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So GMed my first game of Dungeon World last night, which was interesting. So this isn't a complaint, but does anyone else feel the mechanics sort of pin players in to playing pulpy paradigmatic representations of their classes?
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Nov 16, 2013 22:47
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Yep, that's kind of the point.
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Nov 16, 2013 22:51
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thespaceinvader posted:Yep, that's kind of the point. I never really considered that until I ram the game. I guess I expected the narrative freedom to have the opposite effect. But like I said, I'm not complaining at all. It was a blast to run.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:13
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They kind of lean that way, yeah. But I've played, for example, a Fighter multiclass-artificer who used Int as her primary stat and Str as secondary and tried her damnest to clever her way around things and only busted out the big 'ol 1d10+1d4 when it was necessary to stomp someone by shooting cannonballs out of her gunblade and oh, wait, you're right, that's pretty drat pulpy
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Nov 16, 2013 23:13
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TheDemon posted:They kind of lean that way, yeah. But I've played, for example, a Fighter multiclass-artificer who used Int as her primary stat and Str as secondary and tried her damnest to clever her way around things and only busted out the big 'ol 1d10+1d4 when it was necessary to stomp someone by shooting cannonballs out of her gunblade and I'm totally picking up Dungeon Planet after reading this post. Thanks a lot. $20 poorer.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:16
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I'm playing in a Dungeon World game at the moment and think there might be a problem with Jacolph Randolph's Mage class. I'm playing it at the moment and decided to map out my level advancement since we seemed to be leveling up often. I think I found a balance issue with it. Since INT is really the only stat that the Mage has to worry about, the player can quickly max that out if the player made sure to make INT their highest stat. So, by level 3, they have a +3 as an INT modifier. One thing that drew me to the Mage is the spell foci system, which I do think a good system. However, it gives +1 to aligned traits for the Cast a Spell move. If a Mage at level 3 used the Cast a Spell move with an aligned trait, they'd be receiving a +4 to the roll which would require the player to roll the worst possible roll to miss (two 1s). Now, one could say that is only the case with aligned traits of the spell focus which are decently clear on what they can cover and one can easily infer what they can't. However, the player can choose two advancements that allow to add aligned traits to their spell focus. If the player chooses these advancements and chooses aligned traits that synergize well with their initial focus, they can be extremely versatile. It is true that the player must also choose opposed traits, but a skillful player can choose one that won't gimp them as much as the aligned trait helps them. Of course, Cast a Spell has a good balancing factor in that, unlike most moves, the player takes 1 complication for a result of 10+ and two complications for a result of 7-9. So, maybe they aren't missing, but their spells are kept in check. However, the player could take Spell Weaver at level 5 so they can take Spell Mastery at level 6: now, cast a spell is like a normal move (10+ no complications, 7-9 1 complication). In other words, getting a 7-9 isn't as harmful, its a lot more likely to get a perfect spell (10+) and missing is very unlikely (2.78% chance of occurrence). You can build this Mage at about level 7 which is, immediately, a high level. However, I believe it greatly outclasses the other classes at that level. That said, I do think its a fun class, but I think it gets too powerful in comparison to the other classes. Unless, of course, I'm completely wrong about this. Edit: I should mention that the +4 on the aligned Cast A Spell move could even be knocked up to a +5 if someone used their bond to aid you. That's literally an instant success though, immediately, its not permanently and your ally is put at risk doing it. Covok fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 23:27
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ZombieLenin posted:I never really considered that until I ram the game. I guess I expected the narrative freedom to have the opposite effect. The thing about Powered by the Apocalypse games is that they literally tell players how to roleplay by giving them a set of moves that reward them for doing things in line with a character type. It's a narrative system, but that narrative is really heavily informed by the mechanics. So, Dungeon World is not the kind of game that tries to get out of your way and be super unobtrusive where your characters and your story are concerned; it actively tries to guide your group toward telling a certain kind of story with a cast of familiar archetypes. This is why PbtA games are great for capturing the feel of a genre. It's the details and individual motivations that are going to bring the characters to life here.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:38
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Covok posted:I'm playing in a Dungeon World game at the moment and think there might be a problem with Jacolph Randolph's Mage class. I'm playing it at the moment and decided to map out my level advancement since we seemed to be leveling up often. I think I found a balance issue with it. You are, sorry. "When you weave a spell that is Aligned to your Focus, your modifier to the roll can't be less than +1." This doesn't add +1, it means your total modifier (usually just your INT) is at least +1. UrbanLabyrinth fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 00:08
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:You are, sorry. "When you weave a spell that is Aligned to your Focus, your modifier to the roll can't be less than +1." Under what imaginable circumstances would a Mage have an INT of less than +1?
