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No no serious posted:Brothers: I've been a Mason for 10 years, and I'm embarrassed to say I never read a single Masonic book (well, I think I attempted Morals & Dogma once but gave up after a few pages). I don't even know where to start. Don't worry, I never read any Masonic book myself. I heard someone say that Dan Brown was spot on though. Oh, From Hell is awesome, does that one count as a Masonic book?
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Oct 29, 2013 20:30
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Holy poo poo thanks for the book recommendations. Edit: No that doesn't quite express my gratitude enough. Instead, I offer my warmest fraternal thanks. No no serious fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 21:43
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QPZIL posted:It's my dream to visit the HotT sometime in the next year or two - whenever that happens we'll have to meet up for a drink or a bite You've got yourself a deal!
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Oct 29, 2013 22:19
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QPZIL posted:So I earned my black hat today and am a Master of the Royal Secret. After a long time working with the York Rite, it's nice to see how the other half lives Welcome to the Dark Side.  imac1984 posted:We just had Art de Hoyos and S. Brent Morris give a talk at one of our last meetings about the latest edition of one of their books. My Lodge recently conferred the 1844 version of our Scottish Rite Master Mason Ritual on Br. de Hoyos. He's an awesome guy and love talking "shop" with him.
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Oct 30, 2013 01:17
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As an update to the Master Craftsman program, I got my first package today. For $35 I got a pretty nice little "Scottish Rite Master Craftsman" folder with an intro letter and the first test, and the Scottish Rite Ritual Guide & Monitor. Holy moly this book. It's well over 1000 pages and the outside is stamped with beautiful gold designs. The book alone goes for $75 in the official store! But for $35 you can get it plus a guided study program through the degrees. What an amazing deal.
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Oct 30, 2013 01:25
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Speaking of Br. de Hoyos, he just posted this picture on his Facebook and I think I peed a little. The House of the Temple's Library. Definitely on my bucket list.
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Oct 30, 2013 01:39
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Is anyone familiar with A.G. Mackey's Textbook of Masonic Jurisprudence? My grand lodge's museum sells a revised edition at a pretty reasonable cost, and as a law student I find the study of law of all stripes interesting. Would I be satisfied with the text as a Mason and a lawstudent? And, more importantly, should I steer clear of it before being raised to MM? It's one of the ones I think would probably be safe, dealing as it mostly does with the laws and bylaws of lodges and Masonry on the whole, but it never hurts to check before blundering into something by accident. I've had that happen a couple of times and it's always a bit annoying, even though I manage to make myself forget what it was until the appropriate time of revelation when it comes flooding back.
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Oct 30, 2013 12:16
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Loomer posted:Is anyone familiar with A.G. Mackey's Textbook of Masonic Jurisprudence? My grand lodge's museum sells a revised edition at a pretty reasonable cost, and as a law student I find the study of law of all stripes interesting. Would I be satisfied with the text as a Mason and a lawstudent? There shouldn't be anything in there, but err on the side of caution. How long before you get raised?
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Oct 30, 2013 14:03
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MB13 posted:Speaking of Br. de Hoyos, he just posted this picture on his Facebook and I think I peed a little. The House of the Temple's Library. Definitely on my bucket list. Holy crap. It's pretty amazing going through the history section of the Ritual Monitor and Guide, where they're talking about all these documents from the 1600s, more often than not there's a footnote that says something to the effect of, "one copy remains in the library of the Supreme Council." I can't imagine having access to the WEALTH of knowledge that Bro. de Hoyos has in that library. But also, reading about ritual aspects in documents from the 1600s that correspond to ritual aspects we still use today... that's pretty darn cool. 
