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By Unicorn Bright's modus operandi is "just let the kid in the Gundam handle it, he's the protagonist". The dude knows he lives in a cartoon.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:10
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BlitzBlast posted:By Unicorn Bright's modus operandi is "just let the kid in the Gundam handle it, he's the protagonist". The dude knows he lives in a cartoon. By Unicorn?   Dude stopped giving fucks in ZZ and never looked back.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:19
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Monaghan posted:I realized that destiny was going the wrong way when early on when I cheered for Shinn loving up the earth alliance and orb fleet, when the show tries to convince you to feel sorry orb. Orb is Japan and Kira is the Messiah so you'd have to be evil to root against them! By the way, if y'all are curious what some other directors thought of SEED and its character motivations, check out Gun X Sword. It is a really cool mecha anime that basically includes "taking a poo poo on the ideals espoused by the protagonists of SEED" as one of its tenets. One of the main antagonists is almost directly a Kira Yamato stand-in piloting a Freedom stand-in. The protagonist, meanwhile, is a pissed off middle aged man who pilots a giant walking sword whose single goal in life is to commit bloody, violent revenge against the person who wronged him. It is 
Zorak fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 05:19
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Gammatron 64 posted:I also still really like Amuro, Kamille and Judau, even though they're huge assholes. In fact, I probably like them because of that. Well, Judau isn't an rear end in a top hat, but the other two definitely are.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:27
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Characterization in ZZ was straight up weird, especially when it came to death. Puru's death was straight up ignored, and if it weren't for Judau you could say the same about Leina's.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:30
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Zorak posted:Orb is Japan and Kira is the Messiah so you'd have to be evil to root against them! I actually just finished GunXSword and it was everything you described and more. I completely got the Kira vibes from the guy you talked about, and Van is probably one of my favorite characters ever. "Give me all your condiments". SethSeries fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 05:44
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Amuro is an rear end in a top hat but the difference is the show actually acknowledges it to a certain extent. Kira is a hosed up dude trying to impose childish logic on a complicated situation, which is an interesting idea for a protagonist, but the show doesn't even realize how hosed up Kira is and in fact even rewards him for it. Bad things happen to people around him, and Kira whines and rages and goes CAGILLE IS CRYING, but nothing bad ever happens, directly, to Kira.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:45
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Endorph posted:Kira whines and rages and goes CAGILLE IS CRYING, but nothing bad ever happens, directly, to Kira. Did you miss the part where he repeatedly failed to protect people after directly stating he would including the main villain literally murdering his kinda-girlfriend right in front of him? I mean Kira's a complete shithead and a terrible character but "nothing bad ever happens to Kira" is a bit much. It doesn't actually force him to change his viewpoint though, just underlines BAD GUY IS BAD. That is more of the problem with the plot. Bad guys do bad things but failure is never actually a drive changer for the protagonist, just an example of Bad Guys Being Bad and not something that could actually have been prevented. It's a very Comic Book Super Hero mentality ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 05:50
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Zorak posted:Orb is Japan and Kira is the Messiah so you'd have to be evil to root against them! Serious question: I've been meaning to watch Gun X Sword. Should I watch the SEED movies or something first, or is just general knowledge that it's like Wing but worse good enough?
