|
Sheeeeeeeeit, the 228i looks really appealing to me. I mean, so does the M235i, but the 228i looks like a hell of a bargain for 10k less starting. Will be interesting to see what real world prices look like when the build configurator goes online. A 228i with the M-sport package for ~35k would be mighty tempting.
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 00:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:08 |
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/24/2014-bmw-2-series-official/ If nothing else, I do think it's probably the best looking BMW currently being sold. I wanted to scoff at the price since 1 series pricing has been silly before, but it's not that bad and they actually got the weight down to something reasonable now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
Oh, also just saw this: New official rendering of 2015 Hyundai Genesis.  
OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Oct 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:If nothing else, I do think it's probably the best looking BMW currently being sold. I wanted to scoff at the price since 1 series pricing has been silly before, but it's not that bad and they actually got the weight down to something reasonable now. I dunno, I like the z4, and I just saw a new 6 series convertible and holy poo poo did they ever manage to polish that turd. I mean, maybe it's still bad, but the fact that it actually looks presentable compared to what came before made it seem downright good looking.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 00:37
|
|
|
DropShadow posted:If you want an interesting story about car development, read Car by Mary Walton about the development of the '96 "ovals everywhere" Taurus. I read it after the 2000 redesign (to get rid of the ovals), so it was pretty mindblowing to read about how good they thought its styling looked. Apparently they called it "the catfish" and they still built it. Just a note that this is more of a business oriented book that deals with cars rather than a "car book." That said I read it a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it still.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 01:13
|
|
|
So are you guys already clamouring to buy the current 1 series? Because the current 128i has about the same amount of HP from its NA I6 and costs about the same MSRP (much less after incentives I imagine). I don't know what I was expecting but it doesn't seem like a particularly big development.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 01:52
|
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:So are you guys already clamouring to buy the current 1 series? Because the current 128i has about the same amount of HP from its NA I6 and costs about the same MSRP (much less after incentives I imagine). I don't know what I was expecting but it doesn't seem like a particularly big development. The 2 series looks much better than the 1 series IMO, almost more E46-like and not as droopy as the 1er. Plus the turbo-4 is likely going to have a lot of easily obtained additional power through a chip as well as better all-around fuel efficiency.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 01:58
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:Oh, also just saw this: Looking good. The first-gen is a really great looking car IMO. I really can't say anything bad about anything in Hyundai's current line-up. I test drove a 2013 Elantra a couple months ago as we're looking to replace my wife's Focus soon. It was a really great car.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 02:26
|
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/24/2014-bmw-2-series-official/ Where are you getting 2900lb? The current 128i is like 3200lbs and the 135i is 3400. The new 2-series is bigger, but they claim a bunch of lightweight materials. I just don't see where they get 300 lbs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 02:56
|
|
|
Mighty Horse posted:Yeah, how could a Chrysler be any good? Chrysler has made plenty of great cars. Just not that one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:07
|
|
|
Hog Obituary posted:Where are you getting 2900lb? The current 128i is like 3200lbs and the 135i is 3400. The new 2-series is bigger, but they claim a bunch of lightweight materials. I just don't see where they get 300 lbs. Huh yeah I looked at that link and I don't see any source for the 2900 lb claim. The only thing I could find was a spec sheet for the M235 that looks like it weighs as much or more as the last model:  And also the 220i is 3000 lbs, but I believe that's Euro only and not the turbo version:  So yeah 2900 lbs for the turbo version seems pretty heavily unlikely.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:31
|
|
|
hosed up the kg conversion  Well, like 3100lb curb weight is still pretty good, brz is ~2800lbs but that 2.0 liter chipped is going to have a shitload more torque than the brz.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:36
|
|
|
