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Sash! posted:There's some line where he says "that was before the Klingons joined the Federation." Someone confirms that. I'm pretty sure its a lovely episode. That was Samaritan Snare. I like to think Captain Picard didn't contradict Wesley's rather obvious mistake because he couldn't be bothered talking to the little poo poo any more than was absolutely necessary. And who could blame him
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Oct 28, 2013 02:28
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Figaro posted:I like to think Captain Picard didn't contradict Wesley's rather obvious mistake because he couldn't be bothered talking to the little poo poo any more than was absolutely necessary.
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Oct 28, 2013 02:56
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"You don't deserve to wear that uniform!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xefh7W1nVo4 This was a great scene. Amazing acting from Stewart, as usual, and a good moral lesson too.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:00
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This is becoming a speech.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:55
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"Samaritan Snare" also has the absolute best example of Worf being denied; when the Pakleds ask for the chief engineer to come over and help install the technobauble they need Worf describes exactly how they're setting the trap and prepping to gently caress over the crew later, and Riker just goes "come on don't be paranoid, they're just space retards" and totally ignores him. In retrospect, I think the writer was taking the piss on the whole thing and nobody caught on.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:59
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Mister Kingdom posted:Remember that ring-shaped Enterprise? Well, you can buy a model of it now. The fact that someone would pay 1500 dollars for a model of a design that only ever appeared as a vague background painting or desktop flair makes me feel kind of sad. I mean, cool design or not there's no emotional attachment to the vehicle as there might be with practically any other design at this point; who pines for the Ringship Enterprise? At least, badly enough to justify that kind of expenditure. At that point, do the nerds who buy this stuff even pay attention to what they're shelling out for or do they just instinctively blurt "STAAAAHHTREEEEEEEEK" and mash the Buy Now button?
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Oct 28, 2013 04:19
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All I know is that it's what they drat well should have used for Enterprise instead of the NX-01.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:36
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superh posted:All I know is that it's what they drat well should have used for Enterprise instead of the NX-01. I really disagree. Its a cool design but it just plain doesn't fit with anything else we've seen from the federation in Trek. The Enterprises have a consistent theme which is completely distinct from anything else in sci-fi, and throwing that history away would be both a bad artistic and business move. The design is good but it belongs in something with a hard sci-fi edge like 2001 or something. Its fine enough for a background item nobody will notice, but for a series ship it would be wildly inappropriate for for Trek.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:09
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Tighclops posted:The fact that someone would pay 1500 dollars for a model of a design that only ever appeared as a vague background painting or desktop flair makes me feel kind of sad. I mean, cool design or not there's no emotional attachment to the vehicle as there might be with practically any other design at this point; who pines for the Ringship Enterprise? At least, badly enough to justify that kind of expenditure. It looks cool, I guess if you were in the market for some kind of science fiction decoration for your house and you've got $1500 to blow it's less embarrassing than a big model of the Enterprise.
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Oct 28, 2013 06:04
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TOOT BOOT posted:It looks cool, I guess if you were in the market for some kind of science fiction decoration for your house and you've got $1500 to blow it's less embarrassing than a big model of the Enterprise. Until they ask about it.
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Oct 28, 2013 06:35
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I watched "A Matter of Time," today. God what a great episode. I'm not sure if the twist ending makes the episode better though. It was certainly kind of neat because I didn't really see that particular outcome of the foreshadowing coming, but on the other hand I kind of feel like it dodged a chance at having a really poignant finale carrying forward from that absolutely excellent discussion between Picard and the historian about the temporal prime directive. It would have been interesting to see how the crew would have responded in the end to a slightly arrogant, self-assured superior power glide in, drop the prime directive on them during a crises and leave with as much certitude as he came in with without betraying that principle. I'm always sad when a chance for an introspective question ending gets passed up.
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Oct 28, 2013 06:57
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Rewatching VOY I'm amazed how little the writers used Q as a plot device. Once they brought John de Lancie back the first time I would've expected a once a season appearance.