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Nov 17, 2013 00:21
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ProfessorProf posted:Under what imaginable circumstances would a Mage have an INT of less than +1? Anyone taking that move but who isn't a Mage and thus doesn't have high Int. Any Mage with ongoing effects/an Int debility.
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Nov 17, 2013 00:24
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More specifically, one who takes the "The casting saps your energy. You take -1 ongoing to INT until you have a few minutes to clear your head." drawback multiple times.
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Nov 17, 2013 00:45
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Covok posted:That said, I do think its a fun class, but I think it gets too powerful in comparison to the other classes. Unless, of course, I'm completely wrong about this. As mentioned before, the class' math doesn't get QUITE that absurd. But I agree with the first sentence quoted entirely - The Mage is pretty overpowered. I highly recommend Grim World's Channeler for your crazy non-Vancian spellcasting needs, until I get my things in order and put out my fixed Mage I've been working on for the past month or so.
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Nov 17, 2013 00:57
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:You are, sorry. "When you weave a spell that is Aligned to your Focus, your modifier to the roll can't be less than +1." Oh! Well then, I've been playing it all wrong so far. Now that does change things. I mean he still becomes very powerful when it comes to puzzle solving, I think atleast, but, mathematically, its more sound. I must have just skimmed it when I first read the move and was convinced the +1 was just a +1. Guess I didn't read the whole thing carefully enough. gnome7 posted:As mentioned before, the class' math doesn't get QUITE that absurd. But I agree with the first sentence quoted entirely - The Mage is pretty overpowered. I highly recommend Grim World's Channeler for your crazy non-Vancian spellcasting needs, until I get my things in order and put out my fixed Mage I've been working on for the past month or so. I might have to consider that as I do have Grim Worlds, but I haven't had a chance to really go through it yet. I'd prefer, that said, sticking with my current character for now since I find the Mage class fun. However, my GM had a lot of problem with balance issues in his previous games and once he heard what my plans were for character advancement, he started suggesting some nerfs I'm not a fan of. Trying to convince him otherwise since I already feel his love of making my spell blow up in my face is balance enough.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:24
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Covok posted:Oh! Well then, I've been playing it all wrong so far. Now that does change things. I mean he still becomes very powerful when it comes to puzzle solving, I think atleast, but, mathematically, its more sound. I must have just skimmed it when I first read the move and was convinced the +1 was just a +1. Guess I didn't read the whole thing carefully enough. What type of mage are you playing as? That is, what is your Spell Focus? This matters because of reasons. ZombieLenin posted:I'm totally picking up Dungeon Planet after reading this post. Thanks a lot. $20 poorer. Artificer isn't even from Dungeon Planet, it's from my Alternate Playbooks Packet: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/108623/Dungeon-World-Alternative-Playbooks Artificer is the class from that packet I am most happy with and think has held up the best. The Templar is okay, not great but not bad, the Priest has a really overpowered move and the rest of their moves are confusing/situational, and the Mage, well. We're discussing that now. But I am still really happy with how the Artificer ended up, so that one is worth picking up. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 01:34
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gnome7 posted:What type of mage are you playing as? That is, what is your Spell Focus? Well, I chose The Dragon as a my spell focus. Turned out to be a good choice when we had too many elves at chargen so I'm like "aight, I'll be a kobold then." Since our GM throws some pretty interesting puzzles at us, I can't say I use magic in a consistent manner especially since I hold back since my GM can be punishing. Blow up a wall, trying to get us some foot holds while going down a cliff side (blew up in my face), try to make a dragon think I'm his child (got turned into something out of the fly).
