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Key example probably being The Outcast Dead. Just... dear god. I'm still confused by the timeline bollocks in that story. Apparently an audio drama explains it but it seems like a weak cop-out for an answer that should have been an epilogue in the book itself if that makes sense.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:35
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Doesn't a barefisted thunder warrior punch through a ceramite-clad custodes in that book?
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Nov 20, 2013 00:25
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I thought it was an unamoured space marine? But yeah the custodes dies by spine removal via chest.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:44
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Nephilm posted:Doesn't a barefisted thunder warrior punch through a ceramite-clad custodes in that book? Well, in all fairness, Thunder Warriors are supposed to be insanely strong, which is part of the reason they burn out so quickly. Custodes are quicker that SMs and have more martial prowess, but I don't know if they're stronger than Thunder Warriors. Custodes are made to be the ultimate bodyguards while Thunder Warriors were made to be the ultimate tank.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:59
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Nephilm posted:Doesn't a barefisted thunder warrior punch through a ceramite-clad custodes in that book? It was a world eater space marine, just a regular space marine. Honestly the first heretic did a good job of the custodes by making them seem like they were on a completely different level than the space marines, except unlike space marines they fought alone and had no understanding of unit cohesion/tactics.
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Nov 20, 2013 01:47
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That was the one part of Outcast Dead that really killed the book for me. The continuity of Magnus' appearence annoyed me. Retcon or not, it's a major screw up. The book hinges on the rebellion being in full swing as our plucky band of heroes are a group of astartes imprisoned for being members of the traitor legions. The whole tragedy of Magnus is that he was dammed for trying to warn the Emporer of the heresy AND he screwed up the throne causing the Emporer to ignore his warning. Now he's too late so it would have made no difference anyway? But a regular World Eater should get his rear end handed to him by a custodes. A naked, unarmed World Eater does not rip his spine out, even if the nails are singing. And a custodes being assigned to guard detail because he's no longer perfect just stank of bad writing. Really? One of the emporer's best, most highly trained, heavily equipped personal soldiers is busted down to guard duty because he doesn't have two perfect eyes? Because nobody in the Warhammer universe fights with replacement body parts or anything... EDIT - (just looked it up and I'm not remebering it right - it was some nerve damage dulling his reflexes, not his eye) The sad thing is, I actually quite liked the book. If it wasn't for the complate lack of understanding of power levels and continuity, I think it ranks up in the teir below ADB and Abnett. The characters are well fleshed out (in 40k terms), the brotherhood feels real and there's some nice world building, showing that Terra is far from perfect along with some insight into the thunder warriors. Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 10:36
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All the astropath stuff in The Outcast Dead is really top-notch and cool, but the rest of the book has huge issues. However, the Custodes acting as guards isn't that far off as their job isn't just "bodily protect the Emperor" but basically protect EVERYTHING having to do with the security of Terra and the Imperium at large. Custodes are basically doing high-tech background checks in "Blood Games", are watching the Word Bearers in The First Heretic, helping the Wolves sanction Magnus in A Thousand Sons, and are keep an eye on the Assassin Guilds in Nemesis. It doesn't really stretch credibility that some of them would be guarding traitor marines on Terra. In any case, I just finished speeding through Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Empire and my opinion is that the former isn't nearly as bad as everyone here made it sound, and the later was really good but I see how you could get confused if you haven't read ALL the short story compilations. Luckily no audio-dramas were necessary, but the book basically tied up the plots of at least 6 short stories as well as Vulkan Lives, Fear to Tread, and Know No Fear. It actually made reading the book very satisfying because I had read all the short stories and it was fun seeing them all come together, especially the Lion. I was really worried that the Lion's plots weren't going to ever be touched again after the big stinky that was Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels, so it was nice to see a good author handle him.
