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Lord of the Llamas
Jul 9, 2002

EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

This is old news, but according to politicalbetting.com re-privatising the East Coast mainline looks like an election winner.



Or not.

I'm pretty sure that privatised railways has never even had majority support amongst Conservatives never mind the rest of the country. It's so incredibly mystifying that Blair didn't even enact rail renationalisation from a populist vote grabbing perspective given how unequivocally popular it is :iiam:.

But then again Blair thinks that the right thing is to try and maximise disappointment from everyone :ms:


Edit: 1924 The Geneva Protocol is adopted by the League of Nations Assembly as a means to strengthen the League, but later fails to be ratified.

Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Oct 4, 2013

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zonar
Jan 4, 2012

That was a BAD business decision!
Speaking of rail investment, the Welsh Assembly Government approved the South Wales Metro recently. Any opinions on if the measures it includes would be useful?

quote:

A multi-million pound project to bring a long-awaited overhaul to the transport network of South East Wales has finally been given the green light by the Welsh Government... It means a total of £62m will be ploughed into the scheme over the next three years – including £28.7m in 2014-2015 and £29.8m in 2015-2016, as well as £3.5m this year.

The Echo understands the initial tranche of funding for the long-mooted scheme is not yet appropriated to specific programmes, but First Minister Carwyn Jones has previously said he wanted to increase the rail network’s coverage of the east of Cardiff and links with Newport alongside greater link-ups with the Valleys.

An independent task force, commissioned by the Welsh Government, produced a report in June which detailed new railway stations and routes, as well as priority bus lanes and light rail, which would better connect the region.

The group – whose membership included representation from one of the region’s biggest employers in insurance giant Admiral – had recommended a package of “phase one” projects worth £90m.

This included £15m for bus priority corridors – which include an “express bus” between the city centre and Cardiff Airport – and £13m for station improvements, such as park and ride.

Longer-term plans included proposals for rapid transit in and around Cardiff, priority bus corridors both north-south and cross-Valleys, new routes between central Cardiff and the city’s north west, a new light rail system linking Cardiff Queen St, Callaghan Square, Cardiff Bay, the enterprise zone and Cardiff Central and a Caerphilly-Newport new rail line on disused rail corridor.

Confirmation of the go-ahead of the scheme and investment was published alongside the Welsh Government’s draft budget proposals, which saw cuts applied to local government totalling around £150m for next year, but an extra £570m for the health budget over the next three years.

However, local government will take a huge hit to its budget, with nearly £150m shaved off its revenue next year, with a further £106m the following year... Eluned Parrott, Welsh Liberal Democrat transport spokeswoman and South Wales Central AM, said: “In the past, the South Wales East Metro system has been mooted by the Welsh Government but we’ve never seen confirmation that this is going ahead. If this is indeed confirmation of the beginning of the South Wales East Metro, albeit with the small funding attached to it, this is to be welcomed.

“For a truly transformational metro programme, a significant amount of investment will be required in the years ahead. The electrification of the south Wales line by the coalition government, along with the associated infrastructure boost if the regional metro is developed, will help improve the economy of south Wales by growing connectivity.”

Byron Davies, the Shadow Transport Minister, said: “It is clear that the transport system needs urgent improvement across Wales and this investment must be given a cautious welcome.”

He added: “More must now be done and I hope similar schemes follow elsewhere in Wales.”

If nothing else, electrifying the lines seems like it'd be a positive move?

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug
Don't suppose any of you would know of some sort of railway equipment that helps carrying heavy loads down tracks? A stretcher or trolley that sits on the running rails would be awesome. I've looked around on the internet but they all seem over the top, the loads carried would only be about 250kg at most. Ideally it'd be compact enough to fit in the back of a vehicle and light enough to be carried by one person, or two at a push.

Lofty132 posted:

Authorities claiming the derailed Nuclear Flask Train at Barrow had empty flasks anyway, I would have thought the police would have sufficed rather than the army in that case?

I didn't notice any of the Army there? Initial response was only a couple of units of police, there wasn't really anything going on at all! I don't even think CNC bothered to show up, it was BTP and Cumbria

Olewithmilk posted:

I was at a train station passenger lounge and decided to charge my phone for 10 minutes on one of the numerous spare plug sockets in the place. I was just getting up for my train and some guy sat next to me and asked if I'd gotten permission to use it. I told him no and, long story short, he said he was going to report me for "theft of electricity". I invited him to do so and gave him my name and partial address. I got on my train, saw that the guy had moved into the chair I was sitting in and was on his phone, inspecting the plug socket. I'm doing big laughs at the image of the police chuckling at him down the phone but I also am mad at myself for getting wound up and giving him my name. Am I danger of getting a visits from the British Transport Police or should I carry on laughing?