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Nov 17, 2013 02:07
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gnome7 posted:...until I get my things in order and put out my fixed Mage I've been working on for the past month or so. This is awesome news! The Mage class is my favorite class as well, but yes, very powerful. I play a Star Mage with Adjust the Flow of Time focus from the Prodigy move. In order to create a challenge, the power level is very high and he's only just 3rd level. I've also played a Dragon Battlemage to 4th level. Crazy-good fun there. They are powerful, but they (Mages in general) are only broken if you think they're broken. It just depends on the style your group enjoys playing. In any case, I really look forward to seeing your new version, gnome!
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Nov 17, 2013 02:22
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You can tone down Mage a little bit with help from the Mage's player. Just ask them at chargen, "Please recite the Three Ancient Laws, mage. What are the three things that magic cannot ever do?" OK I may have stolen that from Aladdin but it's worked pretty drat well so far! Its weird, I know for a fact that Mage is one of the most powerful classes in the game, but unlike Pathfinder's equivalent wizard/sorcerer/cleric, it's also easily one of the most fun to have in the party. Things blow up and go wrong when the Mage starts screwing up and I am pretty OK with that. That having been said it would be nice to get it a little more balanced out mechanically.
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Nov 17, 2013 02:45
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EscortMission posted:Just ask them at chargen, "Please recite the Three Ancient Laws, mage. What are the three things that magic cannot ever do?" This is an excellent chargen question, I need to put it into my routine.
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Nov 17, 2013 02:49
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gnome7 posted:Artificer is the class from that packet I am most happy with and think has held up the best. The Templar is okay, not great but not bad, the Priest has a really overpowered move and the rest of their moves are confusing/situational, and the Mage, well. We're discussing that now. But I am still really happy with how the Artificer ended up, so that one is worth picking up. The longest DW game I've run included all 4 classes from your packet, and I agree that Artificer was the best. On the other hand, the Templar had a moment where between Bloody Aegis and Unrelenting he held off a dozen strong opponents at once so his allies could take control of a warship to escape after a rescue mission and kept standing until he had every debility, 0 hp, and the surviving enemies were scared off by I Am The Law, then passed his Last Breath check by 1 because of the bonuses from both Unrelenting and Professional Courtesy, so Templar is pretty cool too. EDIT: Later in the same game, while journeying through a mountain range filled with some fire based monsters to look for a crashed spaceship, the group killed a baby dragon and the Artificer Jury-Rigged a cloak that could completely defend from one fire based attack before breaking. When they found the ship, a giant dragon was perched on top of it, demanded they leave, and started breathing a continuous fall of fire when they refused to back down. The artificer gave the cloak to the Clock Mage, who used the protection to run through the wall of fire then Cast A Spell to speed himself up to quickly get inside the ship and activate its weaponry to shoot down the dragon. Evrart Claire fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 03:33
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EscortMission posted:You can tone down Mage a little bit with help from the Mage's player. Just ask them at chargen, "Please recite the Three Ancient Laws, mage. What are the three things that magic cannot ever do?" I was about to say that's already covered by the Opposed aspect of the Spell Focus Move, but then I understood what you mean and that's a great idea. Such things might include resurrecting the dead, creating permanent spell effects, ect... There might be rules laid down by one or more gods, which if broken, will incur their wrath, not in a way you want complications to occur, but in the way that makes you be sure to never break those rules. EscortMission posted:Its weird, I know for a fact that Mage is one of the most powerful classes in the game, but unlike Pathfinder's equivalent wizard/sorcerer/cleric, it's also easily one of the most fun to have in the party. Things blow up and go wrong when the Mage starts screwing up and I am pretty OK with that. This... is exactly the point of the current version of the Mage. They can accomplish incredible feats of magic, but there will be times when their companions question whether or not it's worth it to remain in close proximity to their friend-Mage. EscortMission posted:That having been said it would be nice to get it a little more balanced out mechanically. I'm curious to see what gnome comes up with, that's for sure.
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Nov 17, 2013 03:50
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So what's the difference between that Mage class book and the Wizard book in the core rules?
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Nov 17, 2013 05:48
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ZombieLenin posted:So what's the difference between that Mage class book and the Wizard book in the core rules? Wizard prepares spells like a 3.5 wizard, although "losing a spell" is usually a worst case scenario. Its a great way to handle vancian casting, frankly, although its a little hard for new players to wrap their heads around. Mage has a Spell Focus, which defines what he can and cannot do. He makes up what he wants to cast, and rolls for it. Even with some fairly steep penalties, Mage has a level 1 move that, if you're not careful as a GM, may as well say "roll +INT to solve your problem."
