|
Fulchrum posted:So at the same time that he said the relase of the Ps4 and Xbox One would help the Wii U, Iwata claimed that high prices for digital content is better for the consumer, as it makes them appreciate the games more. Nintendo seems to think that greed and manipulation are the best business strategies. But they're never in a company's best long term interests. Using cheap rear end hardware, trickling Virtual console releases in an attempt to make people buy every old game that comes out, and keeping new games overpriced for years doesn't inspire brand loyalty or positive word of mouth. What is wrong with a sincere effort to make the console as attractive as possible?
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 04:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 09:52 |
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:...and keeping new games overpriced for years Considering we constantly have to deal with poo poo from other companies like withheld content as future paid DLC, $10 online passes, and pre-order bonuses just to get the full experience on an average B level game, I don't mind paying retail price for a Nintendo AAA title.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 05:35
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:Nintendo seems to think that greed and manipulation are the best business strategies. But they're never in a company's best long term interests. Using cheap rear end hardware, trickling Virtual console releases in an attempt to make people buy every old game that comes out, and keeping new games overpriced for years doesn't inspire brand loyalty or positive word of mouth. What is wrong with a sincere effort to make the console as attractive as possible? The pricing for Nintendo games stays high for a variety of reasons. For one, they tend to sell at that price. Another is that they don't engage in price protection with sellers and in turn the sellers are less likely to drop the price on their own because it means a more significant loss for them, especially because the games do sell at that price. And you're absolutely being ridiculous if you're trying to argue that Nintendo is using 'greed and manipulation" but the other console developers are making 'sincere efforts.' They're also using their kinds of manipulation. X-Box Live is a big shining beacon of that, for example. Playstation Plus is marginally better for the consumer but a lot of others things Sony does are manipulative attempts to make people buy their consoles and games at the highest price possible. That is how companies work. Sony is also trickling out PS1 and PS2 Classic releases in an effort to make people buy old games. Microsoft locks already paid services like Netflix behind barriers. Nintendo is doing a lot of things wrong but every company under the sun is focused on maximum profits at minimum cost. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Nov 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 05:43
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:SO atth esame time that he said the relase of the Ps4 and Xbox One would help the Wii U, Iwata claimed that high prices for digital content is better for the consumer, as it makes them appreciate the games more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 05:47
|
|
|
I don't know about Wii/Wii U games but I can say I am amazed Nintendo can get away with charging so much for 3DS games and still be a big success.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 05:49
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:Nintendo seems to think that greed and manipulation are the best business strategies. But they're never in a company's best long term interests.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:And you're absolutely being ridiculous if you're trying to argue that Nintendo is using 'greed and manipulation" but the other console developers are making 'sincere efforts.' To some extent Sony is. While everything they do is ultimately manipulating the public into giving them as much money as possible (do I really have to add this obvious a qualifier to my argument?), their techniques for sustaining their popularity are a lot less myopic and out of touch than Nintendo's. The Vita and PS4 were specifically designed to suit the needs of developers, with developers being consulted in the decision making process. That's one example of Sony being prepared to let the customer benefit because they can also see it benefiting themselves. Combine that with a steady stream of releases from their back catalogue, a user account system that gives the customer piece of mind, lower digital distribution prices compared to retail, and capable hardware and infrastructure, and Nintendo comes off as relatively exploitive and unwilling to revise their thinking on short term profits for the sake of a higher quality product. I am in no way calling Sony a paragon of ethics, not even close (they use horizontal product tying for one thing), but their strategies are a lot more pro-consumer in some key areas.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
