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It's also dumb thematically. If all you gotta do is let the fucker die, the setting has a very good chance to end on an upnote.
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Nov 5, 2013 21:13
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Didn't the Inquisitor rulebook allude to the Throne being a temporary solution that a faction of Inquisitors decided to make permanent because of reasons?
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Nov 5, 2013 22:01
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If the emperor dies, he may just reincarnate as well. He is a perpetual, or is that just John G and people talking?
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Nov 5, 2013 23:18
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I think that establishing that He is actually a perpetual is one of the better moves GW could make - it really reinforces the grimdark fuckedness of the setting. The end times are here, mankind is dying out, all they've got to do it pull the drat plug, but eery single one of them will die before allowing that to happen.
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Nov 5, 2013 23:27
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Isn't the main reason not to pull the plug is that the throne is also keeping a massive warp rift from opening on Terra?
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Nov 6, 2013 00:34
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JerryLee posted:I like this hypothetical because not only does it dovetail with the established corpse-god outcome, it gently walks back the idea of Emperor as utter deus ex machina. Yes, he technically can channel enough power to obliterate even one of his sons hopped up on the powers of chaos, but he'll have to permanently(?) gently caress himself up in the process. He knew this all along and that's why he didn't want to do it unless he absolutely had to.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:55
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Besides the Emperor (who was probably too busy to dictate the events to a scribe-servitor) was there actually anyone who witnessed the events with Horus and lived to tell about it?
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Nov 6, 2013 01:25
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Mr Teatime posted:The reason I think it was bad, properly bad and not just below average, was that they are ruining the portrayal of Kurze that ADB set up in his night lords novels and lord of the night. In ADB's novels you get a series of entirely different perspectives on Kurze from the point of view of characters who view him in entirely different ways. ADB's Kurze is pretty mustache twirling as well. Remember that he built his palace by having people paralyzed, then sealed in concrete while still alive and conscious so that psychic echo of their mental screams would form a "symphony" for him. Dude was straight up batshit, but he was batshit like the Joker - he rigidly adhears to a hosed up ideology of casual violence and terror in response to minor infractions, and making people destroy themselves falling to it and proving him right is the sweetest thing.
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Nov 6, 2013 01:37
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Didn't the Inquisitor rulebook allude to the Throne being a temporary solution that a faction of Inquisitors decided to make permanent because of reasons? It's because without the throne he may live, or he may die and be reincarnated in some fashion (possibly kicking off a huge schism over just where or how he's reborn, in addition to leaving no astronomicon plus a massive warp rift in the middle of earth in the meantime), or he may just straight die. The utterly catastrophic potential outcomes for the last two are the reason nobody ever dares remove him from the golden throne. This actually fits perfectly into the themes of the setting - the deteriorating status quo is considered the only real option because the consequences of failure are so enormous and utterly unbearable. Hope is a luxury for situations with smaller stakes.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:16
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Waroduce posted:If the emperor dies, he may just reincarnate as well. He is a perpetual, or is that just John G and people talking? Perpetual is a very vague term that has meant several different things between different individuals and books.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:19
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JerryLee posted:I like this hypothetical because not only does it dovetail with the established corpse-god outcome, it gently walks back the idea of Emperor as utter deus ex machina. Yes, he technically can channel enough power to obliterate even one of his sons hopped up on the powers of chaos, but he'll have to permanently(?) gently caress himself up in the process. He knew this all along and that's why he didn't want to do it unless he absolutely had to.
