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Lotish posted:X-Com: Enemy Mine. Xcom soldier has to raise Sectoid baby. Make it one of those free form survival games.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:20
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Proposition Joe posted:If they're going to take sleeves away then they should add tattoo options. Yeah I'm really not a fan of how the gene mods turn all your guys, no matter the class, into dudes in ski boots and tank tops. You get like 9 choices of armor basically, with like 5 of them just being different shoulder/elbow pads that look goofy as hell.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:21
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Revenge of the Sleeves mod, and never look back.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:27
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sleeveless genemod commandos are the best you nerds are weird
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Nov 27, 2013 03:33
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Deuce posted:I'm working up the nerve to do an I/I now myself. It was bastardly hard in EU, and I'm thinking EW just might be worse.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:36
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I don't feel guilty about using NCE, personally. The game seems to be largely about mitigating what the RNG throws at you so having a few things in your favour, or more explicitly tied into your soldier growth, doesn't strike me as too weird.Woozy posted:sleeveless genemod commandos are the best you nerds are weird This man knows what's up. 
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Nov 27, 2013 03:42
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Mr. Wynand posted:I also think Meier/Gupta sort of over-value boardgame-ness a little much. I'm 100% with them in the general sense that the gameplay that can be reduced to a boardgame is ultimately what actually where the fun comes from, but at the same time, you also have to acknowledge that the player's expectations about the game world are very much informed by how abstract the game board looks. You look at an actual board game like Twilight Struggle and you give absolutely no fucks if it feels "unrealistic" because there's nothing real about it to begin with - it's all abstractions. But XCom, even way back in the DOS days presents as a concrete, tangible world. I actually really loved the real-time-ish combat of Apocalypse, it just fit so much better with how you expect the game to flow. I mean you see the whole "tactical" layout of any of the XCom games and you just know you want to set up a SWAT style "breach" with everyone pouring into the room with sniper cover at the exits and all that poo poo and Apoc really was the first game that let you do that properly while still giving you the tools necessary to stop the action and go "hmmm... now how shall we unfuck ourselves form this situation...". I always sort of suspected that XCOM:EU was prototyped as a very slight rewrite to D&D 3e because that's exactly how it plays in the early game and it's horrible. The best thing the expansion did was add MECs to smooth over the early game so you can get to the good poo poo in April but even then there's only a short, precious window of actually fun, engaging tactical combat until everything is a slugfest again once you're introduced to PSI powers. Edit: Along these lines, NCE is great for speeding things up, particularly with Absolutely Critical and Aiming Angles. It's technically "easier" if you game the system and don't take Hidden Potential as well but you shouldn't do that. It's actually kind of nice to randomly have low-will high-aim rookies since for the first time ever I actually give a poo poo about the squad leader mechanic. Woozy fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 03:44
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Emong posted:I don't know if he's actually finished yet, but Defenderofsoul on Twitch was very nearly done with one of those the last time I was watching. So I'd just like to point out that he won this game (and killed the uber Ethereal with a drone  ) and is currently doing another one with no squad size upgrades.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:04
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I just had my first real  moment earlier today. I was doing the first Slingshot mission where you have to escort Zhang to the Skyraider. I'd made it to the very end, Zhang was almost to the extraction site, there was only one Thin Man left, on practically the other side of the map. I figured Zhang wasn't close enough to trigger the Thin Man's overwatch and I was feeling impatient, so I had Zhang make a break for it to the extraction site. He reached it right before the overwatch triggered, so the game counted him as safely rescued right at the same time he got killed by the overwatch. Another successful operation, Commander!
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Nov 27, 2013 04:09
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I just bought Enemy Within today and while there is some new bling in the game, it's still the same old buggy as poo poo XCOM. First Meld mission and I'm standing right next to a Sectoid but ladder fuckery gives him high cover and I'm completely flanked. So of course I miss my shot and get critted in the face next turn. Never change XCOM, never change.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:19
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If you just started today you should have had, and used, a grenade.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:29
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One thing I do notice in those XCOM concept videos is there was an updated version of the old X-Com music. I guess that didn't pass for whatever reason.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:30
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Chard posted:If you just started today you should have had, and used, a grenade. Yeah, they're all rookies and suck at shooting. I already used my gernades on the other Sectoids. That was the last one in the mission. I clearly had him flanked so I should have had over a 100% chance to hit him. I had a 67% because the high cover the Sectoid had gave it 40% cover.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:31
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Chard posted:If you just started today you should have had, and used, a grenade. Haha. I'm imagining that this like a Fight Club thing where everyone who joins is forced to use their grenade on their first mission. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!