AgentJotun posted:I don't know about Wii/Wii U games but I can say I am amazed Nintendo can get away with charging so much for 3DS games and still be a big success. I don't know, for the most part the 3DS games seem to be worth what they charge. I've gotten lots of entertainment out of games like VLR, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem and Pokemon, worth $40 each.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:I am in no way calling Sony a paragon of ethics, not even close (they use horizontal product tying for one thing), but their strategies are a lot more pro-consumer in some key areas. On the other hand they're still doing lots of other anti-consumer things which Nintendo or Microsoft aren't, and Nintedo and Microsoft are doing things which I consider pro-consumer that Sony isn't. I've got my PS4 preordered and I think PSN+ is a pretty good deal for what it is, but in this case it's coming down more to what flavor of poo poo you want to swallow more than any particular one being very good. If Sony's at the head of the pack, they're still the coldest person in hell. If you're seriously arguing that any one corporation has your interests at heart in any sincere way, you're wrong. If Sony thought they could do what Nintendo does sales-wise and make more of a profit of it, they would in a heartbeat. Hell, that's part of why we got the PS3 being what it was at the start. Sony was so sure that their name recognition and power was so strong they could do whatever they wanted that they almost killed the PS3 in the crib. Sony does what they do because it benefits them. At best it happens to benefit the consumer as well. That doesn't mean agree with it but I don't think anyone here should be seriously arguing that any major console (or PC) developer or publisher is doing anything sincerely. I do think Nintendo isn't doing everything they could to make a worthwhile experience for the consumer AND a profitable experience for them, don't get me wrong. (Account system in giant glowing neon letters.) I just don't find it any more manipulative or anti-consumer than Sony or Microsoft's offerings. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:09
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:On the other hand they're still doing lots of other anti-consumer things which Nintendo or Microsoft aren't, and Nintedo and Microsoft are doing things which I consider pro-consumer that Sony isn't. I've got my PS4 preordered and I think PSN+ is a pretty good deal for what it is, but in this case it's coming down more to what flavor of poo poo you want to swallow more than any particular one being very good. If Sony's at the head of the pack, they're still the coldest person in hell. I did say quote:everything they do is ultimately manipulating the public into giving them as much money as possible Just because Sony recognises in some ways that putting real effort into creating a quality product makes the consumer happy, that doesn't mean they're doing it out of charity.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:41
|
|
|
Mr.Unique-Name posted:I don't know, for the most part the 3DS games seem to be worth what they charge. I've gotten lots of entertainment out of games like VLR, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem and Pokemon, worth $40 each. I agree. I even feel like some first party 3DS games should be even more pricey - these games are more than worth the money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:... but in this case it's coming down more to what flavor of poo poo you want to swallow more than any particular one being very good. So true... So how would you like your online play this generation, behind a paywall or nonexistent?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:53
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:So true... So how would you like your online play this generation, behind a paywall or nonexistent? Aside from the much lower player populations, people can play Call of Duty just fine on the WiiU. I can attest to Injustice being comparable in performance to the other versions, and there's also Monster Hunter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
That is one thing that annoys me as poo poo, I'll never play online again because I don't play online enough in the first place, ergo it's not worth buying any online service. Any game I'm likely to buy for online anyways will likely come to the PC so I guess I'll just steam it. At least Nintendo's not locking me out of playing Mario Kart Wii U with all the hackers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 07:05
|
|
|
EDIT: poo poo, wrong thread.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 07:13
|
|
|
The trick is, don't buy a PS4, and continue to buy games for the PS3.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 17:12
|
|
|
VeggieSmuggler posted:I agree. I even feel like some first party 3DS games should be even more pricey - these games are more than worth the money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 19:58
|
|
|
deadwing posted:Just today you were arguing that games developed with the Xbone/PS4 in mind will not come to the Wii U. Project CARS started out as a PC game, which are designed to be scalable to different hardware configurations. No PC game is going to require 5 GB of GDDR5 RAM for at least a few years. They probably originally intended to have the PC version, and then one build that would be ported to the 360, PS3, and Wii U, but instead chose to keep the Wii U version while porting a more advanced version to the PS4 and Xbox One. Racing games should be quite easy to scale, since each car has multiple levels of detail, and they can reduce the number of cars in a race too. Besides, I don't think a cross-generation game released just a few months after the consoles launch is the best example to prove that the Wii U is fully capable of running anything the PS4 and Xbox One can.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 21:16
|
|
|
Surlaw posted:This has come up in a few different threads and it's still a really weird thing to say. I like my 3DS a lot and I've never looked at it and said "man, I wish I'd paid more for this."