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Nov 5, 2013 05:53
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ManSeriesBrofist posted:I actually just finished GunXSword and it was everything you described and more. I completely got the Kira vibes from the guy you talked about, and Van is probably one of my favorite characters ever. You're supposed to get Kira vibes from that character. His unit moves and poses in the exact same way as the Freedom and they even went and got the same voice actor for him. That character even has a really hosed up and unhealthy sexual relationship with the first girl who he has a crush on, complete with her seducing him so that he will continue fighting for her sake. Endorph posted:Amuro is an rear end in a top hat but the difference is the show actually acknowledges it to a certain extent. Kira is a hosed up dude trying to impose childish logic on a complicated situation, which is an interesting idea for a protagonist, but the show doesn't even realize how hosed up Kira is and in fact even rewards him for it. Bad things happen to people around him, and Kira whines and rages and goes CAGILLE IS CRYING, but nothing bad ever happens, directly, to Kira. Kira is a terrible character but plenty of horrible emotionally scarring things happen to him in SEED. He watches/accidentally participates in the destruction of his home colony. He watches a good friend of his die horribly via beam boomerang. He watches Rau murder Fllay while he's powerless to stop it. Kira basically spends the entirety of SEED trying and failing to protect the things he loves and cares about over and over. He would have failed at stopping the space laser if Athrun and Cagalli hadn't helped, too. Now, in SEED Destiny, the dude's untouchable.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:56
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Raku posted:Serious question: I've been meaning to watch Gun X Sword. Should I watch the SEED movies or something first, or is just general knowledge that it's like Wing but worse good enough? General knowledge of SEED and how the director treats its protagonists is probably enough. It's more how SEED does this "The ends justify the means when it comes to ending conflict, and so long as our protagonist (who is good) wants to do something, what he's doing is good and ultimately for the best of everyone" thing, as well as its messianic ubermensch approach to Kira and his ideals. Gun X Sword also features a Mexican GaoGaiGar piloted by a bunch of elderly drunken super robot pilots. They are amazing. Gun X Sword is perfectly great standalone though.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:57
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Kanos posted:Kira basically spends the entirety of SEED trying and failing to protect the things he loves and cares about over and over. This is a hilarious thing about SEED in retrospect. Kira, quite literally, never does anything meaningful on a personal level. He succeeds on group levels (helping the others stop missiles or whatever) but on a personal level every person he fails basically every time he tries something and most of the successes are more correctly attributed to the other characters in the show. Basically from the moment he gets the Freedom Gundam he doesn't do anything. Not a single meaningful victory or plot-contributing action until the moment he stabs Rau to death in what is effectively a meaningless victory because Athrun and Cagalli are off actually saving the day. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 05:59
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Raku posted:Serious question: I've been meaning to watch Gun X Sword. Should I watch the SEED movies or something first, or is just general knowledge that it's like Wing but worse good enough? Well you don't need to know anything about SEED to enjoy GunXSword. Comparisons to Gundam SEED already make what is a loving great anime even better. SEED honestly is nothing like Wing, and while SEED is a bad show, some of the characters are genuinely excellent and just get overshadowed by the idiot main character and his dumb j-pop princess girlfriend, who totally aren't self inserts for the husband and wife combo who directed and wrote it respectively. A lot of the huge issues mentioned here come from SEED Destiny which despite being popular in Japan was considered by a large portion of the fanbase to be the absolute worst entry in the franchise until Gundam AGE strolled on in. The VA of the "main" character of Destiny considers the characters portrayal in SRW Z to be the true version of the character. I'm not going to straight up recommend SEED, but it's something you'll have to form an opinion on yourself, but by no means should it keep you from watching GunXSword, which is like 15 bucks for the whole series on Amazon. Edit: Was GunXSword made just as a gently caress you to SEED? If so that's the first I heard of it.
