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Yeah - I have to keep restraining myself from saying 'WotC sucks at X' because the magic team are very good at most of the things that the D&D team are bad at. It's the D&D team in particular that are a let-down. It would surprise me if the RPG was licensed out. I'd expect them to cling on to it, churn out something lovely every few years to keep the trademark alive, and use the brand for other things, like (bad) novels, (bad) movies, (mediocre) computer games etc. They got the computer game license back from Atari recently, right?
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Nov 17, 2013 19:45
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Winson_Paine posted:Isn't the whole point of R&D to test things out to see what is going to work and what isn't? Painting that as abject failure is a little weird. America's Test Kitchen will use like 6,000 eggs to figure out what the best kind of quiche is, and use those to produce ONE kind of quiche for the show. That is what research and development is for. If people have ideas that work from go then they don't actually need R&D. EDIT: To provide a better analogy is that if America's Test Kitchen used 6,000 eggs to cook the same quiche over and over again. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 19:46
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MadScientistWorking posted:Not if everyone thinks its a stupid idea in the first place which presumably is what happened with the Magic RPG. Also, the quote that I posted was actually a former D&D developer calling Dancey a liar in regards to him trying to say that he always tried to stop quickly stop R&D projects which he thought had no chance of happening. The failure is the fact that it didn't happen. Who gives a gently caress what Dancey says or thinks? He hasn't done anything for them for years, who gives a poo poo. Is he doing anything for Magic or D&D Next now? No? Then it is probably safe to stop bitching about a guy who left the company loving 12 years ago boss. Gonna say the "over a decade ago" is probably enough distance. Obsess over something more current.
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Nov 17, 2013 20:18
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Winson_Paine posted:Who gives a gently caress what Dancey says or thinks? He hasn't done anything for them for years, who gives a poo poo. Is he doing anything for Magic or D&D Next now? No? Then it is probably safe to stop bitching about a guy who left the company loving 12 years ago boss. Gonna say the "over a decade ago" is probably enough distance. Obsess over something more current. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 20:21
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MadScientistWorking posted:Except that this is actually related to why its not actually true that the head business honchos didn't want a Magic/D&D crossovers which apparently it seems like there was five different attempts at doing that. I don't know exactly where that canard came from but you don't exactly try and do the same thing repeatedly if there isn't actually interest from someone. And this 12 years old news has any relevance on what is happening at WOTC right now and is affecting D&D Next because why again? This is not a former white house official revealing that Bush knew 9/11 was coming dude. This is irrelevant gossip bordering on pointless trivia from 12 years ago at the very least that you are using to assert how terribly run a company is right now. There are plenty of reasons to think Next is going to be bad without constructing whatever the gently caress you are trying to do here.
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Nov 17, 2013 20:36
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I'm honestly a bit surprised that WotC haven't tried to put some sort of card-related mechanic into D&D by now. Getting people to buy $30 splatbooks on a regular basis? Hard. Getting them to buy $5* card decks on a regular basis? A lot easier, surely, and probably more profitable too. Next would have been the ideal time to commit to something like that. (*I have no idea how much Magic decks cost.)
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Nov 17, 2013 20:45
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Payndz posted:I'm honestly a bit surprised that WotC haven't tried to put some sort of card-related mechanic into D&D by now. Getting people to buy $30 splatbooks on a regular basis? Hard. Getting them to buy $5* card decks on a regular basis? A lot easier, surely, and probably more profitable too. Next would have been the ideal time to commit to something like that. Starter decks are usually like 15 bucks. I'm pretty sure though that introducing any sort of card mechanic to D&D would cause the internet to collapse through the combined grognardism.
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Nov 17, 2013 20:47
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Pretty sure the two free-to-play MMOs (D&D Online and Neverwinter) are still going strong, and both are based on adapted real-time versions of tabletop rules - D&DO for 3.5 and Neverwinter for 4. It's a shame that the MMOs come out right at the end of their respective product lines, but from what I've seen of Neverwinter it keeps things like Striker/Leader/Defender/Controller and Paragon paths intact - could be worth checking out?
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Nov 17, 2013 20:49
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Payndz posted:I'm honestly a bit surprised that WotC haven't tried to put some sort of card-related mechanic into D&D by now. Getting people to buy $30 splatbooks on a regular basis? Hard. Getting them to buy $5* card decks on a regular basis? A lot easier, surely, and probably more profitable too. Next would have been the ideal time to commit to something like that. They used a card based mechanic in the most recent Gamma World, including a base set in the box and random booster decks. The Internet exploded with vitriol, despite the fact that boosters were not needed to play the game. (There were other issues with the booster set idea, but that's best left to the gamma world thread.)
