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gradenko_2000 posted:You should follow that up with Castles of Steel. Without all of WWII's methods of detection, WWI naval warfare was just a interminable series of blue balls in comparison. From what I've read WWI naval warfare was mostly about sailing around desperately hoping that you would run into someone you could shoot at :P e: I'm also a huge sucker for 4x games and I love CiV so gently caress it I'll buy Pandora and post a trip report in a few hours. Neruz fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 03:24
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Neruz posted:From what I've read WWI naval warfare was mostly about sailing around desperately hoping that you would run into someone you could shoot at :P Well, without radar or sonar or aircraft, it's kind of the evolution of age of sail combat but from longer ranges. Only the enemy may be less cooperative and is less required to hug the coast. Radio would help but I dunno if they had that reliably on ships in WW1.
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Nov 16, 2013 03:30
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I liked the theater of war: africa Centauro expansion but then I've read Iron Hulls Iron Hearts: Mussolini's Elite Armoured Divisions in North Africa and it made me love the little meatballs. I also loved Castles of Steel and the other one the author did. I just find it so amazing how constantly terrible everyone was at ww1 in every country and in every service. Like they literally go from fighting like its the civil war to fighting like modern times in just 4 years.
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Nov 16, 2013 03:50
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dtkozl posted:I liked the theater of war: africa Centauro expansion but then I've read Iron Hulls Iron Hearts: Mussolini's Elite Armoured Divisions in North Africa and it made me love the little meatballs. I think you're referring to Dreadnought, which I tend to read every two years or so. Also check out Peter The Great by the same author.
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Nov 16, 2013 04:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:Imagine War in the East having an interface as slick as Civ V's I don't have to. It's called Unity of Command. 
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Nov 16, 2013 05:54
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First thoughts on Pandora: One of the factions is a religious dictatorship described as 'combining the worst parts of facebook, scientology and north korea' Points for creativity.  PANDORA TRIP REPORT This is a legitimately good game. Those of you who were worried about it being a CiV clone, worry no more; while they've taken a lot of cues from CiV there is a lot more to Pandora than just that. Pandora uses a global finite resource system with Food and Minerals produced by working hexes and consumed by population or construction; minerals are actually turned into production capability (hammers) which is interesting. You can also design units; when you research a new weapon you can go into the workshop and decide if who gets what; there are multiple unit types (Soldier, ATV, Tank, Mech, Former and Colonizer are the six I have unlocked atm) which have different costs and can be armed and armoured with different weapons and modules and armour. There's a big element of exploration too; you can't see the entire research tree, only 1 - 3 techs down the line (unless you set it to see the entire research tree of course), six different factions to choose from with very significant differences between and some rather amusing banter between the different faction leaders when you diplome them. There's a very handy in-game encyclopedia that updates with new stuff as you discover it and has some rather clever writing too. All in all, I like this game. Initial impression is pretty good and I can definitely see myself wasting many hours exploring Pandora. There's a lot of ovbious influences and overall it's not that unique but it's well executed and entertaining so far so  from me.e: The research tree appears to semi-randomize every game. While all the same techs exist in the same era where in the era that tech appears and what techs lead to what other techs appears to be randomized; I'm not 100% certain but I think it's also randomized between players because I note some wierd tech disparities sometimes. So sometimes Hellfire Flamethrowers are available for research right away, sometimes they'res 2 or 3 layers in, but they're always in the Colonial Era. e2: I might have been wrong about the techs always being in the same era; last game I had Tanks in the Colonial era, this game I do not appear to have them in that same era. I'm not sure if they'll show up later or if I just don't get them this game. Neruz fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Nov 16, 2013 |
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Nov 16, 2013 06:55
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Neruz posted:
That sounds like I'd love it, but I really don't want to spend money with matrix to get it. Really really hope it comes out on steam at some point.
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Nov 16, 2013 13:30
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Holiday sale starts on the 21st. Get ready for some seriously moderate discounts!
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Nov 18, 2013 23:06
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I'd be upset if they discount Command after convincing everyone to buy 105bux of boats. 
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Nov 18, 2013 23:29
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I wouldn't because hopefully a discount gives them a noticeable amount of sales to make them understand. I know it won't, I know they're too loving stupid to see a correlation, but what's Christmas without hope?
