|
BryanChavez posted:Oh god, gently caress you for even making me think of that. I would legitimately kill another human being to see the Great Game in Exalted. And also to see Jenna Moran writing for the line. Did the Great Game rules actually work? I tried it once and it seemed too heavy.
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 07:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
See, I've heard that before, but I've never had a problem with the Great Game. It's always gone really well when I've used it, though it could certainly stand to be explained a lot better than it was. It has a lot of benefits over the Creation-Ruling Mandate, because it's not a minigame about controlling a state (i.e., the game is now about the state, not your characters), but about affecting change in general. If you want to root out the corruption within a city, you can make that your Agenda, gather up your Force, Influence, and Will tokens, and begin to spread your forces, political influence, and ideology through the city to make that a reality. No matter how big the conflicts get, at the core are agendas held by people and groups. And once you hold control over an area, you can start pushing your agenda so that the region begins to change to suit it. When I talk about the idea of incorporating the Great Game into Exalted, that's more or less all I mean - how that's implemented can be any of a dozen different ways, I imagine. It just needs to be a system that allows for concrete representation of the characters pushing an agenda and changing their chosen 'battlefield' to match their desires. In a game of kingdoms, empires, and demigods, it's a great way to mechanically represent the people who can alter those societies, while still being presented as character-first, not the game suddenly becoming a weird version of Civilization.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 08:53
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Once it's actually possible to buy Chuubo I'm going to have to start considering whether it's in good taste to sell it via "Would you like to see Jenna writing for other games again? Buy this book!" That'd be slightly false advertising, as I'm pretty sure that the more of Jenna's independent work we buy, the more independent work she will do. I mean, the plus is that we get more independent Jenna Moran work, but I don't think she'll be back to Exalted unless you kidnap one of her family members (please don't do that). She has her own thing going on now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 12:58
|
|
|
Adopting a third person perspective in something like "nation building" I think is one of those things that they are shying away from for thematic reasons. Activating your Five Year Plan Prana to collectivize agriculture should definitely not result in moving the play focus from the character; that's antithetical both to Exalted's heroic fiction roots as well as it's deconstructionist aspirations. If your character wants to collectivize agriculture she should be appointing ministers and generals, writing manifestos, showing it all off to visiting dignitaries, etc. Not playing a nested Civilization: Creation mini game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 15:55
|
|
|
I'm reminded of a Solar in a games I was in that had sufficient social charms that he could basically walk out on his balcony, give a speech, and everybody would be brain-blasted within miles to follow his ends. Then there's the charm that gives immense, mind-mangling successes to people on a public works projects. Basically, he didn't need to do anything, or even have any particular competence, he could practically conquer the region without having to get out of bed. It was an example of how the setting could be broken down entirely by focusing on just social charms and a few basic dodge charms. It was boring and hopefully leadership charms will be slightly more strenuous and hands-on than having your servants wheel you out to the balcony this time around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 16:16
|
|
|
Whatever they do, hopefully leadership in general has concrete rules that allow you to actually enjoy them, this time around. Even without charms at all. Changing political landscapes, transforming hearts and minds, and conquering city-states should have as many fun options and 'things to hang charms off of' as they keep saying personal combat has. The weakening of Exalted charms across the board that they've spoken about, to actually allow for a much wider scope of things being challenging, would be wonderful as well. We'll see how well that works out. I don't need the Great Game, I just need something, and it needs to be fun. Just, Exalted in general. It needs to be fun.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 17:12
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:If your character wants to collectivize agriculture she should be appointing ministers and generals, writing manifestos, showing it all off to visiting dignitaries, etc. Not playing a nested Civilization: Creation mini game. But without actual mechanics, we're back to the same problem we had in 2e: inconsistency. If the only handle there is to move nations is "just roleplay some stuff", it cannot be balanced against the other mechanics in the game, and is wholly up to a particular group's interpretation. This is a Bad Thing, for obvious reasons. Just because there's mechanics doesn't mean that it has to move things to being a 4x game - combat has mechanics to frame and guide what's going on, without it just being, "I hit him."