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Nov 17, 2013 21:01
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Flavivirus posted:Pretty sure the two free-to-play MMOs (D&D Online and Neverwinter) are still going strong, and both are based on adapted real-time versions of tabletop rules - D&DO for 3.5 and Neverwinter for 4. It's a shame that the MMOs come out right at the end of their respective product lines, but from what I've seen of Neverwinter it keeps things like Striker/Leader/Defender/Controller and Paragon paths intact - could be worth checking out? In regards to Neverwinter Online yeah it's probably worth checking out because like you said it's free, and it's also not that bad. The problem is that they only use 4th edition in the loosest sense; It's a hack and slash in which your activated abilities have their type like "encounter" or "daily" and names pulled from the tabletop game, but that's the extent of it. Couple that with the fact that unlike DDO, which attempted to do nothing but group-oriented instances with a narrator to simulate running through a module, they went more with the standardized MMO structure of moving from quest hub to quest hub, with the actual dungeons being pretty underwhelming. I think it was a really weird decision to label it as utilizing 4th edition because it's really in name only.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:01
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Lord Frisk posted:They used a card based mechanic in the most recent Gamma World, including a base set in the box and random booster decks. The Internet exploded with vitriol, despite the fact that boosters were not needed to play the game. Weren't there also some Shadowfell-related "bad things happen to you" status effect decks and plot cards that were sold during the last line of 4E products? EDIT: In fact, wasn't there a suggestion by Mearles that they wanted to include something like those random plot cards as a module for Next? I don't know if I was misinterpreting that bit, though and it's as likely a product as any other aspect of their catchall modules plan.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:07
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Payndz posted:I'm honestly a bit surprised that WotC haven't tried to put some sort of card-related mechanic into D&D by now. Getting people to buy $30 splatbooks on a regular basis? Hard. Getting them to buy $5* card decks on a regular basis? A lot easier, surely, and probably more profitable too. Next would have been the ideal time to commit to something like that. quote:This is irrelevant gossip bordering on pointless trivia from 12 years ago at the very least that you are using to assert how terribly run a company is right now. Flavivirus posted:Pretty sure the two free-to-play MMOs (D&D Online and Neverwinter) are still going strong, and both are based on adapted real-time versions of tabletop rules - D&DO for 3.5 and Neverwinter for 4. It's a shame that the MMOs come out right at the end of their respective product lines, but from what I've seen of Neverwinter it keeps things like Striker/Leader/Defender/Controller and Paragon paths intact - could be worth checking out?
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Nov 17, 2013 21:07
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I don't know why people are acting like there aren't going to be any new D&D games. There's a pretty good one in development that should come out soon, it's called PFO.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:11
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From the WOTC forums, here's a handy hotlinked spell list, a lot better than sifting through the spells pdf: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dugptw9q2zlgaoq/Spells%20With%20Class%20Lists.pdf Flavivirus posted:Pretty sure the two free-to-play MMOs (D&D Online and Neverwinter) are still going strong, and both are based on adapted real-time versions of tabletop rules - D&DO for 3.5 and Neverwinter for 4. It's a shame that the MMOs come out right at the end of their respective product lines, but from what I've seen of Neverwinter it keeps things like Striker/Leader/Defender/Controller and Paragon paths intact - could be worth checking out? The 4e Neverwinter MMO is definitely worth checking it, it's actually pretty fun for a while. Worth getting to around level 30 (of 60) and seeing the first big dragon fight. It goes on for about a half hour. And if you don't have time, there's always youtube vids of it. Baldurs Gate 2: Enhanced Edition just came out last week too. And Chronicles of Mystara got an official port a few months back. edit: and Arena of War. The BG series has an ipad port now too. ritorix fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 21:14
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Kai Tave posted:You would think by now, as much as the novels sell, that someone would have made a Drizzt game. Make it more an action-y sort of thing, God of War by way of Arkham City, dual-wielding scimitars against hordes of enemies while telling your panther-shaped animal companion buddy to munch someone's face off, predator stealth sections in underground dungeons, crazy boss battles, etc. This was a while ago but they almost did this, once. The action-platformer-fighting-something game Demon Stone is mostly about unrelated characters doing things in and around a series of Salvatore licensed novels, but one singular level of the game features Drizzt fighting trolls at Mithral Hall. Interestingly, he's not really more powerful than other playable characters in the game as such! They don't even play up the fact that you play Drizzt, and it comes pretty much out of nowhere (right about at the exact moment you're thinking "why the hell am I not playing as Drizzt right now", in fact). It's not a great game, let's get that out the gate. But it basically emphasises this point: Why the hell haven't they capitalized more on this? The nearest I can figure is some kind of licensing issue over who exactly controls the character's inclusion. The FR novel line has some pretty lax and arbitrary standards for who claims ownership of what to begin with.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:24
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Rulebook Heavily posted:This was a while ago but they almost did this, once. The action-platformer-fighting-something game Demon Stone is mostly about unrelated characters doing things in and around a series of Salvatore licensed novels, but one singular level of the game features Drizzt fighting trolls at Mithral Hall. Interestingly, he's not really more powerful than other playable characters in the game as such! They don't even play up the fact that you play Drizzt, and it comes pretty much out of nowhere (right about at the exact moment you're thinking "why the hell am I not playing as Drizzt right now", in fact). There's also the DreamForge CRPG Menzoberranzan, which while not an action game features Drizzt as one of the NPCs you can recruit.  That Kenku is a pal of Drizzt's. It's a pretty cool game.