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Nov 18, 2013 23:44
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:what's Christmas without hope? Hanukkah?  My WitP campaign is in January '42 and continues to be fascinating - I had no idea just how thinly stretched the Dutch and Australians were. I mean, the only reason I even have fighters over Port Moresby is because I stole them from Singapore. After losing a couple cruisers to a surprise Battleship next to what I thought was an undefended carrier, ANZAC is hard pressed to even put up thin ASW sweeps, let alone contest the seas. The situation around Port Moresby and Java is tense.
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Nov 19, 2013 00:37
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Myoclonic Jerk posted:Hanukkah? December to about March is absolute terror in WitP for the Allies. You have nothing. On the other hand, if you somehow manage to hold onto Rabaul and/or Java until March, you are in good shape. If you hold either by July you effectively shorten the war by a year.
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Nov 19, 2013 00:53
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I learned a lot more respect for Grey's playthrough after playing the game myself and then going back and reading that he was launching offences in Jan '42.
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Nov 19, 2013 02:10
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Now that I can finally post again I can recommend Pandora. They did a great job of listening to beta testers (like moi), about the importance of building an atmosphere, color, and "life" to the game. It's Alpha Centauri, but it takes its own direction. I really recommend it if you were a fan of AC. It's not coming on Steam. The devs are super friendly and great and listen to you feedback. Please support them. 30 bucks is a steal for this game.
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Nov 19, 2013 09:11
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Yeah, seriously if you're a 4X fan grab Pandora. Yeah yeah you'll be giving money to Matrix, it's actually worth it. You'll feel a little ashamed and sick inside, but that will pass when you start actually playing the game and realise it's the best   you've spent in a long time.
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Nov 19, 2013 09:15
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Necroneocon posted:Now that I can finally post again I can recommend Pandora. They did a great job of listening to beta testers (like moi), about the importance of building an atmosphere, color, and "life" to the game. It's Alpha Centauri, but it takes its own direction. I really recommend it if you were a fan of AC. Any reason it's not coming to steam? I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it was but Matrix is a harder sell.
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Nov 19, 2013 09:16
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uPen posted:Any reason it's not coming to steam? I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it was but Matrix is a harder sell. It's a deal with the devil, but the devil is actually paying out this time.
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Nov 19, 2013 09:18
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V for Vegas posted:I learned a lot more respect for Grey's playthrough after playing the game myself and then going back and reading that he was launching offences in Jan '42. See! See! SEE! Its easy to mock someone for loosing the royal navy and blowing up a planet, but until you try and play these games you never know how tricky they are.
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Nov 19, 2013 10:52
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Grey Hunter posted:See! See! SEE! Losing track of (and forgetting you even possessed) a Death Star and accidentally using it to blow up a planet is never going to be justifiable Grey 
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Nov 19, 2013 10:58
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Pandora is a pretty darn good and I don't even normally care that much for 4X games. There should be a separate thread or something to tell normal people that it exists.
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Nov 19, 2013 13:38
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uPen posted:Any reason it's not coming to steam? I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it was but Matrix is a harder sell. It's probably not overpriced for what it is, so I'd be willing to cut Matrix some slack this time.
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Nov 19, 2013 14:18
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ArchangeI posted:December to about March is absolute terror in WitP for the Allies. You have nothing. On the other hand, if you somehow manage to hold onto Rabaul and/or Java until March, you are in good shape. If you hold either by July you effectively shorten the war by a year. How in the hell was I supposed to hold onto Rabaul, with wishful thinking? True, the Rabaul garrison has surprisingly effective coastal guns, but that's about all they have going for them. I'm genuinely curious as to how defending Rabaul is supposed to work.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:09
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I've done it by rushing which ever of the US carriers starts furthest west in the Pacific is south (dangerously) close past the Marshall Islands and then camping a couple of hundered miles south of Rabaul untill the British troops that start off bound for Singapore can be diverted and arrive.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:21
