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Edmund Honda posted:If you want a Wii U on the promise of future games then buy it, you don't need to justify your purchases to anyone. I never owned a Wii and know that a bunch of really good games came out for it that are probably fairly cheap now, thats all. Buying a WiiU gives me access to its (limited) pool of games as well as 6 odd years of Wii games.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:22
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Buy a Wii for $50 used now, by a U later. Buy Muscle March, it's the best game.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:25
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JetsGuy posted:
The licenses to enable that would cost money, a pretty small amount but still an amount per console sold.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:31
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What the gently caress? The Wii U can't even do these things? loving hell, Nintendo.
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RagnarokAngel posted:If you think the PS4 and XBone just have shootyman army games then you haven't really looked at stuff as much as you're claiming. The Wii U is suffering from a drought and it doesnt look like it's gonna improve. It suffered from a drought and is way way better now. If you think it hasn't improved, "you haven't really looked at stuff". Edmund Honda posted:The licenses to enable that would cost money, a pretty small amount but still an amount per console sold. I think Nintendo also chooses to employ constant angular velocity in order to have a longer lifespan to the drive itself. Disc drives will of course wear out faster than 0-moving-part cartridge slots, but Nintendo still does consider reliability over time to be somewhat important for their hardware. I like that.
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Nov 7, 2013 00:16
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Edmund Honda posted:Not only is that article amazing, the comments are something else: 
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Nov 7, 2013 00:23
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Simiain posted:He is talking to his investors. I'm really enjoying my WiiU right now, and I'm looking forward to picking up a PS4 or XB1 once I find out which console will have the best running fighting games. It does seem like Nintendo is banking on people buying more "Wii60" combos just like the previous generation.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:43
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RagnarokAngel posted:If you think the PS4 and XBone just have shootyman army games then you haven't really looked at stuff as much as you're claiming. The Wii U is suffering from a drought and it doesnt look like it's gonna improve. As someone who has a PS4 on pre-order solely for a shooty-man army game, there's also sports games and racing games available for the platform, along with whatever the gently caress Knack is. Honestly if I didn't need 64 player Battlefield in my veins I wouldn't go anywhere near the PS4/Xbone, I really don't see too much on the horizon for either system that I'm super stoked about (unless The Last Guardian winds up being a PS4 game).
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Nov 7, 2013 03:48
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Edmund Honda posted:Not only is that article amazing, the comments are something else: Alteisen posted:This is very common with the really rabid Nintendo fans, the ones that have been there since the NES, they will jump through some amazing hoops just for some false sense of superiority. The definition of hardcore isn't "manly". CoD players and FIFA players more often than not do not play other genres. The Infinity Ward executive producer said himself that CoD players are not hardcore gamers. http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/10/21/call-of-duty-players-arent-hardcore-gamers-says-infinity-ward A hardcore gamer is the traditional demographic of enthusiasts represented by people who would play games even if gaming weren't mainstream. They're people who spend a lot of money on games. They're the "hardcore fans". Also, piss off Iwata. E3 2011 was all about you saying the Wii U would be about bringing back older gamers. "Wider and deeper" and all that. That was the entire premise behind the stupid "Wii U" name! And now you've gone back to saying you're not about the CoD market? Do Nintendo care that they're a joke to a large segment of gamers? AngryCaterpillar fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 04:08
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JetsGuy posted:The Wii couldn't even loving play DVDs, something that systems in even the previous generation were able to do, and wouldn't even play CDs, something that systems could do for well over 10 years before it came out. THe PS4 can't play CDs... just saying!
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Nov 7, 2013 04:14
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AngryCaterpillar posted:Also, piss off Iwata. E3 2011 was all about you saying the Wii U would be about bringing back older gamers. "Wider and deeper" and all that. That was the entire premise behind the stupid "Wii U" name! And now you've gone back to saying you're not about the CoD market? Do Nintendo care that they're a joke to a large segment of gamers? Did you read the entire investor Q&A?
