|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:You cut back on funding. You were warned, son. This is all I did with SimCity files: Cut transit funding to zero. Also, It's been too long, Trek thread. It's good to be back.
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 18:15 |
|
|
My favorite part of the episode is the fact that The Doctor experiencing the death of a child is never mentioned again, not even once.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 23:41
|
|
|
BrandonGK posted:My favorite part of the episode is the fact that The Doctor experiencing the death of a child is never mentioned again, not even once. Main characters died and they never bothered mentioning it again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Gau posted:There are two reviews. They are both amazing for different reasons. When I posted there was just the one
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
MichiganCubbie posted:This is all I did with SimCity files: Cut transit funding to zero. I did this anyhow. My cities would have made Robert Moses be like dude dial it back on the freeways.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2013 23:50
|
|
|
a travelling HEGEL posted:The labor union episode of B5 displayed a level of understanding of the sort of stuff that would go into running a space station/spaceship in the near future that you usually don't get in Star Trek. In comparison, Star Trek's treatment of similar subjects, as on DS9, looks kind of cartoonish. Both shows are simplified, of course, otherwise they wouldn't be interesting--we're here to see a plot, not an exact replica of what life would actually look like on a spaceship. See, I am not sure that "deeply written" is a very meaningful phrase, and your example of the labor union episode is what I mean. How is "Bar Association" shallow in comparison to "By Any Means Necessary"? I think the DS9 episode is arguably more interesting in the way that it depicts clashes between cultures, Rom's decision to finally distance himself from the Ferengi values that have brought him only suffering (and in so doing, he realizes his true potential and gets Leeta interested in the confident, outspoken Rom she first saw here), and it also doesn't have the interstellar travel loophole that gets G'Kar off the hook at the end.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 00:12
|
|
|
Apollodorus posted:See, I am not sure that "deeply written" is a very meaningful phrase, and your example of the labor union episode is what I mean. How is "Bar Association" shallow in comparison to "By Any Means Necessary"? I think the DS9 episode is arguably more interesting in the way that it depicts clashes between cultures, Rom's decision to finally distance himself from the Ferengi values that have brought him only suffering (and in so doing, he realizes his true potential and gets Leeta interested in the confident, outspoken Rom she first saw here), and it also doesn't have the interstellar travel loophole that gets G'Kar off the hook at the end. I don't know the B5 episode in question, but its also worth noting that the reforms Rom forces actually change Ferengi society totally. Making it more like us. You idiot, Rom.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 01:06
|
|
|
Trickjaw posted:I don't know the B5 episode in question, but its also worth noting that the reforms Rom forces actually change Ferengi society totally. Making it more like us. That said, that does kind of raise the whole question, doesn't it?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 02:00
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Yes, that's exactly what happened. The Doctor's family was flawless, like the family from Leave it to Beaver, so she made it more interesting and realistic. gently caress that, B'Elanna is a murderer. That episode was such bullshit. gently caress B'Elanna forever. I can't overstate how much that episode ruined her character for me. She directly causes the death of his daughter, and then she's just like, "Welp  ." And it's like we're not supposed to care.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:44
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:No, instead they stumbled upon a planet where the US Declaration of Independance arose out of nowhere. In fairness, wasn't the idea of parallel development the new hotness that every sci-fi writer had a hard-on for in the 60s?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:46
|
|
|
Mogomra posted:gently caress that, B'Elanna is a murderer. That episode was such bullshit. gently caress B'Elanna forever. I can't overstate how much that episode ruined her character for me. She directly causes the death of his daughter, and then she's just like, "Welp I think the idea was that we were supposed to side with her, and scoff at how perfect the Doctor's original family was and deem that a bunch of fantasy bullshit and agree with her assessment that if the man wants an actual approximation of a family rather than a bunch of idyllic escapist tripe, everything needs to not be saccharine sweet and loving perfect. And it has a point up until the part where she changes his family to be a giant catastrophe and everyone forces him to sit through its implosion and then nobody ever mentions it again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:48
|
|
|