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:21
|
|
|
Kenlon posted:But without actual mechanics, we're back to the same problem we had in 2e: inconsistency. If the only handle there is to move nations is "just roleplay some stuff", it cannot be balanced against the other mechanics in the game, and is wholly up to a particular group's interpretation. This is a Bad Thing, for obvious reasons. Just because there's mechanics doesn't mean that it has to move things to being a 4x game - combat has mechanics to frame and guide what's going on, without it just being, "I hit him." I honestly asked for a Bureaucracy spoiler during the Kickstarter. Hatewheel's answers to questions about how they planned to handle things like ruling nations and large-scope social actions sounded a lot like "just handwave stuff" to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:34
|
|
|
Calde posted:I honestly asked for a Bureaucracy spoiler during the Kickstarter. Hatewheel's answers to questions about how they planned to handle things like ruling nations and large-scope social actions sounded a lot like "just handwave stuff" to me. Yep - we had that out earlier in the thread. Most of it felt like "The CRM wasn't perfect, so we won't do anything like it at all," which is unfortunate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
As I recall, the claim was that there is going to be some sort of system for Bureaucracy to interact with, but mostly it was talking about what it wouldn't do, or mentioning charms as reference points instead of what people could do without charms. Also that if you wanted to use Craft or the like to improve your kingdom's infrastructure there wouldn't be actual rules for that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:48
|
|
|
I hope this means they're cutting mass combat, too. Having your army incorporate into a mob *seems* like a good idea to facilitate common play, but in retrospect, it's clearly too abstract.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
Last I heard they still blobbed up but they were their own blob instead of becoming basically equipment for you, the commander.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 19:04
|
|
|
Zereth posted:As I recall, the claim was that there is going to be some sort of system for Bureaucracy to interact with, but mostly it was talking about what it wouldn't do, or mentioning charms as reference points instead of what people could do without charms. This has always been one of the mechanical failings of Exalted. Here's my issue. At the outset the game posits that Craft and say, Melee, have equal mechanical weight. Certainly you can pour as much XP into Craft as you can into Melee. But the end results aren't measurable. Melee guy can now kill foes he could not kill before, even with a modest investment. Craft guy can now make swords in half the time with almost no tools, which is neat, but the distinction between 6 hours and 3 isn't impactful in most games. I'm fine with games having a loose resolution system; I don't need a complex nation-building system to represent the massive infrastructure projects my character is now capable of. It's just the Melee-guy's impact is dictated by the rules, whereas Craft-guy's impact is dictated by the ST. And sometimes it isn't clear or fair how the ST is supposed to make your Crafting more useful from one charm purchase to the next. I would want, at least, a very small nation system just to set up a frame story for other adventures. I want to feel like investing in Craft or Bureaucracy has measurable, incremental advantages. Or who the hell knows, maybe they'll improve those Charm trees such so that you don't need to do nation-building to showcase them but I doubt it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 19:54
|
|
|
I don't actually won't Jenna writing for Exalted again. Everything I've read of hers from Exalted has been some of the denser, harder to parse, stuff in the game. I don't think that actually adds to the game in anyway. Like, I'm not saying Exalted has to be made for four year olds, or anything, it's fine for it to be complex and ask questions and deconstruct things. I like that. I don't like the idea of a 'If you aren't this smart, you can't play Exalted because you just won't get it, pleb' kind of thing. In the same way that I dislike the idea of making books where rather then answering anything they just ask question after question. If I buy a book about Nexus, for example, when I read about the Emissary I don't want to get there and have it be 'well the Emissary is dark and mysterious and who knows what they are or what they're planning.' It doesn't have to be 'The Emissary is this.', but 'Maybe the Emissary is this, or this, here's a few ideas of what they could be' is better to me. I'm not saying Jenna does it on purpose, but for people who idolize her work, they seem to *think* she does it like that, and then attempt to do that again and it just ends up being a massive headache. A game should be fun even when tackling complicated subjects or situations. It shouldn't feel like I'm doing research for a thesis.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
I don't share whatever it is that makes people find Jenna Moran's work dense, or difficult to read. I can agree that she's occasionally esoteric or obtuse, but she also gave us the utterly fantastic Demons chapter of Games of Divinity, which is perfectly written. If she was able to give us a single other chapter of that quality for Ex3, the entire new edition would be justified. Of course she, along with every other writer, needs an editor that's worth a drat. White Wolf has never had one of those for the entirety of its lifespan, as far as I've seen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 20:21
