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You shouldn't ban weed, it's ineffective. Just huge $$$ shame campaigns on those who choose to use it
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Nov 16, 2013 03:48
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I'm glad that post was on the last page. So here in Gainesville, FL, we have an annual smoke-in where an area of the downtown square is roped off and people who enter it light up whatever they've got and the police hang out and maintain the magical rope barrier. To my knowledge it has never gone awry and it doesn't seem like a ruse by the police. Is this a common thing in states where it isn't even approved for medical use? I wonder if these events help advance the legalization push or mitigate some of that energy.
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Nov 16, 2013 15:53
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superjew posted:I'm glad that post was on the last page. It happens in a few places. I know it was big in CO before 2012. As for its efficacy, who knows--as long as it doesn't get too weird, it can at least show that a bunch of people can smoke weed and not get in fights. The criticism usually comes the next day when the local paper runs pictures of how hosed up whichever park they used looks after a thousand stoners milled around in it all day.
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Nov 16, 2013 17:20
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superjew posted:I'm glad that post was on the last page. We actually use to have a smoke in in Washington DC on the mall every year on the 4th of July. It was amazing and people from out of town would never believe me until I took them down to go smoke on federal government property. They searched you like crazy on the way in but I managed to play games with them with just my Pocket PC so I understand how everyone else got their stuff in. The last year that I went they did pull one happy kid out of the crowd but they almost got jumped by a bunch of angry vegetarians in the process. And not just smoking in public the guys on stage had like a backpack full of joints that they were tossing into the crowd. Pretty good times but I heard they were getting more and more invasive as time went on and I haven't been in a couple years.
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Nov 16, 2013 17:21
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Last 4/20 my campus police were interviewed and they were asked if they had any concerns about the huge smoke-in in the middle of campus and the police chief's response was "We have not heard of anything like that." 
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Nov 17, 2013 00:21
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superjew posted:I'm glad that post was on the last page. In the 5 years I lived in Gainesville, I think I remembered hearing about this once and then never again. Fwiw, Gainesville is fairly liberal compared to the surrounding area as a college town (and has the biggest university in the state).
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Nov 17, 2013 18:03
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Xelkelvos posted:In the 5 years I lived in Gainesville, I think I remembered hearing about this once and then never again. Fwiw, Gainesville is fairly liberal compared to the surrounding area as a college town (and has the biggest university in the state). Really? I recall it happening maybe two years ago, and a couple of times before that. It's apparently not every year, but every year there is a big protest/march that starts in the plaza. It's true that we're relatively liberal, but then again, everything is relative. I'd like to volunteer for http://www.unitedforcare.org/ but I can't until the next calendar year after the petitions are due. It looks like we're on a trajectory to get enough petitions but it looks like the wording is being challenged, which worries me. Sorry about the Florida derail, I figure this is the place for this kind of talk. It's also important to me, my dad has only successfully treated his depression and anxiety with marijuana. Bonus local news article: Gainesville was once well-known for its marijuana
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Nov 17, 2013 18:32
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redshirt posted:Are there any places where groups of people can legally smoke MJ in CO, come 1/1/14? Private clubs?
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Nov 17, 2013 19:37
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TenementFunster posted:anywhere that isn't public or open to the public. there might be some people trying to open up "private clubs" but they should be shut down super quick for the reasons I outlined (IT AINT LEGAL) The way you described it seems to leave room for a private club adjoining a retail establishment, is that explicitly regulated?
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Nov 17, 2013 19:46
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Inspector Hound posted:It happens in a few places. I know it was big in CO before 2012. As for its efficacy, who knows--as long as it doesn't get too weird, it can at least show that a bunch of people can smoke weed and not get in fights. AreWeDrunkYet posted:The way you described it seems to leave room for a private club adjoining a retail establishment, is that explicitly regulated? the definition of a public place is very broad such that any semi-commercial operation could pass. I doubt one could create a genuinely "private" smoking club under the definitions most municipalities are putting in place. even if a club owner were to take every precaution, they would almost certainly get in trouble with The Man. a club wouldn't be able to offer "day passes," members would have to bring their own supply, no liquor sales would be allowed, and the clean indoor air act compliance would be a concern. regardless, I'm sure some idiot will still take a risk to run a pot club. I know some people have tried one night only "clubs" since the passage of A64, but the first person to try to start a permanent club will be raided in short order by the Feds, the state or both. my advice is I keep it at home if you're an end user and adhere very, very strictly to the letter and spirit of the law if you're looking to get into the business. TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 21:31
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TenementFunster posted:yeah except for that shooting at the 4/20 rally in Denver this year. avoid those horseshit public smoking events. they are a magnet for lowlife motherfuckers. I live pretty close to civic center park, and I saw enough of the 4/20 crowd that day after the event was broken up post shooting to know that I have zero interest in hanging out with that bunch. I was at that rally--there were plenty of cartoon stoners, but there were also a lot of people in attendance (especially early in the day) that I would have pegged as squares if I had seen them on the street without an enormous joint in their hands. Also horrible, horrible music.
