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Valhawk posted:You have to keep in mind the historical context that you are working with. Exalted has a long and sordid history of creepy bullshit. So, when people see sexist stuff they tie it into that historical context, and assume the status quo of exalted having a petina of skeevy poo poo they have to deal with has remained unchanged. I know from personal experience that Holden gets really pissed whenever people associate Exalted 3E with things like the Infernals demon child rape fiasco, and fair being fair he wasn't actually responsible for that nor did he have any say in the matter, but Exalted 3E isn't a brand new game, it's a continuation of a line with 12 years worth of history and baggage. If you declare that you're setting out to make a new Exalted that's free of the skeez of prior editions you really ought to be prepared for your work to receive a double-dose of scrutiny, especially when you then decide to start unveiling things like that Abyssals preview. Are you really surprised that "Just trust me, this time we'll get it right for sure (but you can't see until we say so)" isn't really cutting it here? Serious talk, Stephen, being Ex3's PR/damage control guy seems like a task engineered to accomplish nothing but frustrating both sides. People here don't want endless empty reassurances and requests that they not get too negative, they want something tangible to look at and determine for themselves how the game they may have pitched in hundreds of dollars towards is faring. I'm not trying to tell you to go away or anything, but for real the reason the thread keeps circling the same topics with the same negative outlooks is because you guys aren't giving people anything else to talk about. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 15:25
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I just was curious about this and I wanted to ask just Stephan or Plague about this because I think they would know, because I am still not sure, but is the default for a combat character still going to be 'Favor your combat ability, then also MA because otherwise you'll be weaker then someone doing that for various reasons regardless of what you buy'? But I do want to say this; I am still excited about 3E, and can't wait to get my copy. I am honestly excited for the idea of having players who don't all favor MA because it's the 'do everything' ability or whatever. I just...am kind of waiting for it and without much to talk about I don't really know what to say about it. I mean there are weird things going on and I mentioned I don't like some of the art, but I mean, it's good and bad things at the same time. Expecting it to be perfect might be going too far, so I mean, what I want to do is say 'Well what you did here is awesome, but this could be improved' or something, I just dunno what I can do that for here, so I think letting other goons talk about it is better. I think you- as in StephanLS- handle at least the PR stuff pretty good.
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Nov 16, 2013 16:58
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Stephenls posted:My real goal is just to prevent this thread from becoming an "Everybody knows Exalted 3e is terrible and made by idiots, now let's laugh at how terrible they are" echo chamber, which it was a couple of pages back. From my perspective you've done a pretty good job of getting the conversation to a considerably more interesting place. quote:I'm not aware of any such agenda. The feeding creepers thing, I mean. That's not a thing we consciously decided to do. You can observe that our set of examples so far are not setting a sterling record but please don't assert it to conscious effort. Yeah, that trend in particular was verging on conspiracy theory logic. quote:But I do want to say this; I am still excited about 3E, and can't wait to get my copy. I am honestly excited for the idea of having players who don't all favor MA because it's the 'do everything' ability or whatever. I just...am kind of waiting for it and without much to talk about I don't really know what to say about it. Personally I'm hoping if they do go the "uses a different type of XP" route that Evocations will be flexible enough that the ability to Bankai or what have you will be an acceptable substitute for investing in martial arts. Hidingo Kojimba fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 17:35
