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Hyperriker posted:DS9 supremacy, folks That episode always kind of bothered me. In that one scene alone, Kira says that thanks to people like [the arms dealer] Bajor is a free world the Cardassians were beaten. But then she turns right back around says to Quark that she is looking forward to seeing him go down. It always seemed like a double standard to me.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:39
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Lowen SoDium posted:That episode always kind of bothered me. In that one scene alone, Kira says that thanks to people like [the arms dealer] Bajor is a free world the Cardassians were beaten. But then she turns right back around says to Quark that she is looking forward to seeing him go down. It's kind of forced, really. Early in the series we learn that Quark has a habit of tricking new Dabo girls into entering binding agreements which contractually require them to perform sexual acts for Quark, and although Sisko puts a stop to this, nobody seems to have a problem with continuing to support his business. Odo constantly complains that Quark is involved in criminal activity, and although he's pretty widely considered a tightass, his judgment as a police and security officer is also well-regarded... and yet nobody has a problem with continuing to support what could be merely a legal front for a criminal enterprise. But open up a holographic gun show and suddenly Quark is the new
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Oct 25, 2013 20:00
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The thinking is everyone knows Quark has a conscience and isn't a bad guy, just a Ferengi, and he doesn't put up a fight when Sisko tells him to knock things off. He's also not a very good criminal. The real danger are the people that do business in his bar and allowing him to operate is good for station security because it lets Odo watch them.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:19
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Lowen SoDium posted:That episode always kind of bothered me. In that one scene alone, Kira says that thanks to people like [the arms dealer] Bajor is a free world the Cardassians were beaten. But then she turns right back around says to Quark that she is looking forward to seeing him go down. I always took it that Kira was reluctantly citing the party line and didn't necessarily agree, and was possibly quite torn on the issue. It's just that she's not making it obvious there.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:22
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I'm surprised Quark never caught on that doing a bit of good now and then was the ultimate cover to do evil poo poo. Sponsor a Bajoran orphan event for 100 bars of latinum, sell a hundred times as much weapons when the Kai is giving you an ear job.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:30
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happyhippy posted:I'm surprised Quark never caught on that doing a bit of good now and then was the ultimate cover to do evil poo poo. Quark doing some scam for The Bajoran Orphans was a plot point of a few episodes.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:32
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rypakal posted:This is the moment of the film when my brain goes NOOOOOOOOOOOO because it's almost a flawless movie in my mind otherwise. I like TUC, but I think people go way too easy on the middle third of the film. Kirk and McCoy on the prison planet gives us a couple of nice character scenes, but it doesn't advance the plot much at all. It seems like a leftover sequence from another script. But at least it is tolerable. I can't say the same for the story happening on the Enterprise at the same time. Spock and the "Mystery of the Missing Gravity Boots!" is a completely contrived time waster. It makes no sense, contains too many ridiculous scenes as it twists itself in knots trying to make sense of the plot (phaser alarms that never existed before or since, phaser-resistant mashed potatoes, etc.). Seriously, you could skip the entire middle third of the movie and it would make almost no difference plot-wise. Jump right from the end of the trial to the discovery of the two murdered assassins, and you have lost almost nothing. Because the movie starts so strongly and ends strongly, people tend to forgive what is, at times, a very messy and very contrived script, especially in the middle.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:40
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Luigi Thirty posted:The thinking is everyone knows Quark has a conscience and isn't a bad guy, just a Ferengi, and he doesn't put up a fight when Sisko tells him to knock things off. He's also not a very good criminal. The real danger are the people that do business in his bar and allowing him to operate is good for station security because it lets Odo watch them. Odo's the only one who could reasonably get away with it, seeing as the first two or three seasons, he responds to anything anyone says with a roll of his eyes and a muttering about "solids." He's already racist.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:44
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Luigi Thirty posted:The thinking is everyone knows Quark has a conscience and isn't a bad guy, just a Ferengi, and he doesn't put up a fight when Sisko tells him to knock things off. He's also not a very good criminal. The real danger are the people that do business in his bar and allowing him to operate is good for station security because it lets Odo watch them.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:45
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Hyperriker posted:I always took it that Kira was reluctantly citing the party line and didn't necessarily agree, and was possibly quite torn on the issue. It's just that she's not making it obvious there. I always thought it was obvious she was only saying that becuase she was ordered to; look at the disgust when she says that Bajor owes Gaila. But since Quark is doing business on the station he still has to follow its rules, so she can bust him on that. From the way it was presented I assumed that the bar was Quark's main interest, and he only did illegal deals when he got a good opportunity. Most of that seemed to be dealing in precious materials and the like, which is a far cry from selling biological weapons designed to kill millions (which understandably the Federation would not abide).
