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jeffersonlives posted:It's a tough call. With Lesnar you have a pretty known drawing commodity that they should have been able to use to do some really cool stuff with stories, in the ring, and at the box office, and instead they cooled him by beating him in what was far too much of a throwaway first match and then that Triple H feud and doing the Mania job for Hunter just loving murder-death-killed his ability to be anything special outside of maybe one match with Taker. I honestly had that feeling when Orton punted Vince, but I also feel like the next Steve Austin is going to catch on because of some dumb thing I see every few years. Orton felt red hot going into the 2009 Rumble and then Shane hurt the angle and Triple H beat him at Wrestlemania. I am starting to think Triple H might cause some problems here and there.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:36
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MassRafTer posted:I honestly had that feeling when Orton punted Vince, but I also feel like the next Steve Austin is going to catch on because of some dumb thing I see every few years. Orton felt red hot going into the 2009 Rumble and then Shane hurt the angle and Triple H beat him at Wrestlemania. Dave kind of hit on this in today's WOR so I'm going to sound like I'm parroting, but Orton's only an average or slightly above average talker even by current standards (and current standards aren't that high) so I'm not so sure I ever really buy that he could have been that kind of guy. Do agree that that is one of several times they hosed up Orton's stuff, absolutely.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:40
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jeffersonlives posted:Dave kind of hit on this in today's WOR so I'm going to sound like I'm parroting, but Orton's only an average or slightly above average talker even by current standards (and current standards aren't that high) so I'm not so sure I ever really buy that he could have been that kind of guy. Do agree that that is one of several times they hosed up Orton's stuff, absolutely. To me it was kind of an aura thing, but it's not like WWE wasn't going to book him to cut long promos even if they double turned at WM and handled the rest well.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:44
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MassRafTer posted:To me it was kind of an aura thing, but it's not like WWE wasn't going to book him to cut long promos even if they double turned at WM and handled the rest well. The recent "what if"/"aura" guy for me was Jeff Hardy, considering how big he did become with the business indicators even given how tepidly he was pushed at the top. If he swantons Orton for the title at that Rumble and gets the star protection from Wellness and they rip off like six months of peak Cena booking for him, does he actually become a crazy huge deal instead of just a huge deal? In Hardy's case there are of course very good reasons not to shove all the eggs in his basket, but they still cut him off way too quickly when they struck the lightning. And that one was to benefit Triple H's program too.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:49
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I think Orton's tone when speaking and his demeanor in general kind of limit his face potential. He's just a total natural heel to me.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:00
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Orton's face run reminded me of the T-800 trying to learn to smile in Terminator 2. It just doesn't work for him. Like when he did those weird spontaneous jumping splits. See guys, I can be fun!
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Oct 29, 2013 21:03
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Tato posted:Orton's face run reminded me of the T-800 trying to learn to smile in Terminator 2. It just doesn't work for him. Like when he did those weird spontaneous jumping splits. See guys, I can be fun! And got his leg caught in the announce table.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:11
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Tato posted:Orton's face run reminded me of the T-800 trying to learn to smile in Terminator 2. It just doesn't work for him. Like when he did those weird spontaneous jumping splits. See guys, I can be fun! In very late 2008 and January 2009 Orton was still a heel and still acting like a heel, but they loving shot him to the moon after he was off TV for awhile with one of the strongest pushes they've given anyone, forming the Legacy, having him beat and lay out everyone (he won the Rumble that year in perhaps the strongest Rumble winner performance they've ever given someone, up there with Flair and Benoit, since so often the guy the match is built around isn't the winner), and letting him do things like "punting Vince" and "outing Hunter and Stephanie's real marriage" and "laying out Stephanie" that was just stuff they didn't do. And because of all of this, he became by far the most over guy on the roster and fans were basically just begging for an Austin like semi-face turn where Orton still acted like a dominant badass and him to be the new top guy over Cena (this was one of the periods where Cena felt beyond stale). Of course it turned out the reason they were shooting him to the moon wasn't to create a new top guy, it was to build a strong heel for Triple H to beat at WrestleMania for what he hoped was his big WrestleMania Moment. Having realized they accidentally created a thing by putting him over too strong, their response was to book Orton in an even stevenish feud with Shane McMahon to cool him, and in the storyline turn him into a cartoon villain. Then they put Hunter over strong at Mania and eventually this all ended up with that awful "Passion of the Cena" feud. When they finally did just let the crowd turn Orton face in 2010, it was still kind of a big deal but he didn't have that kind of steam anymore, and what steam he had got petered out quickly. oldfan fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 21:14