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Stallion Cabana posted:'Favor your combat ability, then also MA because otherwise you'll be weaker then someone doing that for various reasons regardless of what you buy'? This is pretty important. If I am a sword-swinging man, and I want the sword-swinging Martial Art, I shouldn't need dots in Martial Arts. It makes no goddamn sense and got house ruled out of our games a long time ago. Personally I am disappointed that unintuitive and unclear things like 'Martial, Martial, Martial' are being brought over because this was the chance at a new start where those things could have been fixed. I feel like it's a bad decision to hold onto a confusing name due to legacy, and it makes me wonder what other legacy errors are being held onto. Punching a dude is not using a martial art. Hell, I have a pirate character who loves getting into barfights being submitted right now and she would punch/kick the crap out of you but she doesn't know any martial arts, she just fights dirty. "Brawl" isn't any better in that regard. Just call it "Unarmed" or "Hand to Hand" and be done with it, because that's what it actually is and encompasses all the things it does without layering any other expectations on it! I just don't get WHY this is something being deliberately left unfixed. e: 2E is only even playable with a massive amount of houseruling, but we were hoping 3E wouldn't have to be. That was the whole point in making a new Edition. If we look at what very little you guys have told us, and all we see is more houseruling we'll have to do, that kills a lot of the desire to rebuy into the drat game and hype it to our friends. mistaya fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 18:36
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Where's my Jadeborn / Mountain Folk preview  edit: I mean character creation parity and easy-to-grasp skills are all well and good, but dwarves are the most important thing! Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 19:02
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mistaya posted:Personally I am disappointed that unintuitive and unclear things like 'Martial, Martial, Martial' are being brought over because this was the chance at a new start where those things could have been fixed. I feel like it's a bad decision to hold onto a confusing name due to legacy, and it makes me wonder what other legacy errors are being held onto. Yeah, all the poor arguments from the devs given for the MA stuff, keeping the Attribute/Ability spread, not removing the XP/BP debacle... when you combine it with releasing so little preview material it just doesn't add up to a convincing portrait for 3e's mechanics. Which, for many Exalted fans, is the one thing we really, really want from a new edition anyhow. Absent preview material, we just keep circling over these topics because its worrying. Just to add a few more logs to the fire, 'Martial Arts' is a daft name for the Ability anyhow because it clouds what the Ability actually does, which is just unarmed combat minus Dodge. Mechanically 'Martial Arts' does NOT cover any medical know-how (Medicine), spiritual fortitude (Integrity, Willpower), secret knowledge (Occult), physical conditioning (Athletics, Resistance). Yet that confusion brought from the name got us writers making Charms with only 'Martial Arts' pre-reqs that let you soak damage, negate surprise, sneak up on enemies, heal wounds, etc etc. Martial Arts is a holistic philosophy where you take multiple avenues of study in the pursuit of understanding and bettering oneself. It defies categorization as a single Ability within Exalted, and trying to squeeze it into that space conceptually ended up being a design nightmare in 2e. It carries the implication of stepping all over the toes of the other Abilities, and its already happening again with 'Martial Arts' weapons. Calde fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 19:33
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Stephenls posted:Basically I think when the book hits it's going to be obvious that we're not trying to pander to fans of skeevy bullshit. We've had all of, what, five art previews of female characters so far, if I'm counting right? Perfect Soul, Prince Diamond, and Novia Claro from the sigs You are, in fact, not counting correctly there.
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Nov 16, 2013 19:35
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Calde posted:Yeah, all the poor arguments from the devs given for the MA stuff, keeping the Attribute/Ability spread, not removing the XP/BP debacle... when you combine it with refusal to release so little preview material it just doesn't add up to a convincing portrait for 3e's mechanics. Which, for many Exalted fans, is the one thing we really, really want from a new edition anyhow. Absent preview material, we just keep circling over these topics because its worrying. This is probably the biggest thing. Any reasonable person wouldn't expect the writers to be able to read their minds and give them the Ex3 that's perfect for them (That's what Twilights are for), but after being told that 2E's roots were rotten and we needed a new edition to fix all the wrongs that doomed 2E long before the Inky Monkeys could get on the scene and put it on life support, we're seeing 3E keep a lot of the things seen as 'wrong' with 2E. The same Attributes/Ability spread, Dawns still having five combat abilities as caste, martial arts martial arts martial arts, BP/Exp, etc. We've certainly not seen all of the stuff since charms and pretty much every system is still under wraps, so it's definitely too soon to say Ex3 will be doomed. It's just not really gaining a lot of trust and confidence from a portion of the audience. It's a given that most Exalted fans are probably fans of the setting and not the mechanics but there's been little in the way of showing us that it's going to be mechanically better. Reassurances only go so far.