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Nov 18, 2013 02:51
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So uh, you're still committing a federal crime if smoke legal marijuana and purchase a gun, right? Federal law and the NCIS 4473 question 11 e, specifically, supersede all this? Is that perjury or something else to lie on it? There sure are a lot of pot smoking gun buyers out here in Colorado. Like hundreds of thousands easily. How plausible is it for the ATF or Attorney General or whoever to start going after people in both these groups? Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 04:32
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Pryor on Fire posted:So uh, you're still committing a federal crime if smoke legal marijuana and purchase a gun, right? Federal law and the NCIS 4473 question 11 e, specifically, supersede all this? Is that perjury or something else to lie on it? Form 4473 posted:e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? That reads to me like the answer is "Yes, they would be lying on Form 4473 and committing a federal crime." I can't imagine the ATF has the time or resources to go after people for something like that, though.
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Nov 18, 2013 04:54
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I don't know, if there were ever an agency that would misallocate resources and time for a retarded low priority non-issue it would be the ATF, hands down.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:10
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Pryor on Fire posted:So uh, you're still committing a federal crime if smoke legal marijuana and purchase a gun, right? Federal law and the NCIS 4473 question 11 e, specifically, supersede all this? Is that perjury or something else to lie on it? Aren't you also committing a federal crime if you smoke 'legal' marijuana WITHOUT purchasing a gun?
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Nov 18, 2013 05:22
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showbiz_liz posted:Aren't you also committing a federal crime if you smoke 'legal' marijuana WITHOUT purchasing a gun? Yeah sure, but not as explicitly and as provably I suppose. That's why I'm wondering what crime is committed when you lie on this form.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:24
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Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah sure, but not as explicitly and as provably I suppose. That's why I'm wondering what crime is committed when you lie on this form. How do you figure? Buying from a retail establishment in any state with legal marijuana creates obvious evidence that could get you tossed in federal prison for a while, the only thing preventing that is discretion in enforcement. Lying on ATF form on top of that may get you more years if charges are ever pursued, but it's not any easier to prove.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:30
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You can buy things without leaving a paper trail using cash, so not really. The 4473s are required to be kept on file in perpetuity and can be accessed by the ATF at any point. Also I don't think anyone has been prosecuted under a federal law for possession in like decades? but this happens every day for firearms offenses, so it's a different animal. Given how thoroughly the FBI and banks are screwing people over based on legal marijuana I'm wondering if something similar might happen here. I guess I'm interested in what the guy who appears to be a lawyer in Colorado has to say on this, since he was just commenting a lot 
Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 05:39
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Pryor on Fire posted:You can buy things without leaving a paper trail using cash, so not really. The 4473s are required to be kept on file in perpetuity and can be accessed by the ATF at any point. Also I don't think anyone has been prosecuted under a federal law for possession in like decades? but this happens every day for firearms offenses, so it's a different animal. Given how thoroughly the FBI and banks are screwing people over based on legal marijuana I'm wondering if something similar might happen here. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dudsfp04.pdf The numbers are a bit dated (2004), but that's some 10,000 people not just federally prosecuted, but convicted and in federal prison, over possession. Why do you assume that it doesn't happen? How many people are in federal prison over lying on an ATF form? The firearm and marijuana conviction would each require proving that you have purchased marijuana, so your comments about a paper trail and such are just as relevant in either scenario. Either way once the marijuana purchase is established you are clearly in violation of federal law, having purchased a gun and lying on that paperwork just broadens what you can be charged with. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 06:12
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Pryor on Fire posted:You can buy things without leaving a paper trail using cash, so not really. The 4473s are required to be kept on file in perpetuity and can be accessed by the ATF at any point. Also I don't think anyone has been prosecuted under a federal law for possession in like decades? but this happens every day for firearms offenses, so it's a different animal. Given how thoroughly the FBI and banks are screwing people over based on legal marijuana I'm wondering if something similar might happen here. edit: but honestly the ATF doesn't even have the manpower to keep tabs on straw purchasing, so I don't know how many resources, if any, they will commit to pot users "massaging" the truth on 4473s. TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 15:52
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TenementFunster posted:"massaging" the truth on 4473s quote:e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? As far as I can tell, you would either take it to court and fight out the scope of "unlawful", or you could make claim that you were telling the truth at the time, which would probably be very difficult to disprove, especially given the extremely fuzzy line marking when someone is or isn't a "user". See: I DO NOT freebase cocaine. snorch fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 16:55
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Just buy your gun through one of the many legal avenues that bypasses a federal background check. The law says marijuana users should not buy guns from dealers. Don't break the law. Use the internet, private sale, or a gun show instead. Alternatively Colorado head shops should start selling "novelty fireworks launchers" with signs on them that say "not for use with bullets".