|
|
|
Not only is Jenna Moran's stuff not deliberately obtuse and pretentious, but people who idolize Jenna Moran's work generally compliment it for being clear and straightforward rather than abstract and confusing. Jenna Moran did have some kind of hand in 2E's core mechanics, though, so the extreme, right-to-the-point efficiency she brings to the rules she writes might be counterproductive for the purposes of a crunchy combat system.Mendrian posted:This has always been one of the mechanical failings of Exalted. The way I see it, either Melee and Crafts both need to work in an abstract slider-fiddling mapgame sort of way, or both Melee and Crafts need to work in a direct, cinematic, makes-a-measurable-difference-to-the-scene-right-now sort of way. Ex3's clearly focusing on the latter, which I think is a good idea, but that means that we need Crafts charms (and Bureaucracy charms and etc) that you can directly deploy for visible, environment-sculpting effect in the same way that we've got Melee charms than do that. It sounds like the writing team is actually trying to do that, though, so... good? Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Nov 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
The easiest solution to for example Crafts v Melee, is having an early charm in Crafts that says you can swap your Crafts rating for Melee when attacking (or Thrown, or Archery, each) because you're used to handling those items so much on account of being a divinely empowered craftsperson. And naturally, an early Melee/Thrown/Archery charm would let you sub that rating for Crafts right back, because you know how the killing tools work, if you are so inclined. The other solution to giving everyone combat parity regardless of their skill specializations would be some sort of...base..attack...bonus, but that's just crazy talk.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 20:41
|
|
|
The thing I want from non-combat skills is mechanical consequences. If a character gets into a fight, that's probably got mechanical consequences for the character. If a character decides to stick her hand into liquid magma, there's a mechanic or two for that, and importantly there are specific magical ways to avoid or reduce those liquid magma consequences. But what about when a character must make a decision about something which won't affect her combat stats directly, but will affect the army / organization / nation she leads? What will be the effect of making a deal with that Raksha? Rogue Trader did this tolerably well, in a very abstract kind of way, with stuff like ship morale and crew damage, and stuff like surprise exposure to hard vacuum could reduce your total crew (via death). The wheels seemed to come off when you had multiple ships under your command, but for one ship it worked pretty well. I'd like it if Exalted 3e could handle the party being in charge of one organization up to about the size of a city-state at publication, and then some future supplement(s) would present a variety of different ways to approach bigger organizations & multiple interacting organizations, up to a Direction-spanning empire, or an entire bureau of the Celestial Bureaucracy. ----- Regarding Crafts, I'd like to see infrastructure matter. For a mobile party, that means going different places specifically to take advantage of their geomantic properties or ancient tech or whatever. For stationary games, that means hooking into the organization mechanics above, so you might fight a war to expand your iron mines so you could get a bonus on Craft checks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 21:39
|
|
|
I'd love to see Jenna Moran concept and write but as far as rules design goes, her Exalted work tends to be a hot mess. Fair Folk was, frankly, an unfinished book, though I'm not sure if that's her or White Wolf that put it out that way. And astrology was just a mess, both overtly complex and game-breaking in the hands of a modestly creative player. The concepts behind both are pretty cool, but the actual rules implementation when she's involved seems to be a real headache.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 21:43
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:I'd love to see Jenna Moran concept and write but as far as rules design goes, her Exalted work tends to be a hot mess. Fair Folk was, frankly, an unfinished book, though I'm not sure if that's her or White Wolf that put it out that way. And astrology was just a mess, both overtly complex and game-breaking in the hands of a modestly creative player. The concepts behind both are pretty cool, but the actual rules implementation when she's involved seems to be a real headache. From what I remember, Astrology was Grabowski, though- Moran just did the Charms in Sidereals 1E.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:03
|
|
|
Dodge Charms posted:The thing I want from non-combat skills is mechanical consequences. I'm fine with non-mechanical consequences - but it's the middle ground that's a real problem. 2e Solar Crafts had a ton of problems. Reduce crafting time by time X, reduce cost by amount Y, etc, but ultimately it doesn't matter because the whole system is super nebulous to begin with. If Crafts has to be non-mechanical, make it world shaping. This Charm lets you make mould any object into any other object, this Charm lets you shatter weapons in combat, this Charm lets you instantly equip an army, etc. Reducing time by 1/4 (round up) is stupid, because it's trying to apply exact numbers to a system that doesn't care about exact numbers, with the result being net zero.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:03