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Nov 16, 2013 19:41
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Stephenls posted:My real goal is just to prevent this thread from becoming an "Everybody knows Exalted 3e is terrible and made by idiots, now let's laugh at how terrible they are" echo chamber, which it was a couple of pages back. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 19:47
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Stephen, The Ex3 devs really have only a couple viable choices here: Option 1, Avoid interacting with players (outside of the WW forums echo chamber), letting people form whatever opinions they may in the meantime, relying on the quality of the final product to win them back. Option 2: Start communicating for real. Put out previews. Show that they're listening to feedback. Run screaming from the skeevy bits that have been (unintentionally - not attributing to malice, here) shown in the 3e previews so far. I would really, really love for you guys to take option 2. Because the current approach of "we'll talk to you, but then show that we have no intention of listening," is the worst of both worlds. EDIT: I didn't want this post to sound as abrasive as it came out, but there's no way to say what needed to be said otherwise. I know that you guys can do better than you have so far - I just want Ex3 to be as good is it could be! 
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Nov 16, 2013 19:50
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Wow, that Prince Diamond fuckup was terrible, I must have been really tired last night; for some reason I thought he was a trans woman and not a trans man. Apologies, all.
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Nov 16, 2013 21:01
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So what's the projected supplement release queue looking like? DESPITE EVERYTHING I'm looking forward to Abyssals and their related critters because I sure do love me some morbid crap, how long are we going to be waiting? Where are the Exigents and such in the hopper? I assume nothing is beyond some drafted outlines.
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Nov 16, 2013 21:17
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Nessus posted:So what's the projected supplement release queue looking like? DESPITE EVERYTHING I'm looking forward to Abyssals and their related critters because I sure do love me some morbid crap, how long are we going to be waiting? Where are the Exigents and such in the hopper? I assume nothing is beyond some drafted outlines. We want to hit six to eight supplements per year, like olde tymes.
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Nov 16, 2013 21:27
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Stephenls posted:We want to hit six to eight supplements per year, like olde tymes.
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Nov 16, 2013 21:28
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Stephenls posted:Likewise, I'm not engaging with people who want to talk me into changing the way Martial Arts works because that's not a thing that's going to happen here. Sorry, Ferrinus! It is, though. I mean, the particulars of your sentence are wrong because of course no one wants to change how martial arts works but rather what one of the skills that feeds into the looks-perfectly-great system is called, but generally speaking it has happened and is obviously going to continue happening that online fan feedback changes 3rd edition before 3rd edition actually comes out. Remember style points? Remember the phoned-in Reclamation 2.0 from the Infernals teaser? And, like, you people are going to have a playtest, one which I assume you intend take even slightly seriously rather than doing the Pathfinder "over ten thousand playtesters!!!" thing. So, it's definitely important to point out known elements of the current design that are some mixture of dumb and confusing. You, the editor, might well be the specific best person to complain about the Martial Arts thing about since that's 100% a clarity and setting description issue rather than a rules or game balance issue. The defense you've thus raised for "this martial art doesn't use martial arts" is that by sacrificing clarity the team is obtaining more flavorful setting representation. Obviously, this is false, since a "Martial Arts" skill not only creates rules confusion but is also downright misleading as to what the martial arts actually are. (I bet you you're going to have to have a sidebar in which you sigh wearily and explain that no, you character isn't necessarily doing martial arts when they roll their Martial Arts ability, but in fact might be doing the exact opposite of martial arts instead) Now, I don't know whether you actually believe what you've put forth or if you're just showing admirable loyalty, but in the former case convincing you might get you to turn around and exert pressure on the rest of the team, and in the latter case sounding convincing will at least make sure that the rest of the fanbase doesn't buy that there's some kind of upside inherent to the goofy nomenclature and is more likely to force your superiors to correct their mistake through sheer volume. Actually, the "look, we know it's bad but there's a benefit we get in exchange" is also the defense I've seen the Exalted team raise about both BP/XP and abyssal sex majyck, and in both of those cases the benefit was also either totally illusory or reliant on some hidden and absurd assumption (If we don't use BP, we have to use a math-heavy bottom-up XP chargen system like those designed for 2E by long-suffering fans! It's the only option!).
