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VDay posted:It's not like the remaining Woodbury redshirts are completely clueless about what happened with the governor and his attack on the prison. Are there any left? Besides the children Carol was with of course.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:14
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NESguerilla posted:What kind of tank was that anyways? I'm not a military expert by any means, but it didn't look like any sort of modern US tank I have seen. It looked Russian or Chinese or something to me. I think its an M60 Patton, but with a more modern turret than the one pictured here:  Was actually recently in Georgia visiting family and saw one of these parked in front of a Highschool for reasons. But I am having trouble finding a still of the tank from the show to compare against. VendoViper fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 21:18
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Everything up to him shanking the second leader dude was pretty good. I would much rather have had them play up the conflict between the two brothers and maybe have the governor encourage the bald one to take control and 'do what needs to be done' or something. Going from not wanting the crown to declaring himself the king in such a short period was not only really jarring but also removed a lot of the weight from Martinez' murder, which I thought was otherwise a really powerful moment. And now they're in an identical situation to last season; maybe they'll handle it better this time around but I seriously doubt it. New head aquarium is awesome though, and almost makes everything else worth it.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:19
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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VDay posted:It's not like the remaining Woodbury redshirts are completely clueless about what happened with the governor and his attack on the prison. Aren't they all dead due to that flu?
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Nov 25, 2013 21:40
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The REAL Gtab Fan posted:Are there any left? Besides the children Carol was with of course. There are none. All the Woodbury people were in that block, they all got infected. But that one girl. They wiped them out much faster than the prisoners from last season.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:41
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Not all of the Woodbury people who got sick died, so there may still be some in the cell block. There might also be a few old and young'uns in the quarantine area, and maybe even some healthy adults in there looking after the kids. Basically there's as many Woodbury folk left as the plot demands.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:49
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Astroman posted:I think the Governor has learned his lesson and won't allow them to talk. It's gonna be a quick blitzkrieg attack and massacre. I doubt it. He'll roll up with his army then it will cut to credits.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:55
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Yeah I'm kind of assuming that there are a couple left, but this show doesn't exactly have a strong history of being consistent with that kind of stuff so it wouldn't surprise me if we basically never hear from/about any of them again except maybe a scene of a bunch of them conveniently being killed in the governor's attack or something.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:55
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misguided rage posted:Everything up to him shanking the second leader dude was pretty good. I would much rather have had them play up the conflict between the two brothers and maybe have the governor encourage the bald one to take control and 'do what needs to be done' or something. Going from not wanting the crown to declaring himself the king in such a short period was not only really jarring but also removed a lot of the weight from Martinez' murder, which I thought was otherwise a really powerful moment.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:56
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Mexcillent posted:I mean I was pretty sure there was lots of tension last hour about what the Governor would do to the people he came across, I don't think he was "redeemed" but I do think he was humanized. He just happens to be a particularly lovely human. That episode humanized The Governor and reminded us that he was once a regular guy who lost family and that's how he got where he got. This episode reminded us that in order to protect himself and what he has he's willing to do and hurt anyone. And in fact he revels in the act because he's a sick man. It didn't get us anywhere new and I can understand why people are annoyed by that, but it wasn't intended to. It was just meant to remind us of who the Governor is and flesh him out before they seemingly resolve what Season 3 left for them. Krowley posted:Why the hell did he kill Martinez? Did I miss some sort of ultra-subtle motive? The guy seemed perfectly understanding about their past and even wanted to bring the governer in on the leadership, then SMACK golf club to the head out of nowhere. Baldbeard posted:Also, can we get some more women who are worth more than a good lay? Who are these women who have survived this far and are still useless? VDay posted:I mean, if you deliberately make their argument sound stupid and make them sound like bumbling idiots then I guess it's not very convincing. But having a dozen people come out of the prison and all say that the governor used to run their town until one day he convinced a bunch of them that the prison is evil and went to attack them, only to mercilessly slaughter his own people, would raise quite a few red flags for the guy who showed up and took over when the two guys previously in charge just happened to die in two days. Especially considering that Martinez told them that he and the governor used to be part of another community that had it pretty good. The point is that there's no reason for the Governor to give the prison people the chance to make this case. He's going to try and convince his new camp to go charging in guns blazing and take them all out. Its hard to appeal to reason when you're being shot at by people who have been convinced you're unreasonable. So its more than a little silly to bring this up as some kind of writing flaw. The Governor has two hurdles. (1) Convincing these people to slaughter a bunch of strangers and (2) Dealing with any survivors who know who he is. If he can accomplish (1) than your scenario probably never happens and he'll deal with (2) when he gets there.
