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bobkatt013 posted:The fact that Death was about to reap him. This was a few episodes ago, Sam might not need him anymore but Zeke like's his knew home.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:34
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Zeke wanting to kick Cas out definitely shifted things from "Zeke is an ok dude who just wants to help" to "Zeke is hiding something major." He's either not who he says he is or he doesn't have the goals he says he does. I'm thinking that maybe he's the ringleader of the gently caress Cas bandwagon and is just using Sam to get back to full power then he'll go take over everything.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:32
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I think he definitely has his own motives but I don't think he's evil or trying to screw them over. Also, I want Helo back.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:37
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Lawlicaust posted:Zeke wanting to kick Cas out definitely shifted things from "Zeke is an ok dude who just wants to help" to "Zeke is hiding something major." He's either not who he says he is or he doesn't have the goals he says he does. I'm thinking that maybe he's the ringleader of the gently caress Cas bandwagon and is just using Sam to get back to full power then he'll go take over everything. This was pretty much confirmed for me when he started talking about "their leader," since TV has taught me that whenever some guy with nebulous intentions talks about the leader of the bad people, they ARE the leader of the bad people.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:14
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Bartholomew reminds me so much of Pestilence's lackey Brady that I find it very distracting every time he's on screen. I keep expecting him to tell the reverend to "do the best of someone better."
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Oct 23, 2013 18:22
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Wow reapers are turning into douches, did Death go to hang with god or what. Also go Cas, going out like ever man dreams. While getting laid.....and stabbed to death by a reaper I guess?
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Oct 23, 2013 19:10
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Yeah, the whole overt reaper stuff seems a little against the 'natural order'. I expect we've not seen the last of Death, this season, especially considering that.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:53
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Darth Freddy posted:Wow reapers are turning into douches, did Death go to hang with god or what. In this economy you can't really turn down jobs so easily!
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Oct 23, 2013 21:04
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Aphrodite posted:Not just the pilot, she came back in last night's episode. Yeah, I made that post before watching SHIELD. I like how she kind of died opposite deaths. Bright white light from the inside and black ash on the outside.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:07
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pentyne posted:I doubt the warding ever took into account a full out assault by hordes of angels. Even with the warding they could probably still track him to a general area and start laying waste to everything around it to smoke him out! It's been a while, but in that episode with the key, it is mentioned that the place is warded from all evil; the key being the only way to access it. I took it to mean that the place and the key are magically linked. Even if angels attack, does the place even exist for them without the key?
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Oct 23, 2013 22:23
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ten_twentyfour posted:This was pretty much confirmed for me when he started talking about "their leader," since TV has taught me that whenever some guy with nebulous intentions talks about the leader of the bad people, they ARE the leader of the bad people. I agree with KilGrey on this one, I don't think he's evil but he definitely has some ulterior motive stuff going on.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:37
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The bunker isn't warded against angels because Dean was being a mournful housewife waiting for Cas to return at the end of S8 (noted by Naomi, when she popped into the bunker herself), and if they warded it against angels now then Ezekiel wouldn't be able to leave or re-enter it. I'm sure it's warded against Reapers and such but Zeke seemed more freaked out by the angels, which was weird in itself--he went from "let's go find Cas NOW" to "holy poo poo drop that like a hot pocket" in a matter of hours. The biggest question I have coming off that episode is what caused that shift in him? He seemed, more than anything, to be freaked out by Castiel himself--it was only when Zeke was in the room with him that he seemed to be absolutely making GBS threads himself. What's also weird is why the other angels can't track Ezekiel with their magical-angel-tracking-telepathy business. I was pretty sure the warding got scrubbed from Sam and Dean's ribs at some point, just because Cas, Naomi and friends had no trouble finding them in the past couple seasons. What is even up with that guy, man.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:29
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Could he be freaked out due to Cas no longer having his grace so he is considered as some sort of freak and he does not want to be around him due to that?
