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Can anyone suggest to me some good Thugs that might be possible with MA Ulm? Someone had suggested Bane Lord summons if my pretender had some death magic, but she doesn't so I'm looking for a good alternative. It's great being able to produce magic items so cheap, but it's nothing if I don't have anyone who can use it well. My pretender has a fairly large amount magic in all paths except Death and Blood (In which I have none).
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Oct 27, 2013 20:07
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How the gently caress does conservative gem use work? Because right now it seems to mean "don't use flaming arrows on a single commander... spam fire elementals instead" and that bullshit just cost me my entire supply of fire gems.
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Oct 27, 2013 20:39
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Don't use more gems than you need for the spells that need gems, and none for the ones that don't need them?
amuayse fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 20:42
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Can anyone suggest to me some good Thugs that might be possible with MA Ulm? Someone had suggested Bane Lord summons if my pretender had some death magic, but she doesn't so I'm looking for a good alternative. It's great being able to produce magic items so cheap, but it's nothing if I don't have anyone who can use it well. Summonable thugs were pretty rare and not very cost effective in vanilla Dom3 and that hasn't changed much for Dom4. Maybe a Sleeper if you're that desperate but he's more of a super troop ferry than a thug. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 21:27
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Asehujiko posted:How the gently caress does conservative gem use work? Because right now it seems to mean "don't use flaming arrows on a single commander... spam fire elementals instead" and that bullshit just cost me my entire supply of fire gems. Sounds like it isn't working as intended and you should write up a bug report.
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Oct 27, 2013 21:29
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Can anyone suggest to me some good Thugs that might be possible with MA Ulm? There really aren't any cost efficient options available to you. Troll kings of various flavors and sleepers will work if you feel spendy. If you can make iron angels or golems they're probably your most fun options.
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Oct 28, 2013 00:11
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Iron Angel or bust.
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Oct 28, 2013 02:23
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Iron Angels rule. My favorite dom3 memory was having one go against 2 chayots and win. He was insanely decked out and had a heroic ability, but still.
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Oct 28, 2013 02:49
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They rule but they're also Conj 8 and need a lot of gear to really function.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:00
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There might be some acceptable targets for Gift of Reason. Has anyone tried Yetis or Hill Giants? I would but im lazy.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:56
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 Here
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Oct 28, 2013 04:05
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Gift of reason adds a huge up front cost and almost universally gets you something that needs half a dozen items to survive on its own.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:06
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amuayse posted:
MR. 
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Oct 28, 2013 04:10
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wtf 106 hitpoints too bad he's 9 base mr or that would be absolutely fantastic as an SC
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Oct 28, 2013 04:10
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Yeti ain't half bad with that chill aura & resist. Solid enough stats, except for def. Would probably do well with a basic armor.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:30
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So what we see is that we need a whole bunch more summons like Awesome Endgame gave us.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:56
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Speleothing posted:Yeti ain't half bad with that chill aura & resist. Solid enough stats, except for def. Would probably do well with a basic armor. Their rock throwing ability has like 30 ammo too so they can do that forever. Was messing around with them in a test game and they make a superb wall if you drop that aoe liquid body spell on them. EDIT: Their combat stats are garbage though and GoR would be a waste imo. That's be like GoRing a Sea Troll. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 14:29
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How are u posted:So what we see is that we need a whole bunch more summons like Awesome Endgame gave us. Only if you're dedicated to making the game thug-based again.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:26
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Thugs are nice because, setting aside afflictions and horror marking, they're either alive or dead. Dealing with attrition and reinforcements in Dominions is one of the least fun aspects of the game, and I expect it's even worse now with the nerfs to mobility and ritual range.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:28
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dis astranagant posted:Gift of reason adds a huge up front cost and almost universally gets you something that needs half a dozen items to survive on its own. They have really good combat stats, recuperation, and come pre-equiped with nice high prot/low enc armour, a large shield, and magic weapons (including range 25 magic javelins!). Stick on an amulet of luck or something and they're good to go. They're probably not going to be rampaging through the countryside on their own, but they don't look completely awful to me. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 17:21
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Speleothing posted:Only if you're dedicated to making the game thug-based again. Bane and Banelord-level summons would be nice. Just dear God nothing like Zmey ever again.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:40
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Decrepus posted:Bane and Banelord-level summons would be nice. Just dear God nothing like Zmey ever again. Continue along the full slots, inbuilt magic weapon(s), Size 3, 2-3 dozen hp, 16ish MR and so on pattern like Bane Lords and Sleepers, and just expand it to different paths?