Abstracting electricity is an offence, however it must be dishonestly used, or dishonestly caused to be wasted or diverted. You can't steal electricity. You're fine, because nothing you did was dishonest. Presumably you didn't have to rip any locks off of the sockets or anything like that. In those kinds of circumstances, don't ever give your name and address to anyone other than a police officer!

Rail staff only have the power to request your name and address under the railway byelaws. Even then they are required to inform you which byelaw is being enforced, and must produce identification upon request that will show the name of their employer and a means to identify the person (I.E a photograph). It is handy reading the byelaws; according to them you could theoretically be forcibly ejected from a railway station for jumping a queue :britain:

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.

Hezzy posted:

It is handy reading the byelaws; according to them you could theoretically be forcibly ejected from a railway station for jumping a queue :britain:

That's not the best one, mandatory politeness is

10. Trains
(1) No person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that
door has passed through.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

That's not the best one, mandatory politeness is

10. Trains
(1) No person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that
door has passed through.


Wish this was actually enforced. There are a lot of shitheads at Wimbledon station every morning

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
I learnt today that AWS was (essentially) invented around 1931 - http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/Automatic-Signal-System-Is-Tested/4f72c743da6246039e169bad3fba6061

Thanks, British Movietone News.

Brovine
Dec 24, 2011

Mooooo?
In case it matters to anyone else: most trains in the south and east are cancelled entirely until at least 0900 tomorrow morning, and are expected to only run a reduced service for the rest of the morning. Most operators are advising people not to travel if they can avoid it; most specific-day tickets will be accepted on Tuesday instead.

Seeing as I'm supposed to be at work at 0700, I suspect I might be a little late...

Bozza
Mar 5, 2004

"I'm a really useful engine!"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

I learnt today that AWS was (essentially) invented around 1931 - http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/Automatic-Signal-System-Is-Tested/4f72c743da6246039e169bad3fba6061

Thanks, British Movietone News.

ATC was pretty clever, good bit of GWR engineering. The full scale implementation of AWS (BR standard) came in the '50s when there was serious issues with fog.

notaspy
Mar 22, 2009

So bozza, today's 14 years of work story. Loada bollocks?

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
It doesn't sound like it

Bozza posted:

My current project is remodelling Liverpool Lime Street station approaches because it's not been touched properly since the late 70s, and even that was a patch job.

To build the new layout, we are looking a 6 WEEK blockade. This is what you have to look forward too nationally if alternative routes aren't installed.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

notaspy posted:

So bozza, today's 14 years of work story. Loada bollocks?

It's probably not far off the mark. One of the many advantages of building a completely new line is that you avoid interfering with the existing network which cuts costs, disruption and delay considerably.

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
Good (sort of) news, everybody! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24753394#TWEET941121

quote:

HS2: Cameron hails 'vital programme' as MPs approve funding
Prime Minister David Cameron has said the HS2 rail project is an "absolutely vital programme" as MPs approved funding to prepare for the project.

Some Conservative MPs voted against the plans, but the bill easily cleared the Commons, moving the controversial line a step closer to becoming a reality.

MPs backed it by 350 votes to just 34.

Legislation releasing funds to pay for surveys, buy property and compensate evicted residents will now undergo further scrutiny in the Lords.

There has been speculation in recent weeks about whether Labour would withdraw its support for the project.

In June the government revised the estimated cost of building the high-speed link between London and the North of England from £32.7bn to £42.6bn.

Labour's shadow chancellor Ed Balls said last month that the coalition had "mismanaged" the scheme and warned there would be "no blank cheque" for HS2 if he became chancellor.

But Mr Cameron said he hoped Labour would "see sense, stop talking about pulling the plug on [the project] and get behind it".

Contd. page 94

We're preparing to prepare to build a railway!

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo
Lots of level crossings to close

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24754358

How do they do that, then? Bridge instead? Have to reroute somehow? It doesn't explicitly say but I imagine that's what they will do.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
In the US at least, problem level crossings that aren't worth installing better warning equipment at do typical involve the crossing being blocked, or in rare cases restricted to immediate local access only.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

thehustler posted:

Lots of level crossings to close

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24754358

How do they do that, then? Bridge instead? Have to reroute somehow? It doesn't explicitly say but I imagine that's what they will do.

It's obviously judged on a case-by-case basis - bridge, underpass, diversion or simply outright closure if appropriate. The easiest sensible option at the lowest cost, causing as little disruption to the railway as possible.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo
How does one close a crossing though? What happens to the line or road?

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

thehustler posted:

How does one close a crossing though? What happens to the line or road?

I don't really get what's confusing you - the line stays there, the road goes over, under or away. It's not a new thing, thousands of crossings have been closed in various different ways over the years.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo
It was "simply outright closure" that was confusing me as an option along with the other things you stated.

