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 This is great.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:07
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sirtommygunn posted:Maybe it's just me, but it seems a little weird to read this far through a book series when you want the main character/narrator to die horribly. I think you may have misunderstood. I said I want that to be the way the series ends. Six books in and it is obvious that Butcher is taking more chances and doing things that you wouldn't normally see in this particular genre. As such, I think a Harry death would be a fitting way to end the series. Or maybe have Harry turn into the Lasciel Denarian and start loving poo poo up and then have Ebeneezer and Michael team up to take him down. If it's going to end, do something interesting.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:21
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Waltzing Along posted:I think you may have misunderstood. I said I want that to be the way the series ends. Six books in and it is obvious that Butcher is taking more chances and doing things that you wouldn't normally see in this particular genre. As such, I think a Harry death would be a fitting way to end the series. Heh. Just keep on reading .
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Nov 2, 2013 02:31
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Waltzing Along posted:I think you may have misunderstood. I said I want that to be the way the series ends. Six books in and it is obvious that Butcher is taking more chances and doing things that you wouldn't normally see in this particular genre. As such, I think a Harry death would be a fitting way to end the series.  Well, let's just say... keep reading. Dead Beat is my favorite due to sheer genius on Harry's part. Sure, he's a douchebag, but he's a douchebag who's good at what he does.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:32
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By the way, if you watch this Q&A, Jim Butcher explains exactly what went wrong on the TV series.
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Nov 2, 2013 03:37
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Waltzing Along posted:As for my buddy, I gave him Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic and he is struggling. He wants more Granny and I said, well, she shows up in book three, but it isn't until book six where you really start to get into classic Pratchett but from that point and on through the next 30 book or so, it gets better and better so you have that. He also feels bad because I've read six books to his two young adult novels and part of a third. So maybe when he sees this thread he'll pull his cock out of his rear end and start reading so he can get to Night Watch some day and see why people freak out about Vimes so much. Not that he knows who Vimes is, but he will and then he can read Thud and I can hand him Where's My Cow and his life will be complete. I think it's interesting that you're having your buddy read Pratchett's Discworld stuff in order, because while there is a general timeline for all of the books, I certainly wouldn't be worried about reading them out of order. I know I certainly didn't, and while some of the stuff in, for example, some of the Vimes books might be a bit confusing reading them out of order, the books themselves are standalone enough that it shouldn't be an issue. ETA: also nthing "keep reading"
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Nov 2, 2013 03:38
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Waltzing Along posted:
He's struggling because those books are among the weakest books Pratchett's ever written. You don't really need to read the discworld books in order, with the possible exception of the Watch books. The books you should suggest for the Discworld, if he's interested in the Witches and Granny Weatherwax are Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Maskerade, and Carpe Jugulum. You don't need to read any of the other books to get them, and I think Equal Rites isn't a particularly great book to start with. Also, keep going. The books get better as he goes along.
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Nov 2, 2013 03:59
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I explained all this to him and then said, okay, what do you want to do: 1 - start at the beginning 2 - start with a random book 3 - start with the nac mac feegle He chose wisely. Once he was hooked I recommended he start at the beginning because he already knows that he likes what is coming. This way he gets all the background stuff first, rather than later.
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Nov 2, 2013 04:19
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Waltzing Along posted:I explained all this to him and then said, okay, what do you want to do: Those are all good routes, but I still maintain the best place to start is Guards, Guards!. It's the most mature and well-developed book that starts a major plot thread, apart from the Tiffany Aching books, and the Tiffany Aching books are juveniles which can give new readers a slightly off-kilter view on the rest of the Discworld since it's not a uniformly YA series.
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Nov 2, 2013 04:21
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Oh definitely but the feel is the same. The first few books are really dense/heavy. But they get lighter and smoother as his vision came into focus. I've started Dead Beat. So far I really dug when Murphy gave him the keys to her back door. Heh heh. And I just read my favorite passage in any of the books so far: quote:I mean, we're all going to die. We know that on an intellectual level. We figure it out sometime when we're still fairly young, and it scares us so badly that we convince ourselves we're immortal for more than a decade afterward. It's actually a fairly Pratchett-like quote.