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Nov 18, 2013 17:00
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DrPlump posted:Just buy your gun through one of the many legal avenues that bypasses a federal background check. The law says marijuana users should not buy guns from dealers. Don't break the law. Use the internet, private sale, or a gun show instead.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:12
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What does this mean for the shotgun sitting next to my bed that my brother gave me for Christmas last year, that he bought in Texas?
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Nov 18, 2013 20:04
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veedubfreak posted:What does this mean for the shotgun sitting next to my bed that my brother gave me for Christmas last year, that he bought in Texas? edit: check CRS Section 18-12-112 if you're curious TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 20:10
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Yeah there are no more background check free gun sales in Colorado. You can't give a gun to a family member, and "gun buybacks" are now illegal without setting up 4473s for each transfer, even if the "buyer" is say, the local sheriff, so several gun buyback events had to be canceled in light of the new laws. Universal background checks are a very good thing, but the new gun laws in Colorado are so terribly written it's just painful. I'm still really interested in what a lawyer has to say on this 4473 question, I've asked the local sheriff, several cops, some NRA instructors and a few other random people about it and gotten a different answer every time. I guess the venn diagram overlap of people who know a lot about marijuana legalization and federal firearms cases is pretty small, not much good info out there.
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Nov 18, 2013 22:31
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Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah there are no more background check free gun sales in Colorado. You can't give a gun to a family member, and "gun buybacks" are now illegal without setting up 4473s for each transfer, even if the "buyer" is say, the local sheriff, so several gun buyback events had to be canceled in light of the new laws. Universal background checks are a very good thing, but the new gun laws in Colorado are so terribly written it's just painful. Well, the issue is that marijuana still isn't actually legal, even in Colorado; you're still in violation of federal law, which is a bad idea. Anybody buying or especially selling marijuana, even in Colorado and Washington, is still making a calculated gamble that drug laws won't be enforced against them. This question just seems like another iteration of that; do you want to gamble that the ATF won't enforce that provision? EDIT: A quick google finds a gun-nut forum that has discussed this question. relevant portion: quote:According to ATF Open Letter to all Federal Firearms License holders (gun dealers), 26 Sep 2011: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-684256.html Sooo . . .if it were me, I wouldn't advise anybody to buy marijuana at this point. It is, after all, still illegal, and you could at least theoretically still get in trouble. But I'm just a random dude on the internet so you probably shouldn't be taking legal advice from me anyway. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 22:54
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Pryor on Fire posted:You can't give a gun to a family member What was your 4473 question? If it is "can you be a user of marijuana and be in lawful possession of a firearm" then the answer is no. It doesn't even matter if you acquired a firearm without having to fill out a 4473, as 18 USC 922(g)(3) makes it a crime for ANY unlawful user of ANY controlled substance to be in possession of ANY firearms or ammunition. Marijuana is a controlled substance under 21 USC 802. how often this is actually enforced is a different concern, but as a matter of law there is only one conclusion. anyone who would tell you any differently is a fool.
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Nov 18, 2013 23:07
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Applications for weed licenses are open!quote:At the Department of Revenue headquarters in Tumwater, state officials were busy all morning. They said 299 applicants filled out the paperwork online during the first six hours of operations. At least a half dozen or more showed up in person at the headquarters office when they opened in the morning.
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Nov 19, 2013 13:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sooo . . .if it were me, I wouldn't advise anybody to buy marijuana at this point. It is, after all, still illegal, and you could at least theoretically still get in trouble. But I'm just a random dude on the internet so you probably shouldn't be taking legal advice from me anyway. The second a store is open in WA I'm going in and buying an ounce, smoking it then going back and buying another ounce. As far as I'm concerned the voters of my state have spoken, even if there were a DEA agent sitting outside the store I'd go in and buy my ounce and come out and be arrested on purpose because gently caress that poo poo. We want it legal, we had an overwhelming majority say its legal.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:59
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Many people agree with you, the problem is for gun owners specifically in Colorado. A felony arrest, even if it is later expunged, can make it unlawful to ever own a firearm again, obviously that is problematic.
