|
Godholio posted:It seemed like they were going to try to take it somewhere, then decided to kill it. They got the news they were cancled midway through filming season 2, so they had to condense a ton of time in order to have the satisfying conclusion that is Augustus taking his throne. The Jewish community in Rome and Isreal in general were goign to play huge parts, and to be honest, I would have lost a lot of interest if it turned into "And now here comes Jesus to tell all these terrible people what is really up, yay Jesus!"
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 16:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 10:30 |
|
|
I thought it was supposed to be griping about that weird new sect of cannibal Jews living in the sewers? Edit I can't tell if that sounds more like Jews or LARPers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
Sulla got a happy ending! For him. Everyone else was either shocked or dead by then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The murder of Caesar and the death of Antonius & Cleopatra are the two highlights, and they did those well. 300 years of gradual evolution into a Christian Empire does not have the same . . . dramatic points. Marcus Aurelius kicking rear end on the frontier and maybe the psychodrama of Hadrian would be ok tv. You could probably get a good series out of Ricimer and his scheming and backstabbery and the end of the Empire and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
The reign of Justinian and Theodora would be a good one; I'm sure HBO would use Procopious's version of things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 18:54
|
|
|
I didn't mind the Jewish subplot of Rome, but I really don't know how they could have worked in Jesus because no one would have cared about him until at least fifty years after Augustus' death. I seriously doubt before then there was anyone in Rome going, "boy, you hear about this new itinerant preacher in Jerusalem!  "
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
They could have followed some 'minor' character like titus pullo dealing with daily life and finding jesus and becoming a revolutionary. I just wanted more titus pullo and lucius varinus. So who would be christian converts at the time btw? Was there a political and economic dimension to the rise of christianity at the time? (Im just asking this because from what I understand busdhism was both a problem to the ruling class and such a sucess amongst people because it sought to do away with the cast system/worldly posessions etc in a certain way) ughhhh fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
ughhhh posted:They could have followed some 'minor' character like titus pullo dealing with daily life and finding jesus and becoming a revolutionary. I just wanted more titus pullo and lucius varinus. I'm glad they didn't get to do anything about Jesus. I'm sure they would have made it a bigger deal than it was historically. Also, Titus Pullo would probably be about 70 by that time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
how did they wipe their butts in ancient times
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
Hands, sponges, sticks. Edit The Chinese used paper! Truly the most evolved kingdom. euphronius fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
Which was more looked down on- wanking or whoring?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Hands, sponges, sticks. More specifically, here's a short little article explaining how the public toilets worked.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
bobthedinosaur posted:Which was more looked down on- wanking or whoring? Nobody gave a poo poo about either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 22:58
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Nobody gave a poo poo about either. Was prostitution itself looked down upon as an especially dishonorable trade like it is now? Or was it just a thing that people did for money like anything else?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Was prostitution itself looked down upon as an especially dishonorable trade like it is now? Or was it just a thing that people did for money like anything else? Looked down on, but legal for the most part. I dunno if Augustus changed that with his social reforms or not...I'd guess no. edit: No he did not, and it was licensed trade until the 4th century, at least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 23:18
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Was prostitution itself looked down upon as an especially dishonorable trade like it is now? Or was it just a thing that people did for money like anything else? The Romans had a complicated relationship with prostitution. Yeah, it was kind of dishonorable - but dishonorable the way being an actor was dishonorable. As a member of a "performing" profession, you were automatically a little shady. Just being a female actress was more like being a stripper than it was like theatre, and there wasn't much distinction between acting, stripping, and prostitution (part of the reason the whole performing class was poorly regarded, I imagine). On the other hand, the Empress Theodora was both a stripper/prostitute and one of the most powerful women to ever live in the Roman Empire, so draw your own conclusions about how much anybody actually cared in the end. Edit: Reading up on Theodora I ran across this little blurb about chariot hooliganism that I thought was great: Wikipedia posted:Adopting the color of their favorite charioteers was a way fans showed their loyalty to that particular racer or faction. Many of the young men in the fan clubs, or factions, adopted extravagant clothing and hairstyles, such as billowing sleeves, "Hunnic" hair-styles, and "Persian" facial hair. There is evidence that these young men were the faction members most prone to violence and extreme factional rivalry. I'm picturing guys with long hair, huge bound beards, and proto-jerseys. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Oct 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2013 23:44
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The Chinese used paper! Truly the most evolved kingdom. Wiping the Imperial butt is the first attested use of paper. There was some ledger from an imperial household that listed a huge quantity of toilet paper in multiple colors and scents. They didn't start writing on it a while after that. Thick, shaggy, fluffy experimental paper was bad for writing but great for wiping butts. If only modern China was so generous with the TP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