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Oct 23, 2013 23:36
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bobkatt013 posted:The fact that Death was about to reap him. I haven't watched the new episodes yet but I don't think that was supposed to really be Death, that was Sam's mind imagining everything. Unless you also think that was really Bobby even though Bobby specifically told him he wasn't really Bobby. At least that's what I took it as. Him just imagining giving in to Death as a way of signaling he gave up, the opposite of what Dean was trying to get him to signal. I also don't think Real Death wouldn't show up while Sam pontificates on whether or not he would actually be reaped. edit: Changed it to think since there's no way to know unless Death shows up and references it Midnight City fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 00:04
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Midnight City posted:I haven't watched the new episodes yet but that wasn't really Death, that was Sam's mind imagining everything. Unless you also think that was really Bobby even though Bobby specifically told him he wasn't really Bobby. He was flatlining and about to die. There is a very good chance that it was death.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:14
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bobkatt013 posted:He was flatlining and about to die. There is a very good chance that it was death. Sam was only flatlining because he was giving up though. I added some stuff in there after you quoted me and changed it to not sound like such a dick. I thought the doctor told Dean that Sam was just in a coma, Sam's condition was tied to his mental tug of war and the more he gave up the worse his physical condition got. I think that's where they were going with it anyway. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 00:15
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Coulrophobia posted:The bunker isn't warded against angels because Dean was being a mournful housewife waiting for Cas to return at the end of S8 (noted by Naomi, when she popped into the bunker herself) We'll probably get an episode where the Bunker's defenses are tested, and powers up. I mean when it was the introduced, it was suggested that the key be destroy so the place is lost forever; but Kevin goes and picks up food and returns all the time by himself, and Crowley enters without any trouble also; even if invited.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:22
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Midnight City posted:I haven't watched the new episodes yet but I don't think that was supposed to really be Death, that was Sam's mind imagining everything. Unless you also think that was really Bobby even though Bobby specifically told him he wasn't really Bobby. Didn't Ezekiel say that Death was there or something? I really got the impression it was the 'real' Death. (and it wouldn't be very surprising if it was) He's the boss, gets all the cool reaps, Gods Kings and Winchesters.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:57
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Just watched it again, Ezekiel doesn't say Death is there, he just shows Dean what's going on in Sam's mind by touching them both at the same time. The biggest thing rewatching it that makes me think it might not be Death is that Sam makes him promise that he can't be brought back again by any means and Death agrees to it. That seems pretty out of reach for Death to promise him, when Death is subject to spells being used against him himself (Lucifer's binding him, Sam/Dean binding him, sickle being used against him etc). It'd be cooler if Death confirms it was him later on but I don't think it was in any way definitive. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 01:21
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Midnight City posted:Sam was only flatlining because he was giving up though. I added some stuff in there after you quoted me and changed it to not sound like such a dick. It has been established that reapers come for you when you're in a coma and you have to choose to join them to actually die.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:22
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computer parts posted:It has been established that reapers come for you when you're in a coma and you have to choose to join them to actually die. When was that? The only one I can remember is when John Winchester made a deal with Azazel while Dean was in a coma and the reaper came for him, who wasn't taking no for an answer and had to be chased away by Azazel. vvv Yeah you're right, watching it now and she's giving him a choice. Just bad timing that Dean had given up right as Azazel drove her away. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 01:26
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Midnight City posted:When was that? The only one I can remember is when John Winchester made a deal with Azazel while Dean was in a coma and the reaper came for him, who wasn't taking no for an answer and had to be chased away by Azazel. You're misremembering, the reaper said he could stay but that he'd remain a ghost forever and eventually go crazy and kill people. They also did something similar with a ghost kid who refused to leave his mom until Dean convinced him to go with the reaper.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:31
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Midnight City posted:I haven't watched the new episodes yet but I don't think that was supposed to really be Death, that was Sam's mind imagining everything. By your logic, Zeke being in Sam's mind as Dean wouldn't be the real Zeke either. Also, Dean was in the exact same situation (coma/nearly dying) when the reaper came to him early in the show. Though instead of walking around inside Dean's mind, they walked around inside the hospital. Bobby had all of his adventures in his own mind trying to escape a reaper though. Plotac 75 posted:Yeah, the whole overt reaper stuff seems a little against the 'natural order'. I expect we've not seen the last of Death, this season, especially considering that. The reaper stuff isn't really new. Last season we heard that rogue reapers were a thing and had been around a bit. It's not really a surprise that angel blades can kill reapers either. In the beginning, the original opposites were God and Death; angels and reapers. Demons didn't come onto the scene until after humanity was created and Lucifer fell. So the angel blades were likely originally created for something other than demons. I doubt Death will even step in to clean house because he already took the action to fix the problem. He brought Sam's soul back from the cage and seems content to let the Winchester rebalance the natural order. Though I do think we'll see Death come back up as a major plotline before the show is over. He was imprisoned until Lucifer freed him. It was probably for a very good reason even if we don't know what that reason is so I imagine they'll bring that up as an issue at some point and they'll have to re-imprison Death. Saltpowered fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 01:39