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Nov 7, 2013 04:15
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Did you read the entire investor Q&A? No but this paragraph pretty directly implies that Wii U isn't for "skilled users" “Other companies will launch new consoles (in the overseas markets at the end of this year), but I think they focus on targeting highly skilled users. Therefore, in that sense, though the competition will heat up because new game consoles will come out and there will be a ‘war of the game consoles’ played out in media articles, we wonder if the target user will actually be the same.” In other words, "PS4 and XBoxOne are for the pros, and the media thinks we're targeting that market too, but we're not".
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Nov 7, 2013 04:19
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AngryCaterpillar posted:No but this paragraph pretty directly implies that Wii U isn't for "skilled users" You should read the entire thing in context, which begins with the phrase "Nintendo is preparing a number of Wii U games for next year that greatly appeal to highly skilled users" He literally said the opposite of what you're claiming. His argument (and I'm not saying it is a good strategy or that he's right) is that this holiday season Nintendo is targeting a wide variety of demographics but the PS4/One's launch is going to focus very heavily on targeting... well, the kind of people who will rush out to buy a brand new console in the first months of release. And at least part of that he isn't wrong about. The initial sales demographics for ANY product are the hardcore users. His argument is basically "we're not going to be trying to get the guys who already have their PS4 preorders down, we're going to be trying to get the family who is looking for a gift for Christmas. The stuff for the hardcore gamers is coming next year." To some degree this "next gen" war's first salvo is already over. PS4 comes out next week. X-Box One comes out the week after. Black Friday hits the week after that. Initial stocks for both systems are going to be sold out quickly (if they are in fact not sold out already). Whatever war happens here has basically already happened, we're just waiting for the after-action report. Iwata's argument, for good or ill, is that they're not targeting the high-focused hardcore demographics. They're going to have a system on shelves with a new Mario game and a Wii Fit product which will be readily available to purchase by people who haven't already made up their mind and thrown down the money for a PS4/One preorder. There's a lot of flaws with this argument but it the same as "we don't want hardcore gamers on our system." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 04:34
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Astro7x posted:THe PS4 can't play CDs... just saying! Well, true, but it will be able to play MP3s I put on it with removable media. Or act as a media server right?
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Nov 7, 2013 05:54
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ImpAtom posted:You should read the entire thing in context, which begins with the phrase "Nintendo is preparing a number of Wii U games for next year that greatly appeal to highly skilled users" He literally said the opposite of what you're claiming. That's only because it has already resigned itself to largely not be an adult's machine. The Wii U is dated technology with a view of the internet from 2005. It can't possibly compete for the traditional gamer market to the same extent. I don't see why the target demographics have to be looked at as mutually exclusive of each other. Convergence is the future of technology. People want to do everything with one system. That means Nintendo's philosophy of only offering what others do not will become increasingly unsustainable. If Nintendo truly saw the Wii U as capable of capturing the adult gamer market, they would be promoting the console as the only thing a gamer needs this holiday, even during the launch of other systems. But they know it isn't capable of that, so any games it has for "more skilled players" is only a token selection.
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Nov 7, 2013 05:59
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AngryCaterpillar posted:That's only because it has already resigned itself to largely not be an adult's machine. The Wii U is dated technology with a view of the internet from 2005. It can't possibly compete for the traditional gamer market to the same extent. I don't see why the target demographics have to be looked at as mutually exclusive of each other. Convergence is the future of technology. People want to do everything with one system. That means Nintendo's philosophy of only offering what others do not will become increasingly unsustainable. If Nintendo truly saw the Wii U as capable of capturing the adult gamer market, they would be promoting the console as the only thing a gamer needs this holiday, even during the launch of other systems. But they know it isn't capable of that, so any games it has for "more skilled players" is only a token selection. That isn't what they said at all, and you're the one tying "adult" to "highly skilled" when Iwata himself mentioned targeting adults and kids are not exactly running out to grab Wii Fit. I don't even necessarily disagree with your points but the adult gamer market is not actually the same as the traditional hardcore gamer market and Iwata's own comments are suggesting they are specifically targeting older gamers who don't fall into that demographic in addition to children. They do believe they can capture adult gamer. They just have a different definition of adult gamer which is divorced from "highly skilled" which they think of as their own market. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 06:03
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JetsGuy posted:Well, true, but it will be able to play MP3s I put on it with removable media. Or act as a media server right? Last I heard it won't do either at launch.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:08
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ImpAtom posted:That isn't what they said at all, and you're the one tying "adult" to "highly skilled" when Iwata himself mentioned targeting adults and kids are not exactly running out to grab Wii Fit. By adult I didn't mean all adults because obviously there are Wii Sports/Wii Fit players among them; I basically meant the CoD online competitive audience. Nintendo has forfeited them when they had a chance this generation to capture some of them. They didn't have to completely concede to MS and Sony but for some reason it's their philosophy to do that.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:29
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Install Windows posted:Last I heard it won't do either at launch. Yeah, with them "Considering" changing it.
