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A PART-TIME JOB?! aren't you supposed to be "disabled," you malingering piece of poo poo?
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Oct 28, 2013 15:59
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TenementFunster posted:A PART-TIME JOB?! aren't you supposed to be "disabled," you malingering piece of poo poo? VA compensation isn't the same as SS disability. It comes regardless of other employment and is tax free. John McCain collects VA disability compensation.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:13
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Mr. Nice! posted:Just heard in the hallway on my way to class. I don't think you've mentioned which school you go to, but it seems like it's in Florida, and there aren't any T14s in Florida so the students at the school have good enough reason to be stressed. "Middle of the pack" only really gets you a good job if you're at a T14 and a couple of other schools. Maybe if you're at University of Florida, the top school in Florida, then middle of the pack might be okay, I don't know, Prussian Advisor would know better. But even at T14s, plenty of people don't get good enough grades to get good jobs. Somebody has to end up in that bottom X% of the class. You can't go to law school for free and then expect other people to be relaxed, I know this from experience. And on top of that, you have veterans' preference, which is really useful for getting a job. Some or a lot of your classmates will legitimately be hosed so stop telling them to relax. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 16:43
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I'm at FSU, which while not t14, is tier 1 and in the top 25 schools annually (best in Florida) for JD required jobs after school. I'm not saying they don't need to work. Just that stress is bad, and they should breathe once in a while. This is the most free time they'll have for quite some time. It isn't healthy to bury yourself in stress. Sometimes you just need to go play with a dog.
Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 16:48
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Mr. Nice! posted:I'm at FSU, which while not t14, is tier 1 and in the top 25 schools annually (best in Florida) for JD required jobs after school. I'm not saying they don't need to work. Just that stress is bad, and they should breathe once in a while. This is the most free time they'll have for quite some time. It isn't healthy to bury yourself in stress. Sometimes you just need to go play with a dog.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:54
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Yeah I don't go to class under the influence. That would just be silly. But I can see your point. I'm really not too preachy, and there are people here who agree with me. I just find the people going nuts over what hasn't really been any larger a course load than undergrad humorous.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:05
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah I don't go to class under the influence. That would just be silly. But I can see your point. I'm really not too preachy, and there are people here who agree with me. I just find the people going nuts over what hasn't really been any larger a course load than undergrad humorous. You are definitely right about the free time thing, and I think there's nothing wrong with reminding people about that. People in the law school bubble who are planning to go into private firms seem to think that somehow their current lives require more work than the 80-100 hour week jobs they're going to be doing after law school. Especially once you're in 3L year, in which case I have no problem telling some of my classmates with jobs lined up to relax and take advantage of the unusual amount of free time they have available right now.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:13
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Mr. Nice! posted:I'm at FSU, which while not t14, is tier 1 and in the top 25 schools annually (best in Florida) for JD required jobs after school. I'm not saying they don't need to work. Just that stress is bad, and they should breathe once in a while. This is the most free time they'll have for quite some time. It isn't healthy to bury yourself in stress. Sometimes you just need to go play with a dog. Somewhere, a human being read this and turned into a Republican.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:15
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah I don't go to class under the influence. That would just be silly. But I can see your point. I'm really not too preachy, and there are people here who agree with me. I just find the people going nuts over what hasn't really been any larger a course load than undergrad humorous. While I agree that law school stress is ridiculous and law school attracts the kind of people who exaggerate how much they are working and stressing to sound like they're working harder than they are, first semester is a pretty good time to be putting in a lot of extra effort. 1L grades, and first semester grades in particular, are really, really important in lining up summer and post-graduation jobs. What I'm saying is: now is the time to stress and study. Don't be in the middle of the pack, be in the top third, or top ten percent. Then leverage your veteran's preference to get a sweet gig, then blow off 2L and 3L years.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:15
