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Miltank posted:There was never a large number of Protestants in Spain so the effectiveness of the Inquisition is merely speculation. Yeah, Protestants appeared in large numbers seemingly everywhere else other than Portugal, Spain and Italy but I'm sure it had nothing to do with the Inquisition. Maybe it was the mediterranean weather. e: Anyway, I've derailed the thread more than I intended to already. I'll take it to the Inquisition megathread. 
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Nov 6, 2013 01:43
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MeLKoR posted:Yeah, Protestants appeared in large numbers seemingly everywhere else other than Portugal, Spain and Italy but I'm sure it had nothing to do with the Inquisition. Maybe it was the mediterranean weather. Edit: but yes, this whole conversation is dumb. Authoritarian responses to authoritarianism doesnt wipe out authoritarianism. Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 02:55
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Berke Negri posted:Edit: but yes, this whole conversation is dumb. Authoritarian responses to authoritarianism doesnt wipe out authoritarianism. They can, however, switch it around a bit. Gotta keep your nightmarish totalitarian regimes fashionable, no?
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Nov 6, 2013 04:07
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Darth Walrus posted:They can, however, switch it around a bit. Gotta keep your nightmarish totalitarian regimes fashionable, no? Nazis were nothing if not fashionable. ...Except the skulls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
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Nov 6, 2013 04:14
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Returning to Greecechat, what exactly was it that went wrong there? I've seen a lot of blaming of neoliberalism, which makes sense with the EU-imposed austerity measures, but there seemed to be problems before that which those measures were a (cack-handed) attempt to address, and those I don't have much working knowledge about. So why is the country such a shambles that literal Nazis are a tempting option for the electorate?
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Nov 7, 2013 19:33
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Darth Walrus posted:Returning to Greecechat, what exactly was it that went wrong there? I've seen a lot of blaming of neoliberalism, which makes sense with the EU-imposed austerity measures, but there seemed to be problems before that which those measures were a (cack-handed) attempt to address, and those I don't have much working knowledge about. So why is the country such a shambles that literal Nazis are a tempting option for the electorate? A very short answer: the EU/Eurozone structures took enough state sovereignty from the member states that solutions to problems were no longer available (such as devaluation as a response to an untenable debt), but not enough for populist nationalism to really flare up with a "LOSING OUR NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY ;_;"/NWOish kinda poo poo reaction, which did not allow for other solutions to those problems to be available (such as an ECB that can actually print money or wealth transfers from richer member states to poorer ones). There's plenty long effortposts and discussion in the Eurozone drama thread if you're want to look for something more detailed as to the problems that caused the Eurozone crisis. The Portuguese posters there are especially active.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:09
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Darth Walrus posted:Returning to Greecechat, what exactly was it that went wrong there? I've seen a lot of blaming of neoliberalism, which makes sense with the EU-imposed austerity measures, but there seemed to be problems before that which those measures were a (cack-handed) attempt to address, and those I don't have much working knowledge about. So why is the country such a shambles that literal Nazis are a tempting option for the electorate? Because Greeks were always Nazis! For a more serious answer, Golden Dawn went from 0.13% to 7% during the last elections due to actively hunting for voters. They did everything they could do in order to accumulate as many political minorities as possible under one banner. The ranks of GD contain voters that are, in no particular order: Pro-Hitler Nationalists, Greek Nationalists, Greek Supremacists, Fascists, Right-wing voters that were in disagreement with the other right-wing parties, Anti-communists/anarchists, undecided voters that were fed up with taxes/immigration/whatever, voters of other parties that were promised/given favours (usually employment) that are now withdrawn, people who didn't normally vote and like the "aggressive" approach of GD. I am sure there are way more "categories", but those are the ones I can think of right now. This "merging" as well as their reluctance to answer political questions in a correct manner made them the ideal choice for voters who do not really have an active interest in politics and only want "Whatever is good for the country". GD's answers are always straightforward, put in layman's terms and use abusive vocabulary. For example, they do state that they will remove all immigrants (illegals or not) within 2 months if elected, but they do not disclosure how they will move all this population. People vote for them because they like what they hear, while being unwilling to bother with the details. It is my opinion that if GD gets the lion's share on the next elections (which is impossible), they will be unable to govern due to the vast and conflicting plans they advertised (or worse, plans who the voters think were advertised).
