|
Anything can be killed. There's a plenty of things that are too large for a vindicare to dodge, or too strong for the sorcerer's shield to withstand.
Waci fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 21, 2013 |
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:27 |
|
|
Waci posted:Anything can be killed. Even an ascension vindicare can't dodge something a kilometre wide. A lance strike or macrocannon barrage will kill one fairly easily, yeah. On the personal scale, it's really difficult to catch them in an AoE they can't get out of. A Baneblade's main gun might have a large enough one that the Vindicaire can't dodge out of it. Remember, you need to be able to move out of the area of an attack to be able to dodge it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 18:12
|
|
|
Unless the GM says "no, you can't dodge that", a Vindicare is technically allowed to dodge everything.Ascension, Page 91 posted:Additionally, the Assassin may
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Ascension is different than Black Crusade, though. BC at least pretends to be a functioning game, while Ascension is basically Dark Heresy: Dragonball Z Edition. In any case, you only get so many reactions per turn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Ascension is different than Black Crusade, though. BC at least pretends to be a functioning game, while Ascension is basically Dark Heresy: Dragonball Z Edition. Vindicares get a number of extra reactions equal to their Agility bonus. They also get access to Unnatural Agility right away, so you're looking at somewhere around 11-17 dodges before talents. apostateCourier fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Nov 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
In 40k I feel pretty strongly that an irresistible force should trump an immovable object. There is only war, after all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:In 40k I feel pretty strongly that an irresistible force should trump an immovable object. There is only war, after all.  The whole point is that the vindicare doesn't stand still long enough to shoot/hit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
Probably the best way to land a hit on a Vindicare is to drop a truly ridiculous number of hits from a single salvo. They're still only dodging 1 hit per degree of success, so a large enough Only War Ork Formation with Big Shootas using the order that gives their weapons Storm might feasibly be able to land more hits in one attack than the Vindicare can dodge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 23:00
|
|
|
Talkie Toaster posted:Probably the best way to land a hit on a Vindicare is to drop a truly ridiculous number of hits from a single salvo. They're still only dodging 1 hit per degree of success, so a large enough Only War Ork Formation with Big Shootas using the order that gives their weapons Storm might feasibly be able to land more hits in one attack than the Vindicare can dodge. Bring an army. Tell them to fire all at once.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
And that is why they outlawed genetic engineering in Star Trek.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 23:41
|
|
|
Asehujiko posted:Unless the GM says "no, you can't dodge that", a Vindicare is technically allowed to dodge everything. A GM who lets an assassin dodge a macrocannon barrage, after they've got themselves into the situation where they're being targeted by a macrocannon barrage, probably has even bigger plans in mind.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 23:47
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Ascension is different than Black Crusade, though. BC at least pretends to be a functioning game, while Ascension is basically Dark Heresy: Dragonball Z Edition. Ascension is the several session reward for making it through dark heresy alive where the players get to go murder a greater demon or blow up a titan and by the end of it you have your players recruit another team of acolytes and deploy them to some rear end end of nowhere hive where the players are completely aware of how poorly equipped and screwed they are going in. The cycle continues.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
Quick straw poll, are mutations and mutants the bailiwick of Nurgle or Tzeentch? I say the former.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
Yoshimo posted:Quick straw poll, are mutations and mutants the bailiwick of Nurgle or Tzeentch? I say the former. Tzeentch has express dominion over mutation as a broad concept. Flamers of Tzeentch have fire that mutates the poo poo out of people, the Staff of Change mutates the poo poo out of people, Horrors of Tzeentch mutate constantly, numerous psychic powers keyed to Tzeentch deal with mutation, the Tome of Fate talks about Tzeentch and mutation, mutation is the process of rapid changes, etc. etc.. Nurgle may have some very appropriate mutations for his followers, but when it comes to "Which one uses it more as an active Thing" Tzeentch wins pseudopods down.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
Daeren posted:Tzeentch has express dominion over mutation as a broad concept. Flamers of Tzeentch have fire that mutates the poo poo out of people, the Staff of Change mutates the poo poo out of people, Horrors of Tzeentch mutate constantly, numerous psychic powers keyed to Tzeentch deal with mutation, the Tome of Fate talks about Tzeentch and mutation, mutation is the process of rapid changes, etc. etc.. Nurgle may have some very appropriate mutations for his followers, but when it comes to "Which one uses it more as an active Thing" Tzeentch wins pseudopods down. This guy's got it right. He's not the Lord of Change for nothing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