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Oct 25, 2013 20:45
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Nessus posted:Quark was just exercising his natural and inherent Ferengi rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of Exactly, similar to why Worf gets to murder chancellors and nobody cares. He's just exercising his Klingon rights!
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Oct 25, 2013 21:02
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Luigi Thirty posted:Exactly, similar to why Worf gets to murder chancellors and nobody cares. He's just exercising his Klingon rights! That's probably more related to "this guy is loving our war effort over with his dumbass glory poo poo, we're not going to look a gift assassination in the mouth if it means working with a competent Chancellor"
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Oct 25, 2013 21:04
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The Federation in DS9 tolerates some pretty skeevy poo poo at times, and they most likely know that the circumstances that surrounds the Romulans entering the Dominion War wasn't exactly above board.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:06
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Vagabundo posted:The Federation in DS9 tolerates some pretty skeevy poo poo at times, and they most likely know that the circumstances that surrounds the Romulans entering the Dominion War wasn't exactly above board. After that poo poo The Sisko pulled he is put on Section 31 payroll.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:09
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Just watched "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the first time. I kind of liked it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the general consensus ITT that it was a lame episode? I'm not looking to get in lock-step with the thread (because gently caress you guys), but I'm just curious what people have to say about it. I was never a big fan of Tasha Yar, but what it did for her actress is worth it by itself. She made a calculated mistake in ditching Trek to pursue a film career with began and ended with Pet Cemetery, but both she and the show made nice and give her a decent exit, albeit a couple seasons late. That was kind of neat. I'm also growing to like Guignan. She was probably the best part of "Yesterday's Enterprise." Whoopi Goldberg does a drat good job, and she still has has my favorite line in the series so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiEjGtM6rnE Here's hoping there's more episodes about her race being Tralfamadorians.
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Oct 25, 2013 22:33
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Yesterday's Enterprise is often considered to be one of the best episodes of the series.
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Oct 25, 2013 22:35
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Hahaha...Poor Shatner. He's doing a biding for hanging out with him for a day and being on his new ~web series~ And the poor guy thought he'd get more then $2,650. https://www.charitybuzz.com/catalog_items/385299 I guess I shouldn't laugh too much since the proceeds are actually going to a charity for schools... Quick, somebody spend $3,000 and do a trip report for the thread. EDIT: Yesterday's Enterprise rules. Everytime I try to introduce someone new to TNG I consider using that episode because it's really fantastic, but I feel like you only really enjoy it if you've come to know the characters and what the 'normal' timeline is like. Apple Jax fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 22:36
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Yesterday's Enterprise is amazing.
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Oct 25, 2013 22:37
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Yesterday's Enterprise is the turning point when TNG became great.