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah I don't go to class under the influence. That would just be silly. But I can see your point. I'm really not too preachy, and there are people here who agree with me. I just find the people going nuts over what hasn't really been any larger a course load than undergrad humorous. It's not about the course load, nobody is going nuts over the 1 hour of reading you have to do per day. It's the fact that you have one year where you must do well, and in that one year your only grades are final exams that can be total crapshoots (Legal Writing aside). So you go insane working as hard as possible (above and beyond what's necessary) and the stress becomes self-perpetuating, especially at FSU where if you aren't near the top it can be a struggle after law school. I'm glad you've found your zen place but it very difficult to find when they have the career guillotine hanging over their head. mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 17:16
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I totally understand where you guys are coming from. I guess I'm kindof a dick. I don't mean to be, so it's nice to hear when I am so that I can work to correct it. I'm just enjoying life for the first time in a long time and want to share the chill.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:32
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SlyFrog posted:Somewhere, a human being read this and turned into a Republican. Human beings don't read this thread
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Oct 28, 2013 17:55
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Mr. Nice! posted:I totally understand where you guys are coming from. I guess I'm kindof a dick. I don't mean to be, so it's nice to hear when I am so that I can work to correct it. You're an idiot. WORK HARD YOUR FIRST YEAR IN LAW SCHOOL AND THEN COAST.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:15
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CaptainScraps posted:You're an idiot. I never said I wasn't doing the work. I just think there is a level when it's overkill and counterproductive.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:39
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And you're very far from that point.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:13
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Mr. Nice! posted:I never said I wasn't doing the work. I just think there is a level when it's overkill and counterproductive. If you want a big firm job, you need to go past that level. All of their pleadings and motions are overkill.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:40
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CaptainScraps posted:If you want a big firm job, you need to go past that level. I don't care about all of that. I'm not gunning for a job like that in the first place. I'd much rather work for some place that represents vets for the VA and other such. I might only make $50,000 a year, but I don't need a lot of money. I just want to do something to help people who've been in my shoes. I've had it work out pretty well for me and I figure I owe just as much back to the people who are far worse off then I am.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:53
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Mr. Nice! posted:I don't care about all of that. I'm not gunning for a job like that in the first place. I'd much rather work for some place that represents vets for the VA and other such. I might only make $50,000 a year, but I don't need a lot of money. I just want to do something to help people who've been in my shoes. I've had it work out pretty well for me and I figure I owe just as much back to the people who are far worse off then I am. How much work have you done in figuring out how many of those jobs there are, what the entry requirements are, what the experience requirements are, how much federal veteran's preference helps you, whether they have summer or other internships you could do to get your foot in the door/make a friendly contact that can line you up a job later? Just because government and/or nonprofit work doesn't pay as well as big firm work doesn't mean it isn't as competitive. Veteran's work may be more specialized and your veteran's preference will certainly help, but better grades can only help you get your foot in the door. Plus in the event you don't get that gig, they'll help you land something else to get 3-7 years of experience to lateral into something veteran's related. To give you an example, it's probably just as hard to get a job with a local prosecutor's office here in Utah as it is to get a job with a firm. (Harder in that there are fewer spots but easier in that the grade standards are slightly lower because they care more about relevant experience like trial advocacy and criminal work)
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Oct 28, 2013 21:10
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100% copy and pasted troll from 2010.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:27
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At first glance it reminded me of entris' answer to a "how can I thank the ACLU" post a while back, but I think the opportunities for hang-out-your-shingle VA benefit work are going to expand in the next few years. Maybe not exciting work, or 50k to start, but not very stressful and occasionally rewarding. Also, Mr. Nice has probably been exposed to stress beyond the very narrow High School/College/Law School stress that the high academically achieving 22 year-olds we're talking about have experienced. Mr. Nice! posted:It isn't healthy to bury yourself in stress. Sometimes you just need to go play with a dog. 
