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Went out for a walk and took this pic: See all the cranes out in the distance? Under construction are the following projects: 1) Central 2) Meccanica 3) Lido 4) Block 100 5) West 6) Wall Centre False Creek 7) James Not visible but nearby: 8) Evan 9) Shine 10) Collection 45 And immediately to the right of the photo, where the second hand car lot sits is an application to rezone for a condo. That's like what, 4000 new apartments? Maybe 3000?
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Nov 1, 2013 22:37
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As my dad used to say. The official bird of Vancouver: The Crane
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Nov 1, 2013 22:46
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Squibbles posted:As my dad used to say. The official bird of Vancouver: The Crane I've heard the same thing about Calgary. The condo boom seems to be slowing down though, I can only think of 2-3 new developments off the top of my head.
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Nov 1, 2013 23:16
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Condos only 5 years old have lost like 20% of their value but they keep building more. Even Victoria has a TON of projects pending approval or currently under construction, even have a new tallest building in the city about to be done. A huge suburban condo project just went bankrupt though. I never believed it would ever be built and it was a stupid idea. A bunch of 20+ story towers out in the middle of nowhere suburbia along with a big new strip mall replacing the one they tore down. From the very start people thought it was the wrong location and the project was called "Colwood corners" as that's what the area is called by locals. Well the developer didn't want to feel so suburban or borderline rural so they re-named the project, a project no where near downtown or even in Victoria "Capital City Centre" and it's marketing was entirely based on how cool and urban the project is. Which of course was relentlessly mocked by both Victoria and Colwood locals. Fast forward a bit and all the talk is about their finances being hosed and a borderline scam. The developer actually tried to press charges against people warning not to buy into the project as the finances didn't add up. They constantly said the project was totally funded and everything was great. Now, keep in mind this is a HUGE project. Not just 5+ towers but a couple strip-mall style retail buildings and an office building. Nearly every phase of the project was to share a massive underground parkade. I've worked with projects like this in the past and they'd always build the parkade in phases. Underground is by far the most expensive part of the project so if you can get away with building the parkade in chunks to serve the phases as they come online that's the way to do it. These guys for what ever reason decided to build the parkade all at once first and then built out the stuff that will actually make them money over the next 5 years or so. Well now Colwood is down one strip mall and up one absolutely massive hole in the ground. Who ever saw that coming? Langford had some similar stories with huge condo projects. On top of bear mountain are the husks of some failed, sorry 'stalled' projects. It's almost like building massive 20 story condos way the gently caress out in the burbs or country not near any transit let alone basic amenities and services is a really stupid idea. Are there people who say to them selves "I really wish I had all the cramped expensive living of an urban condo, but with the city and it's amenities far away." ?? Because these condos were barely any cheaper than ones in the city. But in Victoria proper? Construction doesn't seem to be slowing down at all, if anything it's booming like I haven't seen in the last 5 years. All classes too, everything from "affordable" micro units to "entry level" or "affordable luxury" stuff to balls to the walls 3000+ sqft 4 bedroom luxury buildings. Some fairly cool buildings too. Got some huge office projects coming down the pipes as well. A bunch of stalled or life-support projects downtown have started back up again too. It's all really cementing the idea that we've had our soft landing and you better buy now before things start going back to normal (ie perpetual unsustainable price!) Pre-sales are absolutely down though. Developers that would sell at least 50% or even sell out before construction are lucky to get 20-30% pre-sales and they have to push and incentivise a lot more.
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Nov 1, 2013 23:32
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Baronjutter, do you know what happens next to these partially built projects? Is the developer just like, l a t e r s?
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Nov 1, 2013 23:37
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If it's anything like Calgary it will sit as an empty hole for 5-10 years until a new developer tries putting something else up on top of it. Edit: Generally the developer and/or builder will go bankrupt so the city/municipality is left holding the bag. This trick is also used on finished buildings so when a 5 year old building needs hundreds of thousands of structural work done the tenants get right proper hosed.
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Nov 1, 2013 23:42
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Demon_Corsair posted:If it's anything like Calgary it will sit as an empty hole for 5-10 years until a new developer tries putting something else up on top of it. Which means that 1133 W. Georgia is going to remain a husk of concrete and rebar for another 20 loving years when the Trump Tower runs out of money. Great.