For dodging area attacks, in Black Crusade at least you can only move your Agility Bonus in meters on a successful dodge. So if the attack covers a large enough area, then it doesn't matter if you succeed in your dodge roll or not, you still get hit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
That rule exists in DH. Vindicares are explicitly stated as being able to ignore said rule, as long as the GM agrees.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
goatface posted:That rule exists in DH. Vindicares are explicitly stated as being able to ignore said rule, as long as the GM agrees. The quote posted earlier says that he can dodge attacks he normally wouldn't get a reaction against, including massive explosions, but unless he moves out of the area of effect a successful dodge wouldn't actually do anything except let him choose to move a bit before being blasted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:49
|
|
|
Goatface's interpretation would lead to vindicares potentially somersaulting half a mile in one direction to get out of the way of an orbital strike. I'm sorry Astus, but he wins.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 22:54
|
|
|
Yoshimo posted:Quick straw poll, are mutations and mutants the bailiwick of Nurgle or Tzeentch? I say the former. All the Choas gods have minor mutants/mutations, but Tzeentch is all about the Change.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 23:00
|
|
|
A strange growth from Nurgle will not be part of your actual body, but a parasitic infection buddy. A strange growth from Tzeentch will be a handy new limb or wing or tail.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
What about an extra boob/dick from Slaanesh or a giant blade where your arm used to be from Khorne?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 23:06
|
|
|
A strange growth from Slaanesh wouild be a second dick. ed: dangit, beaten
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2013 23:08
|
|
|
Waci posted:Goatface's interpretation would lead to vindicares potentially somersaulting half a mile in one direction to get out of the way of an orbital strike. I'm sorry Astus, but he wins. So basically riding the blast of the explosion to safety a la Team Fortress 2...
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
I see them less riding it to safety, more stepping between the flying debris without even thinking about it. Because cool guys don't look at explosions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 00:27
|
|
|
goatface posted:I see them less riding it to safety, more stepping between the flying debris without even thinking about it. Because cool guys don't look at explosions. Dodging flying debris, sure. Dodging tongues of flame, yeah, if you're supernaturally good. Dodging a pressure wave that could gelatinize the bones of an Ogryn, without just escaping the blast radius? That's straight up witchery, and we know what happens to witches round these parts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 00:49
|
|
|
Yeah, if they pray the right way they get sanctioned.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 00:52
|
|
|
Wasn't one of the examples dodging a titan's footfall? That pretty strongly implies dodging stuff you couldn't possibly make it out of the area from otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 00:52
|
|
|
Pharmaskittle posted:Wasn't one of the examples dodging a titan's footfall? That pretty strongly implies dodging stuff you couldn't possibly make it out of the area from otherwise. Well, if you were near the edge of where the Titan would stomp, or at the edge of the massive explosion, you could actually dodge it and be fine. Of course, this also means if a normal guardsman was next to assassin during the massive explosion, the assassin would backflip a few meters away and be fine while the guardsman would get pasted by the explosion, because he wouldn't have a chance to dodge. Not sure how the physics work where you can be far enough away from an explosion to not take any damage while a guy a meter away takes full damage, but Warhammer 40k.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:01
|
|
|
Astus posted:Well, if you were near the edge of where the Titan would stomp, or at the edge of the massive explosion, you could actually dodge it and be fine. Of course, this also means if a normal guardsman was next to assassin during the massive explosion, the assassin would backflip a few meters away and be fine while the guardsman would get pasted by the explosion, because he wouldn't have a chance to dodge. Not sure how the physics work where you can be far enough away from an explosion to not take any damage while a guy a meter away takes full damage, but Warhammer 40k. Any character gets a chance to dodge if they're at the edge of an area attack, so your interpretation would make the assassin's "dodge whatever" rule meaningless. I definitely think it should be up to the DM what's reasonable and what's not (no you can't dodge a virus bombing), but fluffing "yeah you jump in a refrigerator as the napalm hits" or whatever doesn't seem too insane to me if you keep in mind that assassins are part of an expansion that is meant to be "epic."