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computer parts posted:You're misremembering, the reaper said he could stay but that he'd remain a ghost forever and eventually go crazy and kill people. Also, Bobby.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:43
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Midnight City posted:Just watched it again, Ezekiel doesn't say Death is there, he just shows Dean what's going on in Sam's mind by touching them both at the same time. The biggest thing rewatching it that makes me think it might not be Death is that Sam makes him promise that he can't be brought back again by any means and Death agrees to it. I disagree, things related to dying and staying dead seem firmly in Death's realm of expertise.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:05
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TheChad posted:I disagree, things related to dying and staying dead seem firmly in Death's realm of expertise. That just reminded me, remember when this show was all about 'whatever's dead should stay dead?'  As for the last episode, oh man, Castiel's puppy dog eyes at the end.  Also I grew up in Dayton, so the little shoutout made me irrationally happy.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:29
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scorpiobean posted:That just reminded me, remember when this show was all about 'whatever's dead should stay dead?' Then Cas got Dean out of hell and it caused for Lucifer to return.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:36
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Lawlicaust posted:
Well, I'd imagine they were created to kill angels, since there was the war in heaven. Since angels are pretty high on the list of "poo poo that is incredibly powerful" in the Supernatural universe, makes sense they'd need a strong weapon to ace one. Just works nicely on other things as well, since it channels "heaven's power" through it (according to the series coffee table book they printed out a year or so ago). Not much can stand up to that kinda juice, so it's kinda the swiss army knife of killing poo poo. As far as Death goes, he wasn't imprisoned, he was summoned. It was part of the "unseemly little spell" Lucifer used to bind him as a horseman.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:40
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Well, I'd imagine they were created to kill angels, since there was the war in heaven. Since angels are pretty high on the list of "poo poo that is incredibly powerful" in the Supernatural universe, makes sense they'd need a strong weapon to ace one. Just works nicely on other things as well, since it channels "heaven's power" through it (according to the series coffee table book they printed out a year or so ago). Not much can stand up to that kinda juice, so it's kinda the swiss army knife of killing poo poo. I always see Death as like Death from Sandman or any of the Endless. He/She is one of the most powerful things and the only thing that is more powerful is god.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:42
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TheChad posted:I disagree, things related to dying and staying dead seem firmly in Death's realm of expertise. I was probably wrong with it not being Death but I don't think this is right, Death seems to still be subject to the 'lore' they've established with being able to bind him / kill him with the special sickle, if he could just completely obliterate someone from ever coming back or sending them to some place they couldn't he probably would've done something about it by now, like pre-emptively obliterating Sam or Dean so that he wouldn't be Lucifer's bitch. His big speech in the diner to Dean about reaping God in the end seemed like false bravado to me considering he was always destined to be a son of God's (Lucifer's) buttmonkey for the armageddon. Even the Winchesters managed to bind him to them and he was helpless until Cas took it off. Until we see a God killing weapon or God being bound by some spell I think Death is firmly below him in power despite what he says.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:47
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:As far as Death goes, he wasn't imprisoned, he was summoned. It was part of the "unseemly little spell" Lucifer used to bind him as a horseman. To quote that episode: quote:BOBBY I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that means that he wasn't just summoned. Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Well, I'd imagine they were created to kill angels, since there was the war in heaven. The Supernatural mythos is pretty sparse about what actually happened when Lucifer rebelled. The implication seems to be that he refused to serve man, created Lilith, and then was thrown into the Cage for doing it. No real indication of a big war at that point in time. Hebrew tradition does have it as an actual war with multiple fallen angels but Supernatural seems to lean towards it just being Lucifer since the names of those fallen angels from Hebrew lore have been applied to many of the big-bad demons (Azazel for instance). Also, speaking of killing Reapers. Alistair had a reaper killing weapon back in season 4 and he said he got it "old buddy from downstairs. Now, between you and me, he doesn't ride a pale horse, but he does have 3 amigos." Midnight City posted:His big speech in the diner to Dean about reaping God in the end seemed like false bravado to me considering he was always destined to be a son of God's (Lucifer's) buttmonkey for the armageddon. Even the Winchesters managed to bind him to them and he was helpless until Cas took it off. Until we see a God killing weapon or God being bound by some spell I think Death is firmly below him in power despite what he says. From what we've heard from Death, neither he nor God know what's going to happen at the end of time. And neither of them know which one came first. I agree that it seems like Death is just assuming he will reap God. However, Death may indeed be powerful enough to do so since we know he's done things that no other being other than God can do (Death created the reapers and was able to enter the Cage). Saltpowered fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 05:56
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Midnight City posted:I was probably wrong with it not being Death but I don't think this is right, Death seems to still be subject to the 'lore' they've established with being able to bind him / kill him with the special sickle, if he could just completely obliterate someone from ever coming back or sending them to some place they couldn't he probably would've done something about it by now, like pre-emptively obliterating Sam or Dean so that he wouldn't be Lucifer's bitch. Death is a universal constant, it makes sense that you can gain temporary control over him but he will always win in the end. I'm just imagining that if Death wanted to he could prevent a resurrection, just seems to fall into the category of special powers he might have.