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Nov 17, 2013 05:56
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Covok posted:Well, I chose The Dragon as a my spell focus. Turned out to be a good choice when we had too many elves at chargen so I'm like "aight, I'll be a kobold then." Since our GM throws some pretty interesting puzzles at us, I can't say I use magic in a consistent manner especially since I hold back since my GM can be punishing. Blow up a wall, trying to get us some foot holds while going down a cliff side (blew up in my face), try to make a dragon think I'm his child (got turned into something out of the fly). Oh good, Dragon Mage is one of the ones I am farthest along in. It is sorely lacking in Advances, but I think all the starting moves are set in stone. Here, give this a look-see. Ich posted:
I still do enjoy that aspect of it, actually! Even while being very strong, it only really changes the scale of what they do, both good and bad. Which is great fun, and it is less of a pain that trying to balance out a Pathfinder Wizard, which is just better at everything all the time. That said, operating on a different scale from the rest of the party is still not entirely desirable, especially not for a core class replacement, hence my solution, above - I'm making a unique class for a bunch of different spell focuses. The Mage will still be staying as-is, but there will also be Dragon Mage, Clock Mage, Winter Mage, etc. I'll be releasing them in pairs as I finish them.
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Nov 17, 2013 06:17
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gnome7 posted:Oh good, Dragon Mage is one of the ones I am farthest along in. It is sorely lacking in Advances, but I think all the starting moves are set in stone. Here, give this a look-see. Wow. When you asked what focus I was using, I didn't think you'd give out a working draft of your alternate Mage classes. That's really neighborly of ya, thanks. So, I decided to look through it a bit and, overall, I like the theme you're going for: ruthless and brutal magic warrior. It fits the combat magic idea well especially since the whole draconic origins. While I don't know if you came up with this, renaming Alignment to Drive is a cool idea as it better fits the way DW implemented Alignment. Giving a d8 hit dice makes this character feel a bit more like a "mage-blade" to me which works. Dragon's Desire is an interesting way to handle racial moves. The double edged sword nature of it, as not fulfilling a Dragon's Desire in time causes damage for the Form of Dragon move, could and could not work in play. I mean it is a smart way to keep people from overusing Form of Dragon just because since you can risk getting burned, literally. At the same time, the current desires given aren't well balanced. Blood Lust is the best since you're very likely to take damage if you feel the need to become a dragon. Treasure is second best since running into treasure might happen after slaying the best with your new dragon claws or finding it while soaring on your dragon wings. Power is pretty weak since I don't think you'll often have to parley after taking dragon form so you'll get burned often. Since the only thing that explicitly says your Dragon's Desire over takes you is Form of Dragon, I presume that is the only method to have your Dragon's Desire over take you. The starting moves seem ok. It's hard to judge some of them as I can't yet tell the use of Blaze. If Blaze is pretty useful, then taking 1 damage to give it someone can be useful (Dragon's Gift) and vice versa. Same can be said for the other moves where you get Blaze. I won't talk about the advanced moves since they seem to be very much in progress. I like that you're putting death moves in by default now since they're an awesome concept. All around, I like the Death Move, but I think the tag for it auto stopping shouldn't be the next time Making Camp. If you're in a dungeon when this happens, you can be around for a quite a while before that happens. Not to mention that its so specific that some players might try to get away with being alive for 7 extra days and counting just because they technically never made camp. The Gear is pretty sweet. I especially like the Kobold Underling. Does any other DW class give an underling as gear? To surmise, I like where you're going with the class, but I think some things need some work here and there. That said, I feel it will turn out well in the end.
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Nov 17, 2013 06:55
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Wow that Dragon Mage looks nice, I kind of want to try it. Out of curiosity does Blazing Weaponry effect Dragon's Fire?