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Nov 16, 2013 22:24
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Stephenls posted:I'm not aware of any such agenda. The feeding creepers thing, I mean. That's not a thing we consciously decided to do. You can observe that our set of examples so far are not setting a sterling record but please don't assert it to conscious effort. Yeah I was running my mouth a bit there, I certainly don't think that there is a conscious agenda, but it's pretty obvious that some of the people aren't thinking their decisions through very thoroughly at times. Well, let me rephrase that, it seems odd to me that these bad decisions were even considered in the first place. On the other hand, the good decisions, which easily outnumber the bad ones, are pretty good. Take a recent bad decision for example, Baphony Clad in Verdigris (or whatever the name is), I don't really have a problem with her as character that is one of five signature characters for a splat about decadent power mad demon-kings, especially since she gets to be the Dawn-analog and will presumably be an awesome god-monster. However, when you send the art notes to the artist maybe try to add a suggestion that says "Hey, people are really up in arms about last editions depiction of women, maybe don't pick this one or if you do then try to avoid having her spilling out of her clothes". In your mind you might know 'yeah this character is going to be great', but all we get to see is 'yay, bikini witch Infernal'. Great, more second edition'. Which seems to me, to be the disconnect here. Holden and others, including you, keep telling us how great everything is going to be based on stuff we don't know about and all we see are the few spoilers - some of which contain some pretty drat stupid ideas. Two steps forward, one step back from our point of view. It just seems weird to have someone realize that martial arts only xp is a bad idea within hours of posting about it, but at the same time not want to change things that have been known problems for years and that had already been solved over in nWoD well before work on Ex3 began.
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Nov 16, 2013 22:25
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Takings lessons learned through esoteric hobbies and applying them to the art of barehanded murder is like, Martial Arts Lore 101, and should definitely be supported. Yeah, I definitely think weirder MAs are appropriate, the game needs some more straightforward stereotypical MAs before going off into calligraphy-fencing, etc. And splat-agnostic charm bundles to represent the Secret Art of the Lookshy Tea Ceremony would be great.
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Nov 16, 2013 22:50
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Kenlon posted:Stephen, Honestly, as much as it's tempting to assign importance to our own opinions, in the end I get the feeling that whether they preview material or not it's probably not going to impact the overall sales anywhere near as much as whatever gets leaked during playtesting, during the initial round of PDFs to kickstarter backers and reviews of the finished product. I mean it's nice and all to exchange words with the writers, but I think people have a wee bit high an opinion of themselves if they seriously think whether or not they personally are sold on things is going to be what swings this. Don't get me wrong, backlash over things like the Abyssals preview probably will figure into things (and hopefully for the better), but people placing huge importance on whether an ability is called martial arts or brawl as more than a personal hobby horse? Eh. Hidingo Kojimba fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 01:19
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Argas posted:Yeah, I definitely think weirder MAs are appropriate, the game needs some more straightforward stereotypical MAs before going off into calligraphy-fencing, etc. Oh absolutely. We need a ton of "basic" styles. As an example, we're looking at replacing Even Blade with a handful of sword-based (Melee) styles. Pretty sure Lord Chaowin Registrophe, First of Heaven's Chosen, still exists as the master of one of them because anyone with a fortress carved out of a mountain in the shape of his own head is too awesome to lose. They provide a good baseline so that the esoteric ones have something to diverge from.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:31
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Honestly, as much as it's tempting to assign importance to our own opinions, in the end I get the feeling that whether they preview material or not it's probably not going to impact the overall sales anywhere near as much as whatever gets leaked during playtesting, during the initial round of PDFs to kickstarter backers and reviews of the finished product. Oh, you're absolutely right. In fact, nothing that happens now is going to be what swings this, because it's already been swung and hit a monetary home run. They've done astoundingly well for a tabletop RPG release that isn't Dungeons and Dragons. More than Vampire 20th anniversary and Werewolf 20th anniversary combined, in fact. While most of the posters in this thread have worries or misgivings over one thing or another, whether it's Bureaucracy being relegated to a joke ability, or my not-Martial Arts keyed off my Martial Arts ability that can be augmented by my Martial Arts techniques being difficult to explain to my friends who have only played D&D, or a BP/XP divide that is pretty much purely a White Wolf legacy mechanic, or worries about Dexterity still being the god-stat, or the art being inconsistent, or Solar Supremacy being baked into the mechanics too hard, or too much focus being given to new Exalt types instead of giving the existing exalt types decent niches and a place in the world, or designers who alternate between being smug and defensive when customers have issues with problematic material (which is entirely more serious than the rest of these criticisms), or a splat having "Be The Noble Savage Sidekick" as a design goal, or the combination of the book being late and a lack of hard mechanics previews and nothing we can actually playtest, most of us have still posting in here have bought in despite our misgivings. The Exalted team has already snagged a ton of money to make their dream game. We just want it to be as awesome as possible.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:50
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Calde posted:Oh absolutely. We need a ton of "basic" styles. As an example, we're looking at replacing Even Blade with a handful of sword-based (Melee) styles. Pretty sure Lord Chaowin Registrophe, First of Heaven's Chosen, still exists as the master of one of them because anyone with a fortress carved out of a mountain in the shape of his own head is too awesome to lose. They provide a good baseline so that the esoteric ones have something to diverge from. Anyone with a name that awesome deserved to make the edition change, bad parts of Scroll of the Monk be damned. Okay, that'll be my question to Stephenls. Any chance this guy will make it into 3rd Edition in some form?