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Nov 27, 2013 04:37
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Fair enough, I've certainly burned through all my grenades early plenty of times. Guess I just had some snark built up from a busy day.Speedball posted:One thing I do notice in those XCOM concept videos is there was an updated version of the old X-Com music. I guess that didn't pass for whatever reason. What stuck out for me was how many of the sound effects were already done by the time those concepts were released. Several of the firing sounds, human and alien, Muton roars, and some others I can't recall all seem to be identical in the final product. Not all that interesting I guess but I think about game design processes from time to time. I also play Hawken which is fun but eternally in beta and has terrible sound design, which is why that early(?) completion of certain effects caught my attention in particular.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:38
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It's freaking me out watching this guy's I/I stream where he periodically clumps everyone outside of cover on overwatch.  Still, it's really interesting to see his maneuvering--and is also making me want to start this playthrough over with aiming angles on.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:01
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You're not supposed to be able to miss MEC punches, are you? I ran up to a sectopod, tried to punch it, turned the wrong way and punched the air. I was... not pleased. That said, I started off like the flamethrower, but the guaranteed mega damage of a punch is much more essential for finishing mechtoids and sectopods. I wish I had two punchy MECs instead of one and a flamethrower, so I could 1-2 punch things out.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:03
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1337JiveTurkey posted:A dedicated SHIV slot would help, as would making SHIVs more about supporting actual soldiers than replacing them. Stuff like smoke (or poison gas) dispensers, holotargeting everything in sight or letting soldiers standing next to it recharge per-mission abilities. These are all great ideas. I feel like MEC's were the design team's attempt to redo SHIV's in principle. Also I know you are all having a ball geeking out over the idea of a bajillion soldiers on the screen and time units and sundry other mechanics from the old games but I really really encourage you all to try watching a video of someone playing those old games, suppress your nostalgia and witness just how grindy, and slow, and needlessly granular they play out. The elegance and impact of Firaxis' battlescape design is unparalleled and we need to keep going forward and not back in this realm. ... the new geoscape is boring and unfinished. I have few ways to white-knight that.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:11
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GaistHeidegger posted:It's freaking me out watching this guy's I/I stream where he periodically clumps everyone outside of cover on overwatch. It was a perfectly safe tactic if no enemies were active. A patrol might come along and walk into your overwatch, giving your troopers some free shots and you can still move to cover on your next turn before they get a shot off. I generally avoided it, though, with heavies and snipers, since they're most effective if they don't have to move first. However, EW has certain aliens sometimes enter overwatch when spotted instead of moving. This leaves your troops out of cover under an overwatch, dangerous unless someone with lightning reflexes is handy.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:11
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The EXALT base raid is cathartic as hell. It really reinforces that feeling I mentioned earlier of playing the game from the aliens' side - charging in with vastly superior technology and just loving brutalizing them lightning-fast as they fight a desperate last stand. Their weak, ineffectual weapons bouncing off your armor as you vaporize them with plasma cannons and particle beams. Fighting nine or twelve of them at a time without breaking a sweat. It's awesome. At one point a few of them popped smoke grenades to try and buy a bit more time, and all it made me think of was Alex Mercer in Prototype roaring 'GO AHEAD, DIG IN! LIKE IT'S GONNA MAKE A DIFFERENCE!' 