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Nov 17, 2013 07:27
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Covok posted:Wow. When you asked what focus I was using, I didn't think you'd give out a working draft of your alternate Mage classes. That's really neighborly of ya, thanks. Both Drives and replacement Racial moves are things I came up with, yeah. I started doing it with Inverse World. quote:Dragon's Desire is an interesting way to handle racial moves. The double edged sword nature of it, as not fulfilling a Dragon's Desire in time causes damage for the Form of Dragon move, could and could not work in play. I mean it is a smart way to keep people from overusing Form of Dragon just because since you can risk getting burned, literally. At the same time, the current desires given aren't well balanced. Blood Lust is the best since you're very likely to take damage if you feel the need to become a dragon. Treasure is second best since running into treasure might happen after slaying the best with your new dragon claws or finding it while soaring on your dragon wings. Power is pretty weak since I don't think you'll often have to parley after taking dragon form so you'll get burned often. Since the only thing that explicitly says your Dragon's Desire over takes you is Form of Dragon, I presume that is the only method to have your Dragon's Desire over take you. I am not sure if this is clear, but the Dragon's Desires are two separate parts. You get the second bonus even when you are not overcome with your dragon's desire. The Power desire will always let you roll +STR to Parley - you do not need to Form of the Dragon up first. It's just that, if you do Form up and you trigger your desire, you need to force obedience from someone. This doesn't mean you need to Parley - you can threaten someone, or order a Hireling, or give commands to your fellow players. A Power-obsessed dragon mage just feels a burning need to be in control. quote:The starting moves seem ok. It's hard to judge some of them as I can't yet tell the use of Blaze. If Blaze is pretty useful, then taking 1 damage to give it someone can be useful (Dragon's Gift) and vice versa. Same can be said for the other moves where you get Blaze. Basically, Blaze is like MP that you can spend to power a few specific spells. This paragraph is what Blaze is used for: Anyone with held Blaze can spend 1-Blaze to gain one of the following benefits for a few crucial moments, their body changing for that short time: • Rending Claws: Hand, Piercing 3, Messy. • Spiked Tail: Reach, Forceful. • Hardened Scales: +1 Armor, or +3 Armor vs. Fire. • Dragon's Wings: With a wing-boosted leap, you jump to anywhere within Near range. quote:I won't talk about the advanced moves since they seem to be very much in progress. Make Camp is one of the basic moves, and it triggers anytime the party takes an extended rest. So if anyone in the party needs to stop for more than a couple hours, you go boom. quote:The Gear is pretty sweet. I especially like the Kobold Underling. Does any other DW class give an underling as gear? The Noble and The Brute, yeah. Both are in the OP - the Noble is mine, the Brute belongs to Supreme Court. quote:To surmise, I like where you're going with the class, but I think some things need some work here and there. That said, I feel it will turn out well in the end. It'll definitely undergo more work, this is just where it is now. Ryuujin posted:Wow that Dragon Mage looks nice, I kind of want to try it. Out of curiosity does Blazing Weaponry effect Dragon's Fire? Yep, although Dragon's Fire doesn't deal any damage at all unless you get a 10+, so the damage bonus doesn't apply unless you roll that high. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 07:40
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Double post, but: First draft of the Dragon Mage.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:29
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That's awesome. At first I wasn't sure about your idea of each spell focus being its own class, but if they're all this solid I'm really looking forward to the others. You can also run an all-Mage game and that would be fun as heck! Also I love Strength casters 
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Nov 17, 2013 09:25
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I still like the Mage as it is, but Cast a Spell definitely needs some more limitations, which is why I'd originally suggested that CaS always have a consequence that the GM chooses (GM chooses one on a 10+, two on a 7-9) - that makes Cast a Spell powerful but also a serious gamble, since using it will always cause something to go wrong. Not a super huge fan of Black Magic, as I think you could have just baked in a line or two about dealing damage into CaS instead.gnome7 posted:Double post, but: First draft of the Dragon Mage. Feedback at a glance: Burning Desire totally seems like it should be an advance, since it's a move that helps make it easier to fulfil the "cost" of your powers. I'd probably swap it for Rags to Riches, because Rags to Riches is somewhat interesting and very much hammers home the dragon theme. Elder Dragon's Hide/Eternal Dragon's Hide seems like you're just splitting the move in two for no real reason, and I'm really not a fan of giving casters 3+ armour. I would make it a single move that gives +2 armor and immunity to fire. Dragon's Apotheosis should probably be Requires: Dragon's Metamorphosis, and say "choose another" instead of "choose one," just in keeping with this kind of move elsewhere. Eternal Fire is rad.
