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Sash! posted:And why are they letting Garak do anything on the Defiant at all? He doesn't work for the Federation and is a foreign national AND was an intelligence operative. I don't see the harm. I mean it's not like Federation ships all just have some kind of code the Cardassians could use that would remotely turn off their shields or something, that would just be stupid.
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Nov 6, 2013 07:21
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So after protecting myself from Enterprise I've decided to make the final plunge after Voyager turned out to be better than expected so long as I skipped the episodes that my memory from 10 years ago logged as "retarded as gently caress". No Janeway Paris hot lizard action for this guy. Janeway is definitely cringe worthy sometimes but nowhere near as grating as I remember, though any time I hear Chakotay, as in ex-terrorist Chakotay, talk about peaceful resolutions I want to stab him in the face over and over and over and So Enterprise! Fuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkk yoooooooooooouuuuuu timmmmmmmmmme travelllllll. Ok, besides that, FUUUCK YOU TIME Tr.. ok. Good, feel better. Starts so drat slow that I almost gave up on it, but once they got to thunderdome things improved with the exception of a couple episodes (but also, here because of time travel MOTHERFUCKER). Also, hey Archer? Forcing the clone of your engineer to submit to lethal brain surgery basically at gunpoint? Dick move, just.. real dick move. Super plus side to season 3, the 5 way big bad aliens tried to cut off Florida bugs bunny style, cut laterally you idiots. Hopefully the next prototype probe gets it.
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Nov 6, 2013 08:02
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Sash! posted:Basically the Federation is terrible at everything. Garak is a pretty good 'advisor' at various Cardassia related topics because he was/is an intelligence officer.
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Nov 6, 2013 09:34
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Sprat Sandwich posted:Garak is a pretty good 'advisor' at various Cardassia related topics because he was/is an intelligence officer. Check your mailbox, pretty sure Starfleet just offered you an Admiral position. Be sure to send as many Miranda class ships up against undefeatable enemies as possible, you'll be fine.
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Nov 6, 2013 09:42
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Spaceman Future! posted:Check your mailbox, pretty sure Starfleet just offered you an Admiral position. Be sure to send as many Miranda class ships up against undefeatable enemies as possible, you'll be fine. Sweet, a cushy government job. Hope I don't get infected by some parasitic worms or anything.
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Nov 6, 2013 09:45
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Sprat Sandwich posted:Sweet, a cushy government job. No, you're Admiral that means you have to turn into a cartoonishly evil dick bag, who thinks they're doing good. It's like federation law or something.
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Nov 6, 2013 10:01
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LeafyOrb posted:No, you're Admiral that means you have to turn into a cartoonishly evil dick bag, who thinks they're doing good. It's like federation law or something. Whatever man, go take these supplies to this backwards-rear end planet and oh there's this weird thing eating spaceships floating around it, maybe check that out too, OK I'm gonna replicate myself a Lamborghini peace out.
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Nov 6, 2013 10:05
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It's almost certainly been discussed to death to previous ST threads, but I still can't help but think that Voyager would have benefited greatly had the entire crew mutinied against Janeway and her stunning ineptitude/idiocy sometime before the end of Season 1. Get the EMH in on the mutiny, even. But no. She and the crew make their way back to Earth about 6 years longer than it should have taken them, and the braintrust at Starfleet makes her an ADMIRAL. She outranks Picard in the last several TNG films! She wasn't even a proper Star Trek Admiral, either, since her existing personality likely couldn't muster "ignorantly noble sociopath" correctly, as with all Starfleet top brass. Goddamnit, Voyager. Goddamnit.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:03
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DrSunshine posted:Concerning "Concerning Flight" -- John Rhys-Davies was a lot better at doing a Dwarf accent than an Italian one, I have to say. I don't know. I think he has a pretty good grasp on what it takes to do an Italian accent.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nfHAM7qiA
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Nov 6, 2013 13:24
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Exactly the clip I was hoping for 
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Nov 6, 2013 15:00
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Gonz posted:It's almost certainly been discussed to death to previous ST threads, but I still can't help but think that Voyager would have benefited greatly had the entire crew mutinied against Janeway and her stunning ineptitude/idiocy sometime before the end of Season 1. She only outranks Picard in the last and worst Star Trek movie. Also, there's a really ugly subtext to having the first "legitimate" mutiny on Star Trek take place against the first starring woman captain, to put a man in charge of the ship.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:51
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Also, there's a really ugly subtext to having the first "legitimate" mutiny on Star Trek take place against the first starring woman captain, to put a man in charge of the ship. Like I said, get the EMH in on the mutiny. Emergency Command Hologram, activate! The EMH is not a man. It's not even human.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:04