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Nov 1, 2013 23:45
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Their subsidiary of a holding company registered to a numbered company funded by another numbered company files for creditor protection, the construction company takes their equipment and anything that isn't nailed down off the site and the actual humans running said company walk away and the site is left abandoned. Any attempts to recoup money or demand site clean-up is met with "Um I'm just an individual who worked for [numbered company] that is currently bankrupt and dissolved so I have nothing to do with this situation anymore bye!" So yeah basically nothing. The contractors stop working and everyone just leaves the site and a bank or something takes ownership of the property which is then later sold. Sometimes a new developer steps in and builds a scaled-down version of the project on the foundation/bones of the old one, or sometimes you just get a flooded pit with rusty rebar sticking up for 20 years. Often due to abandonment what they built isn't salvageable and the demo and cleanup costs make the site very unattractive to re-development. Some cities force developers to have a fund that if poo poo does go bad, there's enough money to clean up the site. But Langford sold it's self as the most developer-friendly city on the island and got stuck with quite a few abandoned sites and failed projects. One of the best though was a private/public partnership to build an entire highway overpass to link the highway with another horrible mountain-sprawl (clear cut the mountain, level/terrace it, jam pack it full of ugly houses). The city began construction of the overpass but the developer vanished leaving the city with a half finished overpass leading to nowhere. They just recently finished it (with public money of course) but it's still entirely unnecessary and will just be a free subsidy for who ever develops the area next. There was also a lot of dodgy stuff between the mayor and Len Barrie. The mayor has been mayor since the early 90's. His vision is disgusting but he's accomplished a LOT. He turned red-neck trailer-park butt of regional jokes into a middle-upper class sprawl of houses, big box stores, and "lifestyle centres". The place is an unsustainable nightmare from an urban planning and socio-economic perspective and due to regional politics the highway linking Langford to Victoria is a jammed mess that's only getting worse, but by god you can get a house for under 500k there designed by a real authentic Albertan architecture firm based on their idea of what west coast architecture is. They even added into their zoning bylaws that all buildings have to have a minimum % of fake river-rock cladding because that's their city's theme! "Architecture" (thank god this one of the failed/cancelled towers)  I love that it's just a Edmonton style apartment block with a chalet roof on top because "west coast". Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 23:55
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Cultural Imperial posted:Went out for a walk and took this pic: The condo bubble is pretty bad but at least they often have free coffee/snacks as part of their cheesy PR campaigns.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:01
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I've always known Langford as the next worst place on Vancouver Island after Nanaimo. I don't think I've been there in 15 years. drat... I've been poking around the web and found a compendium of stuff on 1153 W. Georgia. From this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138004 It turns out the old husk was built in 1960 and someone attempted to renovate it in 1994 but disappeared and left it looking like this:   
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Nov 2, 2013 00:02
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etalian posted:The condo bubble is pretty bad but at least they often have free coffee/snacks as part of their cheesy PR campaigns. My guilty pleasure is being on all the condo mailing lists and going to all the grand openings. I've been driven around in a limo-bus while being fed champagne, eaten some drat good free meals, and actually met some cool architects and professionals in the field. There is a LOT of free stuff out there if you're willing to pretend to seem interested in a condo.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:04
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Cultural Imperial posted:Went out for a walk and took this pic: Jesus, I probably walked right past you. 
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Nov 2, 2013 00:07
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Baronjutter posted:My guilty pleasure is being on all the condo mailing lists and going to all the grand openings. I've been driven around in a limo-bus while being fed champagne, eaten some drat good free meals, and actually met some cool architects and professionals in the field. There is a LOT of free stuff out there if you're willing to pretend to seem interested in a condo. I salute you for taking the free stuff raids to the next level. It makes me think of those cheesy timeshare scam meetings where you get a free steakhouse coupon or bad vacation to Florida voucher after enduring the sales pitch.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:09
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Fine-able Offense posted:Jesus, I probably walked right past you. Well gently caress YOU AND YOUR loving BEARD AND YOUR loving FLANNEL AND YOUR loving SS OFFICER HAIRCUT 
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Nov 2, 2013 00:09
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Baronjutter posted:My guilty pleasure is being on all the condo mailing lists and going to all the grand openings. I've been driven around in a limo-bus while being fed champagne, eaten some drat good free meals, and actually met some cool architects and professionals in the field. There is a LOT of free stuff out there if you're willing to pretend to seem interested in a condo. My g/f feels so guilty about going to open houses and not buying anything, she has to make up stories about how we're interesting in buying.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:13
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Cultural Imperial posted:My g/f feels so guilty about going to open houses and not buying anything, she has to make up stories about how we're interesting in buying. Having a better half makes a better cover story since the salesmen really love pitch the whole owning a place together concept. Just think of the amenities our condo will have such as massages and pilates classes. How can you resist?