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Nov 7, 2013 06:49
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AngryCaterpillar posted:By adult I didn't mean all adults because obviously there are Wii Sports/Wii Fit players among them; I basically meant the CoD online competitive audience. Nintendo has forfeited them when they had a chance this generation to capture some of them. They didn't have to completely concede to MS and Sony but for some reason it's their philosophy to do that. Nintendo, for good or ill, doesn't want to directly compete with Sony and Microsoft. They probably can't. Microsoft and Sony are much larger corporations who have a lot of cross-industry synergy which allows them to do things that Nintendo never could even if Nintendo had a theoretically infinite amount of money available to them. Sony can put movies and television shows from Sony studios on the PSN or whathaveyou. Microsoft has all of Microsoft's vast synergy at their disposal. They can provide things Nintendo literally can't. This may just mean that Nintendo is on its way out of the console business and that they are incapable of competing. What they are betting on is the idea that there is a market who is interested in things that Sony and Microsoft are not providing. To some degree they're right, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily the ones tapping that market. They're certainly trying to be but so far the Wii U has been a fizzle. The Gamepad is unarguably an albatross around their neck but even without it and a console closer in power to the next-gene systems they probably couldn't offer online experiences like Sony/Microsoft will. There's a lot of people hoping they'll go third party but I think people are going to be pretty disappointed if that happens. It's most likely not going to be a glorious Renaissance of fun Nintendo games, just on the PS4. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 06:56
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AngryCaterpillar posted:By adult I didn't mean all adults because obviously there are Wii Sports/Wii Fit players among them; I basically meant the CoD online competitive audience. Nintendo has forfeited them when they had a chance this generation to capture some of them. They didn't have to completely concede to MS and Sony but for some reason it's their philosophy to do that. Not only that, but their original sales pitch for the Wii U was about how they'd be able to pursue those gamers by presenting a system where they'd be situated to receive ports of the popular third-party games and add the Nintendo games on top of that. Basically, going from the PSWii/Wii60 approach of the Wii-era, of owning two systems so that they can have one of the big systems for the popular third-party games and a Wii for Nintendo titles, to just a Nintendo console in this one. It sounded like a bad idea that wouldn't work when they announced it, so the way it's turned out where Nintendo's just had to write off that segment of the audience isn't really surprising.
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Nov 7, 2013 07:03
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thefncrow posted:Not only that, but their original sales pitch for the Wii U was about how they'd be able to pursue those gamers by presenting a system where they'd be situated to receive ports of the popular third-party games and add the Nintendo games on top of that. Basically, going from the PSWii/Wii60 approach of the Wii-era, of owning two systems so that they can have one of the big systems for the popular third-party games and a Wii for Nintendo titles, to just a Nintendo console in this one. They completely underestimated what the competition was going to upgrade to, while simultaneously failing to actually curry favor with third party developers. Granted, the latter has been a problem since forever, and it connects directly to the former. They're always going to be the odd one out with third parties this generation simply because their system is so different on top of being less capable overall. They'd have to have a dramatic reversal of fortunate to change that.