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Nov 7, 2013 21:55
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Grouchy Smurf posted:It is my opinion that if GD gets the lion's share on the next elections (which is impossible), they will be unable to govern due to the vast and conflicting plans they advertised (or worse, plans who the voters think were advertised). They would be able to govern fine because they'd fall back on the old fascist tactic of allying with the old elites and destroying all other factions in the name of party unity. After they were done with destroying the left, that is.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:02
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Cerebral Bore posted:They would be able to govern fine because they'd fall back on the old fascist tactic of allying with the old elites and destroying all other factions in the name of party unity. After they were done with destroying the left, that is. Well, they won't assuming that we still have a parliament. Their MPs will disagree on almost everything. No Greek nationalist will take allow Pro-Hitler celebrations to take place.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:08
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Grouchy Smurf posted:Well, they won't assuming that we still have a parliament. That's a big assumption if a fascist party is popular enough to actually outright win an election. Because if they do that's typically the last election that will matter for a long time.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:21
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Vicious in-fighting in fascist parties isn't exactly new, since its creation as an ideology fascism has always been so nebulous that it goes with the brand. Look at the factions in the original Italian fascists, or the account of the development of Nazi ideology in Neumann's Behemoth. The key is that when they're in power, fascists no longer have to depend on the people who originally helped put them there, let alone fulfil whatever particular demands they may have had.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:23
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Zohar posted:Vicious in-fighting in fascist parties isn't exactly new, since its creation as an ideology fascism has always been so nebulous that it goes with the brand. Look at the factions in the original Italian fascists, or the account of the development of Nazi ideology in Neumann's Behemoth. The key is that when they're in power, fascists no longer have to depend on the people who originally helped put them there, let alone fulfil whatever particular demands they may have had. That's not exactly unique to fascism, but yes. Generally once a single movement has consolidated the majority of power/support it's not uncommon for it turn on previous allies and neutral parties. A great example for fascism being the Night of the Long Knives.
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Nov 8, 2013 02:11
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Darth Walrus posted:Returning to Greecechat, what exactly was it that went wrong there? I've seen a lot of blaming of neoliberalism, which makes sense with the EU-imposed austerity measures, but there seemed to be problems before that which those measures were a (cack-handed) attempt to address, and those I don't have much working knowledge about. So why is the country such a shambles that literal Nazis are a tempting option for the electorate? The euro should have never come about as it is, and secondly Greece never should have been a part of the EU. Also, Germans are assholes.
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Nov 9, 2013 21:23
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One of the problems with the Eurozone is that there's no redistributive mechanisms from centre to periphery. When the superior infrastructure in Germany allows German industries to outperform Greek industries, and with all protectionist trade barriers down, Greek industry goes under. When this happens inside any other single currency area, ie inside a country, the central government will tax the more successful region and use that to fund social services and infrastructure in the poorer region. Since this doesn't happen in the Eurozone the poor region just gets poorer. Even the lowered wages won't attract back industry because there are lower wages elsewhere.
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Nov 10, 2013 05:05
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Emden posted:How convenient that all my woes are my own fault but when it comes to non-white people it's the system. That MY intelligence relates to MY employment, but non-whites' intelligence does not relate to their employment. Also I only wear my uniform as a conversation starter. Ladies love the Iron Cross. you know what? I like you! The forums need an alternative voice for healthy debates!  I invite you to the Race thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3566520 BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 10:06
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Race Realism
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Nov 11, 2013 13:56
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Race Realists posted:you know what?