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Nov 19, 2013 18:10
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TenementFunster posted:yeah except for that shooting at the 4/20 rally in Denver this year. avoid those horseshit public smoking events. they are a magnet for lowlife motherfuckers. I live pretty close to civic center park, and I saw enough of the 4/20 crowd that day after the event was broken up post shooting to know that I have zero interest in hanging out with that bunch. I'm surprised private clubs wouldn't be allowed. I'm thinking of the example of American Legion halls or Lions Clubs and the like which are members only, and get to skip a bunch of rules public bars have to follow - I'm thinking of cigarette smoking indoors, specifically. I'd think MJ clubs will happen eventually. I certainly would not want to be the first one to try, though.
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Nov 19, 2013 18:21
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redshirt posted:I'm surprised private clubs wouldn't be allowed. I'm thinking of the example of American Legion halls or Lions Clubs and the like which are members only, and get to skip a bunch of rules public bars have to follow - I'm thinking of cigarette smoking indoors, specifically. There's also stuff like hookah bars, which are legal in many areas where smoking indoors is banned. But what would be really interesting would be for this sort of thing to become legal: http://www.gq.com/food-travel/recipes/201207/weed-and-stoner-food-recipes-robertas-brooklyn
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Nov 19, 2013 21:54
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redshirt posted:I'm surprised private clubs wouldn't be allowed. I'm thinking of the example of American Legion halls or Lions Clubs and the like which are members only, and get to skip a bunch of rules public bars have to follow - I'm thinking of cigarette smoking indoors, specifically. CO and WA are blazing (lol) a trail, so legalization, especially on the commercial end, is being enacted with an abundance of caution. I'd reckon few people what to live next to a "weed club," and nobody wants to be the first club owner to be subjected to dram shop liability given the controversy over CO's new impaired driving law for marijuana. when/if it does become possible, I expect the regulations to be very, very stiff and liability (civil and federal law) to be a huge concern. Powercrazy posted:Many people agree with you, the problem is for gun owners specifically in Colorado. A felony arrest, even if it is later expunged, can make it unlawful to ever own a firearm again, obviously that is problematic. and to be pedantic, Colorado seals arrest records, they are not expunged. only certain offenses, such as juvenile/underage drunk driving records can be expunged in CO. expungement means the destruction of the records. sealing merely restricts access of the records and allows person with a sealed record to act like it never happened (for purposes of employment applications, etc.) in many instances. check CRS 27-72-308 if you're curious so no, I am not aware of any law that supports your claim.
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Nov 19, 2013 22:37
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showbiz_liz posted:
Please let this happen in Vegas before I die.
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Nov 19, 2013 22:39
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TenementFunster posted:easy there, Matlock. a mere arrest does not make it unlawful to own a firearm. 922(g) and the companion CO state laws require a conviction. feel free to cite the law you were referring to! Ah ok, so merely a felony arrest won't remove your carry rights, at least in Colorado, but having a felony arrest on your arrest record (don't know how the "sealing" works in CO vs other states) but either way it's bad news, is sure to gently caress you over in many other ways. Not too mention the actual cost of felony litigation.
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Nov 19, 2013 22:55
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Powercrazy posted:Ah ok, so merely a felony arrest won't remove your carry rights, at least in Colorado, but having a felony arrest on your arrest record (don't know how the "sealing" works in CO vs other states) but either way it's bad news, is sure to gently caress you over in many other ways. Not too mention the actual cost of felony litigation.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:10
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TenementFunster posted:that's a funny way of saying "whoops! I got caught talking out of my rear end!" The law as written would mean if the ATF tried to prosecute you would be guilty of a felony right?
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Nov 19, 2013 23:17
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TenementFunster posted:that's a funny way of saying "whoops! I got caught talking out of my rear end!" Nah its more like "whoops! I didn't know the difference between being arrested and being convicted."
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Nov 19, 2013 23:21
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Jeffrey posted:Nah its more like "whoops! I didn't know the difference between being arrested and being convicted." In many cases particularly with jobs that require a background check but not specifically with Colorado Gun laws apparently, there is no difference. In these cases a felony arrest is equal to a felony conviction. I'm not an expert on gun laws in all 50 states, but I wouldn't risk a gun related felony arrest if I could help it.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:27
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