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Nov 25, 2013 22:20
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Adeptus posted:Basically there's as many Woodbury folk left as the plot demands. Yup. As well as just as many needed silent sneaky zombies (cabin, one at a time, able to appear through walls) and zombies standing still behind laundry in tbe middle of a camp, and... This past episode had so very much pulled out of its rear end just to get us to the same point we were a half a season ago. Ugh.
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Nov 26, 2013 00:12
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The problem I have with the Governor isn't the character per se, it's how people react to him. Yeah Joe Toy is going to agree to help him when he has a gun to his face, but the moment he turns his back he should be dropping the Governor. Rational people don't agree to be lead by someone who's willing to murder anyone who looks remotely like a weakness or threat, because that person could be you at any point.
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Nov 26, 2013 00:34
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verybad posted:The Governor isn't a good man with a dark past slowly being nudged back in to his old ways, he's a mad man teetering on the edge. He's not saying he doesn't want the crown because he's refusing it, he's saying it because he is in denial and blames Martinez for being too weak and forcing him to take it. There's been a bunch of alcoholism references this season, and I think a similar kind of logic applies to the Governor's relationship with power. I don't think it's a coincidence that the characters were drinking beers a few scenes before the murdering, then shown a little tipsy in the one before and finally in the murdering scene Martinez passes a bottle of whiskey to the Governor. There's another reference to addiction in the episode as well, when the Governor offers the tank driver smokes (he's quit, and so is the Governor, or so he says). In that light, the rapid escalation serves the story better, I feel. I think that exploring 'wants power, but is in denial about wanting it' would have been an interesting angle to stick with, but they dropped it immediately in favour of 'yeah I definitely want that power'. Mostly I'm just upset they've reverted to the exact same plot as last season, when the last few episodes were really good while going in a different direction. misguided rage fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 00:36
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Did you see Martinez on TD, looking like a pimp. Trying his hardest to be a chin strokng philosopher.
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Nov 26, 2013 00:50
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misguided rage posted:I think that exploring 'wants power, but is in denial about wanting it' would have been an interesting angle to stick with, but they dropped it immediately in favour of 'yeah I definitely want that power'. Mostly I'm just upset they've reverted to the exact same plot as last season, when the last few episodes were really good while going in a different direction. I bet the mid-season finale ends with him getting away again, finding a third group, and repeating. 
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Nov 26, 2013 00:51
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misguided rage posted:I agree with you entirely up until that last sentence. He most definitely is a madman teetering on the edge, that's a great way of putting it. Unfortunately he goes directly from struggling and unhinged to the calm, collected evil kind of crazy that we've already seen for a whole season. Well, he was an addict jonesing for a fix and though he made an effort not succumb to it, he did. And how he is after, well that's just how he is when he's using.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:42
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Astroman posted:I thought this was a really deep episode. Alchenar posted:The problem I have with the Governor isn't the character per se, it's how people react to him. Yeah Joe Toy is going to agree to help him when he has a gun to his face, but the moment he turns his back he should be dropping the Governor. Rational people don't agree to be lead by someone who's willing to murder anyone who looks remotely like a weakness or threat, because that person could be you at any point.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:59
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Adeptus posted:Not all of the Woodbury people who got sick died, so there may still be some in the cell block. There might also be a few old and young'uns in the quarantine area, and maybe even some healthy adults in there looking after the kids. Basically there's as many Woodbury folk left as the plot demands. They'll be revealed as soon as we need someone to be eaten or shot by the governor during the incursion. Alchenar posted:The problem I have with the Governor isn't the character per se, it's how people react to him. Yeah Joe Toy is going to agree to help him when he has a gun to his face, but the moment he turns his back he should be dropping the Governor. Rational people don't agree to be lead by someone who's willing to murder anyone who looks remotely like a weakness or threat, because that person could be you at any point. I tend to agree with this. My line of thinking would be that I did ok without this rear end in a top hat who's just killed two on my friends. The first chance I get a hot weapon in my hands I'm going to end him. It's not like he's aversed to doing dirty work either, he was quick to suggest rolling up and jacking stuff from other people and put down a still-living dude with a knife to the dome. The only really jarring thing from this episode was the fact that an armed group was able to massacre a small camp of people using firearms and yet a group including three men of sound hearing couldn't hear one bit of commotion in a quiet forest. You'd hear the gun shots and probably screams kilometres away.