Brovine
Dec 24, 2011

Mooooo?
Depending on the local area, there may be multiple (level and non-level) crossings in relatively close proximity. You probably don't need to have multiple bridges if the traffic is light enough, so you would just completely close some of them and force traffic to use one single bridge.

That's just one possible situation where closing a crossing entirely is a good choice.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

thehustler posted:

It was "simply outright closure" that was confusing me as an option along with the other things you stated.

Tends to look like this: http://goo.gl/maps/LEclp

Sure that's in America, but just plain blocking the path works great.

Bozza
Mar 5, 2004

"I'm a really useful engine!"

thehustler posted:

It was "simply outright closure" that was confusing me as an option along with the other things you stated.

A lot of LXs are also in the middle of bloody nowhere, especially footpath crossings which are some of the most dangerous, so those just get shut with no replacement.

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
Crossrail are building flatpack stations for the above-ground section. I can only assume the people who live near where Surrey Canal Road was supposed to be are looking on with interest. http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2013/11/07/flatpack-train-station/#more-114213

Time Out posted:

Have you heard about the flatpack Crossrail stations?


We’ve heard of flatpack furniture, flatpack houses, and even flatpack trucks. But a flatpack train station? That’s exactly what’s being created in Steetley, a factory near Sheffield, where a £35 million Crossrail station for Custom House is being constructed before being transported to its London site to be assembled in 2015.



The station, which is being built by Laing O’Rourke, is being designed virtually using digital engineering. The specifications are then fed to the factory where the components are manufactured and pre-assembled. The idea behind the initiative is to save time and money and minimise disruption for residents near the new line. The final station will be constructed on the site of the former North London line station and will include a new ticket hall, an interchange with the DLR and step-free access between the platforms. Plans to enable customers to pick up their own station flatpacks have yet to be announced by IKEA but surely it’s only a matter of time.

Bozza
Mar 5, 2004

"I'm a really useful engine!"
"Plug and play", "modular" and "flatpack" type design is becoming a feature common to a lot of railway design as you can pre-test a lot of the components etc, they're all straight out of the factory, you plonk them in and away you go.

All about lowering the required possession time. Modular switch and crossings are supposed to do an S&C renewal which usually takes a 72hr all weekend possession in 2 (or 3, can't remember) midweek 8hr nights.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
So the Spectator are proposing yield management as it applies to Advance fares as an alternative to the passenger capacity crisis.

Then that gets shot out of the water by pointing out that the existence of walk-on fares makes that infeasible.

And then some says this:

quote:

The current situation in the UK for (each of) ticket prices, capacity utilisation of rolling stock and congestion management on the UK rail network is both wasteful and delay inducing.

A far better way to run this railroad would be to allow prices to vary continuously and to also sell tickets via national capacity exchanges, where options, futures and forwards on seats could be traded transparently.

I'll trade a seat on the 0715 Virgin ex Euston for 2 bitcoins!

HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

TinTower posted:

I'll trade a seat on the 0715 Virgin ex Euston for 2 bitcoins!

Couldn't some bastards enterprising individuals then just start speculating and driving the prices up for everyone else, what with there being a fixed amount of seats on rush hour trains and a pretty unchanging demand for said seats?

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

HortonNash posted:

Couldn't some bastards enterprising individuals then just start speculating and driving the prices up for everyone else, what with there being a fixed amount of seats on rush hour trains and a pretty unchanging demand for said seats?

Yes. In fact train companies would love to do this if the pesky government didn't cap their prices.

Wootcannon
Jan 23, 2010

HAIL SATAN, PRINCE OF LIES

TinTower posted:


And then some says this:

quote:

The current situation in the UK for (each of) ticket prices, capacity utilisation of rolling stock and congestion management on the UK rail network is both wasteful and delay inducing.

A far better way to run this railroad would be to allow prices to vary continuously and to also sell tickets via national capacity exchanges, where options, futures and forwards on seats could be traded transparently.

I'll trade a seat on the 0715 Virgin ex Euston for 2 bitcoins!

That has to be a parody, surely to god noone can be proposing something that byzantine and inflationary in all seriousness?

penus de milo
Mar 9, 2002

CHAR CHAR

Wootcannon posted:

That has to be a parody, surely to god noone can be proposing something that byzantine and inflationary in all seriousness?

Stop thinking about the economic reality of it, the point is exchanges are freedom are always good.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug
Virgin are doing some sort of November first class seat sale. It kinda just sounds like they're advertising advance tickets but all covered in glitter and such

Paul.Power
Feb 7, 2009

The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Allan Assiduity posted:

Speaking of rail investment, the Welsh Assembly Government approved the South Wales Metro recently. Any opinions on if the measures it includes would be useful?


