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Are there any openers that go right for faith? I've seen a situational one where you go tradition 2 pts to get aristocracy and then go faith but that seems extremely slow to finish out either tree if you don't get some other source of culture going.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:13
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| # ? May 30, 2024 10:37 |
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I've considered experimenting with Byzantium and a piety opener, but haven't done it yet. Partly it's just that Tradition and Liberty are such great starters they're hard to compete with.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:20
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Religion in 4 was fine but I like the system in 5 a lot more tbh. Pantheons are awesome and a lot of the time I'll found a religion just to protect my pantheon. My favorite build atm is a growth pantheon, fertility rights or sun god, then religious community and swords into plowshares. I don't even want to spread it to other civs, which is fine since trying to do so is basically a lost cause on immortal anyway. The belief system is good, I like it in theory. In practice it's pretty horribly balanced and there are still way too many beliefs that are utterly worthless, and too many that are no-brainers. The religious spread mechanics however are just inexcusably bad. The combination is a system that I just can't really enjoy.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:39
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Bremen posted:I've considered experimenting with Byzantium and a piety opener, but haven't done it yet. Partly it's just that Tradition and Liberty are such great starters they're hard to compete with. The trick to a Piety opener is making sure that your religion is itself capable of covering any gaps that might be covered by not getting Tradition or Liberty. Or starting off with a hybrid: open up Tradition to get the +3 culture, get as much Piety as you can as early as you can, switch back to filling out Tradition.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:06
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The problem with Piety is that the only real big reward for going into the tree is the Reformation belief, but to get there you have to take Mandate of Heaven, which does nothing in the early game as you're saving faith to make a great prophet or two, and Religious Tolerance, which does nothing all game long. Meanwhile, the Tradition guy is getting massive extra growth in his capital and a bunch of free happiness, culture, and gold, and the Liberty guy is getting free units, a Golden Age, a settler cost reduction, and a free Great Person (meaning probably an Academy or an instant Petra/Chichen Itza/what have you). Piety just doesn't do enough to be worth rushing over Tradition and Liberty, and if you don't rush it then the Reformation belief you want will probably be gone before you can get to it.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:29
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Are there any openers that go right for faith? I've seen a situational one where you go tradition 2 pts to get aristocracy and then go faith but that seems extremely slow to finish out either tree if you don't get some other source of culture going. Jungle starts with culture from Jungles can go right into Piety pretty easily, but honestly, going more than 2 deep into Piety before you hit modern seems like a waste. Tradition is just far, far more powerful in terms not only early game prowess, but more importantly, have a much larger snowball effect on the later game. The extra growth from tradition just cannot be matched by any other tree. Population is king in Civ5, to an absurd degree, and the difference between a capital with tradition and one without it 150 turns into the game can be pretty huge.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:30
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The belief system is good, I like it in theory. In practice it's pretty horribly balanced and there are still way too many beliefs that are utterly worthless, and too many that are no-brainers. The religious spread mechanics however are just inexcusably bad. The combination is a system that I just can't really enjoy. Agreed that it's poorly balanced. Anything food related is going to be better because population is everything. I actually don't have a problem with pressure/missionaries etc, but there's always AI that go so crazy with it that you can't compete on higher difficulties. But really, half the reason I've ever played any Civilization is to build cool empires and creating your own customized religion adds a fun level to that.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:42
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The advice in the OP seems to cover the Windows versions of Civ V. What's the best way to buy this (and all the good expansions) if I'm playing on a Mac? App store, something else?
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Oct 29, 2013 00:47
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Dodge Charms posted:The advice in the OP seems to cover the Windows versions of Civ V. It's steamworks so if you buy it elsewhere they're just going to give you a code you plug into steam. Wait for the Halloween sale to start later this week and grab it then.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:50
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uPen posted:It's steamworks so if you buy it elsewhere they're just going to give you a code you plug into steam. Wait for the Halloween sale to start later this week and grab it then. Awesome, thank you.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:53
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Civ V is Steamplay, which means you get the PC and Mac versions together, everywhere you buy it. All of the purchasing advice applies to both versions of the game.