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Oct 25, 2013 22:41
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Railing Kill posted:Just watched "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the first time. I kind of liked it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the general consensus ITT that it was a lame episode? I'm not looking to get in lock-step with the thread (because gently caress you guys), but I'm just curious what people have to say about it. I think you're thinking about 'Time's Arrow' that everyone here hates partially because Guinan and mostly from what I can tell because of the way they portray Samuel Clemens. But gently caress all these people I love two episodes about RASCAL MARK TWAIN. Man just wants to smoke some cuban cigars and gently caress up poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:00
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Yesterday's Enterprise is a great episode and I'd consider it to be one of the best examples of TNG. But it's definitely NOT an episode I'd show to somebody watching TNG for the first time.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:07
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Been going through DS9, which I saw when it originally aired but I was 5 years old when it started. I just saw Trials and Tribble-ations and oh my god it was delightful. And, oh good god I just started the next one and I cannot believe how much they keep emphasizing "DAX AND WORF HAVE SEX SO HARD IT FRACTURES THEIR BONES." I cannot believe my parents watched this show with me. showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 23:14
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showbiz_liz posted:Been going through DS9, which I saw when it originally aired but I was 5 years old when it started. I just saw Trials and Tribble-ations and oh my god it was delightful. Fan service done amazingly well. Such a fun episode.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:17
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Whalley posted:Quark is honestly one of the best characters in DS9, a show full of really good characters. Every time someone criticizes him for acting like a Ferengi, it comes across as really kind of racist. Like, you guys are choosing to hang out with the profit-hungry Ferengi, don't roll your eyes at him for saying something about profits. It would be like if all the other characters constantly rolled their eyes at Sisko's African masks, or Kira's religious beliefs. No wonder the Ferengi don't really trust the Federation, they're a constant target of scorn despite outright saying "whoa now we never did some of the barbaric poo poo you hoo-mons have done in your past, drat." We've talked about the oomox vs genocide thing in these threads before. The problem is there are tons of people on these forums that are only capable of viewing moral issues in complete absolutes. Tricking an employee to rubbing your ears (which, while pleasurable isn't actually related to ferengi sex) is immoral. Selling the means to commit genocide on millions of people is immoral. Therefor, both of these things are exactly the same and should be responded to in equal amount of repulsion. I don't think the starfleet response to him selling weapons was all that harsh really. His bar was boycotted for awhile sure, but after he quit, it was all forgiven and back to business as usual.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:58
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Commissar Ken posted:I think you're thinking about 'Time's Arrow' that everyone here hates partially because Guinan and mostly from what I can tell because of the way they portray Samuel Clemens. But gently caress all these people I love two episodes about RASCAL MARK TWAIN. Man just wants to smoke some cuban cigars and gently caress up poo poo. Quick, someone post the video of Mark Twain's lines all replaced with those weird bird-like noises he made.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:08
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Whalley posted:Does Enterprise even have a homoerotic bromance? TOS had Kirk/Spock, TNG had Picard/Riker and Geordie/Data, DS9 had O'Brien/Bashir, VOY rammed Kim/Paris down our throats (and each other's) with The Chute, but I can't think of any that really jump out from Enterprise. Dude, did you even watch "Shuttlepod One?"
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Oct 26, 2013 00:10
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Quick, someone post the video of Mark Twain's lines all replaced with those weird bird-like noises he made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rd5DlT_m8I This one? Great, now I want to sit down and rewatch all those TNG edits.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:34
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Am I the only one who liked the Mark Twain / Jack London characters in Time's Arrow? I also like the fact that after that episode, Data's head is several hundred years older than his body.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:36
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Trent posted:Am I the only one who liked the Mark Twain / Jack London characters in Time's Arrow? I had no problem with Jack, but Twain makes me cringe every time.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:39
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Ah the TNG edits, Bridge Buffoonery and Perfect Programme have me in tears every time.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:52
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Trent posted:Am I the only one who liked the Mark Twain / Jack London characters in Time's Arrow? I thought they were great.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:03
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Trent posted:Am I the only one who liked the Mark Twain / Jack London characters in Time's Arrow? I liked em' both obviously and time traveling human disguised Gul Dukat too. I'd like to think that's where he ended up after falling into the Fire Caves. The Pah Wraiths just teleported him to 1893 San Fransisco where he'll lose to Data in poker for all eternity. It's like 'The Royale'!