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Oct 28, 2013 22:47
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I don't know that every path needs access to equally good summons. It'd be nice if (to some degree) the paths you had continued to dictate the general types of strategy you had ideal access to.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:50
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So yeah. I did a thing where I updated the "Worthy Heroes" mod to dom4. It was long time ago assimilated into CBM, but llamabeast asked me to update the hero portion to dom4. It basically adds more heroes, especially to nations that have few of them and beefs weak heroes, especially the human "almost-thug" heroes. Download, hero list and other further detail in the desura thread. http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/worthy-heroes If you want to contribute heroes, or hero ideas. Use the thread or fire me up in IrC.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:54
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jBrereton posted:So what are the characteristics we should be looking at when it comes to 'proper but not imbalanced' thugs? My problem with the Zmey is that they have a big chunk of hit points, that occur over three "lives" making insta-kill stuff less effective on them. Combine that with naturally very high stats, three head slots for a variety of options, and a relatively low cost, and you end up with a chassis that is at the top tier of the thug category without costing as much as it should. For summons, the key to balancing increased power, at least in my mind, is to increase their gem cost and push them further down the research tree. Zmey's were able to come out in the early mid-game, when they really should be a late mid-game summon. Of course, now I'm prepared for everyone to call me stupid and point out how I'm wrong.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:58
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Burnsaber posted:So yeah. I did a thing where I updated the "Worthy Heroes" mod to dom4. It was long time ago assimilated into CBM, but llamabeast asked me to update the hero portion to dom4. It basically adds more heroes, especially to nations that have few of them and beefs weak heroes, especially the human "almost-thug" heroes. Schneeble may still have our notes from when we were trying to get Awesome Heroes going, if you're interested. I'm not sure your ideas will align super well with mine, but it's worth a try. Talk at me on IRC if you like, or I have PMs.
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Oct 28, 2013 22:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't know that every path needs access to equally good summons. It'd be nice if (to some degree) the paths you had continued to dictate the general types of strategy you had ideal access to.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:06
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jBrereton posted:I'd broadly agree, but at the moment, taking D3/4 on a pretender is very tempting to get hold of Bane Lords and Spectres, given they're better summons than almost everything else available early on in terms of cheap, effective thugging and opening up other paths. Does anything else really compare to spectral mages in that regard? Just needs D3 and opens up 3 other paths along with the ability to forge shadow brands/duskdaggers. Vanilla fire has always felt the weakest to me or maybe I'm just bad. What should I be sinking fire gems into besides raging hearts, some battle magic, and maybe a little forging? I tend to just dump them into lanterns or turn them into pearls.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:37
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Vanilla fire has always felt the weakest to me For F7+, you've got what... Purgatory? Second Sun? Purgatory is going to mainly be an irrelevance, since Ermor/Lemuria will likely go Dom10, and for everything else, there's priests. Second Sun, actually going to slow you down if you're in a strong enough position to use it, because rivers are a much more common barrier than mountain ranges.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:27
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Purgatory is very good, if Ermor tries to invade you when you have 5+ candles their decent troops will just evaporate. If you're in a position where MA/LA Ermor has a ton of temples and is pushing dominion everywhere then you're probably boned anyway
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Oct 29, 2013 00:31
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NinjaDebugger posted:Schneeble may still have our notes from when we were trying to get Awesome Heroes going, if you're interested. I'm not sure your ideas will align super well with mine, but it's worth a try. Talk at me on IRC if you like, or I have PMs. I just went diggin around for that file and it was not in any of the likely locations. If it turns up I'll let you know but in the meantime you'll have to go from memory and/or current inspiration.