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Nov 5, 2013 05:59
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Kanos posted:He watches a good friend of his die horribly via beam boomerang. The horrors of war.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:10
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ImpAtom posted:Did you miss the part where he repeatedly failed to protect people after directly stating he would including the main villain literally murdering his kinda-girlfriend right in front of him? I don't know, I guess my point is that Kira should have died, which is a position I'm sure we'll all agree with. Or at least lost an arm like Louise in Gundam 00.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:13
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Spelling Mitsake posted:The horrors of war. He actually dies via thrown shield, which is both more embarrassing and more gruesome.  Endorph posted:Those are things that happen to *other* people, though. Kira gets really sad about it but it's other people suffering and dying, not Kira, and the way even the narrative itself treats it like 'it's terrible because it made Kira cry like a beached whale for a few minutes' and not 'it's terrible because people loving died' is kinda hosed. By that logic not a lot happens to most Gundam protagonists. Shiro loses a leg, Seabook gets Cyborg Arm'd, Kamille gets brainwiped and Amuro (eventually) dies fighting Char but otherwise none of them actually have any long-term personal injury inflected upon them. The bulk of a Gundam protagonist's suffering is people they love or care for suffering and the impact it has on them. And for all of SEED's many many faults, the constant loving flashbacks to people dying make it hard to argue that these deaths didn't have actual long-term impact on people. Nicol's death was being flashed back to until the very end of Destiny by every other character in the show, complete with Athrun screaming about how he was 14 years old and played the piano and now he's dead. Frankly I'm surprised characters in Astray and Stargazer don't flash back to Nichol's death. It was apparently the single most important event in the history of mankind. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 06:14
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^^ I guess I thought he at least got incinerated in an effort to block out the oddly gruesome phase SEED went through. Then again, SEED also gave us the human-body-exploding superweapon.  ^^Spelling Mitsake posted:The horrors of war. The unseemly relish with which they kept replaying those animation cels of Nichol trying to hold back the beam saber that killed him got a little unsettling after a while.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:14
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Kanos posted:
I don't think the did it out of relish, but because fuduka was lazy and had to fill time, so having Nicol's death show up all the time was an easy way for people to think about past losses. I mean, in destiny you saw that scene with Cagalli's father standing in the flames being immolated like 30 times. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 06:19
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ImpAtom posted:By that logic not a lot happens to most Gundam protagonists. Shiro loses a leg, Seabook gets Cyborg Arm'd, Kamille gets brainwiped and Amuro (eventually) dies fighting Char but otherwise none of them actually have any long-term personal injury inflected upon them. The bulk of a Gundam protagonist's suffering is people they love or care for suffering and the impact it has on them. EDIT: Actually, it's been a long while, but I distinctly remember somebody who wasn't even there flashing back to Nichol's death. Am I crazy or did this actually happen?
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Nov 5, 2013 06:29
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Monaghan posted:I mean, in destiny you saw that scene with Cagalli's father standing in the flames being immolated like 30 times. Well with Destiny the scripts were submitted so late that the animators didn't even have time to draw. Likewise Seed blew most of its budget on pop songs. So stock animation ho!
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Nov 5, 2013 06:42
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Endorph posted:EDIT: Actually, it's been a long while, but I distinctly remember somebody who wasn't even there flashing back to Nichol's death. Am I crazy or did this actually happen? I am pretty sure Durandal flashes back to it at least once during one of his speeches/monologues. I know Athrun flashes back to characters he literally never even met dying.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:43
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Endorph posted:Thinking about it, that's a fair point. And admittedly I forgot that Nichol was 14 and played the piano and is dead. In destiny, Athrun flashed back to Natarle's death despite not having even met her.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:44
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Kanos posted:^^ I guess I thought he at least got incinerated in an effort to block out the oddly gruesome phase SEED went through. Then again, SEED also gave us the human-body-exploding superweapon. Which one?  Seriously, they had the Genisis beam, the microwave base destroyer thing. Okay, now I'm actually curious. SEED WMD's in order: Nuclear Missiles (Lots of them) Cyclops System (Mmm, squishy) EMP bombs (Dunno if this is a WMD but I'm including it since it kills a huge force of people) GENESIS (Gamma death ray) Neutron Stampeder (Blows up nukes, is badass. I count it anyways) Neibelung (Anti air doom gun) Requiem (Multi-directional giant particle death beam) Neo-GENESIS (There is a third one in the manga) And that's before accounting for nuclear equipped mobile suits. If you hand wave away intersteller travel I maintain SEED could give any sci-fi show a run for its money. Can you imagine what would have happened if the 00 movie aliens appeared in SEED? They'd have three months to build newer and more exotic superweapons before the Aliens even showed up for a fight.  - My friends. We must design a new, OMNI-GENESIS... for the dialogues to come.I'd watch it.
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Nov 5, 2013 07:43
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Cyclops system is the one. Missiles and colony lasers are one thing, but that thing was pretty yikes.
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Nov 5, 2013 08:39
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The Cyclops System wasn't even a superweapon. It was some sort of heating system they overloaded. I have no idea how the gently caress you sleep at night when your heating system overloading does that.
