|
Razorwired posted:I think the only other person to get their page deleted/pruned down was Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation because he tanked some game Fast Eddie did the AI for, specifically calling Ahab's work out as one of the worst parts of the experience. But of course it's back up by now. Kinda want to know what game this was. Also, the whole Jay O thing in this thread is really frightening. They have it outright written in the rules that there is no out clause for someone who wants their personal poo poo taken off the website? That's horrendously controlling and of course most Tropers are at the point where they just blithely say "Welp, them's the rules nothing we can do for you" rather than taking the time out to think for a second why the rule is bad and why treating a person the same way you treat a work of fiction is incredibly insensitive. I knew Tropers collectively have a hosed up moral compass, but I wasn't aware they basically can't distinguish reality from fiction. Dunno why that shocks me the way it does, but it does.
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 15:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:19 |
|
|
Yahtzee's page is a bit of an oddity, because there's not a lot of text on there compared to most Internet critics with his output (Doug Walker has like a dozen sub-pages, for Christ's sake), and almost none of the updates have to do with his content. Instead it's almost all tropers trying to riddle out his tastes in video games by scouring quotes from his previous videos, only to have them deleted immediately after for being natter or whatever. His Dethroning Moment of Suck page was like twelve scrolls deep before the site deleted them all, though. That page was a player.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 15:16
|
|
|
Hot drat, this thread exploded overnight. What the hell happened? [...] Oh. That's... actually a little less terrible than I was expecting. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 15:27
|
|
|
SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Also, the whole Jay O thing in this thread is really frightening. They have it outright written in the rules that there is no out clause for someone who wants their personal poo poo taken off the website? That's horrendously controlling and of course most Tropers are at the point where they just blithely say "Welp, them's the rules nothing we can do for you" rather than taking the time out to think for a second why the rule is bad and why treating a person the same way you treat a work of fiction is incredibly insensitive. Theoretically, what they have is a rule that you don't have authority over a page just because it's about your work. And theoretically, pages about real people are either supposed to have tropes pertaining to that person's work or how that person is portrayed in fiction and aren't supposed to be applying tropes to that person's personal life. It's just that, like a lot of their rules, their policy for the latter is to not enforce it until someone gets mad at them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
You know, I was looking at the comments about how they can't seem to distinguish talking about Jay O's personal life from talking about a fictional character and thinking, 'Welp, that's your garden variety objectification right there...' But actually I think it's weirder than that. Think of their mission statement on the home page:quote:We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be. Get that? You're not supposed to bash 'things'. Bashing people, though, is perfectly okay. Jay O would probably be getting more defenders if she was fictional.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 16:16
|
|
|
I'm a little skeeved out to say this, but I'm really surprised Jay O didn't ended up with a bunch of Tropers willing to White Knight her... (thank God for small favors) CobiWann fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 16:34
|
|
CobiWann posted:I'm a little skeeved out to say this, but I'm really surprised Jay O didn't get a bunch of Tropers to White Knight her... Nah, recently she's stopped being so gentle with her opinions - meaning she no longer expresses herself in a manner designed to coddle the feelings of easily offended fanboys - and this has resulted in many of the weirdo obsessives who once followed her around hoping she'd become their waifu abandoning her, usually because she was "mean" about Man of Steel or Legend of Korra. That's what it's about in most cases (that I've seen). Usually this means all she did was express herself plainly and say pretty much the exact same thing as any other TGWTG contributor, but she was their pure, gentle, opinion-validating fantasy object before, and now that she isn't doing the "well I don't like this but you do and you're right and I'm wrong sorry for saying anything guys" thing anymore, the crowd that would usually show up to white knight is turning on her. There are a few factors in play here but all you really have to do is see the kind of poo poo she winds up taking (and Lindsay Ellis and pretty much any other woman who contributes to the site who is plain-spoken and sincerely interested in actual criticism and not just fanboy pandering non-opinions) to see the innate sexism at work. If she were a dude nobody would come at her like this for simply saying why she didn't like some lovely superhero movie and explaining why. The TVTropes saga has been a strange one. I've never had details of my personal life listed on a website as "tropes" and editorialized about by creepy "fans" before, but now I have, all because I'm in a relationship with someone the site obsesses over. It's kinda like the TMZ of internet "celebrities". The feeling that you've had your privacy seriously violated is a new and altogether unpleasant one.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 16:53
|
|
|
Apple Tree posted:You know, I was looking at the comments about how they can't seem to distinguish talking about Jay O's personal life from talking about a fictional character and thinking, 'Welp, that's your garden variety objectification right there...' But actually I think it's weirder than that. Think of their mission statement on the home page: Nah, the thing is she "bashed" things (that tropers liked) first, once you do that there's open season on you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 16:56