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Nov 17, 2013 21:55
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Looks like you can also recruit The Nameless One, apparently. Now that's something I wouldn't have expected to see.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:01
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Lightning Lord posted:Magic is extremely well run. Their various teams know what they're doing and are extremely good at dealing with the nutcases and jerks in the game's community. They're the Bizarro world version of the D&D team.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:07
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Transient People posted:Looks like you can also recruit The Nameless One, apparently. Now that's something I wouldn't have expected to see. That's just a reference, sadly. Especially considering it would require time travel, and it would be cool if time travel was real. You start the game by making two characters. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 22:07
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Lightning Lord posted:There's also the DreamForge CRPG Menzoberranzan, which while not an action game features Drizzt as one of the NPCs you can recruit. Is this the 90s game that used the EotB engine? I could never get past the poo poo intro.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:09
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I don't know why people are acting like there aren't going to be any new D&D games. There's a pretty good one in development that should come out soon, it's called PFO. No new games we can play. When SA was mocking the PFO Kickstarter there were talks of finding the cheapest cheeser weapon and staging a peasant revolt. One of the Devs then said that they'd ban whole guilds if they caught whiffs of GSF/SFD style shenanigans.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:10
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Splicer posted:Didn't a Magic developer end up on the Next team for a couple of weeks and then came back? I am convinced he did something to piss people off so he was sent to the bad boy corner to reflect on how good he had it. I was told by Ed Greenwood (I might have mentioned this before) that the D&D team is kind of unofficially seen by the rest of Wizards as a dumping ground for people who don't really have it together. It's hearsay though, so take it with a grain of salt, but he personally has had all kinds of stuff like manuscripts getting lost and editors requesting new copies from him while pretending they just asked for it, etc. PeterWeller posted:Is this the 90s game that used the EotB engine? I could never get past the poo poo intro. Nah, Dreamforge had their own engine that was kind of like Eye of the Beholder with freeform movement instead of a locked grid thing, they created it for the first Ravenloft game. Yeah the intro was a giant blob of early 90s CGI wasn't it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_ks3_Todk I still like their games for the actual art style though.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:13
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Lightning Lord posted:I was told by Ed Greenwood (I might have mentioned this before) that the D&D team is kind of unofficially seen by the rest of Wizards as a dumping ground for people who don't really have it together.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:15
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Splicer posted:Didn't a Magic developer end up on the Next team for a couple of weeks? I am convinced he did something to piss people off and was sent to the bad boy corner to reflect on how good he had it.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:21
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Do people actually play Dungeon Command? I only hear of it selling because a DM needed like 20 Goblins for a campaign.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:22
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I've played it with a friend. Works well enough for what it is. The game is functional, but I never did any stress testing. It's handy as a bridge between D&D properties. You can use the minis and tiles to spice up the board games (theyve got appropriate cards for each). I, like most people I imagine, just used the minis as a game aid for D&D though.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:26
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Payndz posted:I'm honestly a bit surprised that WotC haven't tried to put some sort of card-related mechanic into D&D by now. Getting people to buy $30 splatbooks on a regular basis? Hard. Getting them to buy $5* card decks on a regular basis? A lot easier, surely, and probably more profitable too. Next would have been the ideal time to commit to something like that. They tried, with Fortune Cards. It didn't go over well, but I'm pretty sure that's mostly because it was a tacked-on afterthought not a piece central to the design. There's also a general aversion among the community to 'pay-to-play', which is odd given splats and Dragon, but there you go. It's a similar reason why I think the D&D team got out of the minis and accessories business.
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Nov 17, 2013 22:49
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Lightning Lord posted:There's also the DreamForge CRPG Menzoberranzan, which while not an action game features Drizzt as one of the NPCs you can recruit. In Baldurs Gate you can run into Drizzt, kill him and take his stuff. If you transfer your character to BG2, you can run into him again and have a fun encounter where he realises your wearing his boots and carrying his swords.