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Nov 11, 2013 14:27
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Y-Hat posted:I don't like your username. It sounds very... racist. It's not racist if it's true!  
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Nov 11, 2013 18:26
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That's an interesting position. Care to elaborate? Let's say it was, in fact, true that some ethnicity (let's say Scandinavians, for argument's sake) had a generally lower IQ than others. Would discrimination of this ethnicity be not-racist because what the people claiming as grounds for their discrimination was real?
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Nov 11, 2013 20:06
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V. Illych L. posted:That's an interesting position. Care to elaborate? The emotes suggested they were joking.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:20
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Yes, I noticed. I think it's still interesting.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:20
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Even if a group did have a lower IQ (and even if we're taking IQ seriously), it wouldn't mean that each individual member of that group has a lower IQ than any given individual member of the other group(s) and thus discrimination would not achieve the goal of increasing the IQ of your workers or whatever. Basically racist discrimination, even if it was founded in genuine inferiority, would be a failure because it applies collective statistics to individual people.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:24
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Y-Hat posted:I don't like your username. It sounds very... racist. people never make ironic usernames BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 00:58
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Meanwhile in Poland... As every year since two years ago, as a part of celebrations of the Independence Day, the nationalists organized their own march. As always, they went totally apeshit. They managed to attack a squat, burned down several cars, a rainbow monument and a police sentry box near the Russian embassy, before the authorities of Warsaw disbanded the demonstration. It's funny, because two years ago, when the March of Independence was organized, there was a regular fight of the nationalists with Antifa. liberal media criticized it heavily, painting leftists as just another violent group, not better than the fascists. Since then, the left stopped using violence, but the excesses of the nationalists didn't stop at all.
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Nov 12, 2013 08:42
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Gantolandon posted:Meanwhile in Poland... There really wasn't "a regular fight of the nationalists with Antifa" - two years ago, that is. I was there and holy gently caress was that "symmetry" picture the media painted bullshit. There were a couple thousand of us at the "blockade", most of us scrawny lefty intelligentsia like myself, and a ring of maybe one or two hundred antifa dudes. There was no regular fighting, the nationalist thugs outnumbered the antifascists by like 50:1 so a street battle would have been a slaughter. We were blocked off from the fash by lines of riot cops, and antifa was basically the defense-in-depth for when those assholes tried to break through. Once the demonstration was officially disbanded, we had to hurry around the city because fighting squads of masked fascists were hunting down "communists". Meanwhile, my favorite highlight from this year is Glorious Leader's speech, where he praised his patriotic legion of semi-literate football hooligans for having burned down "a symbol of the degeneracy and decline of civilization that has been infiltrating our nation". Meaning the rainbow. Here's a movie of the failed attack on the squat, note the beautiful Nazis vs Sapling battle scene (the sapling wins). And of course they're already spinning a version where this is a "provocation by the cops and antifa" against the poor, innocent movement of non-violent patriots 
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Nov 12, 2013 09:19
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Poland is the unsung hero of this thread. If even we can overcome our troubled history and embrace fascism and nationalism as the one true way, who can say that it can't happen in their country? When the far right got their first foothold in the government 10 years ago they were a nuisance and the butt of many jokes, since then they didn't repeat their success in the parliament, but boy have they grown outside of it... Look how far (right) we have come! Organized fascist militias take the duty of protecting nationalist demonstrations from the hands of the police and brownshirts march with torches singing happy songs about killing commies. I was a witness to one such march last year (supposedly in remembrance of Polish resistance soldiers who didn't stop fighting Russians after 1945) and I had flashbacks to Riefenstahl's finest productions.
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Nov 12, 2013 12:28
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Pierogi posted:Poland is the unsung hero of this thread. If even we can overcome our troubled history and embrace fascism and nationalism as the one true way, who can say that it can't happen in their country? That is dedication to Poe's Law right there.