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Oct 28, 2013 09:39
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I really disagree. Its a cool design but it just plain doesn't fit with anything else we've seen from the federation in Trek. The Enterprises have a consistent theme which is completely distinct from anything else in sci-fi, and throwing that history away would be both a bad artistic and business move. The design is good but it belongs in something with a hard sci-fi edge like 2001 or something. Its fine enough for a background item nobody will notice, but for a series ship it would be wildly inappropriate for for Trek. (Jeffries' early Enterprise designs, one of which became the USS Daedalus)  Not to mention that the matte paintings in TOS often have the same kind of mid-century hard sci-fi book-cover aesthetic. I think it would have worked for TOS or around that time, but by the time you get to 2005 nobody expects that from Star Trek any more. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 12:04
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I've been rewatching DS9 because it's been a few years, and man Fascination is a poop episode. I get it's supposed to have character stuff and whimsy and be "fun trek" but I guess I just really hate Midsummer Night's Dream and everyone is just super irritating. Plus, Lwaxana being particularly awful. I usually don't even mind her too.
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Oct 28, 2013 12:05
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Mister Kingdom posted:Remember that ring-shaped Enterprise? Well, you can buy a model of it now. I'm pretty sure that's just an early human ripoff of Vulcan designs of the time. Also, the ring is where the warp nacelles are, and don't look like they're occupied at all, so no centrifugal force for you. The thing about vomiting is interesting, does the same apply to those carnival rides that do basically the same thing? 
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Oct 28, 2013 12:08
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TOOT BOOT posted:It looks cool, I guess if you were in the market for some kind of science fiction decoration for your house and you've got $1500 to blow it's less embarrassing than a big model of the Enterprise. I think someone that spends $1500 on a Trek model isn't going to get embarrassed about being a Trek fan. Still looks cool!
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Oct 28, 2013 12:52
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McSpanky posted:"Samaritan Snare" also has the absolute best example of Worf being denied; when the Pakleds ask for the chief engineer to come over and help install the technobauble they need Worf describes exactly how they're setting the trap and prepping to gently caress over the crew later, and Riker just goes "come on don't be paranoid, they're just space retards" and totally ignores him. In retrospect, I think the writer was taking the piss on the whole thing and nobody caught on. Actually it's even better than that. First Worf questions the logic of sending their chief engineer over when a junoir memeber could do it, and Riker ignores him. Then later he says that he doesn't trust the Pakleds and they should send a security team over, and Riker ignores him again. Then TROI comes up to the bridge and says the Pakleds are up to something and to get Geordi out of there, and Riker ignores her too! So really Riker is completely to blame for the whole situation. No wonder he was stuck as first officer for ten years. Deadman63 fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 14:48
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Tighclops posted:The fact that someone would pay 1500 dollars for a model of a design that only ever appeared as a vague background painting or desktop flair makes me feel kind of sad. I mean, cool design or not there's no emotional attachment to the vehicle as there might be with practically any other design at this point; who pines for the Ringship Enterprise? At least, badly enough to justify that kind of expenditure. Yeah, I love the design and all, but I feel like any hardcore crazy Star Trek fan with $1,500 to blow would rather spend it on 25 Enterprise Refit models then one model ship that only showed up in one painting.
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Oct 28, 2013 14:59
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Ew, who would want a Connie-R? 
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Oct 28, 2013 15:03
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Apple Jax posted:Yeah, I love the design and all, but I feel like any hardcore crazy Star Trek fan with $1,500 to blow would rather spend it on 25 Enterprise Refit models then one model ship that only showed up in one painting. Apple Jax I think what you meant to say was blow $1500 on commissioning a 46" long E-refit model. Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Ew, who would want a Connie-R? please don't troll
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Oct 28, 2013 15:42
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Sanguinia posted:I watched "A Matter of Time," today. God what a great episode. I'm not sure if the twist ending makes the episode better though. It was certainly kind of neat because I didn't really see that particular outcome of the foreshadowing coming, but on the other hand I kind of feel like it dodged a chance at having a really poignant finale carrying forward from that absolutely excellent discussion between Picard and the historian about the temporal prime directive. It's a really well done episode, I think, because of the twist, and really highlights the whole "Worf is actually always right" situation that pops up on TNG. They let the supposed historian from the 26th century have near free reign on the ship, despite not being able to verify his story or his credentials, and over the security chief's objections and over the empath noting that he's hiding something big. Fake edit: And that episode is worth it for Rasmussmen telling Data that, "We should be on our way back to a place called...New Jersey.  "
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Oct 28, 2013 15:51
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Picard is actually pretty poo poo when it comes to captaining, just an 'FYI'.
