome. Also you can get all the warchanter stuff and still get spellsong trance.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:17
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Rainbow_Horse posted:I started looking for fighter/rogue builds because I feel like we're lacking trap and lock skills, but I can't really find anything. I read some mention of 18/2 fighter/rogue being good, do any of you have builds like that? Woden posted:The biggest issue I had with bards was getting groups on the same page as you. Need to group up for songs, not have retards cleave groups of fascinated mobs etc., once you get it down though I found them to be pretty solid. Similar DPS to a paladin but with better healing,
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Oct 22, 2013 05:26
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Noricae posted:My bard is also not pure so I'm missing out on all the nicer perks until I TR (I really need to, but I am mourning the multiclass options of 4+ yrs back to be honest). This doesn't make any sense what so ever to me. There's vastly more multiclass options now than there has ever been in the game, let alone when capstones were relatively new.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:54
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DemonMage posted:This doesn't make any sense what so ever to me. There's vastly more multiclass options now than there has ever been in the game, let alone when capstones were relatively new.  And want it in Warchanter so I can stop hopping around scroll healing. And while I'm dreaming, I want it at level 16 bard 
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Oct 22, 2013 06:05
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DemonMage posted:How so? They're specifically designing them so that you don't have to spend a ton of time to get a Heroic Heart, and Iconics/Epic hearts take a little longer to get (since you spend more time doing Epic Saga capable quests). If you're running on EN only it'll probably feel pretty grindy, but doing EH isn't that hard and EE/TE is viable at 28 if not sooner. Of course it's possible they could gently caress it up and make it so you need to run all EE saga-counting quests 6 times to get a single Iconic Heart, let alone an Epic one, but that doesn't jive with what we've seen of the general design philosophy, they're lovely coders (to be fair to them, they're working on a mess of a codebase that's 10+ years old) not malicious. Tokens had an opportunity cost with augments, I forgot about the XP tokens from sagas so the same is true of comms when you look at the xp you're losing, guess it should be fine. And what I mean about leveling sigils they were an arbitrary block to get you to buy stuff from the store to allow your character to progress(or go grind), hearts feel the same way. TRing is simple character progression for a lot of people.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:15
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I'd be happy with TRing being completely free, it's a little late for that though. No way the bookkeepers are going to let them completely cut off a solid revenue stream. [Late Edit] Also not having destinies yet is a big deal Noricae, as a non-Heal caster you shouldn't be scroll healing usually, Empower Healed Cocoon will get you by the vast majority of the time. For the rest you can just use Empower Healed Cure Critical. DemonMage fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 06:35
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Yeah, definitely. Ok I'll stop bitching about bards until I reach 20+. :S I always thought the TR barrier was a strange design decision - how much more income would they get from xp boosts or similar from more people TRing and how much more active would servers be? It's easier to get players to drop tiny amounts of points constantly than a heart from the store.
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Oct 22, 2013 07:23
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Yeah exactly, 1.5k or whatever TP is a lot and I'd never pay it. I do pay for augs and stuff because 150tp or w/e feels like nothing. Guess the bean counters know what they're doing though, because those Ottos boxes and the like seem popular. Heal scrolls are still uber, they get rid of a ton of bad effects some of which will just eat up a cocoon before it does anything special. Spending SP on heal seems wasteful if you have cocoon and some cures though, when I see myself getting a heal for 4k or the like I just shake my head. Woden fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 07:35
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I had a guy with 16 paladin levels hitting me with 350+ cure serious heals the other day. That was pretty drat nice considering how low the base heal for that is.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:10
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