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Nov 12, 2013 12:47
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Pierogi posted:Poland is the unsung hero of this thread. If even we can overcome our troubled history and embrace fascism and nationalism as the one true way, who can say that it can't happen in their country? Oh yeah, the whole cult of the "unsung heroes" is hilarious. I think the reason they're so obsessed with anti-communist partisans is that they see themselves as the same thing, fighting communism in 2013. What's lost on them is A) the difference between still fighting the Soviets after they won and still fighting the Soviets after they ceased to exist, and B) that they're more like those Japanese soldiers still hiding in jungles in the 60's. Also now the communists are apparently gay or something.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:06
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Enjoy posted:One of the problems with the Eurozone is that there's no redistributive mechanisms from centre to periphery. When the superior infrastructure in Germany allows German industries to outperform Greek industries, and with all protectionist trade barriers down, Greek industry goes under. When this happens inside any other single currency area, ie inside a country, the central government will tax the more successful region and use that to fund social services and infrastructure in the poorer region. Since this doesn't happen in the Eurozone the poor region just gets poorer. Even the lowered wages won't attract back industry because there are lower wages elsewhere. There kinda is though  Compare to the US. Anyway there's just no European cultural identity to support it on a larger scale. People are German or French or Spanish or whatever first and foremost. Not European. Beyond that faith in the EU project is pretty limited so getting people to send off 10-15% of GDP is simply not going to happen. If the Euro can't work without it we should just get rid of it now because there is no political path that leads to Germany, the UK or Scandinavia sending that much to the South or Eastern Europe and it's not like France, Spain or Italy could even hope to do it at this point.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:40
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There wasn't a real expose on Polish nationalists in this thread. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves:      Lots of guys ordering 5 beers for their pals as you can see.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:13
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The irony of a bunch of Polish nationalists doing the Nazi salute (of the same Nazis that invaded their country and killed millions of their civilians and expelled many of them from their homes, after which the Poles expelled Germans from everywhere east of the Oder-Neisse line) might just make my head explode.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:26
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:The irony of a bunch of Polish nationalists doing the Nazi salute [...] Why then the Hitler-Jugend knockoff uniforms you ask? Well a patriot should look neat and good fashion is universal.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:47
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As a Pole, this makes me really angry. loving nazis, the lot. I swear, I kinda want to sleep with a dude now, just to spite these assholes. They seem to be gaining traction every year too. I just found one of my buddies went to that march.  quote:Why then the Hitler-Jugend knockoff uniforms you ask? Well a patriot should look neat and good fashion is universal. Hey buddy I got some wicked sick Hugo Boss textiles for you right here dex_sda fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 14:48
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Pope Guilty posted:That is dedication to Poe's Law right there. dex_sda posted:Hey buddy I got some wicked sick Hugo Boss textiles for you right here 
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Nov 12, 2013 14:59
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Pierogi posted:I haven't gone too far, have I? Nope, being Polish, I thought it was a hilarious way to satirize the way those people try to rationalize their hateful views. Out of curiosity, do you live in Warsaw? I was thankfully spared the atrocity that the march in the capital was, since I don't live there.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:08
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dex_sda posted:Out of curiosity, do you live in Warsaw? I was thankfully spared the atrocity that the march in the capital was, since I don't live there.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:20
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Anosmoman posted:
Well there's one way to solve that problem.
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Nov 12, 2013 15:21
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computer parts posted:Well there's one way to solve that problem. I cannot even begin to describe how wrong this post is if it's even serious. It's like an onion of errors, the more I think about it the more absurdities immediately present themselves.
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Nov 12, 2013 18:05
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V. Illych L. posted:I cannot even begin to describe how wrong this post is if it's even serious. It's like an onion of errors, the more I think about it the more absurdities immediately present themselves. It's called a joke (The EU more resembles the Articles of Confederation US than a Constitutional US anyway).
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Nov 12, 2013 18:10
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I actually meant to include a caveat for that, but I must have forgotten. I am too tired to think today, sorry.
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Nov 12, 2013 18:15
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