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Nov 6, 2013 07:25
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:Isn't the main reason not to pull the plug is that the throne is also keeping a massive warp rift from opening on Terra? That's one of the many problems. Assuming you can convince the powers on Terra that they should risk everything that keeps them alive and in power to pull the plug AND somehow get round the multiple Custode godlike killing machines that are sworn to protect the Big E's corpse for eternity, you have other problems. When you unplug the chair, all hell literally breaks loose. Physically he's a dried out husk, but for 10,000 years his psychic form has been kicking 4 chaos gods in the rear end and telling them to get off our lawn. By now there's an army of daemons behind that door scrambling over eachother to get in. When the chair goes down, the door opens and Terra becomes the centre of a new Eye of Terror (eye of Terra?). Maybe the Grey Knights can make a heroic stand, but Magnus ain't got poo poo on what's pouring through that gap after 10,000 years. Maybe the Emperor can reincarnate or ascend, but in the time it takes for him to get his bearings and drink his morning coffee, the center of his empire is now raining blood, growing extra eyes and getting rapey. Now where the hell did my sons go? Also, the chair was focusing the astronomicon, so all of a sudden nobody can navigate anywhere. The galaxy just went dark (apart from a few billion psykers going batshit insane because of the massive rift that just raped them in the face, half of whom are now hosting daemons). We're now back to the age of strife where planets are cut off from eachother by pantshittingly vast distances. In the middle of an ork invasion? Sorry, nobody is coming. They can't find you. Maybe you can shovel in a few thousand more psykers, but they're too busy getting Event Horizoned. Communications are hosed. Your astropaths either exploded in the backwash, grew tentacles and massacred your people or went utterly insane because the anchor that kept them safe while touching the warp got an error 501. Besides, all lines are busy with "HELP! SLAANESH!! DONGS EVERYWHERE!" and such. I don't know the up to date fluff, but I seem to remember the Tyranids were afraid of the Big E's light. Now the light went off, so a few billion chittering killing machines heard the dinner bell. Also, you think the big 4 aren't going to let Abaddon know that things just got ripe for a good crusade? Yup, full on attack with no way for the Imperium to muster forces. Maybe Russ comes screaming back riding a giant Wolf, Khan crashed through reality on his bike, Roboute wakes the gently caress up and glues his throat shut and the Lion gets over himself - but they're only going to make the end a little more metal fighting with their own brothers before we completely and utterly die out. Then again, maybe the thone just gives a "Emporer has stopped responding" message, they press the button and POOF, Big E standing at console saying "About loving time! Seriously, what the gently caress is wrong with you people?"
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Nov 6, 2013 11:15
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What was the deal with the "cracks have appears in the throne" piece of fluff? Was it just mentioned somewhere so we'd all give a collective Ooooooh, or was there a reason for it?
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Nov 6, 2013 11:24
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I think even in the current rulebook, the fluff states the throne is damaged beyond repair and starting to fail. Just more "dancing around the rim" endgame hype that'll never amount to nothing.
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Nov 6, 2013 13:28
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Dog_Meat posted:That's one of the many problems. Or maybe the Golden Throne is the only thing keeping the Emperor from ascending, in a similar vein as Slaanesh and if it fails, he just sucks the life out of the Astronomican and powers his ascension?
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Nov 6, 2013 13:41
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Cream_Filling posted:This actually fits perfectly into the themes of the setting - the deteriorating status quo is considered the only real option because the consequences of failure are so enormous and utterly unbearable. Hope is a luxury for situations with smaller stakes.
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Nov 6, 2013 14:31
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Dog_Meat posted:
Negatron, current fluff is that the astronomican is what's attracting the Tyranids.