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Nov 26, 2013 02:02
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Well unfortunately my fears were realized with this episode.... I was hoping to see SOMETHING new with the Governor and his story arc, but now we're rebooting Season 3 except now he has a family? That's a big letdown. The last thing I really wanted to see was another Gov/Rick showdown over the prison yet again. It seemed like they were actually going somewhere with this episode until he summarily executed Martinez. I actually thought this made sense in a way, since of course Martinez was the only one alive who knew what the Gov did at Woodbury. But everything went off the rails after that, with not-Rick and not-Shane in the woods. I like Kirk Acevedo, but it's disappointing to see him basically taking Martinez's place as the Gov's number two. I hope he actually gets to do something other than follow the Governor, but I'm not counting on that. It just comes off as a waste of buildup for two episodes, to bring us right back to the end of the last season, zombie lake and all. I understand the idea of trying to set up a different motivation for his actions this time, but does that really need to involve him doing the same thing in the end? I think it would have been a bit easier to swallow if that zombie had managed to bite his new daughter, which would have better fleshed out the necessity of taking over the prison in his mind. I get that he's basically now on a straight line towards doing what he thinks he has to do in order to protect his new family, but I wish they could have set up a different conflict than one we've already had in essentially the same way. The Gov saw Rick as a threat to his stability and sense of order last season, and that clearly hasn't changed.
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Nov 26, 2013 02:22
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I'm talking about something from the 'Next episode on the Walking Dead' teaser from the end of this episode, so be warned: Did anyone else burst out laughing at Carl's 'I could end this right now?' I can't imagine that playing out in any way that doesn't immediately make me do this:  I swear the goddamn show is trolling us now.
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Nov 26, 2013 02:39
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I'm feeling like Herschel's number is up. We had that way to character focused episode with him that usually precedes horrible immediate death. Instead he survives it, get past being mentally shaken, and goes on a life affirming ride with Michonne? Sorry in this universe the Sword of Damocles is laser guided and upon missing its target Skynet simply sends a larger one back in time to get it right. So the show promises people going down next week. It also makes me think that Daryl will probably go down. Writers always love taking the dare to kill off popular characters and nothing like a good old fashioned hammer blow to suck on during the hiatus. Also I think we can say goodbye to the prison. Win, lose or draw if that tank has any rounds and gas left that prison will no longer be a safe haven for anyone. Fences crushed and walls blown out if not total structural failure if the tank fires off more than a few shells. Take your pick HEAT and SABOT rounds against a structure made of brick only ends one way. I will take my hats off to the writers if they are devious enough to think up that the tank comes with flechette shells. Hell even if the tank only had gas you just stack up your attackers behind it as it crashes through the fence. Might be just enough cover to exploit the gap and overtake the defenders. While the defenders have the advantage of fighting for their home the attackers are literally fighting for survival because living out in the wilderness is pretty much a death sentence as the show has established.
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Nov 26, 2013 02:53
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Jamesman posted:1. What was bad about Carol or Herschel? What made Michonne irredeemably lovely? Her history is saving Andrea, rightfully suspecting the gov from the get-go, trying to kill the gov, half-assedly joining Rick's crew, and now being a full member going on raids and saving lives like every episode. What am I missing? Carol was cool until she murdered two sick people like it was no thing. She could've easily waited a day or two and killed their zombie forms instead.
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Nov 26, 2013 03:11
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maninacape posted:What made Michonne irredeemably lovely? Her history is saving Andrea, rightfully suspecting the gov from the get-go, trying to kill the gov, half-assedly joining Rick's crew, and now being a full member going on raids and saving lives like every episode. What am I missing? Michonne used a scowl as her main form of communication all last season. This season, the writers are letting the actress act. You also forget that she didn't try to tell Andrea about the bullet holes in the truck, or whatever vehicle it was, that made her suspect that the national guard guys weren't already dead before the Governor got there. Maybe the writers weren't aware that everyone already thought Andrea was a dumbshit, but I don't think any of us would have been surprised if she blew off Michonne's concern in order to stay with the governor. And the story would have played out exactly the same, just without viewers being angry that Michonne was turning out to be written just as badly as Andrea. Edit: I like her now, though. I started having hope for the character when she got Carl's photo and that ugly cat ornament from the restaurant last season. Wasn't that Gimple's episode? Astroman posted:In the clip on Talking Dead the Governor said "they'll realize 2 of their people are missing" which leads me to believe he'll kill 2 of them outside the gates. Since Maggie is on Talking Dead next week along with a secret cast member, I'm betting her and the secret member bite it, and I bet that secret one is Herschel. Bored fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 03:26
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Scooter_McCabe posted:I'm feeling like Herschel's number is up. We had that way to character focused episode with him that usually precedes horrible immediate death. Instead he survives it, get past being mentally shaken, and goes on a life affirming ride with Michonne? Sorry in this universe the Sword of Damocles is laser guided and upon missing its target Skynet simply sends a larger one back in time to get it right. So the show promises people going down next week. It also makes me think that Daryl will probably go down. Writers always love taking the dare to kill off popular characters and nothing like a good old fashioned hammer blow to suck on during the hiatus. In the clip on Talking Dead the Governor said "they'll realize 2 of their people are missing" which leads me to believe he'll kill 2 of them outside the gates. Since Maggie is on Talking Dead next week along with a secret cast member, I'm betting her and the secret member bite it, and I bet that secret one is Herschel.