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:She only outranks Picard in the last and worst Star Trek movie. Yeah, I remember the Captain vs Admiral argument. I always figured she got promoted away from the front lines of Starfleet due to her 'successes' in the Delta Quadrant. They just let her push papers, which are far less likely to cause trouble than being in a first contact or leadership role. As far as the mutiny goes, I give that subtext less weight since the man that she's being replaced with was a captain in his own right, on his own ship, with his own crew, a crew that was absorbed by Voyager when he sacrificed his ship to save Voyager. It's still somewhat problematic, but it can easily be explained in an in-universe way.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:11
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Otisburg posted:Alright, so having exhausted Good Trek I have turned to Voyager. I am following this watch list to try and avoid the worst of the merely substandard bij, while experiencing the obligitory sublime bij.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:12
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Gau posted:Okay, you fuckers, I need a break from my eight-season Supernatural binge. What, in your opinion, is the best episode of Voyager to just pick up and watch? The Dark Frontier made for TV movie. It's a two parter, so set aside some time for it. Then that episode with the evil virtual reality clown. Mostly for the ending. Both of them have Janeway go batshit insane with a creepy amount of psychotic rage at certain points in the episode. Both of them also make a pretty good case for her literally being crazy too. They're both actually pretty good if you look at them as examinations of what kind of person Janeway is. Coincidentally, at least one of them (Dark Frontier) wasn't written by the usual writers too. Dark Frontier even won a few awards, though the main writing staff spurned the huge plot developments it introduced. Presumably due to jealously or something. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 16:13
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Hmm. Does anyone else get the sense that Voyager's 2-parters are, in general, a cut or two above the rest? Maybe it's because the longer format allowed them to get actual continuity and bigger plots going or something, but in general I've found the two parters a lot more compelling than the usual 40-minute episodes.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:14
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Gonz posted:Like I said, get the EMH in on the mutiny. Emergency Command Hologram, activate! The EMH is not a man. It's not even human. I had a paragraph here taking apart your post, but you're probably just making a dumb joke. If not, let me know and I can explain how your post is completely wrong. kelvron posted:As far as the mutiny goes, I give that subtext less weight since the man that she's being replaced with was a captain in his own right, on his own ship, with his own crew, a crew that was absorbed by Voyager when he sacrificed his ship to save Voyager. It's still somewhat problematic, but it can easily be explained in an in-universe way. The threat of a mutiny isn't inherently bad, it's the assertion that the entire crew rises up as one and says "no you're just always wrong all the time" and kicks her out so a man can take her place. A power struggle is fine, hell even Ron Moore's idea of "putting her on trial" mid-series is workable, but the idea that the first Star Trek series to feature a woman as Captain would pitch her out after just one year and continue the rest of the series with a man in charge is a staggeringly bad idea.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:17
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Profit and Lace: Will Quark's narrowly escaped rape while in female form make him stop sexually harassing his defenseless employees? Yes, for approximately five entire minutes!
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Nov 6, 2013 17:41
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DrSunshine posted:Hmm. Does anyone else get the sense that Voyager's 2-parters are, in general, a cut or two above the rest? Maybe it's because the longer format allowed them to get actual continuity and bigger plots going or something, but in general I've found the two parters a lot more compelling than the usual 40-minute episodes. That's true of TNG and DS9 but I really didn't find that the case with Voyager or Enterprise. There were exceptions but generally most Voyager 2-parters were just a waste of 2 hours instead of one.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:58
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showbiz_liz posted:Profit and Lace: Will Quark's narrowly escaped rape while in female form make him stop sexually harassing his defenseless employees? Yes, for approximately five entire minutes! Ferengi episodes either own or are loving terrible. Mostly because profit and lace is the only loving terrible one.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:59
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Gonz posted:It's almost certainly been discussed to death to previous ST threads, but I still can't help but think that Voyager would have benefited greatly had the entire crew mutinied against Janeway and her stunning ineptitude/idiocy sometime before the end of Season 1. Here's a better way to do this. Neelix leads the mutiny. He points out to disaffected ratings and Maquis that they could find a planet and land on it, do some hustling and bustling, and trade Federation technological secrets to create a new outpost. Live comfortably on a planet, do deep science, etc. - make their own lives. The plan is initially bloodless but starts veering towards settling a bunch of scores, perhaps with secondary characters. They approach the doctor to prepare some kind of anesthetic gas to help things and the Doctor flat out refuses them, and when they threaten to reprogram him, he quotes a Maquis thing about freedom or whatever, getting Chakotay out of his headspace for a moment. Episode wraps with a confrontation with Janeway; Voyager's MO shifts from that point forwards to be less pure Starfleet, if still perhaps not actively breaking the Prime Directive, robbing other ships, etc. Perhaps they have to kill Neelix along the way. This works better, of course, if Voyager had been more of an actual serial and less... well. quote:But no. She and the crew make their way back to Earth about 6 years longer than it should have taken them, and the braintrust at Starfleet makes her an ADMIRAL. She outranks Picard in the last several TNG films!