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Nov 17, 2013 23:23
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Razorwired posted:No new games we can play. When SA was mocking the PFO Kickstarter there were talks of finding the cheapest cheeser weapon and staging a peasant revolt. One of the Devs then said that they'd ban whole guilds if they caught whiffs of GSF/SFD style shenanigans. Which is too bad, because those guilds saved their respective MMOs. Does anyone know the state-of-the-art for bad Ryan Dancey MMO design decisions?
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Nov 18, 2013 00:20
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Razorwired posted:Do people actually play Dungeon Command? I only hear of it selling because a DM needed like 20 Goblins for a campaign. I love Dungeon Command a lot, actually, the base rules set is my pick for best game of the year, and we had 6-12 regulars here for it for a while. Unfortunately, the distribution is problematic for competitive play (you get 1-2 of each figure and card per box, and a play set is 4) and they apparently didn't test some of the later sets in full play, as opposed to just box vs. box, so there are 2-3 cards that are kind of unbalanced. Also they stopped producing new sets after the Orcs which was quite a while ago. It's a really frustrating game, to me: the core idea (tactical combat with cards rather than dice) is utterly brilliant and most of the execution is really smart, but it needs some minor tweaking and additional support, which WOTC isn't willing to provide since everything they make pales so much revenue-wise in comparison to Magic. I've thought about doing some updating and stuff and trying to make a fan-continuation site but only so many hours in the day.
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Nov 18, 2013 01:36
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From the Mike Mearls twitter thread:quote:@swordnut a little birdy tells me d&d next will be out for Xmas. Any truth to that?
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Nov 18, 2013 05:36
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Razorwired posted:Do people actually play Dungeon Command? I only hear of it selling because a DM needed like 20 Goblins for a campaign. People who DM for Wednesday events usually get some kind of store credit for D&D stuff, and lately we've been using it on Dungeon Command sets. I've never played it, I'm told it's good, but the main interest to me is getting the minis.
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Nov 18, 2013 07:44
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Razorwired posted:Do people actually play Dungeon Command? I only hear of it selling because a DM needed like 20 Goblins for a campaign. I enjoyed it on the one occasion I played. It's reasonable. It scratches a tactical combat itch, and I'd like some sets to have around if we're short players for 4e nights. It would probably be more interesting if it was built more around customised decks/parties then starter sets. I know there are options for customising, and that a few of the recent minis came with conversion kits (and they might have done them for the boardgames as well), but I didn't have a chance to read them so I've no idea how solid they are.
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Nov 18, 2013 09:14
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Doubleposting to point out new L&L: http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20131118 It's... rambly and uninteresting, with the exception of pointing out the they apparently want the classes who are best at a thing, to remain best at a thing even if spells exist that do that thing - so Invisibility shouldn't make a Wizard better at hiding than the Rogue is normally. I can't wait to see the grogging out this inspires in the WotC forum thread.
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Nov 18, 2013 12:29
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Two problems with that article: 1) "Best at Magicking" is an actual thing they are going with and they still don't understand why you can't put it side by side with "Best at Stealthing" or "Best at Fighting". 2) If you don't define what "best at" means you end up with things like The Amazing Always-Stealthing Rogue and his trusty sidekick Literally Invisible When It Counts Wizard, which they did not specifically address (it needs to).
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Nov 18, 2013 14:12
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Yeah, the inherent flexibility of spells is something that D&D has always sorta quietly ignored, save for one edition that the current team seems hellbent on ignoring. Being THE BEST at stealth matters when you need to be stealthy. Being "Good enough" at stealth and "good enough" at everything else will always be better. It's the "limited spells vs skill" argument. Pick Locks vs Knock. "I can do this forever" is meaningless unless you actually are doing it forever. All that matters is that you can do it when you need to do it.
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Nov 18, 2013 15:08
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Greetings Tracker. Hail and well met, Stealthsperson. Do you have room for me? My specialty is overcoming obstacles.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:17
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Greetings Tracker. Hail and well met, Stealthsperson. Do you have room for me? My specialty is overcoming obstacles. My speciality is being better than other classes.
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Nov 18, 2013 23:36
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The quiche-in-green bell peppers thing turned out Pretty Good, but unfortunatelty was not as flavorful as i would have liked. I think i did not use enough cheese, and will try again and post a recipe once I have a recipe that is properly good.
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Nov 18, 2013 23:50
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More from the Mike Mearls twitter thread, which is like shifting through crap to find gold as people keep derailing it with other stuff, particularly the whole Damage on a Miss thing that has some people in a tizzy.quote:@Valdark2: @mikemearls Do Cantrips gained from race and feat scale per character level or do they require levels in casting classes to scale?
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Nov 19, 2013 00:54
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