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I don't see how anyone can like the E. Others, maybe, but Galaxy Class all the way.  (Except as a pizza cutter)
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Nov 24, 2013 21:35
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There is some designer stuff in there. There is also 'these control panels are six feet from the floor' or 'this writing is so high no-one could read it' or 'there are 4 billion lights in this shot, but for some reason we have more lights at literally eye level that would be blinding you as you walked along'. It's dumb poo poo. Like Into the Darkness is nearly 2 hours of dumb poo poo. 'This isn't your Dad's Trek!', no kidding, because Dad wouldn't get all spergy about something if it was this dumb and meaningless. TMP's slow rear end shots of the Enterprise with the orchestra is the actual definition of spaceship porn, primarily because it's not dumb poo poo.
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Nov 24, 2013 21:36
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Actually the 30 minute long (estimated) flyby of the Enterprise is one of the worst things about that film, next to the awkward PHOOOOOTOOOOOOOON TORPEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOES scene. If I were to recut that film I'd lose a lot of the baggage at the front because the film is actually really cool once they get to V'ger. Also there's plenty of starship porn throughout the movie including scenes of the Enterprise literally penetrating V'ger's orifices.
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Nov 24, 2013 21:41
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I can't stand the argument of "Only a designer has problems with this design, so I don't care!". It's like saying "A plumber said there's a problem with my plumbing, but I can't see any problems, so I don't care!". If you actually don't understand plumbing and are admitting to it, wouldn't it be best to listen to someone who's an actual plumber with experience?
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Nov 24, 2013 21:47
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You'd take the 'flying over V'ger' scene over the initial unveiling of the Enterprise? Ok, we may communicate the same language through the Federation of the Forums, but we are entirely different species. Also, Probert points out no deck plates. I thought.. that's a bit detailed.. who cares if the floor looks like an unbroken piece of glass. Then hang on.. it's a ship. This matters if you enjoy watching scifi about spaceships - rather than 90210 in Space. All the lights and shiny floor would enable the lead actors to check their angles at any time!
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Nov 24, 2013 21:50
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duck monster posted:Give it a JJ Trek sense of aesthetics (love or hate JJ, the two JJ trek films *look* loving amazing, lensflare sillyness notwithstanding), a Babylon 5 sense of story arc, maybe throw in some of the gritty realism of BSG and then put it in the mainline star trek continuum, possibly post dominion war , focusing around the Romulan threat and you'd have my perfect trek. Star Trek" Renegades should be right up your alley then! ugh JJTrek sucks by the way sorry
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Nov 24, 2013 21:54
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Apple Jax posted:I can't stand the argument of "Only a designer has problems with this design, so I don't care!". It's like saying "A plumber said there's a problem with my plumbing, but I can't see any problems, so I don't care!". If you actually don't understand plumbing and are admitting to it, wouldn't it be best to listen to someone who's an actual plumber with experience? The problem is that good plumbing is not open to as much interpretation as good design is, comparing the two is really dumb. Tony Montana posted:This matters if you enjoy watching scifi about spaceships - rather than 90210 in Space. All the lights and shiny floor would enable the lead actors to check their angles at any time! I like how you're such a fuddy-duddy that your best insult is to compare JJtrek to a show that's about as old as TNG. I mean there's plenty of other shows you could've compared it to that were made in the last decade. But you went to 90210, a show that is completely not like any incarnation of Star Trek featuring actors (in either incarnation) that aren't as good as the actors in any Star Trek and that looks nothing like any Star Trek series. Like you might as well compare it to HIMYM or something as "YOUNG PEOPLE poo poo I DON'T LIKE," it'd be an equally worthless opinion.