|
|
|
e: beaten by loving beesApple Tree posted:You know, I was looking at the comments about how they can't seem to distinguish talking about Jay O's personal life from talking about a fictional character and thinking, 'Welp, that's your garden variety objectification right there...' But actually I think it's weirder than that. Think of their mission statement on the home page:  ) for a living. Fast Eddie is the guy almost solely responsible for the 'no bashing (or real analysis)' rule on the wiki and he still has that little gently caress Critics message at the bottom of his page (y'know, under that anecdote about a conversation between him and his two sockpuppets).TVtropes has a pretty good history with treating people like poo poo in situations like this though, see also that person who wanted credit for their comic(?) being used as a page image and got roundly told to go to hell. e again: The game Ahab worked on (in what I'm going to go ahead and assume was a minor role given what we know about his coding skillz) was the Wolfenstein remake. The one Yahtzee reviewed in limerick form. I've only heard that in this thread though, even if it makes sense - all I remember is FE throwing a shitfit in the Zero Punctuation discussion page. Saint Drogo fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Nov 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
Does anyone know what game Yahtzee reviewed that apparently lead to Fast Eddie deleting most of the page? Somebody mentioned that FE did the AI on it and that sounds like hilariously stupid drama so I'd like to know more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:03
|
|
|
Saint Drogo posted:Ah, but Jay O is fair game because she bashes things (and worse, their fans Keep in mind that Fast Eddie is supposed to have said, "Constructive criticism is saying what's good about a work," and even if he didn't there's more than enough people on his site who seem to agree with the sentiment. MrAristocrates posted:Does anyone know what game Yahtzee reviewed that apparently lead to Fast Eddie deleting most of the page? Somebody mentioned that FE did the AI on it and that sounds like hilariously stupid drama so I'd like to know more. One of the Wolfenstein games, I think.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:05
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:Keep in mind that Fast Eddie is supposed to have said, "Constructive criticism is saying what's good about a work," and even if he didn't there's more than enough people on his site who seem to agree with the sentiment. I already know that the answer is a firm No but don't these people want to improve their work?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:09
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:I already know that the answer is a firm No but don't these people want to improve their work?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:50
|
|
|
Saint Drogo posted:They don't have work to improve. Most of them don't produce anything beyond what they write to take part in forum games. TVtropes isn't a writer's community, or even a community with a higher number of wannabe-writers in it than anywhere else geeks congregate. That's why ninjaxenomorph's "attacking our creativity??" was so funny - not counting the occasional internet tip of the hat from creators who are vaguely aware of the site, the biggest creative successes from the TVTropes community are a Neon Genesis Evangelion/Warhammer 40k crossover fanfic, a rewrite of the first Harry Potter book by a maniac who wishes he was autistic and the line "the dickgirls opened fire".
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:I already know that the answer is a firm No but don't these people want to improve their work? How could they possibly improve? Their works, whether they actually exist or are just ideas bouncing around in their heads, are so much like the things they already enjoy that clearly they are exactly as good. It's mathematics. If a thing is good and you like it in one context, then tearing it out like it was just a single gear and shoving it into your thing won't diminish or change its quality at all. The gently caress is context anyways? All shall be well, and all manner of anime shall be well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
Not sure where the "no criticism allowed" thing is coming from. There is a huge TVT Reviews section with plenty of bashing reviews.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
eyebones posted:Not sure where the "no criticism allowed" thing is coming from. There is a huge TVT Reviews section with plenty of bashing reviews. And their
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:Do a review praising The Last Airbender. Or some other work/adaptation they seem to universally hate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
a travelling HEGEL posted:Late to this, but what do they think is wrong with Last Airbender? It's a great kid's show. The terrible Shyamalan film was just called The Last Airbender, while the series was Avatar The Last Airbender.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 18:58
|
|
|
a travelling HEGEL posted:Late to this, but what do they think is wrong with Last Airbender? It's a great kid's show. Hell all you'd need to do is call it a great kid's show. They go apeshit when you tell them that their favorite show isn't actually aimed at their demographic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:The terrible Shyamalan film was just called The Last Airbender, while the series was Avatar The Last Airbender.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 19:16
|
|
|