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Nov 17, 2013 11:58
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That Dragon Mage is flippin fantastic. I really want a full Clock Mage playbook now, more than I can express in words.
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Nov 17, 2013 13:36
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As much as I hate to say things that have already been said, The Dragon Mage is quite nice. Thanks, gnome! Looking forward to seeing the others!
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Nov 17, 2013 14:08
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TwingeCrag posted:That Dragon Mage is flippin fantastic. I really want a full Clock Mage playbook now, more than I can express in words. Well I don't have a full one ready, but... 
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Nov 17, 2013 15:43
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gnome7 posted:Well I don't have a full one ready, but... Oh no there go my hopes of playtesting my own stuff, I have to go play this basically right literally this second. Eternal Witness oozes flavor and I love the Tick/Tock flipping back and forth mechanic. I wasn't sure a DW class could handle multiple named hold mechanics but hey look at this, I was totally wrong. The only immediate negative critique is that d4 damage is pretty anemic for a class that doesn't really do damage. Actually the immediate negative critique I have is that it isn't finished yet, I want this in my life real bad. EscortMission fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 15:51
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EscortMission posted:Actually the immediate negative critique I have is that it isn't finished yet, I want this in my life real bad. My productivity is fueled by discussion. Clock Mage preview edition: http://www.mediafire.com/?i39fa4nt313q7ms Dragon Mage preview edition: http://www.mediafire.com/?nkbie8s1vmbds01 And I'll put the full versions up when I get art done for them.
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Nov 17, 2013 20:55
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 I am legitimately a little mad at myself at how elegantly you managed to word moves that I'd been trying to model myself in a compendium class. I worked on The Road Not Travelled for hours and here you come with Tick Tock's Rewind option like you own the drat place. I can respect that. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/Dungeon_World/The%20Slider.pdf See, you've got at least half that class covered in much more elegant ways. I keep trying to come up with something to say in the way of critique and I guess the only complaint I can make is that so far the class is very, very focused on "stop or rewind time." Depending on what you count as "spending", there are only 2 things to spend Tick on and at least 6 things to spend Tock on. (I wasn't sure where to classify Stop The Clock and Eternal Eight so I didn't count them.) The two Tick things are REALLY cool and there are obviously going to be other things to blow Tick on (Accelerate, Forecast, Instant Strike, Inevitable Strike) but they're just not here right at this exact second.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:26
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EscortMission posted:
Nah I finished all the Tick moves too, this is just how I do previews. I pick a bunch of moves that share a theme and run with that theme - the theme I picked was Tock mage. Acceleration, Syphon Time, History Unraveled, Ignore Causality, Instant Strike, and Inevitable Strike each use Tick. Stop the Clock, Eternal Eight, and Time Travel both use Tick and Tock to function. The Tick-based Clock Mage is very different from the Tock-based one - while Tock is based on rewinds, slow downs, and full stops, the Tick-based one is all about speeding everything up. In the case of Syphon Time, it's about speeding someone up to the point where they turn to dust and stop existing. I imagine most mages will probably want to dip their toes into both options rather than go full-stop into one or the other, but a preview exists to tantalize so people want the full version. So there you go. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 21:43
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I really like the Clock Mage! Time manipulation seems like it would be hard to word but you've nailed it. Have you considered making Tick Tock not use a Point system? Have it act like a pendulum. Once you used Tick the pendulum swings and you can't use that move again until you used Tock. That is kind of how your description says it works "Adjusting the flow of time is like a fine balancing act - with every skip forward, you need a rewind, and with every slow down, you need to speed up" The way it is set up now, in addition to the "Flow of Time" options lets a player just use one move and ignore the other. This isn't a negative thing, and looks to what your idea is based around. Focusing on one or the other. This is more of a question into your thought process when creating the moves. Huckabee Sting fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 01:04
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gnome7 posted:Both Drives and replacement Racial moves are things I came up with, yeah. I started doing it with Inverse World. Whoops, looks like I need to learn read more carefully and make less assumptions. Anyway, the class seems much better now that I understand it more. It certaintly makes the class more in line with the other classes in terms of versatility while not sacrificing effectiveness.