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Nov 24, 2013 21:58
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Andrew Probert, upon seeing JJ's bridge posted:GEEEEZZEEE LOUISE there isn't one area that isn't cluttered with CRAP. "Plain" obviously isn't in this guy's vocabulary. Maybe this way-too-over-designed- set looks the way it does in order to cram in another set of lights... I mean, ya gotta have some excuse for more lens flairs, right? Obviously a great cost-effective set, needing only two colors: dark grey and darker grey but the electric bill,... wow. Remember the days when the actors stood out and the set was the background? God I love this guy 
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Nov 24, 2013 22:00
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Apple Jax posted:I can't stand the argument of "Only a designer has problems with this design, so I don't care!". It's like saying "A plumber said there's a problem with my plumbing, but I can't see any problems, so I don't care!". If you actually don't understand plumbing and are admitting to it, wouldn't it be best to listen to someone who's an actual plumber with experience? Adding to what 1st AD said, Probert's complaints, if one were to continue using your plumbing analogy, is akin to complaining about the colour and curvature of the pipes used in the plumbing.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:01
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Lmao he actually complains that they spent too much money on sets and lighting. Jesus Christ he's a baby
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Nov 24, 2013 22:08
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Tony Montana posted:There is also 'these control panels are six feet from the floor' If you have a microwave mounted over your stove, it's control panel is five and a half to six feet from the floor.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:29
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Apple Store Trek's design is dumb as gently caress, cluttered, and ugly, and makes no sense as a spaceship, and hardly any sense as a movie set because it's so loving busy.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:30
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If it weren't for the ship's underbite I could deal with it. And the wobbly nacelle pylons.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:36
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Actually it makes perfect sense as a space ship because the space ship does a billion things and there are probably a corresponding number of work stations to look at telemetry and control/monitor ship functions. As a movie set it makes sense to pack everything in there because the cinematographer will want to do compositions like a closeup of an actor while a ton of the set and other actors are visible in the frame. Also because the set itself is almost overlit with built-in light sources it makes it easier to do dynamic camera movements through the set as the actors walk through without having to worry about flags and lights being in the way.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:36
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I always thought the galaxy class bridge was too spacious, lots of wasted space. I liked the refit bridge for Generations though.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:42
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1st AD posted:Actually it makes perfect sense as a space ship because the space ship does a billion things and there are probably a corresponding number of work stations to look at telemetry and control/monitor ship functions. None of this is either how Apple design or set design works but keep thinking you're a master of everything you watched for two hours on a movie screen  E: someone once said that the JJtrek versions of the characters aren't themselves but rather their cranked-to-11 pop culture versions; that pretty much goes for every aspect of everything in the entire production, for good or ill. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 22:51
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McSpanky posted:None of this is either how Apple design or set design works but keep thinking you're a master of everything you watched for two hours on a movie screen This is like the worst criticism of my words I have ever seen in this thread, and I say LOTS of stupid poo poo.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:01
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Sash! posted:If you have a microwave mounted over your stove, it's control panel is five and a half to six feet from the floor. How much do you read your microwave? As for 1st AD, best thing for you is the Ignore List. I clicked on your profile to do it, and you're a Project Manger! One that is so proud of being a PM that you list it on your SA profile! Ah well, I can see you're a professional of spewing meaningless poo poo, I have this handy feature to prevent you spewing any more at me 
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Nov 24, 2013 23:02
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Nov 24, 2013 23:05
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Did somebody say something?
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Nov 24, 2013 23:08
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1st AD posted:Never trust the opinions of a designer who thought that a hotel lobby was a good starting point for designing the interiors of a spaceship. At the end of the day when the Executive Producer says "make it look warm and comfortable and inviting" you kinda have to do what he says. 1st AD posted:Actually the 30 minute long (estimated) flyby of the Enterprise is one of the worst things about that film, next to the awkward PHOOOOOTOOOOOOOON TORPEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOES scene. The hilarious thing is that wormhole distortion scene took them days to shoot and it was a gigantic pain in the rear end the whole way through.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:15
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Adding someone to your ignore list because he disagreed with you over Star Trek? That's Kazon-level lame.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:24
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Vagabundo posted:Adding someone to your ignore list because he disagreed with you over Star Trek? That's Kazon-level lame. People who don't share their technology do not deserve it.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:30
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Vagabundo posted:Adding someone to your ignore list because he disagreed with you over Star Trek? That's Kazon-level lame. Nope, you also disagreed. As did others, but the difference is I think 1st AD is a dick and don't wish to hear him anymore.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:34
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Timby posted:That designer gave us the Enterprise refit, also known as the most beautiful ship in the history of anything. And the Delorean from Back to the Future, and the original Cylon Centurions, and a bunch of stuff from Tron, and so on. Andrew Probert seems to own pretty hard professionally speaking so I'm inclined to take his explanations of why silly, amateur hour poo poo looks silly at face value, rather than assuming he's just some butthurt grandpa. I mean, "hotel lobby" is not the first thing I typically think of when I imagine spacecraft interiors, but I can see why a thoughtful artist might look at them as inspiration for a futuristic living and working space for a crew of more than a thousand people. As opposed to modern sci-fi spacecraft interiors, which often leave me wondering how long one could live in an environment like that before suffering some sort of manic episode or aneurysm. It's that distinct lack of thoughtfulness in JJTrek's art design which contributes to everything looking unattractive and foolish.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:44
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Tony Montana posted:Nope, you also disagreed. As did others, but the difference is I think 1st AD is a dick and don't wish to hear him anymore. Yeah, it's not the disagreeing that's lame.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:54
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 this thread
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Nov 25, 2013 00:09
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Apple Jax posted:What planet do you guys come from? It's the planet of bad starship opinions, isn't it? Oh, I see how it is. Nazi Planet and Gangster Planet are okay but if you like the Ent-E then prepare for a thread full of ridicule.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:11
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1st AD posted:Realtalk the JJtrek Enterprise looks better than the Refit Connie 1st AD posted:I say LOTS of stupid poo poo.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:14
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Delsaber posted:This scene could be one of the most unsung in franchise history, especially if you include Kirk and McCoy's lines immediately after the cut. It makes the movie for me, every single time. Also, I love randomly quoting Kruge in my best Christopher Lloyd voice: "Get ouuut! Get ouuuut of theeeeere!" No one ever gets the reference though, just like no one ever gets my favourite Riker lines "those aren't muskets!" or "they're carving us up like a roast!" This must be a nerd thing because I do that poo poo too. Well not the Riker lines. Although in certain fitting situations when someone will go 'gimmie a minute' i'll respond with "I give ... TWO MINUTES for you and your gallant crew."