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Nov 6, 2013 14:36
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The Rat posted:Negatron, current fluff is that the astronomican is what's attracting the Tyranids. Ah, it's changed since my day. I remember a line about "they fear nothing but the emperor for they have tasted his mind from afar". I actually like the newer idea of the beacon being what attracted them. It goes with the swarm theme and adds another layer on the poo poo sandwich that is life in the end times. Cardiac posted:Or maybe the Golden Throne is the only thing keeping the Emperor from ascending, in a similar vein as Slaanesh and if it fails, he just sucks the life out of the Astronomican and powers his ascension? Yeah, there was the short story with the inquisitors debating what they should do with him. They ended up keeping him as a symbol to rally around, but a faction were saying that the chair was tying him down. Of course, they got wiped out to avoid another split in the empire. Although I think that bit of fluff dates back before the "Magnus broke the dam" angle, so who knows? Also, what's to say the Emporer doesn't ascend to godhood and then give even less of a poo poo about our world than the Daemon Prince Primarchs do? The books have done a good job of painting the Big E as someone who truly wants to guide man, but how much of Chaos' version of events actually true? Was it just an incredibly long con to ascend and he got caught on the throne right at the end in a cruel cosmic joke? You'd think that one of the remaining primarchs would have dedicated themselves to looking into fixing things. Then again, they're busy trying to put the Imperium back together in the aftermath of the heresy. Dorn was off chasing Perturabo, Roboute was after Alpharius, Corax was undoing the damage he'd done, etc. Is there anything concrete on the Emperor giving orders and such in the years immediately after he got cabbaged? Or was he interred and then power handed over to the high lords shortly afterwards? Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 14:58
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Yes, Malcador gave him a little extra energy so that he could issue some final orders before being interred. I don't know what those orders were.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:03
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Baron Bifford posted:Yes, Malcador gave him a little extra energy so that he could issue some final orders before being interred. I don't know what those orders were. "I should be done in 2 months. Come and unplug me later. Don't let my pizza go cold"
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Nov 6, 2013 16:09
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Baron Bifford posted:This chimes in with my question a few pages back that everybody hated (remember what fun we had?). I guess it's possible for a psyker to burn off part of himself and never recover. Your question was stupid because this isn't real life. It's fiction. The elements of the setting were determined first and then in-universe justifications come afterwards. The massive theocracy based on worship of a god emperor that demands the sacrifice of thousands of souls is a basic element of the setting. You trying to come up with "solutions" to this is extremely stupid, and does not in fact make you look smart, as you seem to think it does.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:02
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The Rat posted:Negatron, current fluff is that the astronomican is what's attracting the Tyranids. Though it would be funny if it's literally like a moth to a flame, where they're both attracted and repulsed by it simply because it's confusing, since normally they rely on their own psychic signals to navigate.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:12
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Are the Nagash the Necromancer series of books from the Warhammer universe any good?
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Nov 6, 2013 17:29
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What was the novel where a Golden Age of Technology computer is found on a Space Hulk and proceeds to insult everyone attempting to use it?
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Nov 7, 2013 04:18
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VanSandman posted:What was the novel where a Golden Age of Technology computer is found on a Space Hulk and proceeds to insult everyone attempting to use it? I think it was The Death of Integrity by Guy Haley.
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Nov 7, 2013 08:10
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Kegslayer posted:I think it was The Death of Integrity by Guy Haley. Yep, The Death of Integrity. Not really a read to bother seeking out, but the chapter with the AI is great.
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Nov 7, 2013 09:31
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The AI bit was posted earlier.
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Nov 7, 2013 10:24
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I just saw a 40K novel in my bookstore, The Inquisition War. I've never heard of it, so I have my doubts about buying it. Has anyone read it? is it any good?
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Nov 8, 2013 15:14
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radlum posted:I just saw a 40K novel in my bookstore, The Inquisition War. I've never heard of it, so I have my doubts about buying it. Has anyone read it? is it any good? It's one of the oldest 40k books, and one of the more weird ones. I liked it, but then again I like most of the books involving the inquisition. Fair warning though, a lot of it has probably been retconned, I think it even has a squat in it. If you like books involving the inquisition, or the more odd parts of the grimdark universe, then go for it. If that is not your thing, it might be a pass.
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Nov 8, 2013 15:16
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radlum posted:I just saw a 40K novel in my bookstore, The Inquisition War. I've never heard of it, so I have my doubts about buying it. Has anyone read it? is it any good? Deofuta posted:It's one of the oldest 40k books, and one of the more weird ones. I liked it, but then again I like most of the books involving the inquisition. Fair warning though, a lot of it has probably been retconned, I think it even has a squat in it. The reprint version removes the Squat and replaces him with a Tech-Marine (or something else non-Squat) I think.