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Nov 6, 2013 18:20
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The threat of a mutiny isn't inherently bad, it's the assertion that the entire crew rises up as one and says "no you're just always wrong all the time" and kicks her out so a man can take her place. Yeah, while I think a mutiny would have made for a gripping season one finale and cliffhanger having the entire crew mutiny would be a bad idea, as would making the changeover be permanent. Start the next season with Janeway in the brig and Chakotay's more ruthless Maquis approach generating problems of its own, maybe Janeway could have crippled key computer systems and they've been forced to deal with workarounds. Ultimately the situation would be resolved returning Janeway to command extolling the virtues of the Federation approach but with her now willing to get her hands dirty occasionally, basically something similar to Kirk's frontier style captaincy where diplomacy is the preferred option but they know it doesn't always work. And of course there'd be some lovely drama and tension between those who mutinied and those who supported Janeway, especially if you mix it up so it's not just Maquis among the mutineers and Starfleet who were loyal to the captain.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:31
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That sounds like effort though. Can't we just have a season of inconsequential poo poo that the writers can knock out in an hour or two? some of them have a seven of nine to go home and speculum, ya know.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:46
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I hesitate to ask this, but- surely some enterprising fan has written a "what if Voyager was good" fanfic that is actually entertaining to read?
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Nov 6, 2013 18:52
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What if Naruto was on the bridge of Voyager??? OC included NarutoXTuvok 2,546,386 words
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Nov 6, 2013 18:55
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showbiz_liz posted:I hesitate to ask this, but- surely some enterprising fan has written a "what if Voyager was good" fanfic that is actually entertaining to read? I wouldn't be surprised if some fanfiction was better then what we got on Voyager. Can't get any worse, really. A chimpanzee and two trainees could write better.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:55
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showbiz_liz posted:I hesitate to ask this, but- surely some enterprising fan has written a "what if Voyager was good" fanfic that is actually entertaining to read? Why read dumb fanfiction when somebody literally made a good version of Voyager: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9SgxDw3-UI
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Nov 6, 2013 19:06
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1st AD posted:Why read dumb fanfiction when somebody literally made a good version of Voyager: I'd love to hear Olmos as a starfleet captain. "Mr. Thompson! -dramatic pause- Beam that scum directly into the sun." DRUMS
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Nov 6, 2013 19:27
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1st AD posted:Why read dumb fanfiction when somebody literally made a good version of Voyager: Just because you like a thing doesn't mean it has anything whatsoever to do with another thing. Like, at all.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:29
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Except it does, so you're wrong.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:33
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Spaceman Future! posted:Just because you like a thing doesn't mean it has anything whatsoever to do with another thing. Like, at all. Voyager and BSG do share a similarity. They're both about a ship (Yes, BSG has a fleet, but Galactica is the important one) that is on a long voyage to get home. However, that is where the similarities begin and end. DS9 and BSG are more similar, in that they were both heavily influenced by Ronald D Moore and deal with religion/spirituality, freedom, and terrorism, among other things.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:37
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Spaceman Future! posted:Just because you like a thing doesn't mean it has anything whatsoever to do with another thing. Like, at all. Battlestar was made by a guy who has said that a lot of what happened on BSG was basically just the stuff he couldn't quite do when he wrote for DS9, and who, immediately after DS9, had a "creative clash" regarding what he could and could not do when he began writing for Voyager. You know, that other show about a ship with limited supplies a long way from their destination or home. Except it's the one with the giant reset button that BSG is known for not using. EDIT: quote:Ron Moore: Yah…probably…when I was on my brief tenure on Voyager and I was starting to think in terms of what I wanted to do, I remember sitting with the writing staff and saying ‘I really think…that when Voyager gets damaged it should get damaged, we should stop repairing the ship, the ship should be broken down more and devolving a little bit more.’ One of the ideas I had is that they should start developing their own culture within the starship and letting go of Starfleet protocols and stop thinking of themselves as Starfleet people on some level, even though they still wear the uniform and still try to adhere to the regulations. I thought it would be interesting that by the time this ship got back to Earth, that it didn’t even belong at Earth anymore. That it sort of had become its own culture, it had formed its own civilization which was dissimilar to that which they had left behind…Now that you mention this there was somebody, I don’t think it was me, somebody had pitched the notion of them having to guard some alien ships they had encountered. It was a convoy and through some plot I can’t remember that they had agreed to protect and Sheppard through some hostile star systems on their journey. And they were going to be the warship tending the little convey of civilian ships. And I was really taken with it and really liked the idea and thought it would be cool and it was sort of Galactica. We might have even mentioned Galactica….but to your question, If I had been the showrunner from the beginning I probably would have sent it into a darker direction and sent it into a more harrowing journey yes. And made them more on the run and more less of a pretty journey getting back, and at the same time, I probably would have felt compelled to stay within certain boundaries of what Trek was and how Trek had established itself. So I don’t think I could have taken Voyager to the places I have taken Galactica, even if I did have the reins. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 19:37