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Oct 28, 2013 21:49
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I haven't posted in here in a while, but I just want to say that I'm really hoping that I'm on the bar pass list in a couple of days. I've been clerking FT at a county attorney's office and they offered me a job contingent on passing the bar a few months ago. I know normally that an "offer" from local gov doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the fact that they have basically given me an attorney's workload and told me to run with it (contacting/meeting with clients, ordering around secretaries, making judgement calls, etc.) makes me think it's for real. This may be the worst question in the world, but assuming that I stay here for a few years, what are the chances of moving to private practice at some point? (I'm guessing that BIGLAW is pretty close to zero, but maybe a smaller firm?) Or is it all dependent on what type of work I'm doing?
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Oct 28, 2013 23:43
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Mr. Nice! posted:I'm at FSU, which while not t14, is tier 1 and in the top 25 schools annually (best in Florida) for JD required jobs after school. I'm not saying they don't need to work. Just that stress is bad, and they should breathe once in a while. This is the most free time they'll have for quite some time. It isn't healthy to bury yourself in stress. Sometimes you just need to go play with a dog. I get where you're coming from, but Florida's legal market is a big flaming pile of poo poo. A guy I SA'd with was at FSU and he estimated that like 15% of the class was employed at graduation. A guy I know at FSU is in the top 5 people, not percent, and he doesn't have a summer gig lined up. Don't think middle of the pack is close to good enough.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:24
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Omerta posted:I get where you're coming from, but Florida's legal market is a big flaming pile of poo poo. A guy I SA'd with was at FSU and he estimated that like 15% of the class was employed at graduation. A guy I know at FSU is in the top 5 people, not percent, and he doesn't have a summer gig lined up. Don't think middle of the pack is close to good enough. 15% is a little low from what I know of my class there (2012), but it's still not great regardless. Many of them ended up taking PD jobs that they didn't want either because there was just no other option. The people near the top did well.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:35
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Mr. Nice! posted:I don't care about all of that. I'm not gunning for a job like that in the first place. I'd much rather work for some place that represents vets for the VA and other such. I might only make $50,000 a year, but I don't need a lot of money. I just want to do something to help people who've been in my shoes. I've had it work out pretty well for me and I figure I owe just as much back to the people who are far worse off then I am. I'm VA certified and have been practicing VA law for 2.5 years. The problem with it is it takes FOREVER to get paid. My last boss decided VA was not economically feasible and axed it. I was able to take a few cases with me to my new job but they too are not inclined to give it resources because it just takes so long. Not saying you couldn't do it, but you would need to be able to survive for quite a while before your first check came in. E: To give you an idea of how slow we are talking, a file I started working on in 2011 just got a favorable decision resulting in a fee of around $9000. That's the only file that has produced money since I started. The Board of Veterans Appeals is just now finishing up decisions on the 2010 docket. Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 00:52
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Yeah, they work excruciatingly slow. I just filed my appeal and if it comes back favorable I'll have enough to live on independent of any job I do or do not have. Right now I'm getting enough that I could do alright without a job right away, but not for terribly long after that without tapping into savings.
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Oct 29, 2013 01:12
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah, they work excruciatingly slow. I just filed my appeal and if it comes back favorable I'll have enough to live on independent of any job I do or do not have. Right now I'm getting enough that I could do alright without a job right away, but not for terribly long after that without tapping into savings. Check your PMs.
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Oct 29, 2013 02:00
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William Munny posted:This may be the worst question in the world, but assuming that I stay here for a few years, what are the chances of moving to private practice at some point? (I'm guessing that BIGLAW is pretty close to zero, but maybe a smaller firm?) Or is it all dependent on what type of work I'm doing? BigLaw is probably out unless you luck into a huge client or become prominent enough that you'd be good for marketing. Moving into private practice should be doable, but yeah it depends on what you're doing. I would think smaller local firms may have some interest in someone familiar with the local government, but it seems like you'd also want to be able to bring some general litigation and transactional skills to the table for practices of that size.