They hate the movie, and treat the series as if it's God's gift to American anime fans. Not that I really have any room to talk, considering I bought the entire series to rewatch it just this weekend.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:And their Ah, but you see, you're exercising logic. Expecting consistency from these people is not going to get you anywhere. They just want people to agree with them about everything that they've decided is important, which is to say, pretty much every opinion they have. Whether a critic is positive or negative isn't the point; the question is whether their ONE OF US gooble-gabble patter is done right. A woman who stops pretzelling into endless loops of 'Just my opinion not judging anyone everyone's right in their own way art is all subjective this is just the opinion of little old me who doesn't matter' (however strongly-held her actual opinion may be) is not doing the gooble-gabble, and will cop poo poo from women as well as men. It's like walking down a street wearing the wrong gang signs: the Internet is their turf, and you gotta get got. 'Bashing' doesn't mean 'being negative'. It means 'having an opinion I don't like.' That said, what is the relationship history between TWGTG and TVTropes? I know that some reviewers have a tendency to use tropes in a way that mars otherwise interesting commentary, but that's about as much as I do know.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
Apple Tree posted:That said, what is the relationship history between TWGTG and TVTropes? I know that some reviewers have a tendency to use tropes in a way that mars otherwise interesting commentary, but that's about as much as I do know. Tropers are the kind of people who will hear a review's throwaway joke, then create several pages documenting all the tropes it might have: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustForFun/DisneysAnneFrank
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
kaleidolia posted:Tropers are the kind of people who will hear a review's throwaway joke, then create several pages documenting all the tropes it might have: My aching sides.  Reminds me of this bit on how geek humor works: quote:1) Restating the joke completely. It’s unclear why this would improve it, but you can bet that if you have a gag involving a fireman wearing red suspenders to keep his pants up, at least one geek will show up to suggest that he use the suspenders to assist in the keeping up of his pants.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
TheSwami posted:Nah, recently she's stopped being so gentle with her opinions - meaning she no longer expresses herself in a manner designed to coddle the feelings of easily offended fanboys - and this has resulted in many of the weirdo obsessives who once followed her around hoping she'd become their waifu abandoning her, usually because she was "mean" about Man of Steel or Legend of Korra. That's what it's about in most cases (that I've seen). I thought Obscurus or the Chick were the most slobbered over? JesuOtaku always seemed under the radar. (the rest is a bad post you can read below for maximum internet shame) Metal Loaf posted:One of the Wolfenstein games, I think. The latest one, if I recall, which... was a simple limerick that only got negative in the last few lines. And FE was acting like Yahtzee personally came there to poo poo on his wiki when he cleaned the page up. REAL TALK THAT IS RELEVANT: Tropers fighting! JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 20:49
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:I thought Obscurus or the Chick were the most slobbered over? JesuOtaku always seemed under the radar. Cool post 
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:One of the Wolfenstein games, I think. The hilarious thing is that the review could be summed up as: This is a generic modern FPS game and hard to review because it's just really mediocre. That's what he threw a temper tantrum over.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
kaleidolia posted:Tropers are the kind of people who will hear a review's throwaway joke, then create several pages documenting all the tropes it might have: Related: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InspectorSpacetime
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
Let me tell you about my strong feelings toward internet reviewers, personally I think the bitch had it coming, also everyone is dumb and I am superior
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:01
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:Let me tell you about my strong feelings toward internet reviewers, personally I think the bitch had it coming, also everyone is dumb and I am superior *posts on TVtropes "some fans think she shouldn't post on Something Awful, it has created a divide between her and the TGWTG fan community"* literally what she has to deal with
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:I fully expect the 'but the fanbase is terrible and deserves it' sort of rationalization. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
Well that was a disgusting story to read from start to finish.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
Wow, it even has a Wiki all of its own. http://madmanwithabooth.wikia.com/wiki/Inspector_SpaceTime_Wiki So much work for what amounts to word-swapping things from Doctor Who. Everything must be tropes! JackMackerel posted:I thought Obscurus or the Chick were the most slobbered over? JesuOtaku always seemed under the radar. Disregarding your other stuff, Jay O reviews anime (including Eiken and High School of the Dead) and is a girl. I'd be surprised if she didn't attract the more ardent creepers. TheSwami posted:*posts on TVtropes "some fans think she shouldn't post on Something Awful, it has created a divide between her and the TGWTG fan community"* Jesus. Surely there's a rule against negatively documenting every action a real person takes? That's sickening.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 21:56
|
|
|
kaleidolia posted:
It's like the Highlander: there can only be one woman on any given site who gets creeped over enough to count. Don't you know that? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