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Nov 18, 2013 06:11
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gnome7 posted:Double post, but: First draft of the Dragon Mage. I like it! Here's some feedback: Consider replacing Bloodlust with Cruelty - rather than simply hurting someone, make them suffer terribly. What happens when you take Dragon's Eyes with Dragon's Metamorphosis? Permanent Dragon's Majesty makes sense - you can turn your attention toward someone and intimidate them - but automatically succeeding at Discern Realities forever doesn't work. I think Dragon's Eyes is a bit boring as is - why not enhance it with some dragon-specific questions? Something like the Barbarian's Eye for Weakness. I'd say you could instantly appraise the value of something but you can already do that with the Desire for Treasure. Maybe you could have some kind of gold-sight - ask "What here is valuable to me?" and you can see coins, jewels, gold and other valuables through walls, hidden on someone's person and so on. I think the text for Hardened Scales would make more sense for Dragon's Metamorphosis if you got rid of the 'or' - "+1 Armor, +3 Armor vs. Fire". Beyond that, taking Hardened Scales with Dragon's Metamorphosis is exactly the same as taking Dragon's Hide except you get another +1 vs. Fire. Curdistan's point about the Dragon's Hide tree is also pretty right. It might be interesting to give the Dragon Mage some moves which have certain features of Form of the Dragon as prerequisites - for instance, get rid of the Dragon's Hide tree and include a move which gives 2 Armor and immunity to heat and fire - "Requires Dragon's Metamorphosis (Hardened Scales)". Maybe instead of having Dragon's Metamorphosis and Apotheosis, you could just put a little check box next to each of the Form of the Dragon options - when you level up you can tick the box and take them permanently, as if they were moves. If you did all that, Eternal Dragon's Hide might look like this: "Eternal Dragon's Hide - Replaces Hardened Scales You have 2 or 3 Armor and you're immune to heat and flame." That way you could enhance the option before you'd taken it permanently, and you could have advanced moves which enhanced each of Form of the Dragon's options - sustained flight and enhanced carrying capacity for Dragon's Wings, etc. The only problem with this is that taking moves permanently makes Form of the Dragon less useful. Maybe if you took an option permanently you'd get an enhanced version to spend Blaze on - something like this: "Eternal Dragon's Hide You permanently gain the effects of Hardened Scales. Henceforth, replace that option with the following: '+2 Armor and immunity to heat and flame.'" Something else that might be cool - include a move which allows you to command fire, like the dragon presented here. Also, think about including support different kinds of dragon - black, green, blue and so on. Eternal Fire is great. Anyway, I hope all this helps.
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Nov 18, 2013 06:31
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Bigup DJ posted:I like it! Here's some feedback: Consider replacing Bloodlust with Cruelty - rather than simply hurting someone, make them suffer terribly. Done: The Dragon Mage posted:Dragon's Eyes quote:I think the text for Hardened Scales would make more sense for Dragon's Metamorphosis if you got rid of the 'or' - "+1 Armor, +3 Armor vs. Fire". Beyond that, taking Hardened Scales with Dragon's Metamorphosis is exactly the same as taking Dragon's Hide except you get another +1 vs. Fire. Curdistan's point about the Dragon's Hide tree is also pretty right. This is a really good idea. I've replaced Dragon's Hide, Elder Dragon's Hide, Metamorphosis, and Apotheosis with the following four moves: Dragon Mage posted:Natural Weaponry (2-5 Advance) And Hardened Scales now gives a base of 2-Armor and +2 Armor vs. Fire, for a total of 4-Armor vs. Fire and no reason to wear normal armor. Another cool thing with this change is that it makes Gift of the Dragon much more versatile when you hand Blaze out for other players to use. quote:Something else that might be cool - include a move which allows you to command fire, like the dragon presented here. Also, think about including support different kinds of dragon - black, green, blue and so on. I won't be doing these mainly because I like all the moves I have, and I made the conscious decision from the start that The Dragon Mage would only be about fire. A pyrokinesis type ability would be a good idea, but I don't think the class has room for it right now, and it would just muddle with either the riches or transformation theme it has going on. Thanks for the feedback!
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Nov 18, 2013 16:09
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