Mogomra posted:gently caress that, B'Elanna is a murderer. That episode was such bullshit. gently caress B'Elanna forever. I can't overstate how much that episode ruined her character for me. She directly causes the death of his daughter, and then she's just like, "Welp The Doctor was living in a fantasy world where nothing goes wrong. B'elanna has a cynical view of the world, she grew up in a lovely family situation and knows reality isn't nearly so tidy as the fiction he'd woven for himself. Sure, she "killed" his fake daughter, but the girl wasn't a real holo-person and she was doing it to teach the Doctor a lesson about how the world works. In the end, did he not come to care for his daughter and feel real love and anguish?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:50
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:No, instead they stumbled upon a planet where the US Declaration of Independance arose out of nowhere. I assumed it was another rear end in a top hat Star Fleet captain who left it there and forgot, like the gangster planet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:I think the idea was that we were supposed to side with her, and scoff at how perfect the Doctor's original family was and deem that a bunch of fantasy bullshit and agree with her assessment that if the man wants an actual approximation of a family rather than a bunch of idyllic escapist tripe, everything needs to not be saccharine sweet and loving perfect. Haha, yeah, I understand the point. It was just executed so badly. His original family was bogus, but the other family was just so much worse on every level. And it's all her fault.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:55
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The Doctor was living in a fantasy world where nothing goes wrong. B'elanna has a cynical view of the world, she grew up in a lovely family situation and knows reality isn't nearly so tidy as the fiction he'd woven for himself. Sure, she "killed" his fake daughter, but the girl wasn't a real holo-person and she was doing it to teach the Doctor a lesson about how the world works. In the end, did he not come to care for his daughter and feel real love and anguish? What makes her think it's her place to make unsolicited changes to someone else's holodeck programme?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:58
|
|
|
Man, with you guys talking about it that way, it actually sounds like a pretty cool episode. I don't think I've ever seen it. I've gotta go watch it now!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 03:59
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:What makes her think it's her place to make unsolicited changes to someone else's holodeck programme? I don't know if you've watched Voyager before, but B'elanna is the biggest bitch on that ship. She has serious problems playing nice and likes to watch people squirm. I'm surprised she doesn't gently caress with everyone's escapist fantasy programmes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Sure, she "killed" his fake daughter, ... That's another thing I don't get. They spend so much time in VOY humanizing The Doctor and other holograms, but when he has a family of his own they're disposable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I don't know if you've watched Voyager before, but B'elanna is the biggest bitch on that ship. She has serious problems playing nice and likes to watch people squirm. I'm surprised she doesn't gently caress with everyone's escapist fantasy programmes. Sorry Janeway but your Irish fuckbuddy has herpes and the plague. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 30, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:02
|
|
|
Gau posted:3/5 of the Trek series have legitimate Space Nazis. This is a thing. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:15
|
|
|
Mogomra posted:That's another thing I don't get. They spend so much time in VOY humanizing The Doctor and other holograms, but when he has a family of his own they're disposable. That was the most hypocritical thing of all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:22
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I don't know if you've watched Voyager before, but B'elanna is the biggest bitch on that ship. She has serious problems playing nice and likes to watch people squirm. I'm surprised she doesn't gently caress with everyone's escapist fantasy programmes. Somebody higher up in Voyager really hated Mexicans and wanted to have a character where they could express their enmity towards them but they couldn't just outright have a
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:24
|
|
|
Mogomra posted:That's another thing I don't get. They spend so much time in VOY humanizing The Doctor and other holograms, but when he has a family of his own they're disposable. I'm willing to accept it in the case of the doctor's 'family' since they talk up how much power and storage the Doctor takes and how complicated his program is, but he programmed his family himself and they're apparently no more complicated than any other hologram people. The episode is one of those Voyager pretty-good-until-they-blew-it-at-the-last-minute episodes. Having the Doctor decide to try a more realistic program, instead of getting it forced on him, and having him decide to see it through to the end instead of being told that he's a pussy if he doesn't nut up and finish when he doesn't want to, and maybe have some of the other characters share their own personal experiences instead of it always being "life is suffering, no you can't have a personal example that makes me a relatable person, just take my word for it and nut up".
