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Cantorsdust posted:This is pretty much all I needed to hear. Keldorn's great, and I would hate to lose him.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:35
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Skwirl posted:If you get the thief stronghold (being an outpost for the Shadow Thieves) you have options of making money off theft, slavery and assassination, so I don't know exactly why they are considered "less evil." As for the "you turn on the vampires" argument, that requires metagame knowledge and only really comes about when Bodhi betrays you. And one could argue that since the PC quickly moves on out of Amn after killing Bodhi, any surviving vampires might be able to regain their rule over the underworld with the Shadow Thieves destroyed.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:44
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LibbyM posted:Is it normal/okay to be going into the Nashkel mines with my party all being level 1 except jaheira? It's been a while since I really played bg1. I'd hesitate to take on kobold commandos at level one, especially if you have mages in the party. One unlucky arrow can take them out early on. Have you gone through and done some of the quests in Friendly Arms Inn and Beregost? Some of them are easy and require no combat, like getting that book for Firebead.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:52
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Factor_VIII posted:You are effectively surrendering the city to a horde of unholy monsters that need to feed on humans just to survive. The Shadow Thieves are criminals, but at least they aren't evil by nature. And they aren't as much a threat as vampires to normal humans. I don't have a huge issue with it, and it does fit the whole DnD "Some creatures are just eeeevil" thing. I just don't see exactly how sucking blood is inherently more evil than being a murder or pimp. Don't get me wrong, Bodhi's loving evil, and the destroy them both thing I think works best as a nice surprise rather than playing with metagame knowledge. And I don't get why Keldorn is totally cool with working for the Shadow Thieves, but quits if you side with Bodhi, especially since all her tasks are loving up the Shadow Thieves, who are a bunch of murderers and slavers.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:52
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Did BG2:EE introduce any new kits or just the same ones that were in BG1:EE?
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Nov 23, 2013 02:52
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Keldorn isn't totally cool with working for the Shadow Thieves, he only very reluctantly agrees for the sake of Imoen and warns you not to do anything too drastic.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:54
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LibbyM posted:Is it normal/okay to be going into the Nashkel mines with my party all being level 1 except jaheira? It's been a while since I really played bg1.
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Nov 23, 2013 02:56
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Skwirl posted:I don't have a huge issue with it, and it does fit the whole DnD "Some creatures are just eeeevil" thing. I just don't see exactly how sucking blood is inherently more evil than being a murder or pimp. Don't get me wrong, Bodhi's loving evil, and the destroy them both thing I think works best as a nice surprise rather than playing with metagame knowledge. And I don't get why Keldorn is totally cool with working for the Shadow Thieves, but quits if you side with Bodhi, especially since all her tasks are loving up the Shadow Thieves, who are a bunch of murderers and slavers. As for Keldorn, he outright says that he's barely holding back from attacking them and only does so because of Imoen. He also says that he wants to come back to the Shadow Thief HQ with a bunch of paladins after Imoen is rescued and clear house. Factor_VIII fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 23, 2013 |
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Nov 23, 2013 03:07
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Factor_VIII posted:This is a game with absolute Good and Evil. It has demons and angels in it after all. I don't see anything wrong with ambulatory corpses that feed on the living being inherently evil. In D&D, just as vampirism give a person fangs, it also twists his mindset into that of a bloodthirsty monster. That makes a little more sense, it'd been a while since I played and my last time didn't use Keldorn. They should have fixed the bug where you can't kill Aran Linvall in Chapter 6 (maybe they did, I've never tried it, but I've seen people complain about it in this thread) in that case, since one of your party members suggests it. Hell that'd be a cool little minquest on your return.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:19
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Factor_VIII posted:The Shadow Thieves are criminals, but at least they aren't evil by nature.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:23
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Skwirl posted:That makes a little more sense, it'd been a while since I played and my last time didn't use Keldorn. They should have fixed the bug where you can't kill Aran Linvall in Chapter 6 (maybe they did, I've never tried it, but I've seen people complain about it in this thread) in that case, since one of your party members suggests it. Hell that'd be a cool little minquest on your return.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:25
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Skwirl posted:I don't have a huge issue with it, and it does fit the whole DnD "Some creatures are just eeeevil" thing. I just don't see exactly how sucking blood is inherently more evil than being a murder or pimp. Don't get me wrong, Bodhi's loving evil, and the destroy them both thing I think works best as a nice surprise rather than playing with metagame knowledge. And I don't get why Keldorn is totally cool with working for the Shadow Thieves, but quits if you side with Bodhi, especially since all her tasks are loving up the Shadow Thieves, who are a bunch of murderers and slavers. Look at it this way. In the status quo, the Shadow Thieves are are a parasitic organization that feeds on everyone in Athkatla, and beyond, metaphorically. In a possible future, Bodhi and her vampires feed on everyone in Athkatla, and beyond, literally. One is a standard human civilization with the attendant corruption and one is a farming operation with humans as livestock.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:28
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The game definitely presents the shadow thieves as the "lesser of two evils" option, I think there's actually a dialogue option that says explicitly that when Bodhi offers you the cheaper rate. All the evil NPCs suggest you take her offer, all the good NPCs (except Anomen) say that she gives them a bad vibe and not to take it. Most fantasy settings romanticise thieves guild-type organisations into good guys against corrupt/ineffective/powerless authorities.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:53
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fong posted:Most fantasy settings romanticise thieves guild-type organisations into good guys against corrupt/ineffective/powerless authorities. The Shadow Thieves are definitely not good guys - you walk in on them merrily torturing people for one. But better mere criminals than predatory undead.