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Nov 20, 2013 16:20
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I wrote a giant effortpost in the last thread about why TOD was a terrible book based purely on the awful prison scene alone and now I can't find it in the archives 
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Nov 20, 2013 19:14
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I finally finished Fear to Tread, and it wasn't a bad book, but it was very forgettable. The book started off with a massive build up creepy factor and mystery only to botch that completely. - The space wolves were added as a somewhat interesting side plot, only to have them more or less completely discarded without them really doing anything aside from telling Sanguinus of Magnus. - I don't see the point of putting Sanguinus into a warp induced coma, if they wanted him to go into the ragefire. - It also seems as if visions of the future has more or less become a commonplace. - The remembrancer served absolutely no purpose, and died without anyone giving a poo poo. - I personally found the entire demonic aspect somewhat poorly characterized. In the Night Lords Trilogy the Night Lords Fortress is characterized and is creepy as gently caress. This is just eh "Cathedral of Bones" oh and Blood lots of blood. - The depiction of Slannesh seemed to be basically lots of "flayed skin" and nothing really else. - I am really loving sick of the Word Bearers being a bunch of ultimate mustache twirling villians, and i want a book where Erebus gets the poo poo kicked out of him. Honestly the best part of the book was the unknown/creepy factor. I wished there was more detailing what happened to the worlds after the demonic incursion. Where we got small subtle hints about the atrocities that occurred there. TLDR; Fear to Tread is not a bad book, but it is an uninteresting book.
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Nov 20, 2013 21:09
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I have decided that Nemesis would be much better received if the target had been Curze. Instead of existing only to show off all the Assassin temples it would be a case of throwing one of everything at a primarch and hoping one gets through.
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Nov 21, 2013 04:38
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mllaneza posted:I have decided that Nemesis would be much better received if the target had been Curze. Instead of existing only to show off all the Assassin temples it would be a case of throwing one of everything at a primarch and hoping one gets through. A beautiful idea edit: that ASOIAF crossover fan fic is really fuckin good btw yall should read it
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Nov 21, 2013 04:59
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mllaneza posted:I have decided that Nemesis would be much better received if the target had been Curze. Instead of existing only to show off all the Assassin temples it would be a case of throwing one of everything at a primarch and hoping one gets through.
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Nov 21, 2013 05:04
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mllaneza posted:I have decided that Nemesis would be much better received if the target had been Curze. Instead of existing only to show off all the Assassin temples it would be a case of throwing one of everything at a primarch and hoping one gets through. Nemesis would have been much better if it just hadn't been written. However your idea is awesome, it just wouldn't work as a HH book really. UberJumper fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 05:06
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Dog_Meat posted:Emporer Is this some kind of stupid joke? This isn't the first person I've seen misspelling Emperor.
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Nov 21, 2013 09:40
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mllaneza posted:I have decided that Nemesis would be much better received if the target had been Curze. Instead of existing only to show off all the Assassin temples it would be a case of throwing one of everything at a primarch and hoping one gets through. When I first heard about what Nemesis would be about I imagined a book dealing with the assassin clade temples and their own loyalties. Taking place on Terra. Basically like a good Outcast Dead, about assassins and their own schism during the heresy. What actually happened. Yeesh.
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Nov 21, 2013 10:31
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Waroduce posted:A beautiful idea iawtp, though definitely don't read it unless you've gotten through book 4 in ASOIF (or don't plan on reading it at all). There are a few spoilers mixed in with the crazy other stuff.
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Nov 21, 2013 13:21
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Neurosis posted:Is this some kind of stupid joke? This isn't the first person I've seen misspelling Emperor. Sometimes people make typos on the intanet 
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Nov 21, 2013 14:45
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Still, I think it is a joke referencing spacemans over the top, ridiculously pompous sounding drawls. They always sound like they're orating a catholic service to me.
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Nov 21, 2013 16:28
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I tend to call him the "Big E" because I have some kind of mental block that makes me flip a coin internally and screw up the spelling. I have no idea why I do this. I normally speel pretty good.
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Nov 21, 2013 16:49
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Mowglis Haircut posted:When I first heard about what Nemesis would be about I imagined a book dealing with the assassin clade temples and their own loyalties. Taking place on Terra. Basically like a good Outcast Dead, about assassins and their own schism during the heresy.