ughhhh posted:(Im just asking this because from what I understand busdhism was both a problem to the ruling class and such a sucess amongst people because it sought to do away with the cast system/worldly posessions etc in a certain way) You mean in Asia? Buddhism never took off in the west, as you might imagine. It popped around the Greek and Roman world a little bit before vanishing. I don't know much about Buddhism's history, but from what I know of its doctrine it sounds like trouble for the ruling class. Confucianism on the other hand is entirely about subservience and oppression, so no shock that the ruling elites in China eventually went whole hog on making that the way of things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 01:51
|
|
|
Also with so many many slaves, who needs prostitutes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 02:13
|
|
|
Oppression is too much for Confucianism. Legalism was about oppression, Confucianism is about ~harmony~. A lot of Confucian parables are about how morality is more important than law.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 02:58
|
|
|
ughhhh posted:They could have followed some 'minor' character like titus pullo dealing with daily life and finding jesus and becoming a revolutionary. I just wanted more titus pullo and lucius varinus. Or they could go the I, Claudius route and have Caligula claim to be this new messiah the Jews say is coming. Did he actually do that or was that way too far below his radar to even notice?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 03:37
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:You mean in Asia? Buddhism never took off in the west, as you might imagine. It popped around the Greek and Roman world a little bit before vanishing. You can also totally gently caress around with Buddhism and get, e.g. the Dalai Llama. "I'm a Bodhisattva who has reincarnated because I possess infinite wisdom and also I want to help you achieve enlightenment very badly because you're very ignorant. Now, because you're so ignorant, you must do what I say, trust me, it's good for you." I mean, as a reproduction of a ruling system, the whole 'take a child, groom it until he's ready to rule' is... interesting at the very least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 07:38
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:I'm picturing guys with long hair, huge bound beards, and proto-jerseys. Even better: The Hepthalites (Eastern Huns) that the fans emulated had mullets. Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Oct 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 09:26
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Wiping the Imperial butt is the first attested use of paper. There was some ledger from an imperial household that listed a huge quantity of toilet paper in multiple colors and scents. They didn't start writing on it a while after that. Thick, shaggy, fluffy experimental paper was bad for writing but great for wiping butts. Grand Fromage posted:You mean in Asia? Buddhism never took off in the west, as you might imagine. It popped around the Greek and Roman world a little bit before vanishing. They aren't exactly mutually exclusive either, since Confucianism and Legalism were more philosophies of Right Living than religious, so they worked on a separate layer from the more spiritually inclined stuff like Taoism, Buddhism, etc. That said, anyone knows much about the religions of the ancient era? We've had plenty on Christianity, Buddhism, Greek gods and Roman gods, but what about the other pantheons/belief systems? How and when did they prosper? veekie fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Oct 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 09:50
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Also with so many many slaves, who needs prostitutes. Most prostitutes in ancient Rome actually were slaves.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 13:40
|
|
|
It always seemed weird that they explicitly made Augustus a sadist in Rome. I liked it way better when he was kind of apathetic towards sex. It was satisfactory and took care of his biological desire, but he had more important poo poo to be doing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 16:25
|
|
|
veekie posted:That said, anyone knows much about the religions of the ancient era? We've had plenty on Christianity, Buddhism, Greek gods and Roman gods, but what about the other pantheons/belief systems? How and when did they prosper? Some of the most interesting religions are the ones we don't know much about. Not because we're dumb, but because the rites were supposed to be secret, and nobody talked. These "mystery religions" were salvation-oriented, but different from Christianity. Where in Christianity you are "saved" (have a better afterlife) based on something you believe, mystery religions were (like most ancient religions) outside of the mind: you were saved by something you saw or took part in. The Eleusinian Mysteries were one of the oldest and "biggest" of these mystery religions. For as long as it went on (it was probably a Mycenean cult to Demeter), there's a ton we don't know about. Some people suppose there was a psychedelic agent involved to give people these consistent religions experiences when they were initiated (ergot is a popular culprit), but people today still have religious experiences without drugs, so I doubt it was needed, especially since they were fasting and as subject to mass hypnosis as anyone. People digging for clues look to the Homeric Hymn to Demeter for coded evidence of the Eleusinian Mysteries. The other big one, later, is Mithraism. We know more about it because it was more widespread -- the Roman army brought it to Europe -- to the point that it rivaled Christianity in popularity. There are hundreds of sites throughout Europe, including full temples, and mosaics, and meeting places. It can sound a bit like a combination of Freemasonry and Scientology -- secret handshakes, expensive feasts, rising up through levels of initiation. Mithraism kind of comes out of nowhere, and is apparently a hodgepodge of Eastern-sounding things and images, and once it hits Rome, the central image is of Mithras killing a bull, because . . . reasons, I guess. The entire cult lives and dies within (but entirely separate from) the pagan Roman Empire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