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Oct 28, 2013 15:56
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:please don't troll Look, I'm not saying it should be hauled away as garbage, but
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Oct 28, 2013 15:58
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Sprat Sandwich posted:Picard is actually pretty poo poo when it comes to captaining, just an 'FYI'. The same could be said of all Star Trek captains if you really want to get into that.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:50
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DrSunshine posted:Is it just me, or is this design incredibly cool and futuristic? It's not just you, it's super cool. The XCV-330 is so rad because it looks like it could be a real life, honest to God spaceship made 100 years from now. It looks like something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey or something NASA would design. How cool would it be to see a hard science fiction series about a ship like the XCV-330? It would be soooooooooo coooooool to see more of this Enterprise beyond some painting on the wall and a model on Admiral Robocop's desk. Sash! posted:I recently learned there are a lot of complications with the spinning ring thing. Apparently if you turn your head perpendicular to the direction of rotation, it makes you puke. I think it depends on the size \ speed of the ring \ rotation, but yeah, you may get dizziness and nausea from that, especially if you whip your head around really fast. Also, due to the Coriolis effect, things will not fall straight down but at an angle. The earth is large enough so you don't notice it, but if you were to jump downspin on a spaceship or space colony, you would jump twice as far, or if you jumped upspin, you'd go half as far, or you might even wind up in the exact same spot, as the ring of a spaceship or colony is far, far smaller than the earth. Needless to say, if you're going on a long space voyage or want to live at one of the Lagrangian points, you may want to stock up on Dramamine so you don't barf. ... Also the Refit Connie is the single best looking Star Trek ship ever, even better than the Galaxy class.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:19
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The same could be said of all Star Trek captains if you really want to get into that. Well yeah, but look at that Worf video - how many times did Picard drive to a place with shields down and got blasted. Kirk at least went to yellow every time a Klingon/space blob/god appeared (cue episodes where he didn't).
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Oct 28, 2013 17:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The same could be said of all Star Trek captains if you really want to get into that.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:55
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Whalley posted:Even the worst captain is better than the average admiral. Why are admirals so constantly poo poo. So the captain can stick it to the man.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:17
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Whalley posted:Even the worst captain is better than the average admiral. Why are admirals so constantly poo poo. What about Janeway in which she is both?
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Oct 28, 2013 18:20
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Whalley posted:Even the worst captain is better than the average admiral. Why are admirals so constantly poo poo. Because the crew is a happy family family and always right and nobody can be more right, this is important for the narrative. -Gene Roddenberry
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Oct 28, 2013 18:22
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I think it's an unspoken rule in Starfleet that Captain is where the action is at, so you keep your best people at Captain and the sucky ones who have too much seniority or are too well connected or lucked into too much public attention get booted upstairs to a harmless Admiralty. I mean, how else can you explain Sisko being the one giving all the important orders throughout the Dominion War if Captain isn't really the more important rank? And by that logic it makes perfect sense that once Janeway got back home the first thing Starfleet did was get her off the bridge of a starship and made her an Admiral...
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Oct 28, 2013 18:27
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jng2058 posted:I think it's an unspoken rule in Starfleet that Captain is where the action is at, so you keep your best people at Captain and the sucky ones who have too much seniority or are too well connected or lucked into too much public attention get booted upstairs to a harmless Admiralty. I mean, how else can you explain Sisko being the one giving all the important orders throughout the Dominion War if Captain isn't really the more important rank? The Sisko got the important orders since he was right next to the wormhole and the Bajorians refused to have anyone other than him run the station.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:35
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It's easy to find reasons but it really is just for narrative purposes. The characters we know and love from being on adventures with them every week are the ones in the right, and their central authority higher-ups are either bumbling incompetents who refuse to believe good advice about the ongoing conspiracy or else they're evil authoritarians who eat bowls full of bugs or are secretly liquids. It's pretty common in procedurals but also in any fiction that has an office with branches, also in real life corporations that are centralized and have a lot of middle management.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:40
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Bicyclops posted:It's easy to find reasons but it really is just for narrative purposes. The characters we know and love from being on adventures with them every week are the ones in the right, and their central authority higher-ups are either bumbling incompetents who refuse to believe good advice about the ongoing conspiracy or else they're evil authoritarians who eat bowls full of bugs or are secretly liquids. Also I think most people suspect their boss eats bowls full of bugs and is secretly a liquid.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:42