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Nov 21, 2013 18:00
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UberJumper posted:
Read the end of Betrayer for him to at least get some comeuppance. Kharn nearly beats him to death with ease before he can escape
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Nov 21, 2013 18:17
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Alright, so I am reading The Unremembered Empire, and I kind of confused why Konrad Kruze is so powerful. I thought they already established he did not rely on gifts from the Ruinous Powers, and that outside of his terror tactics he was one of the weakest Primarchs. Then we have him dueling the Lion and Roboute at the same time, and killing hundreds of Space Marines up until that point, while Roboute nearly dies against a handful of Alpha Legion traitors. Did I miss something here? The guy seems to be at Fulgrim levels of lethality.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:31
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Uroboros posted:Alright, so I am reading The Unremembered Empire, and I kind of confused why Konrad Kruze is so powerful. I thought they already established he did not rely on gifts from the Ruinous Powers, and that outside of his terror tactics he was one of the weakest Primarchs. Then we have him dueling the Lion and Roboute at the same time, and killing hundreds of Space Marines up until that point, while Roboute nearly dies against a handful of Alpha Legion traitors. Did I miss something here? The guy seems to be at Fulgrim levels of lethality. Kurze can see a little bit into the future. Hard to hit someone like that. Also he's evil Batman. Also he knows he's in hostile territory, whereas Roboute got ambushed at point blank range by Alpha Legion Elites.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:35
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Kurze is Batman's skills with the Joker's mentality and a Jedi's precognition. He can do the whole "masterful implausibly workable plan" because he sees the future and can adjust things so it will work.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:46
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Also, saying a "weak primarch" is like saying a featherweight boxer is a "weak boxer." Yeah, he might not be able to stand up to a heavyweight, but he's going to be drat fast comparatively and he will still gently caress up a normal person.
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Nov 22, 2013 03:07
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So i just finished The Unremembered Empire. I liked how the relationship dynamic between The Lion and Guilliman played out. Like the part where: The lion feels mortified when his spread of drop pods comes raining down without his authorization. You could just feel the tension in that room with Guilliman. Or when they both find common ground as brothers felt kind of touching really. I also laughed at the bit where the wolves try to invoke the old rivalry between them and the Dark angels, and their champion just gets punched in the nose by El'Jonson. I liked it, although certain characters where kind of lost on me, since from what i understand they come from the short stories. Despite that they still felt fleshed out and well developed. The one thing i have to say is that Abnet does that thing where he in a rush to wrap things up at the end. It felt like reading his older novels during the final scenes. It did get me curious to read more on the night lords. Is that trilogy by ADB any good?
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Nov 22, 2013 04:46
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Absolutely. Everything I've read of ADB's has been rock solid.
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Nov 22, 2013 04:53
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:It did get me curious to read more on the night lords. Is that trilogy by ADB any good? YES READ IT NOW Sorry, I mean: Yes. Read it as soon as possible.
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Nov 22, 2013 04:56
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berzerkmonkey posted:Also, saying a "weak primarch" is like saying a featherweight boxer is a "weak boxer." Yeah, he might not be able to stand up to a heavyweight, but he's going to be drat fast comparatively and he will still gently caress up a normal person. Compared to a normal human, they're both loving tanks, why are you comparing tanks to humans?