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Oct 30, 2013 14:09
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TemetNosceXVIcubus posted:There shouldn't be anything in there, but err on the side of caution. How long before you get raised? Another six months, maybe seven, unless I ask for it to be delayed. This month I'm being passed to FC, which is exciting.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:07
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TemetNosceXVIcubus posted:One thing I've found in my travels, is Masons that act like fundamentalist bible thumpers, Mackey's "Masonic Parliamentary Law" is a book I'd like to thump upside the head of certain Brethren. Suffice it to say the Lodge I currently attend is a little more relaxed about matters of protocol than i'd prefer. That said I'll add my vote to the recommendations for "The Craft and Its Symbols", the NM Lodge of Research sent one to every new initiate in the state and it was a wonderful thing to have arrive in the mail unsolicited.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:43
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MB13 posted:My Lodge recently conferred the 1844 version of our Scottish Rite Master Mason Ritual on Br. de Hoyos. He's an awesome guy and love talking "shop" with him. You are going to have to explain what this is 'cause I have absolutely no idea! Well, explain as much as you can in an untiled SA thread haha
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Oct 30, 2013 22:25
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imac1984 posted:You are going to have to explain what this is 'cause I have absolutely no idea! Well, explain as much as you can in an untiled SA thread haha The "Blue Lodge" degrees as we think of them in the US are technically the first three degrees of the York Rite system, as far as lineage and history is concerned. So, what you and I have done, we took the first three degrees "York Rite style", and then took 4th - 32nd in the Scottish Rite. But when the first Supreme Council was founded in South Carolina in 1801, the Scottish Rite actually did have its own first three degrees, brought over from France (where the majority of the rest of the SR degrees came from). The SR forms of the degrees (sometimes called the "Red Lodge" degrees) are still conferred in some jurisdictions in Louisiana. In fact, for a short time there was a third Supreme Council in the US, in New Orleans. Because of that, the French/SR style of degrees flourished. After the Louisiana Supreme Council (I don't know if it had an official name) was absorbed into the Supreme Council Southern Jurisdiction, the French degree heritage stayed. And as with most SR stuff, a lot was re-written in the mid 1800s thanks to Albert Pike and a number of other very learned Brothers. Manuscripts still exist of a lot of the pre-revision degrees, which I believe is what MB13 is referring to. The Red Lodge degrees would be amazing to see on their own, let alone the almost-200-year-old versions!
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Oct 31, 2013 01:58
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QPZIL posted:The "Blue Lodge" degrees as we think of them in the US are technically the first three degrees of the York Rite system, as far as lineage and history is concerned. Yep, this right here. There's only maybe 13 or 14 Lodges in America that use the SR rituals for their degrees and 10 of them are in the New Orleans area. They make up the entire 16th Masonic District. My Lodge was founded by German immigrants in 1844 and conducted all rituals and such in German right up to 1944. About 15 years ago, one of our Past Masters found a copy of our 1844 Rituals in an old safe and gave them to my Uncle, who passed them on the Art de Hoyos for translation. We promised to give him an honorary membership in our Lodge, but Katrina happened, then that Past Master died and it was kind of forgotten about until recently. Our current Master decided to start exemplifying the degrees and we flew Art down to give him the 3rd and finally deliver what was promised to him all those years ago. The SR Rituals are truly beautiful and should be experienced by every Mason. Anyone traveling through New Orleans, let me know and I'll see what I can arrange.