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:Project CARS started out as a PC game, which are designed to be scalable to different hardware configurations. No PC game is going to require 5 GB of GDDR5 RAM for at least a few years. Sooner than that. Assassins Creed 4 recommends 4 gigs and Watch Dogs is probably going to recommend 4+. Once developers no longer have to worry about squeezing everything into less-than 512 megs of RAM requirements will shoot up dramatically. EDIT: The new Call of Duty requires 6 gigs and recommends 8. The_Franz fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:14
|
|
|
Nintendo is still doing the same advertising push that they did earlier this year, that they did last year, that they seem stubborn to ever change. Only advertising on kids television networks. Ad for Mario 3D World on Cartoon Network today. Zero ads during all three of last night's heavily-watched football games. Saw multiple PS4 and Xbox One ads. One Xbox One ad specifically highlighted how the system's multi-app OS is useful for fantasy football owners and watching the game. Zero Wii U ads. Don't really know what Nintendo is expecting this holiday. It can't possibly be making money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
The_Franz posted:Sooner than that. Assassins Creed 4 recommends 4 gigs and Watch Dogs is probably going to recommend 4+. Once developers no longer have to worry about squeezing everything into less-than 512 megs of RAM requirements will shoot up dramatically. Yeah, now that consoles that aren't 8 years old are coming out, system requirements are going to shoot up very, very quickly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Nintendo is still doing the same advertising push that they did earlier this year, that they did last year, that they seem stubborn to ever change. Only advertising on kids television networks. Ad for Mario 3D World on Cartoon Network today. Zero ads during all three of last night's heavily-watched football games. According to Iwata, the new consoles are going to be good for the Wii U! All the people flooding in to the shopping centres on Black Friday might catch a glimpse of the Wii U section tucked away in the corner.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 22:43
|
|
|
The_Franz posted:The new Call of Duty requires 6 gigs and recommends 8. Haha what. That's the funniest thing I've read all day
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
The new Call of Duty won't run without 6gb of ram, and it only uses 1.5 It's literally "MORE = BETTER" marketing poo poo taken to some kind of bizarro-world extreme.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
Most console to PC ports are horrible garbage. Devs will just have the game eat 4x the memory that's actually necessary because why bother optimizing it. This will probably be much less of a problem with the PC architecture of the new consoles, though, which just means Infinity Ward is incompetent.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 23:31
|
|
|
Surlaw posted:This has come up in a few different threads and it's still a really weird thing to say. I like my 3DS a lot and I've never looked at it and said "man, I wish I'd paid more for this." Yeah... almost always when people have suggestions for how to make a company better, it involves giving them less money. "Here's how to save Nintendo, put all VC games on the eShop for $1, make the system cheaper at $200, and make all games $40!" Quest For Glory II posted:Nintendo is still doing the same advertising push that they did earlier this year, that they did last year, that they seem stubborn to ever change. Only advertising on kids television networks. Ad for Mario 3D World on Cartoon Network today. Zero ads during all three of last night's heavily-watched football games. It's almost like they are targeting different demographics... Astro7x fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2013 23:57
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:It's almost like they are targeting different demographics... Do you really think no one watching football has ever played a Nintendo system in their lifetime? How about anyone watching primetime television? Do you think none of them have kids? Or a family? The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:07
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Most console to PC ports are horrible garbage. Devs will just have the game eat 4x the memory that's actually necessary because why bother optimizing it. This will probably be much less of a problem with the PC architecture of the new consoles, though, which just means Infinity Ward is incompetent. Or, they use more memory because it lets them do things like load higher resolution textures and cache things for a smoother experience and faster load times. It's not 1992 anymore and memory is cheap and plentiful. Optimizing means keeping as much data in memory as possible so the next time you need it it's right there instead of having to wait for it to load from a potentially slow disk.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:It's almost like they are targeting different demographics... I'm a manchild and watch Cartoon Network constantly. I've not seen many WiiU ads, and the Mario 3d World ones focus on it being multiplayer and a 3d Mario game. They seem weird to me and don't make me that excited.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Most console to PC ports are horrible garbage. Devs will just have the game eat 4x the memory that's actually necessary because why bother optimizing it. This will probably be much less of a problem with the PC architecture of the new consoles, though, which just means Infinity Ward is incompetent. Astro7x posted:
Wasper fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:11
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:It's almost like they are targeting different demographics... Nintendo is for babies
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:14
|
|
|
So Nintendo isn't advertising on channels adults watch. How do you account for this?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:It's almost like they are targeting different demographics... What's the American TV channel for people trapped in the early '90s? Nintendo should advertise there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:What's the American TV channel for people trapped in the early '90s? Doesn't Nick at Nite show Fresh Prince of Bellaire and Full House now? God, that makes me feel old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:21
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Yeah... almost always when people have suggestions for how to make a company better, it involves giving them less money. "Here's how to save Nintendo, put all VC games on the eShop for $1, make the system cheaper at $200, and make all games $40!" It's more important to get people to buy Wii U's right now than to gouge them for money with lovely virtual console pricing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:25
|
|
|
They should put all their VC games on the eShop. A little lovely that the catalog didn't carry over from the Wii.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:They're not, though. Nintendo is just as much about pandering to nostalgia as they are about being family friendly. Mario 3D World is full of callbacks to older Mario games, including a level based on the original SNES Mario Kart. They've played to both sides of the aisle in designing the system and its games. But they have not with their advertising, and they have gained nothing out of only promoting the Wii U to children, whose parents are completely in the dark about what Wii U is. They should be advertising to the people who actually will be spending money on the system. I don't think that football fans don't like Nintendo games. But I work in video production and advertising so I am very familiar with just how loving expensive media buys can be for commercials. When you don't necessarily have to worry about your advertising budget being higher than the revenue you take in like Microsoft, you can go hog wild and buy prime time advertising on the highest rated shows aimed towards the most key demographics. Especially on highly rated programming like live sports, that can charge a premium because their audience is more captivated and don't time shift and skip commercials. I've seen so many clients have to settle for just doing web based advertising because they can't afford the media buy for a commercial. I licensed a background music track for a client the other week. A 6 week region run on some basic cable stations cost $15,000, for just the music! So when I see people say "Why don't I see commercials on every channel all the time!" I don't think they understand that it's not the best financial decision financially to do that. You also don't advertise to the person that buys the product, you advertise to the person you are selling it to. You don't put the kids cereals at the adult's eye line in the grocery store, you put it down where they can see it and they ask mom and dad to buy it for them. When Mario Kart 7 came out my boss asked me about it because his kid saw the commercial and wanted it, then he asked me if he needed a 3DS or if it was for the regular DS. And then he bought it, and he didn't even see the commercial. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 01:12
|
|
|
And how's that working for the Wii U so far? That's okay though, when the system finishes its disasterous run they can just come out and say "it's not our fault, advertising is so gosh darn expensive" and everyone will understand. It's like that old phrase, you gotta not spend money to... hope things magically work out somehow. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Nov 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 01:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 09:52 |
|
|
Astro7x posted:I've seen so many clients have to settle for just doing web based advertising because they can't afford the media buy for a commercial. I licensed a background music track for a client the other week. A 6 week region run on some basic cable stations cost $15,000, for just the music! So when I see people say "Why don't I see commercials on every channel all the time!" I don't think they understand that it's not the best financial decision financially to do that. There are still people who, one week before the PS4 comes out on the market, believe that the Wii U is an attachment to the Wii. Their advertising efforts suck. You can't spin out excuses about the costs of advertising in the same thread where some of the most ardent defenders of the Wii U have been more than happy to trot out Nintendo's Bag Of Infinite Money That Exists Somewhere. Sitting on all that money, both for securing games for the system, and for advertising that the thing exists, has done exactly zero favors for them. A little bit more aggression when it comes to securing advertising spots isn't going to hurt them any more than sitting on their hands and doing comparatively little next to their competition.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2013 01:37
|
|