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By the way this entire discussion is why I am really, really, really skeptical that things will be "better" when the Levesques take over, because these are not nearly a comprehensive list or discussion of the times Hunter hosed with someone else's heat to get himself over, often at great detriment to the product both creatively and for business, and nobody's ever really answered why that would change once he has unfettered ability to do that instead of the ability only to the extent that he can convince Vince.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:24
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jeffersonlives posted:By the way this entire discussion is why I am really, really, really skeptical that things will be "better" when the Levesques take over, because these are not nearly a comprehensive list or discussion of the times Hunter hosed with someone else's heat to get himself over, often at great detriment to the product both creatively and for business, and nobody's ever really answered why that would change once he has unfettered ability to do that instead of the ability only to the extent that he can convince Vince. Austin, Angle, Jericho, Booker, Benoit, Hardy, Orton, Eugene(?), Punk, Bryan, Goldberg, Steiner, RVD, Sheamus... I don't know about Foley, not sure how HHH influenced their matches in 97.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:03
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MassRafTer posted:Austin, Angle, Jericho, Booker, Benoit, Hardy, Orton, Eugene(?), Punk, Bryan, Goldberg, Steiner, RVD, Sheamus... I don't know about Foley, not sure how HHH influenced their matches in 97. Orton and Jericho should really count at least twice each, and you missed Kane, Chris Masters, and obviously Lesnar out of the inarguable ones just off the top of my head.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:15
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MassRafTer posted:Austin, Angle, Jericho, Booker, Benoit, Hardy, Orton, Eugene(?), Punk, Bryan, Goldberg, Steiner, RVD, Sheamus... I don't know about Foley, not sure how HHH influenced their matches in 97. I think Cactus won the feud that year pretty decisively with the Summerslam cage match, and Hunter was paired with Shawn the next night.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:19
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jeffersonlives posted:Orton and Jericho should really count at least twice each, and you missed Kane, Chris Masters, and obviously Lesnar out of the inarguable ones just off the top of my head. Does Kane really count? A top guy does have to win some matches, and Kane was pretty far into his run at that point. It'd be one thing if he unmasked him in the first year or two, but by 2003 it was time for that thing to come off and HHH was top dog on Raw.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:28
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Can we just count all of Raw from 2002 until his feud with Batista in 05? He effectively ran the show with an iron fist for practically three years.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:35
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MassRafTer posted:Does Kane really count? A top guy does have to win some matches, and Kane was pretty far into his run at that point. It'd be one thing if he unmasked him in the first year or two, but by 2003 it was time for that thing to come off and HHH was top dog on Raw. I'm not going back to watch that poo poo again but my memory is that like with the recent one, the tenor of the story and the interviews emasculated Kane pretty badly and then Hunter decisively won the feud so it was like "welp goodbye Kane's credibility for awhile."
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Oct 29, 2013 22:39
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Tato posted:Orton's face run reminded me of the T-800 trying to learn to smile in Terminator 2. It just doesn't work for him. Like when he did those weird spontaneous jumping splits. See guys, I can be fun! Actually, stuff like the splits is what makes him most likeable to me. As I recall, the story was the office was getting on to him to be a better babyface, play to the crowd/hard camera more, fire up. So he follows their advice in the most poo poo-eating, sarcastically OTT way possible. It does more to get his personality over than a dozen show-opening promos.
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Oct 30, 2013 01:40
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MassRafTer posted:Does Kane really count? A top guy does have to win some matches, and Kane was pretty far into his run at that point. It'd be one thing if he unmasked him in the first year or two, but by 2003 it was time for that thing to come off and HHH was top dog on Raw. I forget now: did Katie Vick lead directly into the unmasking, or was that separated? Do we credit HHH with Brock losing real value as a draw almost immediately upon his return? Owen Hart with the nugget feud? Legacy? Taz? Test? What about lesser cases like Londrick and Spirit Squad (the latter of whom I enjoyed in spite of/because of their gimmick)? Was there something with Cade and Murdoch?
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Oct 30, 2013 03:12
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You know you're right, we're talking about two separate Triple H/Kane feuds. I'm talking about the Katie Vick/IC title one, not the unmasking one the next year.
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Oct 30, 2013 03:22
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Listening to Bryan's talk about audio gear makes me realize that we only get the pods but for the grace of god. 