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Nov 2, 2013 04:49
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Waltzing Along posted:I explained all this to him and then said, okay, what do you want to do: Personally, I always go with Small Gods for a starter. Self-contained and brilliant, it's one of my favorites.
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Nov 2, 2013 17:03
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Continuing my reread, am I the only one who's not crazy about White Night? For some reason I can't put my finger on, it's my least favorite Dresden book.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:26
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White Knight is one of my favorites, myself. I like the White Court, I like Ramirez, I like Lasciel, I like Harry learning what Thomas' secret is. I like pretty much everything about it. Personally, my least favorite by far is Proven Guilty. I'm just very bleh on the entire thing.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:35
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BrooklynBruiser posted:Continuing my reread, am I the only one who's not crazy about White Night? For some reason I can't put my finger on, it's my least favorite Dresden book. Nah, I agree with you - White Night is definitely my least favorite post-Dead Beat, but it's hard to say why. The best I can come up with is that the plot, when compared to the books around it, just seems kinda... irrelevant's not the best word, but it's the only thing I can think of.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:44
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I also don't like White Night very much. The double narrative doesn't work, but more than that, it's the White Court that I don't like. I've come to the conclusion that I dislike the White Court in general. I'm not a fan of Blood Rites or White Night. Even Turn Coat, which is easily one of the best in the series, is marred by their presence. The White Court bits in Turn Coat are only drag in the book, but are largely saved by the Naglioshii, who is goddamned awesome. Sadly, Skin Game is due to be another vampire book as well as a Denarian book. I really hope it's Black Court (Mavra) instead of White Court, or if it's White, that they take a backseat to the Denarians.
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Nov 4, 2013 07:00
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Khizan posted:White Knight is one of my favorites, myself. I like the White Court, I like Ramirez, I like Lasciel, I like Harry learning what Thomas' secret is. I like pretty much everything about it. I'm with you. I don't really care for horror movies, so Proven Guilty didn't do that much for me. The raid on winter was cool as poo poo though.
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Nov 4, 2013 07:11
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BrooklynBruiser posted:Continuing my reread, am I the only one who's not crazy about White Night? For some reason I can't put my finger on, it's my least favorite Dresden book. I feel the same way. For me it mostly has to do with the first half of the book. The serial killings, Elaine not really doing a whole lot, Thomas being presented as a potential suspect (which at this point none of us really believed), some poo poo with Marcone. It all felt disjointed and a little pointless to me. The book's showdown in the deeps and Lash's fate were very well done though. I also liked the flashback of Harry being a stone cold badass at Warden training camp. Mostly it was just an uneven book. I felt kind of the same way about Proven Guilty. Dull plot at the Horror Convention, only to have a fantastic second half.
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Nov 4, 2013 07:25
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I'm glad we all agree on this. Excluding the first two books White Night and Proven Guilty are the worst entries in the series. For me WN lacked flow, like it was just a series of scenes instead of a proper story arch. Been so long since I've read it though I'm not sure I can say why that is exactly.
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Nov 4, 2013 07:58
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ConfusedUs posted:I've come to the conclusion that I dislike the White Court in general. Yeah, I have to agree with you there. They're supposed to be these incredible manipulators, and we certainly get told that over and over, but the closest we come to actually seeing it is Lara hammering Harry's 'chivalrous idiot' button over and over. It's not exactly impressive.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:05
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I'm actually okay with Proven Guilty, but Molly is probably my favorite character in the books. Death Masks would my pick for least liked between Fool Moon and Ghost Story.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:15
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Stroth posted:Yeah, I have to agree with you there. They're supposed to be these incredible manipulators, and we certainly get told that over and over, but the closest we come to actually seeing it is Lara hammering Harry's 'chivalrous idiot' button over and over. It's not exactly impressive. Well, that and controlling a significant fraction of the US Navy offscreen.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:20
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Tunicate posted:Well, that and controlling a significant fraction of the US Navy offscreen. Yeah. offscreen. And they control hollywood and the fashion industry. Offscreen. It's all told to us, but we never actually see it. Show, don't tell is taught in high school english classes. There's no excuse for a best selling author.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:38
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The problem with the White Court and their manipulations is that the books are all from Harry's viewpoint. You don't see all their behind the scenes manipulations and schemes because Harry never sees them. We only get to see the ones that he sees and he only sees the ones that directly involve him in some fashion, and most of those are just Lara using Harry's chivalrous idiot button to eliminate one of her more overtly evil opponents.