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Nov 26, 2013 03:26
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VendoViper posted:I think its an M60 Patton, but with a more modern turret than the one pictured here: I agree, I think it's an M60A1:   It's no longer in US service, even in the reserves, but hey, this is a show about zombies. Realistically, Joe Toye could teach someone to drive pretty easily, and he could TC/gun, with some hoss as a loader. Considering what they are up against, totally doable. It's not like they are engaging other tanks, they're attacking a building. Who cares if it takes forever to get a round off?
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Nov 26, 2013 03:51
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Astroman posted:In the clip on Talking Dead the Governor said "they'll realize 2 of their people are missing" which leads me to believe he'll kill 2 of them outside the gates. Since Maggie is on Talking Dead next week along with a secret cast member, I'm betting her and the secret member bite it, and I bet that secret one is Herschel. Spoilered speculation, just to be safe since it involves Talking Dead's death-seat. I think Maggie is about as safe as anyone else. The secret member is a complete goner, but I can't think of them announcing a guest ahead of time for an episode they get knocked off in. Are there any examples of them killing off a character that is known to be on Talking Dead that night prior to their character's death? I honestly can't think of any, but I was never specifically paying attention to that either.
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Nov 26, 2013 04:20
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Generic American posted:Spoilered speculation, just to be safe since it involves Talking Dead's death-seat. I can't remember who, beyond Martinez, has been in the death seat. I tried to look it up and just found a description of the talking dead episode after last season's finale. Why hasn't Yvette Nicole Brown been on this season of TD? She was funny. After seeing her pretty much say the same things that were being said in this thread, "Carl dropped that badge like he was dropping the mic", I was hoping to see her again. She also brought up some of the stuff that was frustrating the fans in the writing. Or maybe that's why they haven't brought her back...
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Nov 26, 2013 04:32
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FlamingLiberal posted:Well unfortunately my fears were realized with this episode.... I would've enjoyed the poo poo out of a long parallel story arc about the adventures of homeless Snake Plisskin on his path to redemption. It was great watching him nonchalantly dodge zombies and complete quests. It would've allowed us to see more of the world in a way the viewer hasn't since S1 due to the narrative being currently tethered to a large group trying to settle down.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:12
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Generic American posted:Spoilered speculation, just to be safe since it involves Talking Dead's death-seat. Well the other way to look at it, is who else could bite it that is related to Maggie, and based on the upcoming plot arc (that follows the comics a bit), theres a very easy bait and switch that could be pulled off
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Nov 26, 2013 05:17
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I'm more concerned about where they take the story post-standoff mid-season finale than who bites it. e: just removing the bottom half of my post and I'll move discussion to other thread. Libertine fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 05:25
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You guys know there is a spoiler thread to discuss spoilers, right?
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Nov 26, 2013 06:06
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Ugh, I know the financial reasons for staying on one place each season and or half a season, but god drat does it get boring seeing that prison over and over. Never read the graphic novels, is that how it goes?
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Nov 26, 2013 06:08
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blackmanjew posted:Ugh, I know the financial reasons for staying on one place each season and or half a season, but god drat does it get boring seeing that prison over and over. Yes.
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Nov 26, 2013 06:10
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Adeptus posted:Not all of the Woodbury people who got sick died, so there may still be some in the cell block. There might also be a few old and young'uns in the quarantine area, and maybe even some healthy adults in there looking after the kids. Basically there's as many Woodbury folk left as the plot demands. If I remember correctly, in the season 3 finale, when Rick and co. rolled up to the Woodbury wall, it was Tyreese and Sasha on guard duty. Karen popped out of cover and was screaming to them that the Governor massacred all the other people he'd taken for the prison assault. So there's at least two solid Woodbury people, with as many more as you need when plot demands.