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Nov 17, 2013 02:01
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Better question. When he shows up in 3rd Edition, will we be informed of his new signature catchphrase, "I'm going to turn this place into... a registrophe."
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Nov 17, 2013 02:02
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NIV3K posted:Basically, I'm not happy that I was conned in to contributing to a fan project. I would likely have still contributed if I had known, but not nearly as much. Pretty much any project not made by the original creators is, in one sense or another, a "fan project". It's an accusation that doesn't mean much other than trying to claim something isn't "authentic". I understand the frustration, but I'd be disappointed to see people start drawing lines about what "real" Exalted is, like certain fans of a certain other game that love to declare which versions are genuine and which are false pretenders. Stephenls posted:EDIT: I think some of the disconnect here is that people assume I want them to love Ex3 already, so they find it off-putting when I ignore complaints. That's not me thinking the complaints are unworthy of addressing; that's me not having an objection to that complaint at this time. Ultimately this isn't about what content is or isn't in the game, or what rules are what, all of that is important, don't get me wrong. It's just a lack of openness by the creators. I decided to go back and look through all of my TRPG kickstarters, and some have been less communicative than others, but all of them have given me a pretty solid peek of what I was getting between the covers by this point in their campaigns. They made me feel like I'm being taken seriously as an investor in their projects. I know what they're doing because they showed me. The problem is that a lot of the Exalted writers are perfectly communicative, but are communicating with very little to talk about. StephenIs is basically playing damage control for rumors and supposition, and the effort is good that there's an attempt to reach out, but... I almost think it would be better if the writers wanted to keep stuff so quiet to just go dark publicly and pop up with a book in a year or whatever. This halfway meeting just feels like it's keeping both the writers and the fans from reaching each other. I'm not saying you need to go anywhere, but I think there's got to be a better way to handle this.
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Nov 17, 2013 03:42
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BryanChavez posted:Better question. When he shows up in 3rd Edition, will we be informed of his new signature catchphrase, "I'm going to turn this place into... a registrophe." He will be the Fire Aspect signature character for 3e, and that is the quote on the splat page of the DB hardback.
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Nov 17, 2013 07:03
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The problem is that a lot of the Exalted writers are perfectly communicative, but are communicating with very little to talk about. StephenIs is basically playing damage control for rumors and supposition, and the effort is good that there's an attempt to reach out, but... I almost think it would be better if the writers wanted to keep stuff so quiet to just go dark publicly and pop up with a book in a year or whatever. This halfway meeting just feels like it's keeping both the writers and the fans from reaching each other. I'm not saying you need to go anywhere, but I think there's got to be a better way to handle this. You know what's absolutely hilarious to me is that the various Exalted threads around the internet during the halfway point of 2nd Ed were basically saying entirely the opposite, that Exalted's problem was that the Developer generally didn't make any attempt to communicate at all. EDIT: removed the word "Your" from my sentence. Gave the false impression I was talking about Alien Rope Burn personally. Major apologies, not my intention at all. I meant Exalted threads in general. Really, sorry. I'm an idiot. Hidingo Kojimba fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 07:12
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:You know what's absolutely hilarious to me is that your various Exalted threads around the internet during the halfway point of 2nd Ed were basically saying entirely the opposite, that Exalted's problem was that the Developer generally didn't make any attempt to communicate at all. Basically no one is going to be satisfied with what the devs are saying, no matter what the devs are saying or how much they're saying it, unless the game is out and good. Neither promises nor apologies are substitute for quality product. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 07:30
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While a quality product is the end goal here, the problem is we also want a quality preview which we are apparently not going to get, even after massively overfunding the product. Compare yourselves to anyone else in the industry right now, even other White Wolf titles (like the Demon one you guys just plugged to us, which looks pretty nifty!) and you'll see why we might be a little bit upset with you.