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Oct 31, 2013 03:07
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I finally got a call from the lodge secretary, and apparently it wasn't a case of "we forgot", it was a case of losing one WM to resignation and prepping for elections next month. The secretary and I sat down last night, and went over a lot of the examination stuff, and I'm meeting him again on Saturday for round 2. If this goes well, I think I'll stick around this lodge rather than look elsewhere, mainly because it's the best fit in terms of its membership. I live about an hour away from the next lodge that has the varied makeup that this one has in therms of pretty much every variable, and the ability to still come together in brotherhood was a huge draw to Freemasonry in the first place.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:59
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Regarding the rule that a Freemason must believe in some sort of god/higher power, would someone who loosely subscribes to a pantheist/Taoist conception of "god" meet this requirement? I guess the basic question is if Freemasonry is tolerant of conceptions of god/higher power other than the omnipotent/omniscient creator figure that is most common? Would Spinoza's conception of god be permissible? From the wiki Spinozism article: when Spinoza wrote "Deus sive Natura" (God or Nature) Spinoza meant God was Natura naturans not Natura naturata, that is, "a dynamic nature in action, growing and changing, not a passive or static thing." Jaspers believed that Spinoza, in his philosophical system, did not mean to say that God and Nature are interchangeable terms, but rather that God's transcendence was attested by his infinitely many attributes, and that two attributes known by humans, namely Thought and Extension, signified God's immanence. e: more good stuff That humans presume themselves to have free will, he argues, is a result of their awareness of appetites which affect their minds while being unable to understand the reasons why they want and act as they do. Spinoza has been described by one writer as an "Epicurean materialist,"[72] although to call Spinoza a materialist (as the Epicureans were) would be misleading as he treats both thought (the realm of the mind and thought) and extension (physical reality) as derivatives of an ultimate, infinite substance (Deus sive Natura, or God) which expresses infinite attributes and modes. Zeno-25 fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 00:20
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The requirement varies by jurisdiction. Some places are purposely vague enough that it would certainly be enough. Others start throwing in language about believing in bodily resurrection or that your conception of deity rewards good and punishes evil. Even in the latter jurisdictions most of the time you will not be asked in detail about your religious belief. If you feel no tug of conscience in answering the question "Do you believe in God?" with a simple "Yes." it is good enough for most.
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Nov 1, 2013 00:41
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Sub Rosa posted:. If you feel no tug of conscience in answering the question "Do you believe in God?" with a simple "Yes." it is good enough for most. I suppose that in that case, my conscience would be tugging on me to ask for some elaboration on what is meant by using the word God. I was raised in a mainstream protestant household but then went through an agnostic/atheistic phase of my life which I no longer subscribe to. The idea of god (for lack of a better word) that I've arrived at as a result of that process is a bit different than what the majority of people have in mind when they talk about God, and would seem to be a distinct issue from the monotheism/polytheism question that has been addressed in this thread. Zeno-25 fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 00:59
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Zeno-25 posted:I suppose that in that case, my conscience would be tugging on me to ask for some elaboration on what is meant by using the word God. The way it works is that we swear oaths. Breaking an oath has to have a consequence because otherwise the oath is just  . So, if you take an oath and end it with something like "so help me god" then do YOU believe there is a consequence to breaking the oath?
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Nov 1, 2013 01:18
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Zeno-25 posted:I suppose that in that case, my conscience would be tugging on me to ask for some elaboration on what is meant by using the word God. This right here would satisfy me, because seeking the elaboration of the meaning or consequence of an idea implies a belief in the idea as extant. That is, if you want to know what is meant by God, then surely you must believe there is a God to be meant. I'm a member of a religion that has a questionable idea of Deity in strict terms, but I find in my conscience that I can justify it. Ultimately, you cannot really be asked what religion you are, but you should be able to answer that you can put your faith in God. Whether that means you believe in an anthropomorphic deity in the likeness of man, the ongoing process of the Universe as a verb rather than a noun, or the philosopher's god, the unmoved mover, if you can rely on it, count on it, and put your faith in it, you'll be fine.
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Nov 1, 2013 04:31
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Zeno-25 posted:I suppose that in that case, my conscience would be tugging on me to ask for some elaboration on what is meant by using the word God. I was raised in a mainstream protestant household but then went through an agnostic/atheistic phase of my life which I no longer subscribe to. The idea of god (for lack of a better word) that I've arrived at as a result of that process is a bit different than what the majority of people have in mind when they talk about God, and would seem to be a distinct issue from the monotheism/polytheism question that has been addressed in this thread. As Bro. Paramemetic stated above what you said here would be enough to satisfy me as well, if say I was to investigate you. Once you answer that question the topic is more or less done. There's a lot of spiritual stuff in Freemasonry but as far as formal religion goes, we generally mind our own business. Edit side note: I'm going to be Marshal next year 
Lovable Luciferian fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 04:47
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It'd satisfy me as well but I'm probably too new to have a proper opinion on this one. I know here it's a very relaxed attitude towards the exact specifics - just 'do you believe in god' and one small question to make sure we won't be violating any religious obligations in the part with the VSL, which I found a considerate touch.