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And at the battle in "Sacrifice of Angels"? Where there are like two whole Fleets involved? Why was Sisko in charge then? I don't think the political preferences of a neutral power when DS9 isn't under Federation control should entitle Captain Sisko to command a fleet! That's literally what an admiral's job is...to lead a fleet! Now obviously from a dramatic standpoint it was to make sure the characters and actors we're following are the ones making the critical decisions. Law of Drama and all that. But in-universe it shows that Starfleet Admirals can't do their only real job...you need a Captain in charge. For that matter, let's go back to Picard during "Redemption Part II". Starfleet needs a taskforce to eliminate Romulan interference in the Klingon Civil War. Is there an Admiral on-site and in charge? Nope. Senior Captain, in this case Picard, is in charge. Same thing in Nemesis. Picard gets assigned to run the task force to stop the Scimitar, not an Admiral. The only times you see an Admiral in battle are the guy who gets killed at Wolf 359, and Ross at the Battle of Cardassia at the end of the war, and he ends up deferring to Sisko every time there's a question of what to do. As far as all the evidence shows, Starfleet Admirals are bureaucrats and paper-pushers, while Captains are the ones with the real authority to get poo poo done.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:45
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edit: ^^^^ I think Kirk more or less says that in about half of the movies, that being an admiral is boring and awful and a place where careers go to quietly die.Phy posted:Also I think most people suspect their boss eats bowls full of bugs and is secretly a liquid. It's another reason it is a good narrative device because everyone is like "I am just a hardworking fellow trying to get my job done but GOD this JERK in his own special office with a window wants all this loving paperwork! What is he, some kind of space alien who hates progress and work? Do they have a conspiracy against me finishing this spreadsheet or something?" and then woop, in Star Trek that is literally true.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:47
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jng2058 posted:I think it's an unspoken rule in Starfleet that Captain is where the action is at, so you keep your best people at Captain and the sucky ones who have too much seniority or are too well connected or lucked into too much public attention get booted upstairs to a harmless Admiralty. I mean, how else can you explain Sisko being the one giving all the important orders throughout the Dominion War if Captain isn't really the more important rank? Bicyclops posted:edit: ^^^^ I think Kirk more or less says that in about half of the movies, that being an admiral is boring and awful and a place where careers go to quietly die.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:01
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Recently, I've been thinking that the same personality traits (cool, dry, indefatigable, somewhat dorky) which make Janeway such an underwhelming corvette captain would make her a great administrator. That line of thought means trying to separate Janeway's intended personality from the lovely writing in that show though, and welp. Voyager is the loving worst because they took all these things that should work and just loving farted all the hell over it. Voyager shouldn't have been a ship custom built for long range exploration. Janeway should have been piloting a fuckin' Miranda or Nova class, something that is meant for constant returns for repairs and restocking. God that show is such a mess.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:14
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I watched "The Inner Light" last night and I know it's already accepted canon that it's a great TNG episode, but I would say it's more than a great Star Trek episode. It's great television in general and if I had to recommend any single episode it would be that one, beating out Skin of Evil. Star Trek is the tits.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:24
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Whalley posted:Janeway's intended personality is perfect for a science vessel - she's a huge nerd about science poo poo and gets legit excited about the idea of checking out a nebula, or theorizing engineering stuff with her crew. She's capable of stepping up and getting her hands dirty in a way she wouldn't want her crew to do, she can put the needs of the many above the few and she can be the lone scientist in a group of nerds to say "Look, this is super cool but honestly we shouldn't be here, I want to know too but gently caress, guys, we got rules and stuff." She wouldn't be a good captain on an exploratory vessel, or a military ship; she'd suck at running a space station and she'd fall to pieces with boredom running patrols or shipping, but a science vessel, she's built for that. I agree that Voyager's treatment of Janeway is a massive missed opportunity, but for slightly different reasons. I mean, having someone doing a thing that her personality isn't suited for is a good plot hook, since (if the writers don't suck) she'll react to the new thing and change. It's also interesting that such a massive dork would volunteer for Maquis-hunting in a frigate. (The show says the Voyager is built for long range travel, but that's bullshit--she's tiny and fast. That's a pirate hunter, which is what we see her doing in the pilot.) My guess is that she's trying to prove to herself that she's got zip, one last fling before a life of pencil-pushing (which she actually enjoys and is good at). Which itself says something interesting about her personality--who she is, who she wants to be, who she might grow to become. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 19:40
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