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Nov 2, 2013 00:15
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Cultural Imperial posted:Well gently caress YOU AND YOUR loving BEARD AND YOUR loving FLANNEL AND YOUR loving SS OFFICER HAIRCUT Two out of three!
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Nov 2, 2013 00:17
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etalian posted:Having a better half makes a better cover story since the salesmen really love pitch the whole owning a place together concept. Just think of the amenities our condo will have such as massages and pilates classes. On the other hand, insolvency! This skyscraperpage forum is amazing. For instance, Craft brewery is opening nov 7th. The new condo tower The Rize has been 'postponed indefinitely' because the potential leasee of the commercial space couldn't find financing. They were described as an organic supermarket. Oh poo poo motherfuckers! namaste friends fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 00:20
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I know the guys who run skyscraperpage, they sell cool posters and their skyscraper diagram system is pretty cool. They also run vibrantvictoria which is basically the place to go for development and general city news about Victoria. But it's absolutely full of people who believe there's no bubble and at worst a soft landing and the posting skews pretty right/conservative. I think they're just so close to the development and real-estate world they can't see clearly. There's like 1-2 people on the whole forums who sometimes mention bubbles and prices going down and they get laughed off the forums.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:51
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Baronjutter posted:I know the guys who run skyscraperpage, they sell cool posters and their skyscraper diagram system is pretty cool. They also run vibrantvictoria which is basically the place to go for development and general city news about Victoria. But it's absolutely full of people who believe there's no bubble and at worst a soft landing and the posting skews pretty right/conservative. I think they're just so close to the development and real-estate world they can't see clearly. There's like 1-2 people on the whole forums who sometimes mention bubbles and prices going down and they get laughed off the forums. I remember reading about how a massive expansion in skyscraper construction is the best way to predict a future bubble due to the massive levels of credit required.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:54
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Cultural Imperial posted:Well gently caress YOU AND YOUR loving BEARD AND YOUR loving FLANNEL AND YOUR loving SS OFFICER HAIRCUT ~*Main Street*~
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Nov 2, 2013 01:48
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JawKnee posted:~*Main Street*~ So the guide was true? 
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Nov 2, 2013 01:50
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Cultural Imperial posted:I've always known Langford as the next worst place on Vancouver Island after Nanaimo. I don't think I've been there in 15 years. drat... Huh. A Ferrari 412. Don't see those every day.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:19
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A 71-storey tower in Edmonton? I give them points for being ballsy, at least.
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Nov 2, 2013 07:14
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Yeah I really want to be able to see fort mcmurray from my condo. go gently caress yourself terry
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Nov 2, 2013 07:19
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so the current tallest building in town from what I remember is less than half that height? I feel like they should just go for 99 storeys, the costs of adding additional stories to these things once they get that tall is pretty low anyway. Wayne Gretzky Tower.
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Nov 2, 2013 10:43
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Starsfan posted:so the current tallest building in town from what I remember is less than half that height? They should just go the Judge Dredd path and name them after canadian celebes. So there would be Lightfoot tower, Rob Ford Tower and Lavigne Tower.
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Nov 2, 2013 14:51
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I live in Nanaimo and currently the buzz is that housing prices are set to sky rocket locally due to "Chinese Investors" building a large hotel and "those rich foreigners" driving up housing prices since everyone wants to live here. I've had no less than 5 friends (all home owners) tell me now is the time to buy since the market is clearly at the bottom and things can only go up from here. When did owning a house suddenly qualify someone to give financial advice by the way? At least half of these people hardly have any savings and would be absolutely hosed if interest rates went up even a few percent but they have a house and a mortgage so they know better about these kind of things. Drives me crazy. I'm currently renting with my wife and I'll be honest I love it. We rent a basement suite and the homeowner works out of Fort Mac (3 weeks in, 1 week out). Nice guy and he's hardly ever around so there's never any noise. Combine that with no maintenance, included utilities and being 5 minutes from where we work and it's pretty ideal. If I could convince my wife to ride this out for another few years we'd be set but she's started to tell me she wants her own space soon. The amount we're banking per month makes it hard to give up though. I do want a house someday, but reading through this thread really makes it a tough sell for myself.