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Oct 24, 2013 06:05
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TheChad posted:Death is a universal constant, it makes sense that you can gain temporary control over him but he will always win in the end. Death wasn't a universal constant in the beginning though. When God first created the universe everything was immortal, humans and angels alike. Humans only lost immortality when Adam & Eve ate the apple, so he would have had to of created Death when he took Man's mortality, unless Death was hanging around reaping animals the whole time. I mean none of this means anything because I really doubt they're ever going to address that speech he gave again but it's fun to think about. Part of me is hoping God does return and some of this is addressed just because of how much they've brought up God leaving. Wasn't there a whole episode of them trying to find God and only getting the gardener?  vvv Doesn't even seem like faulty writing either given how little of a poo poo he cared about Dean trying to use it against him Midnight City fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 06:26
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Lawlicaust posted:
That's actually the same sickle that Crowley gave the boys 
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Oct 24, 2013 06:35
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Midnight City posted:Death wasn't a universal constant in the beginning though. When God first created the universe everything was immortal, humans and angels alike. Humans only lost immortality when Adam & Eve ate the apple, so he would have had to of created Death when he took Man's mortality, unless Death was hanging around reaping animals the whole time. Lucifer 'bound' him so tightly that he just gave up his horseman ring and ignored what Lucifer wanted him to do - I like to think that everything that controls Death is just Death not caring enough to exert himself; he's coming for everyone eventually.
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Oct 24, 2013 07:31
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eNeMeE posted:Except we don't actually know that that's the way things happened in the Supernatural-verse. The tower of Babel was what, 30 ft high? And not smote by God. That's not how it happened in the Supernatural-verse though. Death was doing mostly what Lucifer wanted, he even says "he has me where he wants me, when he wants me". He does give Dean his ring but Lucifer never told him not to do that most likely as he didn't seem to care too much about it when Sam first tried to use it against him in that apartment. Also Death was bound for thousands of years in Supernatural-verse under the Earth by God and the Holy Host and was only let out for armageddon, so it definitely goes to show God has more power over Death. Also found this part from the Supernatural wiki quote:Death tells Dean that the soul is stronger than anyone knows, and that it can suffer much and be broken but can't be destroyed, not even by him. So if he can't destroy the soul it doesn't stand to reason he could just obliterate Sam from ever coming back. Death just talks a bigger game than he is. edit: Although what if it turns out Death is responsible for God being missing? 
Midnight City fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 08:07
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Midnight City posted:So if he can't destroy the soul it doesn't stand to reason he could just obliterate Sam from ever coming back. Death just talks a bigger game than he is. He didn't mean obliterate Sam entirely. He just meant that he could keep them from bringing Sam's soul back into his body from most means. I'm sure God could still bring him back but not your garden variety angel/demon.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:26
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Your point about death not being there before God is invalid because Death mentions that neither of them came first. The SN mythology is clearly different than the christian mythos anyways. Also, we don't even know what God can do in this universe. Spells seem to be ridiculously powerful in general, they allow regular humans to control demons/angels/Death, possibly God if the show goes on long enough. So God/angels controlling Death with a spell is completely believable even if he's the baddest or second baddest dude around. Also I don't think he would be 'obliterating' Sam's soul, just preventing a resurrection. (side note: Death in this universe is almost Pratchian, which is amusing.) btw: I will admit Death probably couldn't prevent a Winchester resurrection even if he really really tried. You can't get rid of those guys. 
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Oct 24, 2013 08:31
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So what are the odds on Dean not telling Castiel why he can't stay and just being a dick about it?
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Oct 25, 2013 07:26
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Pwnstar posted:So what are the odds on Dean not telling Castiel why he can't stay and just being a dick about it? Supremely high. It makes me sad
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Oct 25, 2013 07:29
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