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Nov 23, 2013 03:56
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Psh, the Shadow Thieves basically jerk you around on the Imoen situation from the start, extort you, and when you finally meet up with them in person are utter jerks. Bodhi may be a monster, but at that point in the game, she comes across as far more reasonable.
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Nov 23, 2013 04:00
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In general, my issue with it isn't so much that Bodhi isn't as evil as people say, because she's almost literally the devil, I just don't think the Shadow Thieves are any better. I guess it works in a "Devil you know" sense, but still, a truly good person wouldn't work with either of them, and someone more morally flexible wouldn't see that much of a difference. Edit: ^^^Also this^^^
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Nov 23, 2013 04:04
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DeathChicken posted:Psh, the Shadow Thieves basically jerk you around on the Imoen situation from the start, extort you, and when you finally meet up with them in person are utter jerks. Bodhi may be a monster, but at that point in the game, she comes across as far more reasonable. Skwirl posted:I guess it works in a "Devil you know" sense, but still, a truly good person wouldn't work with either of them, and someone more morally flexible wouldn't see that much of a difference.
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Nov 23, 2013 04:17
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Factor_VIII posted:Aran seemed pretty reasonable to me. Factor_VIII posted:In the process of course the truly good person would be leaving Imoen to rot in Spellhold forever.
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Nov 23, 2013 05:28
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Skwirl posted:For a murderous, slave owning pimp Why? Sometimes you don't get to have it your way. BG2 already caters to good aligned characters to a ludicrous degree, I don't see it as being a big deal that this one time there is no option that's all smiles and rainbows.
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Nov 23, 2013 05:51
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Skwirl posted:For a murderous, slave owning pimp Seems like a completely fitting and in-character dilemma for a child of the god of murder. Bioware had a specific story they wanted to tell in this case. A third path would be pretty cool, I'll admit though.
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Nov 23, 2013 05:56
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Skwirl posted:Theoretically, a branching RPG should have an option for someone who is role playing someone who doesn't want to work with a murderous, slave owning pimp, or a vampire, murderous, slave owning pimp Really? I think its cool an RPG offered a choice that was more complicated than "Be nice" (+1 Light Side points) or "Be an rear end in a top hat!" (+1 Dark Side points). Sometimes you have to choose between two bad options.
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Nov 23, 2013 06:55
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rakovsky maybe posted:Really? I think its cool an RPG offered a choice that was more complicated than "Be nice" (+1 Light Side points) or "Be an rear end in a top hat!" (+1 Dark Side points). Sometimes you have to choose between two bad options.
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Nov 23, 2013 07:33
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Baron Bifford posted:Yah, that's cool, because real life is life that sometimes. I just wish the invincible assassin stopped spawning after Spellhold so that I could wipe out the Shadow Thieves. If you feel like exploiting the engine a little you can stat kill him with shapechange->mind flayer. He has lovely saves against its mindblast attack too.
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Nov 23, 2013 07:36
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I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times... but I'm sort of new to BG2 (I've started playing it a dozen times but never went too far). I am basically familiar with the game mechanics. I just bought BG2:EE and think I'll seriously play through it this time. My problem is that I have never liked managing a party - is it possible and fun to play through with just one character? Maybe two would be ok if that's fun. If so, any recommendations? I heard something about making a kensai, 5 points into quarterstaves, and going to get the staff of magi right in the beginning? Thanks.
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Nov 23, 2013 07:54
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When I was like 12 playing this game I'd get annoyed at my team members getting touchy about working with the Shadow Thieves. I'm a thief ok. Yoshimo is a thief. Jan is a thief. Imoen, the girl we are going to go rescue is a thief. These guys have been constantly friendly to us and never tried any poo poo. Get over yourselves jeez. They are thieves and they are asking for money, well either they are all really bad thieves or they want to see what we can do. I doubt we are funding a holocaust here.
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Nov 23, 2013 08:05
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Their price is ridiculous (Why can't I shop around for passage? Athkatla is a major port!) and they make you jump through additional surprise hoops, but yeah, they don't screw you over.Tenacious J posted:I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times...
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Nov 23, 2013 08:29
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Soloing effectively requires knowing the game pretty well, unless you don't mind precisely following a walkthrough for this kind of thing. What's so bad about managing a party anyway? You can always try having a smaller party, say 3-4 characters. Have a thief, a mage and a cleric and you should do ok with no foreknowledge required.