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Nov 7, 2013 07:21
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fivegears4reverse posted:They're always going to be the odd one out with third parties this generation simply because their system is so different on top of being less capable overall. Speaking of which, after nearly a year of speculation and investigation one of the tech guys on gaf finally confirmed the specs of the Wii U's GPU tonight. Turns out it's just about what people thought. It's roughly equivalent to the current gen GPU's, and is shocklingly behind what the next gen machines are packing. As in, compared to the PS4 it has 1/10th the FLOPs, 1/4 the ROPs, 1/9th the texture units, and 1/5th to 1/6th of the useable RAM. Or, to use a pretty picture:  So good luck getting ports once developers switch to next-gen only development.
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Nov 7, 2013 07:42
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fivegears4reverse posted:They completely underestimated what the competition was going to upgrade to, while simultaneously failing to actually curry favor with third party developers. Granted, the latter has been a problem since forever, and it connects directly to the former. They're always going to be the odd one out with third parties this generation simply because their system is so different on top of being less capable overall. They'd have to have a dramatic reversal of fortunate to change that. Right, which is why from last year's E3 I figured that Nintendo was crazy to come out with this as the focus for their console. I figured they'd get third-party ports up until the point where cross-gen development stopped and transitioned to next-gen only, so Nintendo would have to have established themselves by that point and made a case why their system was worth developing for, which would mostly be made in terms of userbase. I thought it'd be a disaster, but I didn't see it being this big of a disaster. Everything in their initial plan read like they assumed that the audience that jumped on for the Wii would be automatically on board, so they could tack back towards trying to reel in the Call of Duty audience and try to pull them on board as well and position themselves as the one system to have and not "maybe a system I'll buy to supplement my gaming behind my PS3/360". Which is why I think the suggestions that Nintendo wasn't trying to woo that audience seems like nonsense when you look at how Nintendo presented their console pre-launch.
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Nov 7, 2013 08:00
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It sounds like they're trying to target people who don't want a PS4 or Xbox One for whatever reason, although considering the PS4 isn't that much more expensive than it, doesn't really give the Wii U much of a niche. Since the other two consoles will be getting both first party exclusives as well as all of the multiplatform games, Nintendo can't really claim that they won't have certain genres or be missing games for certain age ranges. All Nintendo can claim they have which the others don't are Nintendo games and a controller with a big screen in it, so unless their games are really good and the big screen actually improves the games, then it's not much of an incentive to get it. The biggest thing they have is their back catalogue, but even they admitted they haven't done enough with it. Slowly trickling out the games at an even worse pace than they were originally released on the Wii is a terrible idea. They should release as many as they can, have them cross-compatible with the 3DS, and use as many sales and bundles as they can so you can't resist getting everything that comes out. $5 for an NES game you might not like isn't good value, but $5 for all six Mega Man games on the NES is. Steam has shown that you can make more money by heavily discounting games than just keeping them at full price all the time, because you will spend more money on impulse purchases, limited offers, and games that you're vaguely interested in.
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Nov 7, 2013 11:31
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That loving Sned posted:All Nintendo can claim they have which the others don't are Nintendo games and a controller with a big screen in it, so unless their games are really good and the big screen actually improves the games, then it's not much of an incentive to get it. That's one of my 2 biggest issues with the basic design of the system. For ages the argument was that the Gamepad was designed with Nintendo's first party teams in mind, but as of yet there have been no major first party games that make an argument for why it was worth including in the box. Yes, there's stuff like Nintendoland and Wii Party U that rely on it, but that basically puts the Gamepad in the same category as Kinect where it's necessary for specialized software but does very little to improve more traditional games. If they expected that to be worth sacrificing significant hardware power for in the eyes of the  Core Gamer they're trying to reclaim then they were way off the mark.My other issue is their absolute insistence that the system be designed to be small and super low power draw over anything else. I have no idea what kind of consumer the couple of dollars a year off the power bill or the few inches of saved space is supposed to attract. I get that Japanese apartments are small and all, but I can't imagine that the size difference between, say, the Wii U and PS4 is an actual factor in which they purchase. That loving Sned posted:It sounds like they're trying to target people who don't want a PS4 or Xbox One for whatever reason, although considering the PS4 isn't that much more expensive than it, doesn't really give the Wii U much of a niche. They definitely are. There's no way they were positioning the Wii U as a second console like the Wii was because there was no chance in hell of that catching on at $300-$350. That's primary console money for the vast majority of consumers. The Wii at $250 was basically as expensive as that kind of strategy is viable, and even that only flew because it was a cultural phenomenon those first couple of years before it dropped to $200 (which is probably the sweet spot for a box that gets pulled out 1-2 times a year for Nintendo's big games and nothing else).