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Oct 29, 2013 01:59
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tooterfish posted:Yeah. I've noticed people knocking sleepers, but for the price of GoR alone you can get two of those guys. Amulet of Luck isn't much good on thugs anymore, because luck is different now. You'll want something like Vine Shield or maybe Floating Shield
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Oct 29, 2013 02:03
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Lute New newbie game, MA, 180 provinces, blah blah. I am too lazy to change this formula right now people. Sign up if you want to play, newbies only, I will boot you if I think you're too experienced because yeah sure why not. Enjoy! Edit: Server is live, feel free to upload your gods as you sign up. Please no Ermor, thanks. Lilli fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 03:13
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Vanilla fire has always felt the weakest to me or maybe I'm just bad. What should I be sinking fire gems into besides raging hearts, some battle magic, and maybe a little forging? I tend to just dump them into lanterns or turn them into pearls. I've been playing around with modding ideas, and one of the things I've been considering is adding a communion spell to fire. F2, probably conjuration, probably with a higher fatigue than the base communion spells. Fire definitely needs something - and this would add some interesting flavor, too. I've been going through the janky spreadsheet of mages I'm putting together and looking to see if this expands the power of any nations too far - most of the nations that seem to benefit aren't exactly powerhouses already.
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Oct 29, 2013 03:57
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Kenlon posted:I've been playing around with modding ideas, and one of the things I've been considering is adding a communion spell to fire. F2, probably conjuration, probably with a higher fatigue than the base communion spells. Fire definitely needs something - and this would add some interesting flavor, too. I've been going through the janky spreadsheet of mages I'm putting together and looking to see if this expands the power of any nations too far - most of the nations that seem to benefit aren't exactly powerhouses already. Is there any spell other than Curse of Stones that adds encumbrance to units? Maybe something with medium range, high precision, small AoE that's earlier in the tech trees? That kind of makes some sort of sense as a fire spell and would add another tool for trying to counter early game elite units/thugging.
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Oct 29, 2013 04:03
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Tulip posted:Is there any spell other than Curse of Stones that adds encumbrance to units? Maybe something with medium range, high precision, small AoE that's earlier in the tech trees? That kind of makes some sort of sense as a fire spell and would add another tool for trying to counter early game elite units/thugging. The other thing that the game needs is more ritual magic with actual teeth. That could be helpful for the weaker combat magic lines.
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Oct 29, 2013 04:05
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Kristoffer.Osterman posted:Since before the founding of Agartha there has been a forbidden chamber under the Roots of the Earth. Agarthan legends tell of three dark gods of an earlier age imprisoned with the help of the first Pale Ones. The Seal was strengthened with the souls of thousands of Pale Ones who gave their lives to protect the world from the Imprisoned Ones. Now the Seal seems to be weakening and a there are rumors of a crack in the Seal. Some Oracles of the Dead have heard silent whispers in their dreams. Whispers of promise. A promise to spare the Agarthan people when if the Imprisoned Ones are released. The oldest and most influential of the Oracles of the Dead has spoken against it, but desperate times need desperate measures, and the whispered promise has not been forgotten.
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Oct 29, 2013 14:50
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amuayse posted:Looks like we're looking forward to 3 new pretenders for Agartha. Just watch. 3 new chassis, highest atk stat between them will be 9.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:07
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Kenlon posted:The other thing that the game needs is more ritual magic with actual teeth. That could be helpful for the weaker combat magic lines. Wasn't this one of the selling points for Fire? Maybe it could use a dissent-raising ritual (as well as a higher end 'blow up troops' spell).
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Oct 29, 2013 15:36
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There is a unrest raising ritual, burning hearts
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Oct 29, 2013 15:46
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