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V for Vegas posted:Holiday sale starts on the 21st. Get ready for some seriously moderate discounts! Maybe we could share recommendations on stuff that's good? My current catalog: Advanced Tactics: Gold - didn't really like it, too free-form Commander - The Great War - excellent beer-and-pretzels take on WWI Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris - got my money's worth thanks to goon PBEMs Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 - simple to play, but resolution sucks and ends up feeling a lot like an ACW-themed Risk Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich - unsalvageably complex junk. Stay away. Gary Grigsby's War in the East - the last word on the Eastern Front. Would recommend. Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III - good if you're used to the higher-complexity games and want something with a lot of variety War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition - the last word on the Pacific Uncommon Valor and (non-Admiral's Edition) War In The Pacific - not as much grognardy crap as AE gives these their own place in my heart War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930 - AI kinda sucks, but great if you're a fan of WWI naval strategy I'm eyeing Scourge of War and Command Ops. Maaaybe one of the WWII Close Combats I know I should have Panzer Corps by now, but I don't know how much I'm actually going to play it after having run through Panzer General so many times, and to be honest, the game looks a little too cartoony for me with the oversized hexes and unit graphics. Panzer Campaigns Case Blue is also supposed to be good, but again, I don't know how much time I'll have to actually sink into it, especially since it doesn't support the co-op PBEM of Warsaw to Paris. Anyone familiar with Battle Academy and Grigsby's War Between the States? gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 16:34
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Obfuscation posted:Pandora is a pretty darn good and I don't even normally care that much for 4X games. There should be a separate thread or something to tell normal people that it exists. You are absolutely right so I did that
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Nov 19, 2013 16:38
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I will start a new PBEM of Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris given that apparently when I'm not in one they fizzle out and nobody reports back.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:14
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Myoclonic Jerk posted:How in the hell was I supposed to hold onto Rabaul, with wishful thinking? True, the Rabaul garrison has surprisingly effective coastal guns, but that's about all they have going for them. I'm genuinely curious as to how defending Rabaul is supposed to work. There is a US reinforcement convoy enroute to Australia (I think, might be some other island in SouthPac) with two infantry regiments, two light artillery battalions and a medium artillery regiment. They can make it to Rabaul before the closest Japanese unit (144th Regiment, tasked with seizing Guam) can make it there if they take Guam first (and there is no reason why they shouldn't). I usually send the Australian cruisers to Rabaul first to head of any shenanigans with SNLF units from Truk. Also run your carriers south to New Zealand ASAP (I usually dash on December 7th just to avoid any unfortunate conflicts if KB decides to be cheeky). He will probably focus on the DEI/Philippines first, so combining your carriers gives you superiority in the Solomones. He can reroute 4th Division, but that means it won't be available for operations in the Philippines or the DEI. If you then evacuate Singapore by Air and reroute 18th British Division to Java to shore up defenses there, he is kinda hosed one way or the other. Not gonna lie, Rabaul is kinda an all-in option. If it works, you have an airbase within B-17 range of Truk, which is massive. If it doesn't, you're kinda boned, you haven't lost Australia or anything but you probably won't be able to hold Port Moresby. Not that it matters, PM is overrated. The Japanese player needs aircover in the DEI and in the Solomones, and First Joint Allied Carrier Strike Force can overwhelm Mini-KB (just ask Saros). So if he goes all in with KB on Rabaul/PM, and you have that short American division in Rabaul, and if he doesn't reroute 4th division (why should he, who in his right mind defends Rabaul?) you crush the premier land unit of the IJA in the landing, run your carriers to the DEI at high speed, crush his smaller carrier force while KB sits around Coral Sea holding their own dicks. If he coveres the DEI landings with KB, you crush Mini KB when it tries to cover the landing at Rabaul. And even if the landings suceed, they still have to take Rabaul. Then you resupply Rabaul and Java and declare Mission Accomplished in about July 1942 (this literally happened in one of my PBEMs). WitP has some massive problems regarding the interaction of policy with warfare, namely that you don't have to give a flying gently caress what that drunkard in Downing Street thinks you should do re: Singapore. You can run the war along purely military considerations, something the RL commanders never could.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:38
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ArchangeI posted:WitP has some massive problems regarding the interaction of policy with warfare, namely that you don't have to give a flying gently caress what that drunkard in Downing Street thinks you should do re: Singapore. You can run the war along purely military considerations, something the RL commanders never could. Which makes the war substantially easier for everyone involved.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:44
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Neruz posted:Which makes the war substantially easier for everyone involved. Nobody thinks of poor little Tojo.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:47
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To be fair; if the political bullshit hadn't gotten in the way Japan probably would have fared much better in the war. They still would have lost, but they'd have almost certainly done much better out of it than they did in reality.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Maybe we could share recommendations on stuff that's good? I liked the idea of AT, but it was much too fiddly with sub units/production/logistics for me to actually get all that much fun out of. Has there been any other decent modern take on the old 'Empire' formula of random map wargame with production? Something with clean mechanics like Panzer Corps might be fun.
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Nov 19, 2013 18:23
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Why do we hate Matrix now?  What happened when I was gone?Here is a good preview of Pandora. I'll even do a video (Maybe, depending on how I am feeling) since i'm stuck in the hospital for a very bad MS flare-up. (No talking though since I have a roommate in my hospital room).