Previa_fun posted:Just a note that this is more of a business oriented book that deals with cars rather than a "car book." That said I read it a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it still. That's true. I picked it up thinking it was a "real" car book but ended up reading it all the way through anyway because it was interesting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 04:13
|
|
|
sanchez posted:The Prelude Si was not a cheap car, at around 24k in the mid 90's, or about what a 370z goes for today? I wonder why they put the Probe but not the MX-6. Maybe it was priced differently.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
That new 228i sounds pretty incredible. Unfortunately, I know that I'd be checking at least $5000 in options to get one the way that I want it. At that point, I might as well opt for the M235i.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 20:25
|
|
|
Vigo327 posted:Uhh, it's kind of a dangerous assumption to assume that the only cars anyone drives or has driven are the ones you've specifically heard them talk about. My dd has ~67 hp but it's just one of 13 cars i own and about 50 ive owned in my life so i consider myself qualified to comment on lots of things that aren't 67hp cars. I have no idea what Coredump has driven (and i dont ask because if anyone is like me that is a long god drat list and nobody cares) so i dont think we should read too much into the '1998 240sx' statement. Just my opinion. Uh, I asked him if he drove one of the cars he was talking about, and he replied that he drove a different car. It was pretty safe to assume he would have said yes if the answer was yes. Coredump posted:You asked if I drove one of the cars I mentioned. One of the cars I mentioned was in fact, a 240sx. The rest is you moving goalpost. BOOM. Edit: Oh poo poo, I just went back and reread my post and I DIDN'T mention the 240, so I take my boom back. Hehe, right on. These days the Miata makes more power, and it's still lighter. And if you want 50 more horses than your 240, the FRS has you covered. People have given you reasons for why those cars didn't pack V6s.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2013 20:52
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:Hehe, right on. These days the Miata makes more power, and it's still lighter. And if you want 50 more horses than your 240, the FRS has you covered. People have given you reasons for why those cars didn't pack V6s. Or he can spend a few thousand and get the engine that was meant to be in the s13/s14 and have more power and torque then the FRS with 'skys the limit' upgradeability. I was really looking forward to the FRS/BRZ but when I found out it was NA only and like 50 to 75 horsepower less then I was looking for I lost all interest. Next step up is the 370Z and I'm not a big fan of those, and the interior is super cramped.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2013 21:22
|
|
|
There's a solution to every problem. That solution is usually "stick an LS into it"
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
D C posted:Or he can spend a few thousand and get the engine that was meant to be in the s13/s14 and have more power and torque then the FRS with 'skys the limit' upgradeability. As an owner of a Japanese market S13 180sx, this is exactly my position. The SR20DET is a haven for easy power. I have a few fairly straight forward, simple modifications and it is a very fun car to drive. I drove my car to a dealership, drove the 86, got back in my car and was just blown away at how much less fun the acceleration was in the 86. it just kind of, you hit a wall and you're accelerating, but theres no personality to it. my car probably makes LESS power, given its an older engine and has a few thousand kms on it. but it feels a shitload more fun to drive, and thats why I didnt put down a deposit - What i have now is more fun, more practical (hatchback) and I already own it out right with nothing but running costs and the occasional mod to satisfy the urge to tweak. The modifications I have on my car, like exhaust and intake, applied to the BRZ/FR-S/86, wouldnt net the same returns in power and cost more too. its just not really worth buying one to modify as theres no real gains to get in the car for the money you put in. Having said all that I dont think the Nissan will be any better. Nissan today is very different to Nissan 10-15 years ago. But we can hope.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2013 04:04
|
|
|
D C posted:Or he can spend a few thousand and get the engine that was meant to be in the s13/s14 and have more power and torque then the FRS with 'skys the limit' upgradeability. Yeah, he could, but that's not really relevant to the conversation. And I really don't get your mindset. If I thought that way, I would have never owned a NC Miata, which was one of the most entertaining cars I've ever driven and the only car I have ever owned that causes me to wake up in the middle of the night a little sad because I was just dreaming about driving it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2013 01:55
|
|
|
Linedance posted:There's a solution to every problem. drat that fits nicely too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2013 04:03
|
|
|