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Nov 8, 2013 16:03
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I actually just finished the first Inquisition War ebook, and it has a preface from an Imperial authority commenting on the dubiousness of certain parts of this account, such as that an Inquisitor would tolerate the presence of an abhuman (squat), and it's suspected the squat himself might have been the author of these accounts. I did really like the different approach it takes on account of being such an early 40k novel. Rather than having an entire book line dedicated to it, there was only one or two books introducing the 40k setting at the time, so instead of being subtle and conservative with the plot elements, the characters visit a genestealer-infested imperial world, a Slaaneshi daemon world in the Eye of Terror, and the goddamn Golden Throneroom itself in just the first book. I really enjoyed it, if only for its unique perspectives and willingness to dive right into the major, core elements of the setting without hesitation. One Legged Cat fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 17:27
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Just finished know no fear, and i thought it was a nice piece of bolter porn, but it felt really short, and well full of odd plot holes, and weird references. Can anyone explain: So they are trying to kill Calths sun, and they succeed. Except what about all the Word Bearers forces on the ground? How are they supposed to escape? Considering the Ultramarines don't even have enough time to evac anyone on the ground out, before the sun dies. So what about the Titans, the Super Heavy Tanks, all the Word Bearers on the ground? Is Ollius supposed to be that Imperial Guard Hero, that protected the emperor?
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Nov 8, 2013 19:30
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UberJumper posted:Just finished know no fear, and i thought it was a nice piece of bolter porn, but it felt really short, and well full of odd plot holes, and weird references. UberJumper posted:So what about the Titans, the Super Heavy Tanks, all the Word Bearers on the ground? UberJumper posted:Is Ollius supposed to be that Imperial Guard Hero, that protected the emperor? And Know No Fear was not "bolter porn," sir! It was a fine story by the esteemed Lord Abnett and actually made the Ultramarines interesting!
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Nov 8, 2013 19:41
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UberJumper posted:Just finished know no fear, and i thought it was a nice piece of bolter porn, but it felt really short, and well full of odd plot holes, and weird references. What plot holes?
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Nov 8, 2013 19:53
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UberJumper posted:Just finished know no fear, and i thought it was a nice piece of bolter porn, but it felt really short, and well full of odd plot holes, and weird references. They were written off as a necessary sacrifice to cripple the Ultramarines. This isn't really a plothole; it is standard operating procedure for Chaos.
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Nov 8, 2013 21:03
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With regards to Know No Fear. The WB also hosed up, IIRC Lorgar and Horus (I think) later chastise Erebus and Kor Pharon for arsing it up. Especially for not killing Gulliman.
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Nov 8, 2013 21:18
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More about the Word Bearers: It's actually expanded upon a little more in Betrayer. Rather than doing an internal purge like the other legions did, Lorgar loaded up all of his angriest dudes and sent them off to die against the Ultramarines. Many of them never forgave the Ultramarines for destroying Monarchia.
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Nov 8, 2013 21:36
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ed balls balls man posted:With regards to Know No Fear. Mainly that last thing. If they had done that, the warp storm would probably have been much larger. Also after re-reading betrayer, I realized I misinterpreted something: Angron's sense of self is not subsumed in his transformation. Lorgar really was trying to save Angron - he just knew Angron would never accept that method on his own. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 22:04
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Lorgar wanted a monster to fight against Sanguinius.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:08
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Nephilm posted:Lorgar wanted a monster to fight against Sanguinius. Not quite. They already had that. Odd as it is, Lorgar actually feels kinship and cares for most of his brothers, Angron included. He even tells off Horus for suggesting the same idea. He is easily the most human of the primarchs from what has been published so far (mostly due to his insecurities and his need to be recognized, but also because he never wanted to be just a general or a conqueror). Even a year into the Heresy, he still feels somewhat bad for Ferrus Manus, Vulkan's fate, and for not being able to explain to Guilliman that he was justified in his rebellion.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:02
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