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Oct 29, 2013 01:21
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IAmUnaware posted:The problem with Piety is that the only real big reward for going into the tree is the Reformation belief, but to get there you have to take Mandate of Heaven, which does nothing in the early game as you're saving faith to make a great prophet or two, and Religious Tolerance, which does nothing all game long. Meanwhile, the Tradition guy is getting massive extra growth in his capital and a bunch of free happiness, culture, and gold, and the Liberty guy is getting free units, a Golden Age, a settler cost reduction, and a free Great Person (meaning probably an Academy or an instant Petra/Chichen Itza/what have you). Piety just doesn't do enough to be worth rushing over Tradition and Liberty, and if you don't rush it then the Reformation belief you want will probably be gone before you can get to it. Well spoken, sir. The fast border expansion is the reason it's pretty much wrong to open anything but Tradition first. And then once you've opened it you've got juicy +growth policies calling your name. These days I pretty much never touch Honor or Piety anymore; it's usually Tradition, Patronage (occasionally Aesthetics), and by the time those are finished it's Rationalism time and then ideologies. Putting a couple points into Liberty to get the free Settler and/or Worker comes and goes, but I haven't actually finished Liberty in forever.
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Oct 29, 2013 03:48
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Eric the Mauve posted:The fast border expansion is the reason it's pretty much wrong to open anything but Tradition first. And then once you've opened it you've got juicy +growth policies calling your name. These days I pretty much never touch Honor or Piety anymore; it's usually Tradition, Patronage (occasionally Aesthetics), and by the time those are finished it's Rationalism time and then ideologies. Putting a couple points into Liberty to get the free Settler and/or Worker comes and goes, but I haven't actually finished Liberty in forever. I find opening Honor isn't a bad move after you've got at least some of Tradition down - it's saved me losing a few settlers/caravans by knowing where those drat barbarians have popped up this time. No deeper, though.
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Oct 29, 2013 04:20
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Tempest_56 posted:I find opening Honor isn't a bad move after you've got at least some of Tradition down - it's saved me losing a few settlers/caravans by knowing where those drat barbarians have popped up this time. No deeper, though. Statue of Zeus is pretty much a must-have if you're going for domination. That 15% bonus against cities is pretty powerful.
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Oct 29, 2013 06:14
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canyoneer posted:Statue of Zeus is pretty much a must-have if you're going for domination. That 15% bonus against cities is pretty powerful. I'd rather have Terracotta. Either you have the power to take a city or you don't.
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Oct 29, 2013 11:35
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Liberty is still a great opener simply because the great person you pop at the end can get you a GE just in time for Petra. If you don't have a good Petra city though, Tradition is probably better.
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Oct 29, 2013 14:44
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canyoneer posted:Statue of Zeus is pretty much a must-have if you're going for domination. That 15% bonus against cities is pretty powerful. Too bad it doesn't give any bonus against enemies attacking your city, so why spend your own hammers on it? 
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Oct 29, 2013 14:51
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I pretty much always go liberty (unless I'm playing Venice) because the extra worker and settler along with the +1 culture, production and happiness for every city works well with my wide playstyle. I don't care that tradition tall (with a sideorder of rationalism) is better, I have more fun this way.  Going piety as Byzantine is fun if you can grab 3 buildings, the biggest worry is that the AI will ALWAYS beat you to a reformation belief and might randomly select the one you're aiming for.
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Oct 29, 2013 14:55
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First time playing as Venice, and jeez they're hilarious. One 17 pop capital and an outlying city-state I bought, with no one declaring war presumably because I'm feeding the rest of the world money while I drag money in.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:06
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DeathChicken posted:First time playing as Venice, and jeez they're hilarious. One 17 pop capital and an outlying city-state I bought, with no one declaring war presumably because I'm feeding the rest of the world money while I drag money in.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:19
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Depending on the early ruins I find (ie. Culture) I have been going Tradition opener and then fill out Liberty. If you can settle enough Luxury resources and manage happiness, I've found it to be pretty effective.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:43
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I'm literally the only person who takes commerce over patronage aren't I?
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Oct 29, 2013 16:19
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Fojar38 posted:I'm literally the only person who takes commerce over patronage aren't I? Probably, what's your reasoning?