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Oct 26, 2013 01:10
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Commissar Ken posted:I liked em' both obviously and time traveling human disguised Gul Dukat too. I'd like to think that's where he ended up after falling into the Fire Caves. The Pah Wraiths just teleported him to 1893 San Fransisco where he'll lose to Data in poker for all eternity. It's like 'The Royale'! He keeps shifting through history. Sometimes he's a bayou card sharp, sometimes a snarky Romulan, sometimes a truckdriver from some film I can't remember. Sometimes, he is a regular human who is bat-poo poo insane, but shows up at conventions to scare the horses.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:45
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I still think 'human' rights is a bit of a smokescreen. Even as TNG was premiering, there was a general move towards more inclusive language. It's a bit preposterous to think that human society couldn't take that itsy bitsy step to use terms like sapient or sophont rights when dudes with pointy ears started showing up. Besides, Klingons shouldn't even care if they perceive Humans as being racist. Their whole system is built from the ground up on the notion that Klingons are better, that imposing their will on weaker groups is fine. I can totally see Klingons being fed up with what they perceive as Federation sanctimony and preachiness, and probably even hypocrisy, that's not what they go for in that scene.
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Oct 26, 2013 01:45
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If I was a Star Trek character, I'd grow up to be Fajo, except cooler and even more amoral. I wouldn't be "Data get naked and sit in the chair." I'd be like "Data help me find Lore so I can complete the set."
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Oct 26, 2013 02:13
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The Dark One posted:Besides, Klingons shouldn't even care if they perceive Humans as being racist. Their whole system is built from the ground up on the notion that Klingons are better, that imposing their will on weaker groups is fine. Klingons make no bones about their believed racial supremacy, and they also make a careful point about respect for worthy opponents. Their problem with the Federation I think is their perception that the Federation is exactly like them, but are hiding it behind twisted words and claims of tolerance. That's why they're so disdainful of the Federation's love for treaties and diplomacy, because it more opportunities to win wars with carefully chosen language rather than guns. So of course they'd take the opportunity of a word that was NOT carefully chosen to spring a nice  GOTCHA.quote:Quark dealing weapons stuff The thing that always really pissed me off about that whole bit is that the Klingon government is one of the biggest arms dealers in the quadrant. You can see mercenaries and non-aligned NPCs carrying Klingon weapons at several points across several shows. I'd go so far as to say they're probably at full-scale post-Cold War Russia levels of arms dealing, making it one of the staples of their interstellar economy. When those Ferengi took over the Enterprise, they were flying legally purchased surplus Birds of Prey, complete with loving cloaking devices! Where's the outrage and sanctions against Gowron or Martok for THEIR part in the reprehensible field of arms dealing? Where's the decisions to end friendships and the threats of crackdowns against even the smallest slights against station protocol? DAX of all people had the loving nerve to say she basically never wanted to speak to Quark again? THE FORMER FEDERATION AMBASSADOR TO THE KLINGON EMPIRE WHO ALSO JOINED KLINGON OFFICERS ON A BLOOD FEUD MISSION TO MURDER A GUY IN COLD BLOOD. gently caress that whole episode man.
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Oct 26, 2013 02:13
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Quark has clearly seen Lord of War and took notes.
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Oct 26, 2013 02:15
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Trickjaw posted:sometimes a truckdriver from some film I can't remember. The Naked Gun 33 1/3.
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Oct 26, 2013 02:16
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Apollodorus posted:The Naked Gun 33 1/3. That was in the back of my mind, but its late, and I was too lazy to check. God forbid I commit myself to anything on the internet I am not 100% sure of! But thank you, I would have lay awake trying to piece it together.
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Oct 26, 2013 02:30
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Shadeoses posted:One really good TOS episode I saw recently was Mirror, Mirror. The evil parallel universe stuff was neat, but the highlight for me was how Kirk immediately caught on and played along in the new universe. He didn't act all dopey and confused and get outed instantly, but played it cool and more or less tricked everyone. The highlight for me was Evil Spock's logic at the end. That character is perfect on every level.
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