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Nov 3, 2013 11:03
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Diamato posted:Combine that with no maintenance, included utilities and being 5 minutes from where we work and it's pretty ideal. If I could convince my wife to ride this out for another few years we'd be set but she's started to tell me she wants her own space soon. The amount we're banking per month makes it hard to give up though. Yeah being close to work it a great thing when you look at the amount of time and stress you save each week by not having to commute from a mcmansion in the boondocks.
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Nov 3, 2013 16:31
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Rich Chinese in Nanaimo...I don't know what to say.
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Nov 3, 2013 17:38
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Cultural Imperial posted:Rich Chinese in Nanaimo...I don't know what to say. It's just sad, really. The collective delusion of it all.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:04
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etalian posted:Yeah being close to work it a great thing when you look at the amount of time and stress you save each week by not having to commute from a mcmansion in the boondocks. Speaking of which, me and my wife found a great apartment for only 1300 a month within a 10 min walk of the inner-harbour and steps away from downtown yet on a very quiet little residential street. It's basically perfect other than slightly fussy/controlling landlords. Going to apply for it. We've come a long way from being condo crazy to rental crazy. A similar sized condo in a similar area would have been about 300k, plus condo fees, plus unexpected bullshit down the road. I don't even need to do the math on the rent/buy ratio to know the answer is "hosed". We were sort of agonizing over it but we realized hey, if we don't like it we just fuckin' move. No sunk costs, nothing. Renting man!!! I hope we get this place and it works out. Also that nanaimo news is some of the most adorable stuff I've heard in a while.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:10
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Baronjutter posted:Speaking of which, me and my wife found a great apartment for only 1300 a month within a 10 min walk of the inner-harbour and steps away from downtown yet on a very quiet little residential street. It's basically perfect other than slightly fussy/controlling landlords. Going to apply for it. We've come a long way from being condo crazy to rental crazy. A similar sized condo in a similar area would have been about 300k, plus condo fees, plus unexpected bullshit down the road. I don't even need to do the math on the rent/buy ratio to know the answer is "hosed". Yeah buying only makes sense if it gives you a really big monthly cost savings vs. renting.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:14
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etalian posted:Yeah buying only makes sense if it gives you a really big monthly cost savings vs. renting. Plus pride of ownership. Don't forget that.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:53
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Baronjutter posted:Speaking of which, me and my wife found a great apartment for only 1300 a month within a 10 min walk of the inner-harbour and steps away from downtown yet on a very quiet little residential street. It's basically perfect other than slightly fussy/controlling landlords. Going to apply for it. We've come a long way from being condo crazy to rental crazy. A similar sized condo in a similar area would have been about 300k, plus condo fees, plus unexpected bullshit down the road. I don't even need to do the math on the rent/buy ratio to know the answer is "hosed". Cool, good luck with the application.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:58
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Baronjutter posted:Plus pride of ownership. Don't forget that. It's only home ownership if you paid in cash 
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Nov 3, 2013 19:29
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Serious question, for brighter minds than mine: what would you generally consider to be a sane price-to-income ratio for a house? Assuming that interest rates stabilize near historic norms.
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Nov 3, 2013 20:32
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Albino Squirrel posted:Serious question, for brighter minds than mine: what would you generally consider to be a sane price-to-income ratio for a house? Ranges 2.5-3.5 times median house price vs income is what I consider normal, for horrible bubble areas like Vancouver the ratio changes to 8-9. Somewhat off topic but here's a link with major US metro areas: http://www.forbes.com/sites/zillow/2013/04/16/high-home-price-to-income-ratios-hiding-behind-low-mortgage-rates/ etalian fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 3, 2013 |
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Nov 3, 2013 20:41
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The long-term British average is a little over 4x annual household income, for what it's worth.
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Nov 3, 2013 21:18
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etalian posted:Ranges 2.5-3.5 times median house price vs income is what I consider normal, for horrible bubble areas like Vancouver the ratio changes to 8-9. It may be a boring town, but at least here in Columbus you can get a decent apartment for $500 a month and condos can run under $100k. It's like I'm reading about another world whenever I read these threads about real estate in large cities with hot real estate bubbles. I know there can be a lot of higher salaries in these towns, but I don't understand how the average person survives. Are there cheaper housing on the outskirts of the city? Do fast food and retail workers stack 10 deep in a house?
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Nov 3, 2013 23:44
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