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Nov 5, 2013 08:42
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Does anyone still have the link to Kira's crying, English or Japanese? I've been unable to find it, and I could have sworn there was a go-to Youtube video for it. I dunno, I never thought Judau was a dick. I thought he was the closest you ever got to a child soldier that tried to keep their composure during the war. He talked smack, was generally flippant when possible, but things started to crack after Leina disappeared. Until Leina's return, I really thought there would be an episode dedicated to Judau having a Kamille-esque anger episode in the middle of battle.
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Nov 5, 2013 08:56
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Shinjobi posted:Does anyone still have the link to Kira's crying, English or Japanese? I've been unable to find it, and I could have sworn there was a go-to Youtube video for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AevLXJ-_mOg&t=424s The funniest loving sound ever made by a human being (7 minutes into the video if the direct link doesn't work.)
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Nov 5, 2013 09:04
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ImpAtom posted:The funniest loving sound ever made by a human being You have GOT to be making GBS threads me. Y'know, guys, I'm starting to think that SEED may not be a very good series.
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Nov 5, 2013 10:01
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Bimmi posted:You have GOT to be making GBS threads me. To be fair, that's all on Soichiro Hoshi just being a pretty poo poo voice actor. He's never been very good although he can read off technobabble like a motherfucker. Still, that noise is glorious. Just glorious. It is like the perfect summation of Gundam SEED.
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Nov 5, 2013 10:33
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Guyver posted:Judau not an rear end in a top hat? This is the guy who decided to choke out that one female crew member when she had the gal to offer her sympathy to the loss of his sister. Amuro and Kamille were half crazy but Judau was just a dick. Woah, I didn't remember that. It's been a couple years since I saw ZZ. And I dunno if I wanna go through it again. All the talk about Kira makes me think about what makes Amuro an interesting character - he's a straight up anti-hero (as is Kamillie). Amuro is no perfect meshiah, he's a deeply flawed human being and the show acknowledges it. There's many occasions where Amuro is selfish, cowardly or just plain an antisocial dick. Amuro doesn't singlehandedly win wars. He has zero political influence. He's just a kid who happened to be really good at piloting Gundams. SEED on the other hand sounds like a 12 year old's fan fiction.
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Nov 5, 2013 12:18
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Gammatron 64 posted:Woah, I didn't remember that. It's been a couple years since I saw ZZ. And I dunno if I wanna go through it again. The Origin's been my first foray into the older Gundam series (my first was SEED), but I really like how the RX-78-2 isn't portrayed as some unstoppable super-machine. It's just a prototype of a better model.
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Nov 5, 2013 12:38
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The Origin's been my first foray into the older Gundam series (my first was SEED), but I really like how the RX-78-2 isn't portrayed as some unstoppable super-machine. It's just a prototype of a better model. Yeah. Amuro is not some invincible pilot in an invincible machine like the guys in Gundam Wing or SEED. He's extremely good, and has one of the best mobile suits made during the One Year War, but throughout the series there is an actual risk that he's going to get killed and he is scared shitless half the time. At one point, he very unheroically refuses to go out and fight because he's afraid that he's gonna get killed, leading to the famous Bright slap. At the end, the Gundam gets blown the gently caress up, and in the novels Amuro gets killed by some random dude in a Dom. I really, really like the Origin. While it is extremely faithful to the show, it does make some subtle changes, and those changes all make sense and are improvements. For instance, the Federation had Mobile Suits already, and the Guntank and Guncannon are older models. Amuro doesn't just hop into the Gundam and learn to pilot it while looking at the instruction manual in the middle of a battle, he had hacked into his dad's files and found out about the Gundam earlier. It shows what happened to Char after Garma's death and how Kcyllia re-enlisted him. And while only 3 volumes are out in the US right now, later volumes spend a lot of time going into Char and Sayla's backstory and the history of Zeon Zum Daikun and the leadup to the war. And I've gushed about the artwork before, I'll do it again. The art is gorgeous, the mecha redesigns are great, and the character designs in it are the total opposite of SEED's - everybody has their own unique look, and their faces are very expressive. This is not like SEED where everyone looks the same, has amazing spiky hair, and faces that look like realdolls that have dead eyes and can't make expressions. I always liked the character designs in the orignal Gundam and they are basically the same, it's just that now they're actually drawn well instead of being animated by a drunken monkey. For the first time ever, the original Mobile Suit Gundam looks... good. I already had a lot of nostalgia for the original MSG (I first saw the movie trilogy on VHS around the year 2000 when I was 13 or so and roughly the right age for it and the series on Toonami not long after) and The Origin takes it and makes it better.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:the mecha redesigns are great I sometimes wonder if I am the only person who absolutely loathes Origin's mecha, but as far as I''m concerned every one of them is a step backward from the original and I'm holding on to some faint hope that they won't get animated looking like they currently do.