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:13
|
|
|
My reading of it is that it gives the player carte blanche to say "But I'm a super-human assassin, can't I just..." and plead their case in situations where other players would have no option but to suck it up and burn fate points. edit - Less of a mechanical effect, more of a metagame one. A Vindicare is meant to be exceptionally hard to kill, so it stands to reason they should survive things they have no right surviving, as long as the DM agrees they could. If the DM says "You stood in the middle of that target and called down the macrocannon barrage, you're dead", it doesn't matter what dice you roll. If they say "There's a massive explosion as the ammo stored in the Titan's left leg cooks off and annihilates everything within 50 metres" and the player says "Ah, but my superhuman senses let me hear the sound of the first few rounds going off and my stupidly high agility lets me duck into the cover of that burnt out heavy tank so I should get a dodge", then gently caress it, give them the dodge. goatface fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:16
|
|
|
Pharmaskittle posted:Any character gets a chance to dodge if they're at the edge of an area attack, so your interpretation would make the assassin's "dodge whatever" rule meaningless. I definitely think it should be up to the DM what's reasonable and what's not (no you can't dodge a virus bombing), but fluffing "yeah you jump in a refrigerator as the napalm hits" or whatever doesn't seem too insane to me if you keep in mind that assassins are part of an expansion that is meant to be "epic." If he's within 10km of a spaceship departing the planet at the time of the virus bombing, I'd give them the roll. Though, honestly the description for making the dodge and for burning a fate point would be pretty much the same there. "That was a decoy, and you were already on the shuttle going off-world."
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:19
|
|
|
Cool, thanks guys.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:34
|
|
|
apostateCourier posted:If he's within 10km of a spaceship departing the planet at the time of the virus bombing, I'd give them the roll. Though, honestly the description for making the dodge and for burning a fate point would be pretty much the same there. "That was a decoy, and you were already on the shuttle going off-world." This is one of the reasons it'd be group dependant, since as hilarious as this is it probably wouldn't fly with mine, despite our games being like Saturday morning cartoons.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:50
|
|
|
apostateCourier posted:If he's within 10km of a spaceship departing the planet at the time of the virus bombing, I'd give them the roll. Though, honestly the description for making the dodge and for burning a fate point would be pretty much the same there. "That was a decoy, and you were already on the shuttle going off-world." Tamper with the dice, turn it into a Nurgle-focused BC game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 01:51
|
|
|
B.B. Rodriguez posted:What about an extra boob/dick from Slaanesh or a giant blade where your arm used to be from Khorne? Teezey mutates you for the sake of mutating you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 02:07
|
|
|
Is a titan's foot fall an area attack? There might be grooves or vents lucky characters could find in the foot print. But yeah a game breaking character like that will always boil down to "get your group to agree on something." Personally I'd say that an explosion too big for him to move out of is worthy of isnta-killing one of them because such an explosion would be HUUUUGE. I dunno what their movement rate is but we're not talking about a frag missile here. Could anyone please give me a few quick answers about the new Dark Hersey. I'll go look the release date (if there is one) myself but I'm curious how the rules are faring these days. Last time I checked they were doing away with wounds and generally making big, big departures from the now standardized "black crusade" style combat. That still going on? Edit-One other input in the nerdy contention that is the Ascension Assassin is that video games/rpgs will always play up the single man's ability to do stuff.I mean come on pinnacle of humanity or not it's still just a dude. This is like in Mass Effect 3 when Harbinger shoots at Shepard and fails to kill him/her. It's just a fiction thing. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 02:08
|
|
|
For planning ahead in Only War, what's a good xp total at which to be saying "Welp, time to wrap up the campaign."?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 05:10
|
|
|
Rockopolis posted:For planning ahead in Only War, what's a good xp total at which to be saying "Welp, time to wrap up the campaign."? Whatever point where they're not constantly making GBS threads themselves and terrified for their very lives.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 05:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:27 |
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Is a titan's foot fall an area attack? There might be grooves or vents lucky characters could find in the foot print. But yeah a game breaking character like that will always boil down to "get your group to agree on something." Personally I'd say that an explosion too big for him to move out of is worthy of isnta-killing one of them because such an explosion would be HUUUUGE. I dunno what their movement rate is but we're not talking about a frag missile here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2013 15:09
|
|