More on the Silvia/S16 at Tokyo http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/28/nissan-rear-wheel-drive-sports-car-brz-frs-competitor/ quote:Andy Palmer, Nissan's executive vice president, does not like the Scion FR-S or Subaru BRZ. To us, that's like saying you enjoy barbecuing puppies, but we'll let him slide, because his statements about the Toyobaru twins are much, much more than just idle trash talk. Bolding mine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 07:31
|
|
|
Can this resurgence of small RWD sportscars force Mazda to get their asses moving on a new RX car? One can only hope.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 09:37
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Can this resurgence of small RWD sportscars force Mazda to get their asses moving on a new RX car? One can only hope. Can one of these small rwd sportscars ever have more than 200 whp? One can only hope. S2000 don't count cuz lol we forgot the torque. And the rx8 got the gas mileage of a v8 mustang for the power of a v6 before anyone brings those two up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 11:39
|
|
|
Coredump posted:Can one of these small rwd sportscars ever have more than 200 whp? One can only hope. Well the VQ37 has like 330 so even if Nissan de-tunes it A LOT it should be well over 200.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 13:33
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Can this resurgence of small RWD sportscars force Mazda to get their asses moving on a new RX car? One can only hope. Mazda's been having a lot of financial troubles lately (until this year they were "Japan's only unprofitable automaker"), so probably not. They already have the Miata for "small RWD sportscars," and the RX series hasn't ever really been a great seller in modern times. All they'd need to do is make a coupe version of the Miata if they wanted to compete directly in the segment anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:17
|
|
|
Coredump posted:Can one of these small rwd sportscars ever have more than 200 whp? One can only hope. You're looking for the 370Z, which is almost identical in dimensions to the BRZ. It's also much fatter and more expensive because, well, that's how it works.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:20
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:You're looking for the 370Z, which is almost identical in dimensions to the BRZ. It's also much fatter and more expensive because, well, that's how it works. But it doesn't have to work like that. That's what I've been trying to say. Why does the car have to get fatter just because? sean10mm posted:Well the VQ37 has like 330 so even if Nissan de-tunes it A LOT it should be well over 200. Coredump fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Oct 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:29
|
|
|
Coredump posted:Can one of these small rwd sportscars ever have more than 200 whp? One can only hope. If you don't know how to have fun in an S2000 that's your problem, not the S2000's. <  >
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:34
|
|
|
Coredump posted:But it doesn't have to work like that. That's what I've been trying to say. Why does the car have to get fatter just because? When you can get 240+hp from a 1.6-1.8 with DI, VVT and turbocharging (Alfa Romeo 4C and Giulietta QV, Peugeot RCZR and 308R etc.), there's no reason to go as big as 2.5 unless you're shooting for 300+hp.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:42
|
|
|
Coredump posted:But it doesn't have to work like that. That's what I've been trying to say. Why does the car have to get fatter just because? What are you basing your statement that "it doesn't have to work like that" on? It's because DOHC V6s are heavy engines and also because when you're on a budget, you're limited in how much weight savings you can do, especially when you started off with a general-purpose platform that underpins mostly larger cars. Spending more on the engine means less for aluminum and re-engineering at the same price point. Especially since increasing the power means you have to spend more money and weight on every other part of the car to support that power. How many modern cars are there that have over 200 hp and also weigh less than 3000 lbs? Already it's a drat short list. Now how many of those left are even remotely affordable? The closest thing currently sold is probably the Porsche Cayman. Going back into recent history, there were the turbo versions of GM's Kappa platform cars, which were around 3000 lbs, made 260 hp, and were sold on razor-thin margins (and possibly an overall loss, which GM was willing to eat to try and revitalize its ailing Pontiac and Saturn brands). But even then, they cost around $30k and had issues of their own. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 14:55
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:When you can get 240+hp from a 1.6-1.8 with DI, VVT and turbocharging (Alfa Romeo 4C and Giulietta QV, Peugeot RCZR and 308R etc.), there's no reason to go as big as 2.5 unless you're shooting for 300+hp. What's more, there's a direct incentive not to do so with current and future emissions laws in the EU.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 15:41