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Nov 17, 2013 07:40
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Stephenls posted:Basically no one is going to be satisfied with what the devs are saying, no matter what the devs are saying or how much they're saying it, unless the game is out and good. Neither promises nor apologies are substitute for quality product. This is completely false. It is totally possible to say things that get us excited about the game but you aren't saying those things. You're (and I don't mean you in particular) saying things that are pants-on-head stupid and when you get called on it you handle it in the least tactful way possible. I don't really care if you give us previews or not, but if you trickle out tiny bits of material expect people to judge the game based on what they see. If they don't like what they see, they'll tell you. And if a lot of people tell you they don't like something and your response is, "well we're not changing that but you'll like the end product anyway," expect to get some backlash. Basically you're building no hype and lots of doubt, which will hurt your sales no matter how great the book is. The impression I'm getting is that this edition is going to have the same sensibilities as the last one with maybe a few cool mechanical innovations, in which case I'm not really interested.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:44
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Stephenls posted:Basically no one is going to be satisfied with what the devs are saying, no matter what the devs are saying or how much they're saying it, unless the game is out and good. Neither promises nor apologies are substitute for quality product. I see where you're coming from and I sympathize with your position. However, it's not entirely true. Morke promised an apology at the end of the Kickstarter over the Abyssal preview fiasco, and that never happened. It wouldn't fix everything, but it would certainly make people feel like the devs were taking the problem seriously. If the apology were accompanied by a brief explanation of what the stance on rape, sexualization and using creepy or disgusting things for shock value will be--and it's certainly warranted, given Exalted's history--that'd be even better. If it also addressed how this stance turned out preview material that seems to contradict what the devs have previously explained and why this won't be representative of the stuff in the core book (e.g., this preview piece was commissioned very quickly and did not get appropriate art oversight and here is our art director to explain how pieces get vetted, or that text used word choices that gave a mistaken impression, and this is what it looks like after we fixed it), that would go a long way towards giving people peace. You're right that people have little patience for promises. That's because what's being questioned is the devs' judgment. When a good chunk of the preview material makes people stare at their screens and cry out "Why!?", you (the devs, not you Stephenls) are exhausting your credibility. Pre-previews it was fine for Holden to say "trust me guys I hate this stuff as much as you do, I promise we'll fix everything based on my good work so far". Post-previews it's not enough, because we've been shown snippets that are pretty different from what we expected. If you (the dev team, not you Stephenls) aren't willing to show preview material for whatever reason, then obviously assurances won't do. When the lead developer promises to apologize and then never bothers showing up to discuss--and when he does post, he often comes off as arrogant and defensive--then having you come in to do damage control will obviously have a limited goodwill effect. Communication can absolutely have a positive impact on what people are saying about the game. You just have to let us see the development process from your point of view so that we understand why things went wrong, or why they won't go wrong in the future, or just show us something that is genuinely well-done. I want to impress on you that the whole "keeping the same attribute/ability spread" and "keeping BP/XP split" are not minor things: I would question the competence of any dev team that made this decision because the problem and solutions are so farking obvious. When people keep going in circles about this and about mistakes in preview material, that's because it's the only thing we have to talk about. Please give us an excuse to trust you (the devs, not you Stephenls) again. Lymond fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 17:35
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The main thing for me is that we have been told for like what, 2 years now?(it has felt that long at least) that we should 'get hype' but have been given an absolute trickle of info. I don't mind devs communicating a lot, or not communicating much, but it's that the communication has consisted of: "You should be excited for Ex3!" "Cool, what is it going to be like?" "Amazing!" "Can you give me more than that?" "Nope!" Holden and Morke have been trying to stir up energy and enthusiasm, but without anywhere to really focus it all, yeah, we will nit-pick what little we get. Perhaps the biggest failure of the communication in Ex3 was announcing it so drat early before it's release.