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Nov 22, 2013 04:59
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:It did get me curious to read more on the night lords. Is that trilogy by ADB any good? Yes, very. I really enjoyed Unremembered, the only part that didn't work for me was the epilogue: Where Kurze's visions are less precognition and more of a goddamn satellite feed.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:02
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ADB's Night Lords trilogy is arguably the best that 40k has to offer, so hell yeah you should read them. The only other books I'd compare them to in terms of quality are ADB's Heresy novels.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:05
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Marin Karin posted:ADB's Night Lords trilogy is arguably the best that 40k has to offer, so hell yeah you should read them. The only other books I'd compare them to in terms of quality are ADB's Heresy novels. Eisenhorn.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:14
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Marin Karin posted:ADB's Night Lords trilogy is arguably the best that 40k has to offer, so hell yeah you should read them. The only other books I'd compare them to in terms of quality are ADB's Heresy novels. From what I can tell they're going to release the Night Lords omnibus any day now, so I've been holding off on buying the individual books.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:20
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Arquinsiel posted:I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. The weight class of a boxer isn't exactly the same thing as the skill class hence the expression "Pound for pound". It's like comparing a Tiger II to an Abrahms. They're both around 70tons, but one waaaaay outclasses the other. Alternatively, they're mythic figures, so most of the time it's a stalemate to show how powerful they all are, and they win whenever it's symbolically appropriate and lose whenever it's necessary they lose to illustrate some point or another, usually as due to some essential flaw. Kurze holds off two primarchs when he's being evil Batman because that's his thing, then gets killed by a single assassin because he's self destructive and thinks he's fated to die that way and other such bits of his character.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:24
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Khizan posted:Eisenhorn. Eh, Eisenhorn and Ravenor are quite good, but i honestly think the Night Lord Trilogy surpasses it in almost every single way. Is Angel Exterminatus decent? Graham Mcneil's last few stories/books have been awful. UberJumper fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 05:25
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UberJumper posted:Eh, Eisenhorn and Ravenor are quite good, but i honestly think the Night Lord Trilogy surpasses it in almost every single way. Eisenhorn and Ravenor are just very different books from the Night Lord Trilogy. Eisenhorn is more a hardboiled detective / techno-thriller novel while Ravenor is more of a comic book / hollywood action thriller. The Night Lord Trilogy reads more like old-school dark fantasy what with its fated anti-hero/villain-hero protagonist and everything. Personally, I thought Angel Exterminatus was pretty unpleasant to read and not really that interesting overall, but some people liked it more because it fleshes out Perturabo a bit. If you can tolerate McNeill's writing I guess go ahead, but I wouldn't pay too much for it.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:30
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I liked Angel Exterminatus because it made Perturabo a character rather than a "that guy" like Mortarion.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:34
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Cream_Filling posted:Eisenhorn and Ravenor are just very different books from the Night Lord Trilogy. Eisenhorn is more a hardboiled detective / techno-thriller novel while Ravenor is more of a comic book / hollywood action thriller. The Night Lord Trilogy reads more like old-school dark fantasy what with its fated anti-hero/villain-hero protagonist and everything. VanSandman posted:I liked Angel Exterminatus because it made Perturabo a character rather than a "that guy" like Mortarion. Thanks i will borrow it from my coworker tomorrow, so i read it after i finish up Shadows of Treachery. I am curious which primarchs really haven't been fleshed out at all yet? The only ones i can think of left would be: Dorn, Khan, Mortarion? *EDIT* I just noticed apparently Laurie Goulding posted a list of when the primarchs were found: quote:Horus From: http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=136&st=15 Which kind of goes against what some of the HH books say.  Howeever apparently Black Library is actually rewriting/fixing a lot of the past continuity errors in the books? quote:'Fallen Angels' had a massive timeline error in the original version, which has been corrected now. The collectors hardback is the new version, and I think the eBook is corrected too? UberJumper fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 06:08
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pentyne posted:From what I can tell they're going to release the Night Lords omnibus any day now, so I've been holding off on buying the individual books. I've been waiting on this alleged Night Lords omnibus for over a year now so... edit: I looked it up and Amazon says it drops on 22 May 2014, just over half a year worth of days from now. Also, wow, that cover is bad. got some chores tonight fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 06:50
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UberJumper posted:I am curious which primarchs really haven't been fleshed out at all yet? The only ones i can think of left would be: Ferrus Manus is the big one. Guy gets about zero screen time and loses his head. Alpharius kinda, since the book is about the mystery around them, not about them. You come out of it not knowing poo poo. Which I admit, was part of the point. But still.
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Nov 22, 2013 07:10
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