|
|
|
Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:The easiest solution to for example Crafts v Melee, is having an early charm in Crafts that says you can swap your Crafts rating for Melee when attacking (or Thrown, or Archery, each) because you're used to handling those items so much on account of being a divinely empowered craftsperson. And naturally, an early Melee/Thrown/Archery charm would let you sub that rating for Crafts right back, because you know how the killing tools work, if you are so inclined. If anything, I'd say you'd be better off adopting a general philosophy that the uses of your various numbers aren't assumed to be absolutely exclusive. Then, when attempting a task where multiple skills of yours overlap, reward the character for the resulting synergy. (Instead of the current case in many of the game's subsystems where you're instead punished if you're not sufficiently diversified) When such a system is your default state of affairs, you don't need to eat up any design space on exceptions for pretending the bad guy is a block of marble and carving him a new everything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
Dodge Charms posted:The thing I want from non-combat skills is mechanical consequences. This. So very much this. Any and all skills should have weight in the system and be able to provide real levers to apply to the world, without being hand-waved. If I want to do it that way, there's any number of systems. Exalted has crunch to it - and if it's written to actually be good in this edition, that would make me a very happy GM.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
If we didn't need consequences, we could just go back to Exalted 1e. The more I think about it, the more I miss Weapons of the Gods.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 22:07
|
|
|
bartkusa posted:If we didn't need consequences, we could just go back to Exalted 1e. Legends of the Wulin is basically a WotG 2.0, have you checked that one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 23:09
|
|
|
I don't get where y'all are talking about with the Crafts guy being weaker than the Melee guy. In my experience it is the opposite after a short period because the Crafts guy will start making invincible robot armies. Sometimes they are also zombies. These will then be improved further, probably by the Sorcery he also picked up, and basically he wins the game because he builds a bunch of poo poo. This may be more of a question of players than of the actual games, of course, but it seems to be not atypical in Exalted. I understand why it was easier to, say, have a book of artifacts and artifact accessories than a book on developing, managing and operating religions -- but gosh darn it, maybe I'm just sick of every game I seem to run into turn into a story about gear. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 06:28
|
|
|
My problem with crafts mechanics is they're always inevitably boring as hell. "Roll a bunch of dice. Then do it again. And again and again and again until you get enough successes that you can stop. Ignore the rules for crafting time because everybody does, the GM will just say 'enough time has passed' because the other players don't want to sit around for six weeks/months/whatever while you stand over a loading bar, and then you collect your item. The end." Maybe sometimes designers like to spice it up by suggesting that you could go questing for rare ingredients! Y'know...having an adventure. Like you would be doing anyway even if you weren't making a ludicrously overpowered magic sword. Great, awesome job, cut and print. There aren't even a lot of interesting things to steal from video games either since crafting there is almost always some combination of  , grinding, and obsessively memorizing recipe lists off GameFAQs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 06:37
|
|
|
The nasty thing about Crafts is that certain Crafts branch Exalts start using funny things in their crafting recipes. Like, 'Unfriendly Exalt + Purple Smoke = A Flock of Chickens'
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 07:05
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:"Roll a bunch of dice. Then do it again. And again and again and again until you get enough successes that you can stop. Ignore the rules for crafting time because everybody does, the GM will just say 'enough time has passed' because the other players don't want to sit around for six weeks/months/whatever while you stand over a loading bar, and then you collect your item. The end." You do realize that the whole point of asking them to make crafting, or nationbuilding, or any number of other non-combat things have mechanical weight is so it isn't like that? Saying, "it's not worth spending time on because it has always been boring in the past," is pretty idiotic. Crafting should be as mechanically useful and interesting as other parts of the game. Exalts don't just do things, they make things. Things that outlast them. The game should support it. EDIT: Also, we always used the crafting time rules, since I (as the GM), built in generous swaths of narrative time, jumping forward months or even years, letting the players actually build things up in a long term fashion. And I had to handwave way too much doing it, but it did make the game better. Kenlon fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Nov 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 07:15
|
|
|
All right, so what is the great idea for giving crafting mechanics equal weight to things like swordfighting and impassioned debates on the nature of true love in the middle of swordfights and waging wars?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 07:29