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Nov 18, 2013 00:48
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axelsoar posted:Perhaps the biggest failure of the communication in Ex3 was announcing it so drat early before it's release. The Kickstarter happened in May-June, according to the site. The Kickstarter was ANNOUNCED in, what, Q1 2013? And, yes, the Kickstarter itself was delayed for like 4 months. So, yes, it feels like forever, but there's been little to punctuate the time. That's why it feels like it's been much more than a bit over a year. Heck, the Kickstarter's projected release was October.
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Nov 18, 2013 05:38
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realbrickwall posted:
I lost my optimism for the timeline. I'll just be happy to see a detailed combat preview in December. PDF will probably be February I think. And my gold book... probably November 2014.
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Nov 18, 2013 13:30
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Bardlebee posted:I lost my optimism for the timeline. I'll just be happy to see a detailed combat preview in December. "Detailed combat previews"? What do you think this is? Some game OTHER than Exalted 3e?
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Nov 18, 2013 13:32
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realbrickwall posted:"Detailed combat previews"? What do you think this is? Some game OTHER than Exalted 3e? ... quote:The Kickstarter was ANNOUNCED in, what, Q1 2013? And, yes, the Kickstarter itself was delayed for like 4 months. Exalted 3e's first release date was "before Christmas", 2012. I don't think anyone thought that was a realistic goal, but it's worth keeping in mind when discussing how long people have been waiting for 3e to bear any kind of fruit. Also reminds us that the last Exalted product came out nearly a year and a half ago. 
Heart Attacks fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 14:27
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Stephen, as the editor, is there anything you can tell us about plans for formatting and organizing of information in the 3e line? 2e suffered heavily from blind adherance to putting the main body of each chapter's text into two running columns which blindly spilled from one page to the next with no regard for keeping related blocks of information together in one place. It had text which broke its back wrapping awkwardly around every curve of art dropped dead centre on the page. It had important rules and concepts spoken of only once in sidebars, or hidden inside the effects of a charm, or tucked away three subheadings deep within how to to resolve a mass combat attack. It has a whole chapter of miscellaneous mechanical subsystems vomited into the book in no particular rational order as a running screed. It had every very important ability's mechanical effects tangled up in blobs of lore and flavor text that made it very irritating to quickly reference just what your magics do, and often to even learn what the move is for in the first place. Will you, or anyone else on the team, be putting their foot down and forcing the writers to organize their thoughts in a presentable manner so that people can parse this game? A_Raving_Loon fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 16:04
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Ultimately I'd be happy enough to see charm descriptions contained on a single page instead of just wrapping around to the next page like ordinary text.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:43
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I would personally love to see a quick one-line teaser description of what the Charm does (mechanics or flavor, doesn't matter as long as it's consistent) so I don't have to dig through pages after page just to remember if Spirit-Hugging Technique is the one that lets me reach out and touch spirits (but not damage, that one comes later), or befriend them and try to convince them to join us in overthrowing the heavens. Actually, with Exalted's diagrams of the charm trees, that would be a good place to put that. Take one look and see all the branching paths I can take and know which charms are relevant to my character.
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Nov 18, 2013 16:56
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realbrickwall posted:
The Kickstarter was announced then, yeah, but they announced 3E a while before that. That was early 2012 shortly after Shards, so in a few months it will be 2 years since they first announced it. 3E was actually first projected to release 2012 Christmas IIRC.
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Nov 19, 2013 07:20
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Shards came out in July and the Big Announcement about Onyx Path and EX3 and all that was in August. There's still a fair way to go before it hits two years.
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Nov 19, 2013 07:31
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If we hit two years, though, then the magic spell wears off and the developers will change back into Gareth-Michael Skarkas.
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Nov 19, 2013 07:46
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