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Nov 19, 2013 18:45
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Necroneocon posted:Why do we hate Matrix now? Matrix has always been awful and you've always been a weird apologist for them. But if you want to talk about recently then releasing a less feature-complete version and fun competitor to Kerbal Space Program at many multiples the price is the latest sign of how horribly out of touch they are.
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Nov 19, 2013 18:52
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Matrix Games has always had games that are overpriced, have too much complexity/not enough abstraction/not enough UI help with complexity, and marketing practices that are 5-10 years behind the times (sales, DRM, client downloads, etc.), but some people more or less put up with it because they're the only ones that make games that deal with certain subjects. That the thread has especially soured on them lately is due to Command costing 105 dollars, World in Flames being an AI-less, multiplayer-less, mass of paper that can't even be ordered as digital-only in the year of our Lord 2013 while also costing 100 dollars (PLUS SHIPPING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET IT DOWNLOAD ONLY) and then Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager being essentially an overpriced alpha. The first game still has the "only game of its type" going for it at least. The second game has pretty much nothing to recommend it since VASSAL or the actual boardgame are things that exist, and finally Matrix's CEO was taking potshots at Kerbal Space Program for not doing things that the Buzz Aldrin game does without knowing that hey, KSP *is* going to have a "campaign mode" eventually which will make Buzz Aldrin pretty much completely redundant. In other news, Shenandoah Studio's Drive on Moscow is coming out tomorrow. I really like all the tension that this game system can generate despite its simplicity, and I'm looking forward to the release.
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Nov 19, 2013 19:09
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Speaking about Drive on Moscow, be aware grognard supreme, Doctor Bruce Geryk, MD has been testing and writing the strategy guide for it.
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Nov 19, 2013 19:12
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Drive on Moscow is designed by Ted Raicer, the man behind this little boardgame called Paths of Glory  (also a bunch of other amazing games) There's just no way that it's going to be anything short of amazing.
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Nov 19, 2013 19:32
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Battle of the Bulge was really good, so I'm sure Drive on Moscow will be awesome.
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Nov 19, 2013 20:01
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Obfuscation posted:Drive on Moscow is designed by Ted Raicer, the man behind this little boardgame called Paths of Glory So it will be unbalanced in favor of the Germans due to a strategy that wasn't playtested very well and he'll refuse to fix it until the 2nd edition? (Non-tongue in cheek version: He's an excellent designer but has had a few high-profile development issues with his games, so hopefully Shenandoah did a good job on the playtesting side; since it's an already established system, I expect that it will benefit from all of the Bulge play as well so I'm not too worried. Also, he has unorthodox historical views in that he pretty much thinks the Germans should have successfully taken down the Soviets and won the Eastern Front, so I expect at least a couple historical arguments over the Germans being too powerful in the game)
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Nov 19, 2013 20:37
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Advanced Tactics: Gold- the flexibility to set up your own scenarios sounded good on paper. Battles in Italy- Only buy if you have to play a game set in the Italian campaign. Command Ops: Battles for Greece, Battles from the Bulge, Highway to the Reich - Probably the wargame I have played the most. Although it looks complicated, your own unit AI is quite good so you can give brigades an objective (defend here, advance there) and they will go off and do it, setting up their own advance and rear guards while moving, then falling out into an attack or defence pattern when they reach the target. The important thing at that stage is to not give them any more orders. Orders take time to filter through and it is often better to let them carry out what they are doing. The upshot is it plays rather like Combat Mission - you give a set of orders and see what happens. While the smallest unit is a battalion, it is best to give orders at the brigade level. That way while you may have 50 units in your force, you only have to give orders to 8 or 9 units. Crown of Glory: Emperors Edition - Only buy if you have to play every Napoleonic grand strategy game. Distant Worlds + expansions - Everyone should buy this. Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 - Made by the same company as Crown of Glory. Only buy if you have to play every Civil War grand strategy game. Gary Grigsby's War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 Others love it, whenever I think about playing it I just go play Unity of Command instead. John Tiller's Campaign Series - Only buy if it has a specific scenario you must play. (*note, it has about a bajillion scenarios). War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition What other people said. War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930 Only just got this so haven't played much. Although make sure you run it in a window because the default full screen runs like rear end.
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Nov 19, 2013 22:50
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Alchenar posted:Matrix has always been awful and you've always been a weird apologist for them. I... I like them. I like Pandora and Red Storm.  It's not the devs fault its the publisher.
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Nov 20, 2013 05:52
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