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Nov 1, 2013 05:19
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Just a FYI, during your initiation you're going to be asked something along the lines of "So who do you trust the most?". A simple one-word answer will suffice, it's not the appropriate time to expound the greatness of whatever sky god you happen believe in.
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Nov 1, 2013 06:03
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Paramemetic posted:I'm a member of a religion that has a questionable idea of Deity in strict terms Let's not beat around the bush, man. The Basic Points Unifying the Mahayana and the Theravada posted:3. We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God. We're in such a grey area it's not even funny, but the fun part about this is I know Grand Officers who hold the same beliefs. If in you're mind you're not justifying a worldview that doesn't require faith (i.e. a pure atheistic one) when trying to weasel in a working definition of "god" then you're totally fine.
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Nov 1, 2013 06:52
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We have a Taoist in my Mother Lodge. It's not an issue here. There are a few (older) guys who will occasionally grumble about what constitutes a "valid" religion, but that kind of talk gets quashed pretty quickly, usually by any Grand Lodge officers who may be present.
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Nov 1, 2013 18:33
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Well, as someone here put it, "literally writing the book on" the York Rite here has started to pay off. After the YR meeting last night, three different guys formed a line to talk to me, each wanting me to join their officer line. I'm officially going to be the Commandery Sentinel next year, officially going to be an officer in the Allied Masonic Degrees next year (depends on who has dropped out of the line and what spots will be open), and tentatively will be either Royal Arch Sentinel or Chaplain next year (I'm being recommended, but it's up to the incoming High Priest).  Time to start my work, brothers.It was actually really shocking and humbling. Our incoming Commander is a former sheriff of this county, and a former Grand Master. If he ever walks into a room where he doesn't know half the people, I'll be dead shocked. He came up to me and said, "brother QPZIL, I've really noticed how you're always here, you're always attentive, you go out of your way for Masonry, and I'm told that you even write a number of papers and book-type-things for the Craft. There are a number of really capable guys in this room who I know have been waiting to get into the line, but I'd be honored if you'd join the line under my command." This is a guy who I really admire and look up to in Masonry, just a really great person. Totally caught me off guard and humbled me. WAFFLEHOUND posted:If in you're mind you're not justifying a worldview that doesn't require faith (i.e. a pure atheistic one) when trying to weasel in a working definition of "god" then you're totally fine. This is the key point. If any, any Mason asks you about your religious views, you tell him straight-up, "that's my business." If you can honestly - and I mean honest to yourself - answer the question "in whom do you put your trust" with the answer "in God," then you're qualified to be a Mason. I have a very... unique definition for the word "God" with a capital-G, and honestly I'm still trying to completely write out that definition. But nobody will ask me about that, and it fulfills me Masonically, so that's all that matters. Count Thrashula fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 16:10
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So, Brothers. My lodge seems to be doing a great job of souring my love of the craft. I want to say it's something in me, something I could change in myself, but I really feel like I've been sailing on a ship of fools. Please, somebody, say something, anything, that might inspire me to show up for the upcoming elections? To show up and vote for officers that are already handpicked. I found myself dressed in a suit today, staring at the clock, not feeling able to find the desire to walk up the driveway and get in my car. Thanksgiving dinner just held no appeal to me. It used to be when I was upset with brothers, I could just show up after the meeting, help whoever was in the kitchen with dishes, and feel better without having to interact too much. Now the meals are all catered and cleaned up by a pair of Non Masons... In short, I'm losing the faith in my brothers, but hold my ideals dearly. Quoth my on and off girlfriend "That sucks, you really loved the lodge" Quoth myself "please never say that about me again, that's usually said about dead Masons"
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Nov 10, 2013 14:17
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It sounds like there are a lot of things going on at your lodge that you do not approve of, and maybe that sentiment would be held by others? Perhaps you could try and talk to a district deputy and see what their opinion about these things is. I will say that even if something is going on that isn't by the books, even if you get someone higher up involved, nothing will likely change. I've had Recorders and other officers literally stealing from the lodge and cooking the books and when provided evidence, even the GM didn't do poo poo. My opinion in cases where you are unhappy with your lodge or appendant body is to just demit and find yourself another that is made up of people that aren't assholes. Even if you do get rid of the cancer that is already there, some others are usually already infected and just lying in wait.