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Nov 7, 2013 12:36
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The wii also came out against a PS3 that had almost nothing, and an Xbox 360, while out for a year, still had almost nothing (Gears of War I think was the biggest thing at the time) Now we're getting Xbox One and PS4 with mega franchises as COD: Ghosts, Battlefield 4, and even some stuff that's probably going to sell well like Forza 5 and NFS: Rivals. Don't forget we're supposed to have Minecraft on the next gen, but not the Wii-U. The original Wii still had some good stuff to justify the $250 price tag, but the Wii-U isn't as good stacked up against this new gen, even with the extra year's head start.
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Nov 7, 2013 12:42
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What's kind of sad/funny is Minecraft is just about the only game where I feel like the second screen would be a slam dunk.
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Nov 7, 2013 13:33
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AdmiralViscen posted:What's kind of sad/funny is Minecraft is just about the only game where I feel like the second screen would be a slam dunk. It's also the biggest thing on Earth right now for the exact demographic that Nintendo thrives on. I was pretty shocked at how into Minecraft my young cousins and their friends are.
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Nov 7, 2013 13:37
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Crowbear posted:My other issue is their absolute insistence that the system be designed to be small and super low power draw over anything else. I have no idea what kind of consumer the couple of dollars a year off the power bill or the few inches of saved space is supposed to attract. The power draw is exceptionally low -- it's quoted as <40W in any situation and gets tested at 32W in game, whereas even the latest, most efficient PS3 (Super Slim 12GB) is more like 70W in game. The PS4/XBone are probably going to be >100W. I really like it as an idea, but it won't make me buy it over the competition. It's clearly a decision that was made very early on in the design process and has resulted in a pretty compromised console. Feels like quite a Nintendo choice as well, some individual right at the top making a unilateral design choice and everyone else tasked with fitting the rest of the pieces. Ineffiable posted:The original Wii still had some good stuff to justify the $250 price tag, but the Wii-U isn't as good stacked up against this new gen, even with the extra year's head start. Looks like the Wii had ~180 games out by the end of 2007 (ie just over a year after launch) in the US. Wii U by the end of this year is looking like ~90 games. There was a lot of shovelware and straight up bad games for the Wii especially early on, but it still feels like the original had more going for it at this point.
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Nov 7, 2013 13:49
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Edmund Honda posted:The power draw is exceptionally low -- it's quoted as <40W in any situation and gets tested at 32W in game, whereas even the latest, most efficient PS3 (Super Slim 12GB) is more like 70W in game. The PS4/XBone are probably going to be >100W. Ok, so doing some quick napkin math assuming a 70W difference, using the average US price of $0.12 per kWh, and assuming that you use your console for 4 hours a day, 31 days a month, you end up saving $1.04 every month. Huzzah!
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Nov 7, 2013 14:06
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Crowbear posted:It's also the biggest thing on Earth right now for the exact demographic that Nintendo thrives on. I was pretty shocked at how into Minecraft my young cousins and their friends are. Sony's now going to have Minecraft for the PS3, PS4, and the Vita (and that's not the awful Pocket Edition either), so Nintendo not doing the same just shows they don't really understand the Western market. Is Minecraft popular over in Japan too? They're trying to sell us a console with games like Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Bayonetta 2, but those just don't have the mass appeal that sell systems to regular people.