|
|
|
I notice a lot of Lexus wagon models something or other driving around recently. Anybody tried one out or have any idea why they are suddenly so popular?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 16:52
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:When you can get 240+hp from a 1.6-1.8 with DI, VVT and turbocharging (Alfa Romeo 4C and Giulietta QV, Peugeot RCZR and 308R etc.), there's no reason to go as big as 2.5 unless you're shooting for 300+hp. I just said 2.5 liters because in my head a manufacturer could still have a relatively understressed engine with that much displacement. I know MotoIQ has been having a hell of a time getting any power gains from the FRS because its 12.5 compression and 91 octane gas in California. They finally got some meaningful gains by going forced induction.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
Yes, the Toybaru being a 50-year-old's midlife crisis car totally explains why probably 80% of the ones I see on the roads are being driven by people in their 20s or 30s  In the two, three or four years it takes Nissan to get their car to market, let's see what Toyota and Subaru do, because you can guarantee the bar will no longer be at 200hp.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
iv46vi posted:I notice a lot of Lexus wagon models something or other driving around recently. Anybody tried one out or have any idea why they are suddenly so popular? Hybrids, man. I think the only wagons with a Lexus badge are hybrids right now. So think "People who want a Prius but want to be just a little more smug"
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 16:58
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:In the two, three or four years it takes Nissan to get their car to market, let's see what Toyota and Subaru do, because you can guarantee the bar will no longer be at 200hp. This is how I feel about it. I understand Toyota/Subura risked A LOT to bring the BRZ/FRS to market. I also feel like they settled on the power level they did because they wanted to benchmark the elephant in the room, the Miata. And that may be one of the only times a Miata is ever compared to an elephant.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 17:06
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:Yes, the Toybaru being a 50-year-old's midlife crisis car totally explains why probably 80% of the ones I see on the roads are being driven by people in their 20s or 30s Tetsuya Tada posted:"I think 300bhp with a turbo and 200g/km of CO2 would be tasteless in this day and age. We're looking for a surprise. Something unique. For example, a hybrid motor." Of course, he then goes on to talk about implementing something similar to the KERS setup (regenerative braking energy stored in a 'booster pack' of sorts for temporary on-demand HP bumps); but still, don't get your hopes up for much more than 200 h.p. from the Toyobaru any time soon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 17:08
|
|
|
Coredump posted:I just said 2.5 liters because in my head a manufacturer could still have a relatively understressed engine with that much displacement. I know MotoIQ has been having a hell of a time getting any power gains from the FRS because its 12.5 compression and 91 octane gas in California. They finally got some meaningful gains by going forced induction. But they don't want unstressed engines they want cars they can sell in China and the EU. FWIW I wrote about some interesting current and future approaches car makers are using for Ars Technica a while back: http://arstechnica.com/feature-series/future-of-fuel/ Devyl posted:Of course, he then goes on to talk about implementing something similar to the KERS setup (regenerative braking energy stored in a 'booster pack' of sorts for temporary on-demand HP bumps); but still, don't get your hopes up for much more than 200 h.p. from the Toyobaru any time soon. When I was chatting with the head of Toyota Motorsport a couple of months ago at COTA he told me he thought we might see an affordable supercapacitor hybrid sportscar within the next five years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 17:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:08 |
|
|
PCOS Bill posted:Hybrids, man. I think the only wagons with a Lexus badge are hybrids right now. So think "People who want a Prius but want to be just a little more smug" I don't see it as smug at all. With most luxury cars, especially in North America, you only have options for big engines. Not everyone wants that, some people just want a nice place to sit in traffic, without the associated sub 20mpg urban fuel economy. For me the Lexus 200h (or whatever it's called) makes more sense than the Prius. If you're willing to spend a little more on a car to get a bit more comfort and luxury, hybrids are an ideal platform because they're already a little more expensive. Instead of having to skimp in other areas to get the expensive hybrid powertrain into an affordable platform, you can put it in a full fat model that people are already willing to pay for and still make some money off it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 17:54
|
|