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Hip-Hoptimus Rhyme posted:Voyager and BSG do share a similarity. They're both about a ship (Yes, BSG has a fleet, but Galactica is the important one) that is on a long voyage to get home. However, that is where the similarities begin and end. DS9 and BSG are more similar, in that they were both heavily influenced by Ronald D Moore and deal with religion/spirituality, freedom, and terrorism, among other things. So BSG takes what made DS9 compelling and puts it in Voyager's setting/circumstances? Sounds exactly like what Voyager should've been.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:38
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1st AD posted:Except it does, so you're wrong. Not really. Galactiga was an evaluation of a military structure under constant strain of internal threats, the other was a scientific structure coping with the moral issues of survival against your prime directorate of peace. Other than spaceships and something to do with earth, not so much in common. DirtyRobot posted:Is this a joke post? You kidding? Battlestar abused the hell out of their reset button. "Dude was a Cylon all along, she was a cylon, that dude? Cylon. Her? She died, totes back as a cylon! Cylonnnnnn cyyyyyylonnnnnn" Beyond a few basic premises the shows are nowhere near the same thing. Tonally or plotwise. Spaceman Future! fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 19:39
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DirtyRobot posted:Battlestar was made by a guy who has said that a lot of what happened on BSG was basically just the stuff he couldn't quite do when he wrote for DS9, and who, immediately after DS9, had a "creative clash" regarding what he could and could not do when he began writing for Voyager. You know, that other show about a ship with limited supplies a long way from their destination or home. Except it's the one with the giant reset button that BSG is known for not using. Right. When DS9 ended, Braga invited Moore over to Voyager, and the offer -- at least as far as Moore understood it -- was essentially that they would be creative partners, just as they were through much of TNG and on the first two movies. When Moore got to the Voyager writers' room, he found it to be pretty toxic, and Braga told him to just shut up and go write, because he (Braga) was in charge of the show. That led to Moore leaving after only like two or three weeks, and he used a lot of what he wanted to do with Voyager when he was putting BSG together.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:41
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Spaceman Future! posted:Just because you like a thing doesn't mean it has anything whatsoever to do with another thing. Like, at all. RDM said the serialization and style of BSG is a direct response to the restrictions on DS9 and Voyager. E: holy hell that's a lot of replies since I started typing
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Nov 6, 2013 19:46
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The setting for Voyager and BSG is the same thing in broadstrokes. Of course the tone is completely different; that's a result of one show actually working realistically in the setting and one show just trying to do TNG in the delta quadrant. If you think they're really unconnected you must be the biggest retard in this thread currently (RIP conquistador) who has no idea how to contextualize events that happened behind the scenes which informed Moore's vision for BSG.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:49
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1st AD posted:The setting for Voyager and BSG is the same thing in broadstrokes. Of course the tone is completely different; that's a result of one show actually working realistically in the setting and one show just trying to do TNG in the delta quadrant. There's a bit of a difference between saying things may have connections and saying that someone "Literally made a good version of Voyager". If your point was that they share some elements and that there was some writing crew and inspirations in common, well you should have posted that rather than trying to defend a statement that was completely different and also stupid and dumb and awful and horrible and dumb and stupid.
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Nov 6, 2013 20:02
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Naw you were just picking a dumb fight and it's clear to everyone in this thread that you're being stupid. Now back down before you dig that hole any further.
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Nov 6, 2013 20:04
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1st AD posted:Naw you were just picking a dumb fight and it's clear to everyone in this thread that you're being stupid. Now back down before you dig that hole any further. If you consider someone pointing out a really badly worded post fightin words you best get your shitkickers on pilgrim because its pistols at noon. Now, I could totally buy "Well, Battlestar took the base thematic elements of Voyager and went in a different direction with them and because of that was a pretty good show before it poo poo itself so hard that its taken years for people to block out the last string of episodes", because that I would agree with.
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Nov 6, 2013 20:15
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