kaleidolia posted:Wow, it even has a Wiki all of its own. She did, but way less than the other girls. I think all of them have been showered in stupid fanfiction and creepy posts. I remember Obscurus getting a ton of vile poo poo for "causing Spoony to leave". Also, yeah, there is. (Surprisingly.) "YMMV" poo poo isn't allowed for actual people, but tropers put it in anyway by putting it on the work pages and the mods are too lazy to do anything about it. JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
TvTropes used to have an enormous series of pages on the "Hooker Verse", a set of fanfics about the real-life TGWTG reviewers all forced to be prostitutes and get raped constantly. It got enough attention during the last thread that they deleted the page, blanked the history, and pretended it never existed... ...but they suck at hiding the evidence. Still, even if their page index thinks the page still exists, surely they've at least scrubbed their fanfic recs page, right? Of course not posted:Hookerverse by emeriin (with guest authors; dark!fic, prostitution, swearing, drugs, alcohol; link goes to masterlist) I'm probably just cherrypicking, though, the rest of their recommendations can't all be that creepy. Or can they? posted:untitled by unknown (M Preg, implied character death, really disturbing imagery.) Huh, that one was recommended by the author of the Hookerverse. I wonder- Uh posted:Go Amongst Mad People by keevacaereni (Torture, gore, horror themes, multiple endings.) Why posted:Or Is It? by Iambic (Bondage, mindfuckery, knifeplay, dubcon, Critic!whump. Link goes to the first chapter, of which there are three.) Welp posted:Tie A Red Ribbon by Fininevermore (Bondage, knifeplay. Link goes to the first chapter, of which there are three.) No posted:In the Wasteland of Truth by nombrehetomado (Prostitution, character death, violence. Link goes to the first six chapters.)  I know this isn't even all that bizarre by the standards of fanfics, but usually they're written about cartoon drawings, not real-life people. She has her own troper page. She also says she's 21, so this isn't just some idiot 15-year-old who will grow out of it in a year or two posted:Fetish: Dominant women and submissive guys (that aren't Rape Is Okay When Its Female On Male), white labcoats, bondage and corsets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
I take back what I said earlier about a lack of notability not necessarily being a bad thing when used as a tool for criticism (at least for the purposes of TVTropes). At this point it's only an excuse to post poo poo like that. Yuck.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2013 00:09
|
|
|
Almost two weeks into November and we've hardly talked about tropers' novels-in-progress? For shame.Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:As they entered the old, dark, seemingly abandoned building, they both wondered if they arrived at the right spot. Quietly they made their way upstairs, holding their hands tightly. Not that it would matter anyway. Even though the place seemed old, the stairs weren’t squeaking under the weight of their feet. Slowly, silently, they climbed the stairs. If they did it more quietly, well, it would just be a bit more quiet. No human being could be completely silent. NaNoWriMo: "If they did it more quietly it would be a bit more quiet" Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:But I think I’m moving a bit too fast here. Let me start from the beginning, in a small village, on a small planet called Phandagron, situated between Warget and that other planet we should never mention ever. It was several decades ago, when the floating city of Order wasn’t as popular as it is now, where times were… pretty much the same as they are now, but it was earlier than now. Obviously. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:Tea and Delta quickly became best friends, sharing the good times and the bad times. But alas, like I said, friendship is like a flower. What do you say? Life is like a flower? What fool would state-oh right, never mind. Anyway, friendship is something you’d have to handle with care. Sure, best friends can say a lot more to each other than regular friends, but even that wouldn’t last forever, so after a huge fight, they both broke off their friendship, and went their own way. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:Tea and Delta were only eight years old when they wandered off while playing games. It wasn’t until they noticed their village was only a speck that they realized that they went too far, but seeing as they were kids, they were curious about what lied beyond. "Wow, amazing find, Delta." - No eight year old ever I'm just going to start skipping around. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“I’m sure that by now you’ve read the Ninja Ogre series, or at least watched the movies. As you might know, they take place after a certain war between orcs and ogres, with tensions between both races still present. What not many know is what the true nature of this war was. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“Who’s Mr. Huggatus?” Tea said. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:It was a long trip, taking over a week. There was a lot of bonding and bickering. Despite their rivalry, Tea and Delta both stayed in the group. They did fight sometimes, but it was quickly resolved by either Suzette or Hank. They went through various landscapes, from grasslands to deserts. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“So,” Delta said, “when exactly did you and Hank, you know, do it?”  Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“At least we didn’t pass out this time,” Delta said. “Seriously, what was that?” Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:They could hear the sound of an earthquake, or a landslide, they weren’t sure, mostly because they noticed nothing else. Then the entity responded. Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“You know,” Suzette said, “sometimes double standards can benefit both sides.”
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2013 01:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:19 |
|
|
Phandagron Chronicles: The Ninja and the Paladancer posted:“Well, when guys do it, it’s gross.” I can provide pictures to prove this isn't true.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2013 02:28
|
|