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Nov 7, 2013 14:09
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That loving Sned posted:Is Minecraft popular over in Japan too? They're trying to sell us a console with games like Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Bayonetta 2, but those just don't have the mass appeal that sell systems to regular people. I have no idea how reliable this is but it and other quick Google results point to yes. Looking it up just now, the 360 version of Minecraft alone had sold 8 million copies as of August. And that's on top of the tens of millions of PC copies that have been sold 
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Nov 7, 2013 14:22
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I feel like these days, criticizing the WiiU for not playing DVDs is like criticizing the Gamecube for not playing VHS tapes. WiiU can do netflix, hulu and youtube, and that's all your average consumer expects it to do. The WiiU has a lot of problems, but not playing DVDs in loving 2013 when DVD sales are in the toilet, and all the big rental chains have gone under is not one of them. This is actually a stupid thing to argue. Like really, really stupid. Most consumer level notebook computers don't even play DVDs now. Criticize the WiiU because it doesn't have any good games that people want to play.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:10
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Well, it's an odd exception because it has a disc drive. Low end netbooks don't have a DVD drive at all to save money (and space) and so people don't really expect that. DVD sales aren't really going away even with the dawn of streaming and it's odd you say that. This stuff is really on top of the lack of games.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:35
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No one's criticizing the Wii U for not playing DVDs. The Wii not playing DVDs was a pretty hysterical omission though.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:44
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Equilibrium posted:No one's criticizing the Wii U for not playing DVDs. The Wii not playing DVDs was a pretty hysterical omission though. There are a few important things about DVD and Blu-ray playback that a lot of people are forgetting: there are a ton of patent and compliance issues associated with making players for these formats. They both rely heavily on encryption technology which you have to pay royalties for, and these get pricey and, in Nintendo's case, directly pay your competitors. For example, you can get a Blu-ray drive for a PC for about $20 easily, but the Blu-ray playback software is at least $50. You also increasing the use cases for the drive on the system, and wearing it down by using it for a task you already have several other devices for, which is especially important on an already-complex drive that can grab regular Wii discs as well as Gamecube mini discs. Making the PS2 capable of playing DVD's made a ridiculous amount of sense, and they sold tons of units based on that feature alone, but by the time the Wii was out DVD wasn't really that important.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:54
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RagnarokAngel posted:Well, it's an odd exception because it has a disc drive. Low end netbooks don't have a DVD drive at all to save money (and space) and so people don't really expect that. DVD sales aren't really going away even with the dawn of streaming and it's odd you say that. This stuff is really on top of the lack of games. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/may/03/film-industry-turmoil-as-dvd-sales-drop http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1270704/DVD-sales-decline-likely-die-internet-Digiboxes-over.html http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/dvd-sales-fizzle-amid-digital-download-blu-ray-boom/ http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/09/dvds-are-dying-and-theres-worse-news-ahead-for-hollywood/ http://www.ask.com/question/dvd-market-trends-what-are-the-key-dynamics-driving-the-decline-in-dvd-sales Physical media is on the way out, man. Those are all from the first page after googling "DVD sales trends." I don't know how you can say DVD sales aren't really going away. People who are aficionados buy Blu-rays and your average consumer buys poo poo on iTunes or streams it on Netflix or whatever. The local salvation army won't even take my old DVDs because they can't sell them. *Edit*VVV Yeah, that was a brilliant move on Sony's part, but even if you want to watch DVDs nowadays, a DVD player is like twenty bones at Wal-Mart. It's not the deciding factor it was in 2001. Most people who are not nerds who post on an internet forum (IE: Us) don't know how to use bit torrent, and will be happy with a box that stream netflix and whatnot. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 16:04
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Also the gamecube, same deal. The PS2 being a dvd player was awesome and resulted in it being used by my whole family. Though I think the PS4 not being a dlna client is also pretty absurd.
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Nov 7, 2013 16:06
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Crowbear posted:Or, to use a pretty picture: Can I see what this looks like if we insert a GTX780ti on the far right? Also what does 1 compute mean?
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Nov 7, 2013 16:14
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Buffer posted:Can I see what this looks like if we insert a GTX780ti on the far right? I didn't make the graph so I can't help you there, sorry. Needless to say it would be very very tall. Buffer posted:Also what does 1 compute mean? All the bars are scaled so 1 is whatever the Wii U can do in that category. So 4 compute is 4x what the Wii U's theoretical max compute is.
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Nov 7, 2013 16:21
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