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Oct 30, 2013 12:02
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You all left off the Hurricane, who beat the Rock IIRC cleanly on RAW and then got squashed by HHH the next week.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:24
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Bigass Moth posted:You all left off the Hurricane, who beat the Rock IIRC cleanly on RAW and then got squashed by HHH the next week. haha oh god yes how we forget
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Oct 30, 2013 13:41
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well it was clean in the sense that no actual interference was made, but Austin actually came out and distracted Rock at the entrance ramp which allowed Hurricane to win with a roll-up.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:45
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God drat, after awhile you have to look at the pile of bodies that Triple H has had a hand in burying or squandering their push and admire it. Everyone always talks about Hogan being the master politician and stuff, but he was always very open about it and not subtle at all. Looking at where they've ended up as their careers wind down, it's obvious that Triple H is the loving king and Hulk Hogan is a rank amateur.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:46
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Tato posted:God drat, after awhile you have to look at the pile of bodies that Triple H has had a hand in burying or squandering their push and admire it. Everyone always talks about Hogan being the master politician and stuff, but he was always very open about it and not subtle at all. Looking at where they've ended up as their careers wind down, it's obvious that Triple H is the loving king and Hulk Hogan is a rank amateur. If Stephanie had been born in the late 60s you can bet your rear end the Hulkster would have married her too.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:52
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So I have the two newest Pisscasts on my phone and I'm going to be working all day. And here I thought today was going to suck.  Hell, I might even work over time.
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Oct 30, 2013 13:55
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Cardboard Box posted:well it was clean in the sense that no actual interference was made, but Austin actually came out and distracted Rock at the entrance ramp which allowed Hurricane to win with a roll-up. He still put him over in general and actually ran a small fun program with Hurricane. Which HHH went an undid pretty quickly
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Oct 30, 2013 14:15
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oh yeah, I wasn't arguing that Rock didn't put Hurricane over well enough. he absolutely did.
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Oct 30, 2013 14:17
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Skunkrocker posted:So I have the two newest Pisscasts on my phone and I'm going to be working all day. The Pisscast is a friend of the proletariat. New episode coming whenever Manflurry gets it uploaded. It was a fine show with lots of piss and special guest host A GIRL. If it takes forever for this to make it to your headphones, blame Manflurry. Always blame Manflurry.
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Oct 30, 2013 14:39
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Cardboard Box posted:oh yeah, I wasn't arguing that Rock didn't put Hurricane over well enough. he absolutely did. He put him over even in the little things like looking up when Hurricane flew away at the end of one segment.
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Oct 30, 2013 14:40
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Karmine posted:The Pisscast is a friend of the proletariat. We had some suggestions to tighten up the format and trim up the show, and we took those suggestions to heart because your feedback is important to us. However, we decided to go in a different direction. Keep the questions and comments coming, though. Q&A is my favorite part of the show to do. oatgan fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 14:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTtqJL70meg Everyone please tweet this match to @bryanalvarez or send him an email asking him to re-review it. THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME for Bryan and Vinny to look back at the most historic match in ECW history!
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Oct 30, 2013 15:01
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IIRC, the worst part is, HHH couldn't even be bothered to go over with a Pedigree. He won with a loving sleeper when he beat Hurricane.
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Oct 30, 2013 16:02
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didn't the Rock wanna put Booker over but backed out because he knew HHH would go over him right after it
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Oct 30, 2013 16:08
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Listening to Giant-Talk on the Bryan/Dave show, when Bryan mentions the only person to be both a dwarf and a giant, Dave going "WHAT!?" in the background just made me lose it.
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Oct 30, 2013 16:22
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e: why did I post that here
Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 16:41
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 Wrestlehut Pisscast Episode 5 - Take Me Down to the Destrucity The Pisscast is back again and we brought the power of the lord with us. Open your ears, Pissants, because we've got Raw, Ultimate "The Warrior" Warrior, the laziest rundown of impact ever, and a few of our favorite things. #BringBackKanesMask  http://www.mediafire.com/download/4qb914r846r5v59/005+Wrestlehut+Pisscast.mp3 Strap in because it's over three hours long. Keep sending us questions, friends of the show, and thanks for listening. oatgan fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 01:21
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Three hours of piss?
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Oct 31, 2013 01:33
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oatgan posted:Strap in because it's over three hours long. Keep sending us questions, friends of the show, and thanks for listening. Three ain't enough, man, I need five.
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Oct 31, 2013 01:37
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WON HOF has six inductees this year (good news for the usual suspects) so Dave split the bios over two weeks. The first inductee is Henri Deglane, who Dave says is the second to last guy he plans on putting in as the Veterans Committee equivalent.
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Oct 31, 2013 03:33
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Finally Big Daddy and Sting will be in.
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