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Oct 29, 2013 16:21
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Baron Porkface posted:I'd rather have Terracotta. Either you have the power to take a city or you don't. With Russia and Catherine and a decent thematic start, Terracotta is quite pathetic. The units it creates spawn with no experience. With a tradition/honor opener you'll have an easy couple of instant levels of experience, which makes quite the difference in taking a city state (which I went after because of a natural wonder and multiple horse sites), especially after stacking up stable/forge bonuses. If I'm going to pay upkeep for a 3-6 units, I'd rather have something able to resist ranged bombardment or heal nearby units. Of course, not everyone leans towards a military production powerhouse so naturally. On King, I've been experimenting with going Honor first. I can't quite break away from Tradition either, though I really do want to set up a game that makes good use of Liberty.
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Oct 29, 2013 16:32
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The production, free settler, and free worker from Liberty are so goddamn good.
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Oct 29, 2013 16:46
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I find Liberty to be too slow of a start and not nearly as good as Tradition, but I'm not very good. The free settler comes far later than I'd normally build my first settler (city size 3 or 4), and I don't want to waste production by doing it before I have the 50% boost, and in BnW you can't sell off luxuries to buy early settlers anymore. Can you go into a bit more detail on a good Liberty start?
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Oct 29, 2013 16:56
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Fojar38 posted:I'm literally the only person who takes commerce over patronage aren't I? I do it too whenever I feel like invading all the city states in the game, so patronage is pointless. If I intend to make city state allies, patronage gives me more gold than commerce because I spend less money keeping my allies happy.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:02
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Gyshall posted:The production, free settler, and free worker from Liberty are so goddamn good. It's not even just a free settler, it's the fact that in the time you would have spent setting up your second city with Tradition you get to four cities with Liberty (free settler, plus two settlers in the time it would normally take to build one). If you have enough reasonable city locations nearby, that can be a great kickstart to a very large empire.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:25
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Fojar38 posted:I'm literally the only person who takes commerce over patronage aren't I? Absolutely not, Patronage got hammered last patch.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:34
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In an attempt to be more warmonger-y, I've been practicing extorting from city-states. Certainly you can't do it all the time, but it is such a satisfying alternative to courting 'hostile' city-states. In the case of Catherine, I had little/no use and few quests to appease the pair of relatively useless religious city-states, so I'm happily taking extorting one or two, and trading with just a couple with secure trade routes. As a side benefit, the one I took over is located right between two city-states, and halfway between my capital and Boudicca of the "Celts". It pays for my military upkeep and an occasional purchase or two. Once I get this annexation complete and my happiness back up, I might strike for a capital.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:44
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I take Exploration fairly often, especially since I play a lot of England games and naval maps. I usually build naval buildings in my cities anyways, and getting the opener at least is worth it. Navigation School is pretty awful though.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:51
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Speedball posted:The trick to a Piety opener is making sure that your religion is itself capable of covering any gaps that might be covered by not getting Tradition or Liberty. Or starting off with a hybrid: open up Tradition to get the +3 culture, get as much Piety as you can as early as you can, switch back to filling out Tradition. Opening Piety is extremely strong if you take it to its natural extremes. First, you need to go wide. religious buildings, shrines and temples are only good on a per-city basis. The good news is, mosques and pagodas means you have the happiness to support that. If you're playing byzantium make sure your opening beliefs are both of those buildings, AI will snap them up before you can enhance. Secondly, you need to get as many holy sites as possible. Each prophet you earn beyond the 2nd you pop down for a +3 gold, +3 culture and +6 faith tile. This has the side effect of making your capital a trade powerhouse thanks to that sweet gold multiplier on trade routes. After you complete piety, the reformation belief you earn can be tailored to whichever victory condition you're going for. 1. +2 tourism for faith buildings is insanely good if you get 2-3. 2. Jesuit education allows you to play wide science, pop science buildings in as many cities as you can and run scientists. 3. + points for gold gifts to city states is a clear push towards a diplomatic win, making your religion the world religion is crucial here. 4. Buying units with faith
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Oct 29, 2013 18:07
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How do you guys go about building settlers? The whole not growing thing kills me, I usually only build one, then get the one from social policies, then thats it. Where is a good spot to squeeze them out?