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:All right, so what is the great idea for giving crafting mechanics equal weight to things like swordfighting and impassioned debates on the nature of true love in the middle of swordfights and waging wars? The fact that I know the characteristics of me desired mechanic does not imply that I have a specific mechanic in mind, but rather that I have told you one of my fitness metrics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 07:49
|
|
|
Kenlon posted:Crafting should be as mechanically useful and interesting as other parts of the game. Exalts don't just do things, they make things. Things that outlast them. The game should support it. It should support it! Supporting it doesn't mean "make craft interchangeable with melee" though, and if your players are more into killing stuff, maybe they should make Dawns instead of Twilights. Building a car in your garage probably shouldn't have the same immediacy as getting into a knife fight at a bar. If building things, things that are useful and that last, is boring to you in and of itself, because you think stirring speeches and knife fights are the exciting stuff ... then stick to the stirring speeches and knife fights? I don't play crafters either. They bore me, and I have no idea how to make their system not boring than to go with a system like Apocalypse World where it's a narrative rather than simulationist mechanic (ie, bad poo poo tends to happen when you hunker down to build stuff that makes life interesting.) White Wolf doesn't ever really touch those kind of mechanics however. Heart Attacks fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Nov 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 07:50
|
|
|
Dodge Charms posted:It's what we're paying the 3e devs to do the hard work and figure out, I hope. Okay, and my honest suspicion is that this probably won't actually happen because crafting isn't on par with dramatic, weighty things full of choices and consequences like war, politics, swordfights, and impassioned speeches. I haven't played every game ever but so far I've yet to see someone, either in TRPG-land or video games, make a crafting system that was anything other than a chore you went through to get some good gear that you could take with you on the actual exciting parts of the game. I don't think this is something that has to do with Exalted or the Exalted designers specifically, I think this has to do with Crafting as an active RPG element in general. I would genuinely enjoy being proven wrong here, but I suspect that there just isn't actually a whole lot you can do to dress up Crafting in the Storyteller system to put it on par with things like combat in terms of being mechanically useful and interesting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 08:18
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Okay, and my honest suspicion is that this probably won't actually happen because crafting isn't on par with dramatic, weighty things full of choices and consequences like war, politics, swordfights, and impassioned speeches. I haven't played every game ever but so far I've yet to see someone, either in TRPG-land or video games, make a crafting system that was anything other than a chore you went through to get some good gear that you could take with you on the actual exciting parts of the game. I don't think this is something that has to do with Exalted or the Exalted designers specifically, I think this has to do with Crafting as an active RPG element in general. The moment it came time to design the craft system for Ex3, and we went "Okay, what are some good crafting systems in RPGs we can use as starting points for inspiration?" was highly illuminating. Or, rather the "...poo poo. I can't think of any" moment was illuminating.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 09:06
|
|
|
Heart Attacks posted:I don't play crafters either. They bore me, and I have no idea how to make their system not boring than to go with a system like Apocalypse World where it's a narrative rather than simulationist mechanic (ie, bad poo poo tends to happen when you hunker down to build stuff that makes life interesting.) White Wolf doesn't ever really touch those kind of mechanics however. Yeah, Apocalypse World has the best approach to crafting I've seen. Like the Savvyhead's Workspace move: The Savvyhead - Workspace posted:Choose which of the following your workspace includes. Choose 3: Substitute genesis labs and Wyld pockets for growing environments and machining tools, expand the basic crafting mechanic with Charms and you're set. I really think Exalted would work better if it were Powered by the Apocalypse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 09:23
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I haven't played every game ever but so far I've yet to see someone, either in TRPG-land or video games, make a crafting system that was anything other than a chore you went through to get some good gear that you could take with you on the actual exciting parts of the game. Well, there's Minecraft. Okay, the making tools part is boring, but the exciting part is making buildings. Starting with nothing. Punching trees to get sticks to make your first pick. Sticking blocks on top of blocks. Making a house. Making a second house, bigger this time. Making a giant lava-lamp to make it easier to find your house when you lose it. Hollowing out mountains. Digging deeper, greedier. Scraping out holes down to the bedrock in order to gather the materials necessary to construct a scale model of the Enterprise-D to sit as the centerpiece of your tiny diorama of Bag's End, Ponyville, the Arc D'Triomphe, and a battle scene between Optimus Prime and the Gurren Lagann.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 09:45