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Nov 26, 2013 06:26
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I wish this whole deal with the Governor was the reason they removed the previous showrunner; I'd like to see him say that Kirkman wanted to use his ideas from the Rise of the Governor novel and to give the Governor a tank, it didn't fit the previous season and the showrunner was replaced with someone willing to do what Kirkman wanted. That's the only explanation I can come up with to understand this thing; I liked the sickness arc and I loved that Herschel episode and believe it is on the level of last season's "Clear" with Morgan. But we are back at the same place as the previous season, the Governor being really evil and ready to attack the prison, just this time there was no build up to make it exciting, it's just happening because it happened in the comics. I hope the second half of the season starts fresh and leaves the Governor in a prison ran over by zombies since he had to use the tank.
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Nov 26, 2013 13:57
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Dantu posted:
You are forgetting Season 1: Tanks aren't zombie proof!
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Nov 26, 2013 14:13
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radlum posted:I wish this whole deal with the Governor was the reason they removed the previous showrunner; I'd like to see him say that Kirkman wanted to use his ideas from the Rise of the Governor novel and to give the Governor a tank, it didn't fit the previous season and the showrunner was replaced with someone willing to do what Kirkman wanted. Yeah agreed, the comics weren't all that good and the more they get away from them the better. This sudden plot rehash has me worried that the brief moments of greatness we've had in this season are already over.
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Nov 26, 2013 14:25
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Green Crayons posted:Fixed that to reflect the part of the episode I just can't get past. Either he's so blindly afraid of leadership and its pitfalls that he's willing to create a vacuum in the leadership position (something that he shouldn't want to do!) out of a fit of fear-induced rage, or he's willing to take up the leadership mantle by way of bloodshed. I imagine he didn't want it. But when he saw how bad the leadership was in his mind, he decided he needs to take over or they'll all die. This season is doing the morality vs survival thing unlike last season where he was just evil for no reason but evil. Him killing who he did was his way of trying to survive. With Martinez, that guy knows what he did in the past and could tell everyone and get him booted, and the one nice guy, well, he has too much humanity to do what's needed to survive. The third he didn't kill just doesn't have the balls to lead after pussying out at the camp site. canuckanese posted:I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were in another room during the scenes where the bald brother mentioned that he was a tank operator in the army. Still it's gonna be a bitch. He needs to train people to drive, load and fire the thing or else he's just gonna have to work it all...and tanks aren't made for a lot of moving around inside. Driving one ain't like taking the family truck for a spin either as you tend to way a poo poo load more which means easier to sink in soft ground and can get stuck in really stupid places simply because the tracks dig you in deeper or you throw one. This ain't World of Tanks they've got here...or at least it shouldn't be SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 14:29
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SocketWrench posted:I imagine he didn't want it. But when he saw how bad the leadership was in his mind, he decided he needs to take over or they'll all die. Well, that's the Governor's opinion. And Shane's. And Carol's. But Rick has shown you can be a fair, moral leader who doesn't cheat, steal, or randomly gank people because you "have to." You can even have a democracy and keep people safe. The Prison was doing good up til now besides the Flu, and no amount of being tough can save you from that.
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Nov 26, 2013 14:33
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Red Crown posted:It was so paper thin though. They use one episode to establish that maybe he has a heart after all and take like half an hour to suggest that he's considered not murdering large numbers of people. And then he becomes exactly the same character he was. I didn't say it was 'good'. I do get that they were trying to be quick since they gotta get this thing taken care of, and frankly a whole season of "what's the governor up to now" isn't going to keep watchers or be very interesting. They skipped the months he was drifting and focused on the few weeks now that he's been socializing. I'm kind of waiting to see what he does to convince his new friends to go attack the prison. LinkesAuge posted:It's funny how everyone started rebelling as soon as the "good guy" wanted to take over leadership and they were calling for a vote but then they have no problem with the Governor suddenly becoming the leader despite being totally new to the camp. They do know he ran a town, after all, Martinez had told them how awesome it was rawdog pozfail posted:Tension? You mean there are people here who didn't choreograph basically everything beforehand assuming the Governor was the same exact character as before? So you didn't see the scene where the Governor rolls his body out of a carpet and shoves it into the lake? SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Nov 26, 2013 14:38
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