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Nov 23, 2013 09:00
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Tenacious J posted:I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times... Most any class can solo, depending on knowledge of the game, and some are very very powerful, including Kensai/Mage, Kensai/Thief, Fighter/Mage/Thief, Ranger/Cleric, and Wild Mage off the top of my head. As previous posters said though, it's not nearly the same experience, and you really should know what you're doing.
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Nov 23, 2013 09:09
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Yeah I'd say a better solution is to fill up your party with a bunch of fighter types and just let them do their thing while you focus on managing the spellcasters.
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Nov 23, 2013 09:10
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Factor_VIII posted:Vampires are ambulatory corpses that feed on the living. Yes but is it okay to gently caress one
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Nov 23, 2013 09:30
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Tenacious J posted:but I'm sort of new to BG2 (I've started playing it a dozen times but never went too far). I am basically familiar with the game mechanics. I just bought BG2:EE and think I'll seriously play through it this time. My problem is that I have never liked managing a party - is it possible and fun to play through with just one character? Maybe two would be ok if that's fun. You can dual class a Kensai to a mage and you'd certainly be able to solo the game - or take a support character with you like Anomen or Aerie. You can solo the game with any class. I did a paladin team up once and strolled through with my Undead Hunter and Keldorn. If you dislike micromanaging a party but want as many gameplay options as possible you might want to do a multiclass character like a Cleric/Thief or Fighter/Druid. You can multiclass as 3 classes, for instance a Fighter/Mage/Thief but this might not be ideal unless you also have an experience cap remover mod. Factor_VIII posted:any surviving vampires
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Nov 23, 2013 09:46
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Noticed in this in the BG2EE patch notes "7076: Weapon Mastery (as well as High Mastery and Grand Mastery) now grants the correct (as advertised) bonuses to THAC0, Damage, and APR." That is a nice fix.
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Nov 23, 2013 09:55
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I'm getting a lot of invalid numbers with some conversations in my BG 2:EE game. Did they patch it? I know that can mess up dialogue strings.
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Nov 23, 2013 11:46
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Saki posted:I'm getting a lot of invalid numbers with some conversations in my BG 2:EE game. Did they patch it? I know that can mess up dialogue strings. Are you using a mod pack that changes/adds to one of the existing companions like neera or rasaad? If you are you need to reinstall it after the game patches.
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Nov 23, 2013 11:56
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Draile posted:Beamdog didn't even want to release on Steam because of the cut that Valve takes from every Steam transaction. Plus there was some contractual hiccup, apparently now fixed, that required the Steam version to get routed through Atari. Beamdog only begrudgingly released on Steam when they realized that people refused to buy the game through the app store or their own proprietary platform. Yeah. I suspect the reason they aren't selling the OSX version on Steam is because they never will. If they ever did Valve would force them to combine the platform licenses and Beamdog has no intention of doing so. It's pretty obnoxious.
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Nov 23, 2013 11:59
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King Doom posted:Are you using a mod pack that changes/adds to one of the existing companions like neera or rasaad? If you are you need to reinstall it after the game patches. I installed the banter pack, and I think the conversation with the invalid numbers happened in a banter. It also happened with the dungeon-be-gone guy.
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Nov 23, 2013 12:16
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Captain Oblivious posted:Why? Sometimes you don't get to have it your way. BG2 already caters to good aligned characters to a ludicrous degree, I don't see it as being a big deal that this one time there is no option that's all smiles and rainbows. You're going to have to give the player lovely / precarious choices at some point. Adding a high road to every choice sucks because in RPGs they are always (always) the best option. If you're going to add the Radiant Heart as freighters to Spellhold then you might as well cut the Bodhi and Linvail routes because only heroically stupid PCs would fail to realize that both are lying through their teeth, don't share your goals or concerns in the slightest, and are probably plotting against you in some fashion.
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Nov 23, 2013 13:32
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Tenacious J posted:I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times... If you already have basic familiarity with the game mechanics, going solo is a great way to learn how to master the game. Just about any class is possible, but some of the easier options are any multiclass involving mage or cleric (seriously, every combination has gamebreaking potential) as well as dual class kensai/mage or ranger/cleric.
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Nov 23, 2013 13:43
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Baron Bifford posted:Their price is ridiculous (Why can't I shop around for passage? Athkatla is a major port!) and they make you jump through additional surprise hoops, but yeah, they don't screw you over. Iggles posted:pft
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Nov 23, 2013 14:38
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I'm going for a "Team Holy-Rollers" with Me (Inquisitor), Keldorn, Anomen, Jaheira, Yoshimo (Until I get to Rasaad) and Aerie. Upon checking Anomen's proficiencies, I noticed he has two pips in spears. Is this something new and idiotic they added to BG2:EE, since he can't use spears, or is it a bug?
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Nov 23, 2013 14:45
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