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Oct 29, 2013 13:04
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Mr. Nice! posted:I never said I wasn't doing the work. I just think there is a level when it's overkill and counterproductive. The takeaway from your experience is not that people need to relax but rather that law is an exploitive and alienating profession, undergoing a shift into an even more exploitive and alienating commodity-model of practice. The solution isn't to relax, it's to organize and get involved to create a legal system (and legal education system) that more effectively serves both ordinary people and practitioners.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:41
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:The takeaway from your experience is not that people need to relax but rather that law is an exploitive and alienating profession, undergoing a shift into an even more exploitive and alienating commodity-model of practice. The solution isn't to relax, it's to organize and get involved to create a legal system (and legal education system) that more effectively serves both ordinary people and practitioners. Sounds good but there is no incentive to organize when the entire system is structured as adversarial.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:48
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  http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2013/10/cleveland-state-.html
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Oct 29, 2013 16:44
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If I had a dollar for every time I had to advise a client not to give their employees the mark of the beast...
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Oct 29, 2013 17:06
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Roger_Mudd posted:Sounds good but there is no incentive to organize when the entire system is structured as adversarial. I don't think the adversarial nature of the legal system (which also is hardly set in stone) is necessarily all that different from any other competitive business as far as the interests of legal workers are concerned. e: Hail Satan DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 17:41
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:e: Hail Satan
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Oct 29, 2013 17:50
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Well, my girlfriend just dumped me because I've been frustrated and unemployed since graduating law school and she's tired of my negativity. Don't go, no jobs, get dumped.
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Oct 29, 2013 19:02
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oh my god direwolf's posting is a perfect parabola of why law school is loving horrible
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Oct 29, 2013 22:04
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TenementFunster posted:oh my god direwolf's posting is a perfect parabola of why law school is loving horrible 
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Oct 29, 2013 22:48
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the milk machine posted:BigLaw is probably out unless you luck into a huge client or become prominent enough that you'd be good for marketing. Moving into private practice should be doable, but yeah it depends on what you're doing. This is what I figured. Although I would be starting in one specific area, they start all their new attorneys there, even if they're coming in with years of experience (the attorney whose practice area I would be taking over came in with 20+ yrs experience and at the highest point on the career ladder). She is focused on that area, but still gets tasked with work that relates to her previous job (elections). I am in the transactional practice, so I do get some general experience in that regard as well as more specialized work (tax mostly).
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Oct 29, 2013 23:46
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mods please add to op mods edit. you need to throw in the stuff about northwestern setting up mixers with med school students to help law students find potential mates with "good careers" to bring the last post full circle. tia. TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 23:58
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Direwolf posted:Well, my girlfriend just dumped me because I've been frustrated and unemployed since graduating law school and she's tired of my negativity. My Chicago firm is hiring. Would you like to take people's homes and give them to banks with me? You'll also get to drive hundreds of miles a week in heavy traffic!!
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Oct 30, 2013 00:10
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William Munny posted:This is what I figured. Although I would be starting in one specific area, they start all their new attorneys there, even if they're coming in with years of experience (the attorney whose practice area I would be taking over came in with 20+ yrs experience and at the highest point on the career ladder). She is focused on that area, but still gets tasked with work that relates to her previous job (elections). I am in the transactional practice, so I do get some general experience in that regard as well as more specialized work (tax mostly). That sounds it could be a pretty decent time. Honestly, if you think you'd like the job, you should probably just go for it and not worry about your chances at a Big Firm. I'm at a mid-size boutique firm, and most of my friends from law school aren't at Skadden or whatever. Most people I know seem pretty happy, and most are making "enough" money if not actually "lots." Of the dozen or so people I personally know that went to the huge firms, two have already left for other firms, and another two stopped practicing law. I graduated May '12 though, so there's still time. If you can make enough to get by and you like the job, I'd call that a win (considering the sunk cost of law school, etc etc). mastershakeman posted:My Chicago firm is hiring. Would you like to take people's homes and give them to banks with me? You'll also get to drive hundreds of miles a week in heavy traffic!! See? Also, quit worrying, you almost definitely passed the bar. 
the milk machine fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 00:15
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