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Oct 29, 2013 18:12
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I usually try and get one out while I'm researching to get the National College, and try to get the national college down before my settler gets to his location. Usually this means my settler is sitting idle for 3-4 turns as NC finishes.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:15
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The belief system is good, I like it in theory. In practice it's pretty horribly balanced and there are still way too many beliefs that are utterly worthless, and too many that are no-brainers. The religious spread mechanics however are just inexcusably bad. The combination is a system that I just can't really enjoy. If it was up to me, I'd swap out the missionary purchasing with faith and set up something similar to spying. Putting people in foreign cities increases religous pressure, and putting them in your own cities reduces the followers of foreign religions.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:16
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Can anyone please help me me understand why the hell building the Eiffel Tower increased my UNhappiness by 5? I'm doing a bit of warmongering, and was counting on the happiness boost to get me up from just 3 so I could go take another city, but now I have to keep waiting. I hate it when the game screws me over like that.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:21
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Supersheep posted:Can anyone please help me me understand why the hell building the Eiffel Tower increased my UNhappiness by 5? It was probably something else causing it. Did somebody influential take another tenet?
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Oct 29, 2013 18:24
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SlightlyMadman posted:Probably, what's your reasoning? Protectionism makes it so that I basically never have to worry about happiness ever again and the domestic economy boost means I can still do things like bribe city states and buy units if all my trading routes are wrecked.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:25
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It was probably something else causing it. Did somebody influential take another tenet? No one else has picked an ideology yet, so it's not that. I'm razing one of Venice's cities, but that should mean happiness goes up as population goes down. You're probably right, though, and it's something I didn't notice.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:34
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| # ? May 30, 2024 10:37 |
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Speaking of going wide, try Piety with Songhai and Askia. You won't be first to the piety race by a longshot. However, there are a lot of half-decent second choices if you miss out on the good ones but make it in before anything gets enhanced. These are my 'last to the race' choices. Ancestor worship: if I don't have any faith generation advantages, +1 culture a shrine lets me shuffle back the monument in my build order. Choral Music: Mud Pyramid Mosques now give +4 culture and +2 faith for zero maintenance. (+3 faith, really) Religious Center: And two happiness on top of that. If I get lucky with early ancient ruin faith or faith producing national wonders or particular terrain/resources I'll pick something better, of course, but as a backup plan this is pretty solid: Shrine: Half the cost of a monument, +1 Culture, +2 Faith, replaces unlocking the Liberty tree, 1 gold maintenance, 20 hammers. Mud Pyramid Mosque: +4 culture, +3 Faith, +25% gold, 0 maintenance, 2 happiness, 50 hammers. Key policies: Organized Religion, Theocracy. I do actually like Religious Tolerance since I like to let the AI convert my cities long enough for me to buy a Pagoda or Mosque occasionally, so I don't go for the increased religious spread options. After this, I branch into Honor or whatever rings my bell. I'm considering initiation rites, between my pillaging bonus and reduced religious building costs, but I'm not crazy about it. I'd rather have Tithe, of course. It's not the gamechanger religion you can build with certain civs, but it is quite solid for something that is often still around. You don't have to stress yourself to get it (AI picks result in pleasant surprises as something remains free rather than disappointment as they take a linchpin pantheon/belief), and the cost of going into the piety social tree is greatly mitigated. Since BNW messed with culture production and policy costs, a buffed Mud Pyramid Mosque does wonders for keeping those social policies coming and your borders expanding. It's kind of like Liberty with more of a long-term benefit. Unfortunately, going for Philosophy greatly delays your warmongering (especially without the crazy pop of tradition), so I haven't quite reconciled the two halves of my Songhai playstyle yet. I'll need a bit more practice and refinement, and a lot more knowledge beakers. I'm thinking maybe Military Caste and Oligarchy might be something to pick up before Mandate of Heaven or Theocracy become relevant, and later I'd rather have commerce or exploration than aesthetics. And patronage? Allies make warmongering so much less fun. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 19:14
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