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Nov 5, 2013 15:41
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It's okay Bimmi, we understand that you hate everything.
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Nov 5, 2013 16:40
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That's okay, I realize that some people seem to have an intense blind spot where it comes to all the stuff that I do like. Just a couple of pages ago I was saying nice things about Turn A, the original MSG and Godzilla, but nope that don't mean poo poo guess I just hate everything. Thanks for the constructive comment. Bimmi fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 16:45
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Bimmi posted:I sometimes wonder if I am the only person who absolutely loathes Origin's mecha, but as far as I''m concerned every one of them is a step backward from the original and I'm holding on to some faint hope that they won't get animated looking like they currently do. How are they a step backward?  VS.  Granted, they still don't look terribly modern to me but... they really kind of have an 80's/90's mecha vibe that I like. They look a lot more stylistically consistent with designs from 0080, 0083 and the 08th MS Team... even though some of the historical details of the manga itself contradict those shows. They do subtle redesigns of the MS from MSG all the time anyway, because with their cartoony proportions and lack of surface detail, they would look extremely out of place when placed next to other UC designs if they re-used their original animation models and proportions for everything. The Guntank and Guncannon are the most heavily redesigned, and I like how they look a lot. The only one that looks off to me is the Zaku II, and while that's the 2nd most iconic mecha in the franchise, the rest look fine. The Z'Gok and GMs look like they came straight out of 0080. I dig that late 80's look.
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Nov 5, 2013 17:24
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Bimmi posted:Thanks for the constructive comment. You should look up more, because that joke right went over your head. Though then again, now that I think about it like 75% of your posts in ADTRW lately have been "this sucks" so huh. Gammatron 64 posted:They do subtle redesigns of the MS from MSG all the time anyway, because with their cartoony proportions and lack of surface detail, they would look extremely out of place when placed next to other UC designs if they re-used their original animation models and proportions for everything. You can't convince me the Gundam had an original animation model. God drat thing could shapeshift at will. EDIT: V Wow dude, you are taking this way too seriously. But if you insist, the joke: Someone says he dislikes something that is generally liked > exaggerate it into him hating everything for comedic effect. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 17:42
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BlitzBlast posted:You should look up more, because that joke right went over your head. Yep, that "joke" sure "did." Not sure what you were shooting for there, exactly. quote:Though then again, now that I think about it like 75% of your posts in ADTRW lately have been "this sucks" so huh. Most of the discussion lately has centered around AGE, SEED and Build Fighters, and I even found some positive things to say about the latter. But if it gets to the point where things get personal instead of addressing the subject at hand I'll say loving nothing, how's that? edit: BlitzBlast posted:Wow dude, you are taking this way too seriously. The fact that I just got through what might have been the single worst week of my whole life may have something to do with that. Anyway, apologies to the thread for this dumb derail, I'll just excuse myself and my opinions for a while until the rage is back down to manageable levels. Bimmi fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 17:54
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Was it ever explained why the Archangel suddenly had a hot spring in it in Destiny? Or even, how that could possibly work when the ship was, y'know, in space? E: And while I'm on the subject, was the fact that half of ZAFT's pilots were ~15 actually remarked on (besides Natarle's bit about child soldiers in the first episode) to the effect of "oh coordinators mature faster" or was it just ignored? Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 22:26
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Was it ever explained why the Archangel suddenly had a hot spring in it in Destiny? Or even, how that could possibly work when the ship was, y'know, in space? They added it in-between seasons. One of the pilots jokes about it when they're heading off to Scandinavia. It is entirely stupid.
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Nov 5, 2013 22:42
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