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Nov 25, 2013 00:21
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Tighclops posted:I mean, "hotel lobby" is not the first thing I typically think of when I imagine spacecraft interiors, but I can see why a thoughtful artist might look at them as inspiration for a futuristic living and working space for a crew of more than a thousand people. As opposed to modern sci-fi spacecraft interiors, which often leave me wondering how long one could live in an environment like that before suffering some sort of manic episode or aneurysm. It's that distinct lack of thoughtfulness in JJTrek's art design which contributes to everything looking unattractive and foolish. You should feel lucky you've never had to serve in the military anywhere, because the spartan interiors of Battlestar Galactica or similar designs lool/feel like McMansions compared to what someone in the Navy has to put up with while on deployment.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:22
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1st AD posted:This is like the worst criticism of my words I have ever seen in this thread, and I say LOTS of stupid poo poo. I don't know how to get more basic than "bad opinion is bad, also factually incorrect". Your low standards are crazy high.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:26
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I have low standards, also they are very high, gotcha. Also my facts are incorrect, please elaborate. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The hilarious thing is that wormhole distortion scene took them days to shoot and it was a gigantic pain in the rear end the whole way through. I bet they all had to get high as poo poo in order to get in character for that scene.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:43
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1st AD posted:You should feel lucky you've never had to serve in the military anywhere, because the spartan interiors of Battlestar Galactica or similar designs lool/feel like McMansions compared to what someone in the Navy has to put up with while on deployment. Nothing would change between a modern capitalist nation's armed forces and the quasi post scarcity paramilitary Starfleet, operated by an organization of 150 alien cultures and filled out by humans who have moved past the need to hoarde poo poo like a rat and wail on each other over dumb crap like money? On the other hand if I were an art design guy for a show featuring a purely and conventionally military vessel and setting like BSG, I would definitely look at military equipment and vehicles to get a feel for them.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:58
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1st AD posted:You should feel lucky you've never had to serve in the military anywhere, because the spartan interiors of Battlestar Galactica or similar designs lool/feel like McMansions compared to what someone in the Navy has to put up with while on deployment. I think there's something in the point that when you are in a machine that travels by tearing apart the fabric of reality and putting it back together behind you that our current conceptions of utilitarian design might not be important anymore. The JJ Enterprise is definitely designed to avoid the claustrophobic feel that old Trek had. I think the thing I like most is that central atrium-like area where all the decks are open to each other because it's the kind of thing that I imagine a future space-engineer designing to stop people getting cabin fever.
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Nov 25, 2013 01:10
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I like to imagine the design concerns of Starfleet would be similar to the design concerns of the people who made the new Winterover station at the South Pole. Incidentally, it's quite comfortable with big slabs of bright primary colour along the walls everywhere to keep people visually stimulated. It's very TOSlike.
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Nov 25, 2013 01:28
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Farecoal posted:
This is a gif of me posting IRL
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Nov 25, 2013 01:31
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Timby posted:That designer gave us the Enterprise refit, also known as the most beautiful ship in the history of anything. The outside, maybe. I've always hated the brown molded plastic look of the interior.
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Nov 25, 2013 01:53
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Kazy posted:I don't see how anyone can like the E. Others, maybe, but Galaxy Class all the way. I like the D the most but also like the E
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Nov 25, 2013 01:59
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The E looks really cool in movies. It's like, the D was all rounded and smooth, just like the largely vanilla, harmless Starfleet we see there. But the E is angular and aggressive, just like Dune Buggies and Plasma Floods and Forcibly Relocating Native Populations. The D would not have worked in the later films, nor would the E work on the show.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:03
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