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Nov 4, 2013 09:01
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It makes sense that it could be tricky to "show" less overt attributes but that doesn't change the fact that Butcher never demonstrates most of the white court's power, he just tells us about it. It would not of been too difficult to say set Dresden up for a murder and have the charges simply disappear and only later we find out its due to white court influence. That is a bad example but some similar display of manipulative power that isn't just a discussion of it. Maybe the White Court can help Harry hit the mundane world's panic button during the apocalyptic trilogy.
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Nov 4, 2013 10:35
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Maybe the White Court can help Harry hit the mundane world's panic button during the apocalyptic trilogy. Would it even take that? If even a few wardens made a really public display of their power in front of high level human authorities the gig would be instantly up. In fact it's kind of dumb that no one did just that when it looked like the Red Court was about to win the war. It's apparent that most wizards would be willing to die to protect mankind, why would no one alert the population to the imminent apocalypse? Even if humans do have a tendency to pick up on the pitchforks it seems like a smart move especially considering that they could easily present themselves as allies and saviors. Also, the army securing passageways in the Never Never or defending the Outer Gates would be the  est thing ever. It wouldn't gel with what the Dresden Files are all about so it probably shouldn't be done but god drat! Incidentally, is it ever referred if the Outsiders are vulnerable to iron as well? MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 15:32
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I think the outsiders would just brainfuck the humans, so sending them to the outer gates would probably not be a good idea. And the Faeries would definitely object to a human army, with all their iron, camping out in the Never Never. Also it would be way cooler to see a handful of wizards, or maybe Ebenezar on his own or something, holding off a huge amount of enemies. I definitely think magic is cooler than bombs. v  v
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Nov 4, 2013 16:49
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The Puppy Bowl posted:It makes sense that it could be tricky to "show" less overt attributes but that doesn't change the fact that Butcher never demonstrates most of the white court's power, he just tells us about it. It would not of been too difficult to say set Dresden up for a murder and have the charges simply disappear and only later we find out its due to white court influence. That is a bad example but some similar display of manipulative power that isn't just a discussion of it. Like having a navy carrier group diverted to save his friends?
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Nov 4, 2013 17:39
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Silento posted:I think the outsiders would just brainfuck the humans, so sending them to the outer gates would probably not be a good idea. And the Faeries would definitely object to a human army, with all their iron, camping out in the Never Never. Eh, seeing Rashid cut loose is probably going to be more impressive than anything Ebenezar does. I mean, sure, Ebenezar is the Black Staff, but Rashid is the loving Gate Keeper. He's the one that gave Demonreach it's limp, so you know he's got the chops to seriously gently caress some poo poo up when it comes down to it.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:09
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Wade Wilson posted:Eh, seeing Rashid cut loose is probably going to be more impressive than anything Ebenezar does. I mean, sure, Ebenezar is the Black Staff, but Rashid is the loving Gate Keeper. He's the one that gave Demonreach it's limp, so you know he's got the chops to seriously gently caress some poo poo up when it comes down to it. Without the blackstaff, Ebenezar is widely known as the heavyweight champion of legit wizards, although the Merlin might be the champion of defensive magic. The guy explodes mayan pyramids full of vampires as a standard attack. High level warlocks like Cowl and Kemmler aren't considered legit wizards for the purpose of this ranking, as they use forbidden lores and stuff like outsider pacts to get where they are. When Ebenezar cuts loose as the Blackstaff, hundreds of humans just die instantly. Let's also not forget that with preparation time, he's been known to drop meteors on small cities or level siberian forests. That dude is scary. Nothing suggests that The Gatekeeper is allowed to gently caress with ALL the laws of magic, except those related to time and the Outer Gates. I'd say Rashid probably has much greater influence within the Nevernever and that he's a master of the ways, time and space, but he couldn't beat Eb in a fireball duel. That said, it's a bit of a Batman vs Superman fight. In a real confrontation, the Gatekeeper would act like the Goddamn Batman who happens to have three quarters of Superman's powers. Also, he did not give Demonreach its limp, that was the glaciers at the end of the last ice age.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:25
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The Gatekeeper is to Ebenezar what Molly is to Harry, in terms of abilities and talents. One's not greater than the other, just occupying a completely different part of the spectrum. At least that's my take on it.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:27
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Yeah, Ebenezer is pretty much the king of brawny wizards. I think it's Blood Rites where he talks about some of the stuff he's done. Tunguska and Krakatoa were both his doing. Not to mention "lesser" things like dropping things out of orbit onto vampire enclaves or his actions at the end of Changes. He doesn't do subtle. When Eb wants to blow something up, it blows up. He's like Harry on steroids, but without the chip on his shoulder.