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:25
|
|
|
Trek EU update: Finished a recent Voyager novel, where Q's son from Q2 brings Janeway back to life after she had been dead for several years. He ends up dead at the end of the story himself to repair damage to the fabric of the universe or something. So now in the Trek EU, all of the major characters post-TOS who have died canonically have been resurrected (Data just came back thanks to the not-dead Noonien Soong, Sisko returned from being dead, and now Janeway). The book where Data comes back is actually very good, but the recent Janeway book was mediocre.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:27
|
|
|
The problem is Voyager does a poo poo job defining sentience. The Doctor is a hologram and he's real cause magic or whatever, and therefore deserves the same rights as an any other lifeform. That doesn't apply to any other holodeck characters though (until the writers have a dry spell and they suddenly decide that it does). If B'elanna is a murderer ( ) then Paris should be spending more time in the brig for assault and mutilation for that one time he replaced a character's head with someone else's head in Tuvok's holoprogram. Hell, for that matter Paris should be charged with sexual slavery when he created Tuvok's wife for the soul purpose of getting sexed up. Worf's training program makes him literally a serial killer.If I recall that episode correctly, B'elanna just added a bunch of random variables to the existing program, it's not like she meticulously planned out the detailed death of his child. Plus she did it with his permission.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:35
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:If I recall that episode correctly, B'elanna just added a bunch of random variables to the existing program, it's not like she meticulously planned out the detailed death of his child. I'm pretty sure she did. Even if she didn't, she still did because gently caress her, that's why.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:44
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I don't know if you've watched Voyager before, but B'elanna is the biggest bitch on that ship. She has serious problems playing nice and likes to watch people squirm. I'm surprised she doesn't gently caress with everyone's escapist fantasy programmes. I really hated her character too, she was always just so drat disagreeable about every situation and we're supposed to feel bad for her because she's half Klingon. Well, Worf was a full Klingon and he lost his poo poo pretty rarely, and K'Ehleyr was at least apologetic to the people around her if she lost hers in private. I never understood what Tom Paris liked about B'elanna, I got tired just watching her.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
1st AD posted:they couldn't just outright have a That stereotype of the "fiery latina" weirds me right out. I've known a number of hispanic women, and they've all been pretty calm and non-aggressive in my experience. Like the redhead thing. I've met more calm and quiet redheads than I ever have loud and obnoxious ones.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
Next you'll be telling me that blondes aren't actually stupid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 05:19
|
|
|
No, they are. Tasha Yar died a pretty stupid loving death, and her daughter wasn't much smarter. And Tom Paris, well, he's a convicted murderer and a traitor who signed up with Starfleet to hunt down his former comrades in exchange for nebulous rewards. Blondes are dumb as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 05:27
|
|
|
Aw man, started watching "Real Life". The Doctor's family are a bunch of perfect Stepford folks straight out of some 1950s sitcom -- or maybe a cereal commercial! If I was B'Elana I'd be creeped out by them too. EDIT: Though, thinking about it, having them be total subservient robots does kind of fit with The Doctor's somewhat narcissistic personality. EDIT2: Ship goes through a very dangerous subspace eddy, and Janeway is all like "Wow, cool! Let's investigate this anomaly!" I like the little grin she gets when she becomes curious and excited to discover something new and do  EDIT3: Holy cow. Talk about your "random algorithms". It went from "Stepford Wives" perfect to totally dysfunctional! EDIT4: Tom Paris goes and sidles up to B'Elana in a really bad attempt at flirting. "I think I'll read it. Maybe it'll give me some ideas about how to make your heart quicken." Gawd. Soooooo laaaame!! EDIT5: Actually, this is a really good episode of Voyager. It let the Doctor show a new side of himself. The crew wasn't really dismissive of the Doctor's family at all, and B'Elana was only trying to help the Doctor by making the program more realistic. After watching it, I don't really get the complaints folks were having about it. It was honestly a fine episode. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Oct 30, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 05:32
|
|
|
McNally posted:In fairness, wasn't the idea of parallel development the new hotness that every sci-fi writer had a hard-on for in the 60s? I don't know about that. Star Trek used it as a way of bringing costs down and making the format affordable. It's explicitly stated in the series pitch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 05:38
|
|
|
BrandonGK posted:My favorite part of the episode is the fact that The Doctor experiencing the death of a child is never mentioned again, not even once. You mean Data????  90's TV was loving awful with that poo poo, so many important characters going off into the cornfield never to be mentioned again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 06:53
|
|
|
Honestly, I think the rise in overall quality is influenced by the proliferation of DVD and BR, as well as people binge-watching instead of waiting patiently each week.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:Honestly, I think the rise in overall quality is influenced by the proliferation of DVD and BR, as well as people binge-watching instead of waiting patiently each week. You might be on to something. I'm rewatching Voyager for the first time in quite a while. I like the show, but being able to pick from the whole series has had me skipping quite a few episodes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:09
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:No, they are. Tasha Yar died a pretty stupid loving death, and her daughter wasn't much smarter. What the hell are you talking about? I knew the cast of Voyager wasn't great, but apparently they're all murderers tonight. He washed out of Starfleet and hooked up with the Maquis for money/to piss off his dad, and then sold them out as soon as he got arrested.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:09
|
|
|
OtherworldlyInvader posted:You mean Data???? They brought up Lal in the episode where Data's "Mom" showed up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:17
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:What the hell are you talking about? I knew the cast of Voyager wasn't great, but apparently they're all murderers tonight. He washed out of Starfleet and hooked up with the Maquis for money/to piss off his dad, and then sold them out as soon as he got arrested. He got that cadet in star fleet killed while trying to show off his piloting skills. (yes I know they're different characters)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:20
|
|
|
Boxturret posted:He got that cadet in star fleet killed while trying to show off his piloting skills. Didn't they want to use the same character but they couldn't because they'd have to pay royalties to that episode's writers for every episode the character appeared in?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 18:15 |
|
|
Getting someone killed and being a murderer are not the same thing at all. Technically the idiot other guy got himself killed anyhow. Jackass sucked at flying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2013 07:47
|
|