E: Would it be a stretch to consider the bull-slaying portrayal of Mithras as being related to the Zoroastrian mythos of the cow/bull that everything comes from? Not to put words in the mouths of ancient Romans, but you could pretty easily say Mithras' bull-slaying represents the concept of a harvest-oriented portrayal of the sun god. I always saw the Roman take on prostitution as a breach of decorum more than anything. It wasn't that you were banging someone other than your spouse, it was that you were paying for it and ought to be able to control your urges long enough to at least put some emotional effort into it. E: in terms of being a john/jane, that is. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Also with so many many slaves, who needs prostitutes. Poor people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:21
|
|
|
The Entire Universe posted:I always saw the Roman take on prostitution as a breach of decorum more than anything. It wasn't that you were banging someone other than your spouse, it was that you were paying for it and ought to be able to control your urges long enough to at least put some emotional effort into it. What about for single men/women? Was it as terrible a thing to do? That leads to my next question, what were relationships like in the Roman empire?  Were you expected to get married off in your teenage years?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:27
|
|
|
quote:The Eleusinian Mysteries were one of the oldest and "biggest" of these mystery religions. For as long as it went on (it was probably a Mycenean cult to Demeter), there's a ton we don't know about. Some people suppose there was a psychedelic agent involved to give people these consistent religions experiences when they were initiated (ergot is a popular culprit), but people today still have religious experiences without drugs, so I doubt it was needed, especially since they were fasting and as subject to mass hypnosis as anyone. People digging for clues look to the Homeric Hymn to Demeter for coded evidence of the Eleusinian Fun fact: both Alcibiades and a philosopher named Diagoras ”the atheist” were tried and sentenced to death for mocking the rituals. Both of them legged it to escape their trials, but executing people for mocking religion was apparently a thing in Athens.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:38
|
|
|
bobthedinosaur posted:What about for single men/women? Was it as terrible a thing to do? Probably similar - being a total philanderer and whoremonger was frowned upon because it wasn't in line with the traditionally stoic Roman persona. Didn't Augustus exile his own daughter to some island because she set a bad example by acting out and partying all the time, making a mockery out of the concept of the Princeps Civitas? FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:49
|
|
|
sullat posted:Fun fact: both Alcibiades and a philosopher named Diagoras ”the atheist” were tried and sentenced to death for mocking the rituals. Both of them legged it to escape their trials, but executing people for mocking religion was apparently a thing in Athens. It wasn't just that he'd made fun of the mysteries -- it was also that he was accused of mutilating Athens' hermai, ruining their faces and chopping off their erections. Maybe not a capital crime today, but still kind of disturbing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
homullus posted:It wasn't just that he'd made fun of the mysteries -- it was also that he was accused of mutilating Athens' hermai, ruining their faces and chopping off their erections. Maybe not a capital crime today, but still kind of disturbing. I thought that he was being falsely accused of that so he could be tried in absentia while sailing to Syracuse?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 23:29
|
|
|
Things were going badly for Athens, and all of a sudden some rear end in a top hat broke all the penises off of every Hermes statue in the city, drat right somebody's going to pay for it. And of course, Alcibiades had already made some enemies who would love to see him gone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
homullus posted:The Eleusinian Mysteries were one of the oldest and "biggest" of these mystery religions. For as long as it went on (it was probably a Mycenean cult to Demeter), there's a ton we don't know about. Some people suppose there was a psychedelic agent involved to give people these consistent religions experiences when they were initiated (ergot is a popular culprit), but people today still have religious experiences without drugs, so I doubt it was needed, especially since they were fasting and as subject to mass hypnosis as anyone. People digging for clues look to the Homeric Hymn to Demeter for coded evidence of the Eleusinian Mysteries. This line caught my eye in the hymn. quote:Demeter did not take part in this, she of the golden double-axe, she who glories in the harvest.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 23:50
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Things were going badly for Athens, and all of a sudden some rear end in a top hat broke all the penises off of every Hermes statue in the city, drat right somebody's going to pay for it. My recollection was that he was falsely accused of mutilating the hermai, which was believed because he had been genuinely caught being sacrilegious to the mysteries. But this is all 2500 year old gossip, so who knows?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
The Entire Universe posted:Didn't Augustus exile his own daughter to some island because she set a bad example by acting out and partying all the time, making a mockery out of the concept of the Princeps Civitas? Whatever the historical accuracy, please enjoy BRIAN BLESSED as angry Augustus.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 01:27
|
|
|
veekie posted:This line caught my eye in the hymn. That translation is recent, but I don't really know why he translated it as "double axe" -- the Greek text I found said "golden sword". Doesn't really affect your reaction. She's not a violent deity in the Classical period, but she does get a lot of "lady in charge" epithets, so who knows what she was like in Dark Ages Greek religion. Plus the, y'know, sword thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 02:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 10:30 |
|
|
As a bit of total speculation, I would suggest golden sword = sickle or some other sharp farm implement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:07
|
|