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Nov 4, 2013 19:14
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, Ebenezer is pretty much the king of brawny wizards. I think it's Blood Rites where he talks about some of the stuff he's done. So pretty much Harry after he's gotten a century under his belt and cooled his head a bit?
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Nov 4, 2013 19:38
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Wait, where does it say he's responsible for Krakatoa? I don't remember that at all. Also have we ever met Dresden's maternal grandmother? It'd be hilarious if it was Ancient Mai. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 19:40
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This is what Eb can cast as a single word spell: (Changes spoilers) The nearest figure was considerably shorter than me and stout, but he stood with his feet planted as if he intended to move the world. He lifted his staff, smote it on the ground, then boomed, “Remember Archangel!” He spoke a single, resonating word as he thrust the tip of the implement at the Red King and the Lords of Outer Night. The second floor of the stadium-temple where they stood . . . simply exploded. A force hit the ancient structure like an enormous bulldozer blade rushing forward at Mach 2. It smashed into the temple. Stone screamed. The Red King, the Lords of Outer Night, and several thousand tons of the temple’s structure went flying back through the air with enough violent energy to send a shock wave rebounding from the point of impact. The massive display of force brought a second of stunned silence to the field—and I was just as slack-jawed as anyone. This is miles in front of Harry's Forzare. That said, Eb is known to excel at force, magnetism and earth magic, unlike Harry.
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Nov 4, 2013 19:52
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I just started reading this series too about 2 weeks ago and I'm starting on Turn Coat, I can't believe it's this good for this long and in a genre I usually don't like at all. I think my favorite so far is Proven Guilty. This series is different compared to other books I've read where I actually like all the characters. I don't get any urges to skip and sections like I would in other books (looking at you malazan).
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Nov 4, 2013 20:29
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Wade Wilson posted:He's the one that gave Demonreach it's limp, so you know he's got the chops to seriously gently caress some poo poo up when it comes down to it. Actually, that was a glacier.
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Nov 4, 2013 20:30
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VanSandman posted:Wait, where does it say he's responsible for Krakatoa? I don't remember that at all. In Blood Rites, he reveals that he caused the Tunguska Explosion, the New Madrid Earthquake (central united states, not Spain), and Krakatoa. VanSandman posted:Also have we ever met Dresden's maternal grandmother? It'd be hilarious if it was Ancient Mai. This is a bad idea and you should feel bad for suggesting it. ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 20:39
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I am imagining an all growed up Leopold Stodge who has become a polka enthusiast. Same voice. Adds a little bit of awesome. About 2/3 of the way through Dead Beat now.
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Nov 4, 2013 20:53
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ConfusedUs posted:He doesn't do subtle. When Eb wants to blow something up, it blows up. He's like Harry on steroids, but without the chip on his shoulder. Which is why we need a flashback novel with Ebenezer and Injun Joe's wartime days now. Waltzing Along posted:I am imagining an all growed up Leopold Stodge who has become a polka enthusiast. Same voice. Adds a little bit of awesome. No no no, you're way off the mark. Butters is Patton Oswalt, nearly the entire fandom agrees on this.
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Nov 4, 2013 21:11
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404GoonNotFound posted:No no no, you're way off the mark. I had never heard that before, but that's perfect.
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Nov 4, 2013 21:21
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