If nothing else, electrifying the lines seems like it'd be a positive move?
It seems like a good idea - although as someone who lives in Swansea, every time I see something like this I get the feeling that my adoptive hometown is becoming increasingly marginalised as Newport and the Valleys benefit from their closeness to Cardiff. That's probably just jealousy, though.

Brovine
Dec 24, 2011

Mooooo?
Whilst on my rather epic trek to work and back today - via Broxbourne, Chingford, Liverpool Street, Stratford and Canning town, involving three trains, a bus, a tube and the DLR - I noticed something. On the Chingford line I saw a hell of a lot of different designs of OHLE masts/gantries - at one point I think there were five different styles in the space of six masts.

I suspect this is due to reusing components on minor lines that have been removed during re-wiring on major routes - is that right? And is that common?

LemonDrizzle
Mar 28, 2012

neoliberal shithead

Paul.Power posted:

It seems like a good idea - although as someone who lives in Swansea, every time I see something like this I get the feeling that my adoptive hometown is becoming increasingly marginalised as Newport and the Valleys benefit from their closeness to Cardiff. That's probably just jealousy, though.

In all fairness, Newport and the valleys are in such appalling shape in just about every possible way that they desperately need any help they can get.

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008
My train home this evening had, in the first carriage, one set of doors that could only be opened from the outside and another set of doors that couldn't be opened at all. Of course, both sets opened just fine on the (other) side that everyone got on the train at the terminus.
Greater Anglia :shepicide:

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005
Fallen Rib

Brovine posted:

...On the Chingford line I saw a hell of a lot of different designs of OHLE masts/gantries - at one point I think there were five different styles in the space of six masts.

I suspect this is due to reusing components on minor lines that have been removed during re-wiring on major routes - is that right? And is that common?

Oooh, interesting question. OLE masts come from a standard catalogue so they are in theory reusable, however they are usually massively overdesigned designed with spare capacity for future upgrades so serviceable spare components would be unusual. The logistical challenge of wiring a route with spare parts would be tricky too, a bit like making a new jigsaw from bits of old ones.

So, OLE masts can be different sizes if they're supporting different numbers of wires. At a junction especially, you might see a 152UC 'I beam' mast, then a 305DC 'back to back channel with channel crosspieces' then a 4 angle 'lattice' mast, then a paired UC '2 I beams joined together' mast.
That there would be going up the sizes from a puny "i can barely support one pair of wires" to all out pants bursting "I span up to 32m and I can support six sets of wires plus four end of wire anchorages with a three tonne transformer hanging off each side".

You might also have seen signal gantries, which again would be common near junctions. These can be all sorts of designs. OLE masts though, always have one of these on.
The plate with numbers, I mean, not the "danger overhead live wires" sign. That usually goes without saying.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
I was talking at the Northern Hub proposals in depth with an acquaintance of mine, and we touched on how the plans seem to be less ambitious than it should be. In particular, they seem content to have only one transpennine route up for electrification despite both Manchester-to-Liverpool routes and both routes out of Leeds getting wires. It seems doubly strange given how the Calder Valley route is often used as a backup route.

Is there any other examples where the Northern Hub could've been improved? Actually putting the Hull electrification in the original plans than adding them on at First's insistence would've been an example.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug
Does anyone know a place I can look up unit numbers based off of headcodes? It's for work and I'd rather not ring up control rooms every time I needed them! I don't have access to TRUST or TOPS

Rude Dude With Tude
Apr 19, 2007

Your President approves this text.
Virgin Trains have embarked on a unique plan to reduce passenger congestion around the ticket barriers at Chester station: bypassing them completely.

Bozza
Mar 5, 2004

"I'm a really useful engine!"

TinTower posted:

I was talking at the Northern Hub proposals in depth with an acquaintance of mine, and we touched on how the plans seem to be less ambitious than it should be. In particular, they seem content to have only one transpennine route up for electrification despite both Manchester-to-Liverpool routes and both routes out of Leeds getting wires. It seems doubly strange given how the Calder Valley route is often used as a backup route.

Is there any other examples where the Northern Hub could've been improved? Actually putting the Hull electrification in the original plans than adding them on at First's insistence would've been an example.

More money spent on it for one thing - we're currently having to go cap in hand to the DfT for more money for Liverpool Lime Street because they neglected it from the scope. Trying to run 8 car units on lines which are currently 2 car Pacers is somewhat challenging to say the least.

Also, if we had any sort of rolling stock construction industry left, we should be getting nice new shiny trains sent up to the north west, not a load of recycled 319s.

Metrication
Dec 12, 2010

Raskin had one problem: Jobs regarded him as an insufferable theorist or, to use Jobs's own more precise terminology, "a shithead who sucks".
How will engineering works happen on the '24 hours tube lines'?

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Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

Metrication posted:

How will engineering works happen on the '24 hours tube lines'?

The other 5 days of the week.

And weekend closures for big jobs.

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