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Nov 10, 2013 17:51
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So am I to understand that y'all would generally say that inside of almost every lodge are at least a couple of people with their hearts genuinely in the right place towards their fellow man?
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Nov 11, 2013 03:42
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I personally have never known an entire lodge without at least a handful of brothers who were a boon to the craft.
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Nov 11, 2013 04:02
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That's really what has always kept me coming back, that handfull. To be a part of that. When I joined a few years ago, I remember taking what money I had to pay the entrance fee, and I said, to my now dead mentor, "It's either this or one a them new Xbox's". Since then I've watched so many red ring, but the lodge has marched on. Seems like I got a good answer. Thank you.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:24
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The thing to remember is that Masonry, despite our goal of improving ourselves, is no less susceptible to incorrect intent and action than any other organization. There will always be Masons who have joined for the wrong reasons, just like police officers and teachers and anything else. And while it can be disheartening when we see those members in a position of power we must remember that this is not the norm. For every lodge with some brother cooking books or refusing to recognize Prince Hall lodges or rowing with the Shriners there are dozens made up of men who are there for the right reasons. I'm certain you can find one.
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Nov 11, 2013 17:38
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Well this is... a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxGI9hlblpY
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Nov 11, 2013 19:56
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QPZIL posted:Well this is... a thing. Brace yourselves, the mercenary petitions are coming!
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Nov 11, 2013 20:00
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Can anyone recommend an Austin lodge?
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Nov 11, 2013 20:10
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lord1234 posted:Can anyone recommend an Austin lodge? You could use the following page to find whatever lodge is closest to you. http://www.grandlodgeoftexas.org/lodgelocator Other than that, there's a forum called Masons of Texas ( https://www.masonsoftexas.com ) where you could ask. edit-- oh, it's been renamed MyFreemasonry apparently, but it's still full of Texas Masons.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:15
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The one closest to you is easiest to start with. I made some friends and joined the one they were at, not the one closest to my home. Now most of them are gone or dead. It's applying the principles of Masonry to whatever lodge you are at. Lead by example, and keep the faith, they work. So well in fact, that's why the Masonry will survive anything. My crisis of faith in the system, took only a simple reminder from these guys to fix. That says a lot, to me at least. As for that movie... ugh. Mercs come and go. You'll see why they say that a Mason is a Mason in his heart. It's not easy to be an exemplary Mason, but it's worth trying. Just the effort improves every aspect of your life. One more thing, great book, the one that I found the fraternity with, Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages. So much wisdom in there, and in his lectures. The Manly Hall Facebook page puts out his quotes constantly, and every one is Masonic in attitude.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:09
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QPZIL posted:Well this is... a thing. If you watch carefully, you can see it does not seem right because the lighting is done in a sloppy way.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:10
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I have to do my proficiency for EA and afterwards i go through the FC degree. I am going in completely blind since i don't think i've read or heard anything about what goes on. This should be exciting and hopefully i'll be more relaxed than during my initiation (which was only a month ago... drat that's fast) since i feel more comfortable in lodge. Wish me luck brothers!
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Nov 14, 2013 16:54
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lord1234 posted:Can anyone recommend an Austin lodge? Hill City #456, I lived in Austin for years and that was my lodge of choice. I initially started with Austin #12 but I found that they were less fond of younger people and more fond of their ritual than I could handle, where #456 is a much more pleasant experience, for the most part. Hill City has some good people and some good food, and they're far less up their own rear end about Masonry. They're also super easy to drop in and visit, since they meet a bit more regularly and every other meeting is less official business and more an excuse for dinner with a dash of Masonry on the side. A good lodge. I mean I also got kicked out of #456 for like, a year, but I like the lodge still. 
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Nov 14, 2013 17:19
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