|
|
|
Bigup DJ posted:Yeah, Apocalypse World has the best approach to crafting I've seen. Like the Savvyhead's Workspace move: Seconding this. The GMC rules update for NWoD mad some mechanics that looked to be inspired by PBTA games, especially in the merit design, and it works pretty well. The rules format of 'give the player a bunch of options, giving more/better choices on a great success' works very well for downtime or more narrative resolution styles. It also makes a lot of sense for projects, as the player is making the same kind of tradeoffs as the character while not having to deal with tons of crunch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 09:57
|
|
|
To elaborate so it doesn't seem like I'm just threadshitting, the problem with crafting as a Thing You Do is it's largely A). static and B). passive. You're sitting in a workshop making something. That's boring. Most attempts to spice crafting up involve activities that are not sitting around and making something (questing for rare ingredients/parts, having to earn a bunch of money to afford the costs, etc.). In fact, what makes the Apocalypse System work is that it's entirely based around "stuff that isn't actually making the whatever you want to make." The default assumption is that you succeed if you go through the following, more interesting steps, but the actual act of crafting is given no mechanical attention whatsoever. Something like combat, it's easy to see how to make that a mechanically interesting challenge for players to overcome. Attack and defend, parry and feint, etc. It's dynamic in a way that making a sword or a giant robot suit isn't. Players push, the system plus the GM push back, and there's an interplay that's easy to make engaging and deep (if that's what you're going for). I mean, you could awkwardly try and shove combat-esque mechanics into the act of making a magic sword but I don't think that would actually give anybody what they want. But fundamentally things like Crafting are just not going to be on-par depth-wise with things like waging wars, dueling villains, or trying to sway the hearts and minds of a nation. The most interesting thing about Crafting, really, isn't the act of making something, it's what happens after. "I want to make a robot army" is kind of, yeah okay, whatever. "I have a robot army, now what am I going to do with it?" is where interesting things happen. I can envision a system where Craft has the same sort of broad-scope effects on the world as, say, warfare or politics, where you're given options in terms of things like what concerns your inventions are made to address and how you go about unleashing them on the world, and then stuff happens and your magic hover-underpants have revolutionized how society works and there's fallout from underpants traditionalists. But a system where the guy with 5 dots of Crafts has as much fun game-stuff to do as the guy with 5 dots in Melee is something I just don't see happening anytime soon. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Nov 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 10:04
|
|
|
I don't know, as a GM I think a 'roll for consequences/events' system could make Crafting pretty interesting. It just needs a bit more interaction between player and GM. Maybe a system where the GM picks a certain number of challenges for the task and then the player gets to roll against these challenges with failure requiring halting the project or accepting an additional consequence or upgrading an existing one into something worse. A push-your-luck mechanic might also be a good idea. That way 'weaker' Crafting splats could make powerful artifacts, but would be discouraged from doing so. Add on some sort of negotiation process too? edit: here's a draft of what I mean. This is just me tossing poo poo around to see what sticks late at night while I'm bored so it's not exactly well thought out. You start with X number of events/'problems' with your artifact. Maybe these are the exotic ingredients, maybe these are other things like small curses or side effects like toxic run off from your project. Whatever, they're what we'll call Minor issues. The GM tells you the roll interval based on the nature of the project and you can choose to compress this, but now you have to suffer additional Minor consequences to do so. You roll X times. Each time you succeed you pass and you only have to do whatever the Minor thing that's required of you. If you fail you either halt and suffer a Major consequence (no one escapes for free) or you can re-roll. If you succeed there then you get to continue, but now one of your Minor issues is a Major consequence. Fail on that re-roll and you can roll yet again. If you succeed there you suffer a Critical consequence, but crafting continues. Failure means your project comes to a terrible halt and that Critical consequence befalls you anyway. What exactly defines a Minor/Major/Critical consequence could be scaled for the level of what you're making. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Nov 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 10:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
Heart Attacks posted:It should support it! The problem here is what do the twilights do when combat breaks out? Twiddle their thumbs? Hide behind the Dawn caste? Especially since combat is such a major part of the system you can't have people sit out of it. Bigup DJ posted:I really think Exalted would work better if it were Powered by the Apocalypse. Amen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 10:33
|
|