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Nov 27, 2013 05:11
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Fintilgin posted:You're not supposed to be able to miss MEC punches, are you? I ran up to a sectopod, tried to punch it, turned the wrong way and punched the air. I was... not pleased. It's actually a free-aim before you hit confirm on the punch, although it's pretty weird. I usually go by whether or not the target gets painted red. Deuce posted:However, EW has certain aliens sometimes enter overwatch when spotted instead of moving. This leaves your troops out of cover under an overwatch, dangerous unless someone with lightning reflexes is handy. Mectoids, being assholes, love to do this while their puny naked buddies run for cover.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:14
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Chard posted:It's actually a free-aim before you hit confirm on the punch, although it's pretty weird. I usually go by whether or not the target gets painted red. Ugh, I must have slipped and screwed it up, then.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:15
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Nov 27, 2013 05:19
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Scut posted:These are all great ideas. I feel like MEC's were the design team's attempt to redo SHIV's in principle. I think this is a pretty good summary. I adore X-COM Classic, but almost entirely for the geoscape. I'll take our modern XCOM's battlescape every time. I do miss the sense that you're actually playing against an alien overmind trying to plan its own missions and pursue its own objectives, dispatching ships to court allies, harvest cows, or build new bases. I miss having four Skyrangers with fast-response teams circling different parts of the globe, hoping to catch a supply ship on the ground. I miss manufacturing laser cannons en masse to sell to Nigeria. I miss feeling like the geoscape was a war, rather than a game against a set of rules. But I don't miss inching 18 guys across a cornfield, firing incendiaries at every building in sight, waiting for the bullshit alien omniscience to kick in so a distant Sectoid could start mind controlling all my troops.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:24
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Yeah I'm not a fan of the geoscape 'battles' if you can call them that in EU/EW. If I have 4 firestorms in my hangar bays why can't I send them all out at once and gently caress up that alien battleship instead of sending them one at a time? I also miss multi-ship battles of XCOM Apocalypse which were great to watch. Ships constantly dodging back and forth, changing elevation, causing projectiles to miss and slam into the cityscape. Also if you wiped out the alien fleet late into the game, the next UFO excursion would be alien scout ships and other small craft since they had to rebuild their fleet back up again.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:30
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Scut posted:Also I know you are all having a ball geeking out over the idea of a bajillion soldiers on the screen and time units and sundry other mechanics from the old games but I really really encourage you all to try watching a video of someone playing those old games, suppress your nostalgia and witness just how grindy, and slow, and needlessly granular they play out. The elegance and impact of Firaxis' battlescape design is unparalleled and we need to keep going forward and not back in this realm. This post, best post.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:30
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Nickname: Red
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Nov 27, 2013 05:30
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My Classic Ironman game has gone so loving well up to this point. At least the base defense lets me Retry for some reason, so I can experience the anguish of everyone dying repeatedly. I killed so many god damned Mectoids, Mutons, Sectoids, 3 Cyberdiscs, 3-4 Heavy Floaters, a bunch of Drones, some Muton Berserkers, a couple Muton Elites, a Sectoid Commander, and a grip of Chryssalids. My squad got punished by the remaining Sectopod, Cyberdisc, Sectoid Commander, and Muton Elite. I only have laser weapons I was not prepared for this 
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Nov 27, 2013 05:33
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potaties posted:My Classic Ironman game has gone so loving well up to this point. At least the base defense lets me Retry for some reason, so I can experience the anguish of everyone dying repeatedly. I killed so many god damned Mectoids, Mutons, Sectoids, 3 Cyberdiscs, 3-4 Heavy Floaters, a bunch of Drones, some Muton Berserkers, a couple Muton Elites, a Sectoid Commander, and a grip of Chryssalids. My squad got punished by the remaining Sectopod, Cyberdisc, Sectoid Commander, and Muton Elite. Eh, I had lasers and like 1-2 light plasma. Not that big a deal. Muton Elite I did not have to worry about though...
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Nov 27, 2013 05:38
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Is the Sectopod a foregone conclusion? I had to fight at least one in my non-Ironman run. Disabling shot would've been so clutch if my Sniper hadn't panicked from a Berserker freaking out and punching a dead body. Anyway, it's nice to know that it's doable. Maybe I'll give it another go, but I only have one Colonel (Assault), a Captain (also an Assault), two Lieutenants (Support, Sniper), and then two garbage Squaddies (Support with equipment, a Sniper without). If only I had my Colonel Sniper, it would be a cakewalk, but she got injured a day or so before the base defense.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:46
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potaties posted:Is the Sectopod a foregone conclusion? I had to fight at least one in my non-Ironman run. Disabling shot would've been so clutch if my Sniper hadn't panicked from a Berserker freaking out and punching a dead body. On my first EW C/I run I did not have a sectopod on base defense, but I did have an ethereal on the last wave. Honestly sectopods/muton elites with lasers sounds like some scary poo poo, goodluck man.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:52
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potaties posted:Is the Sectopod a foregone conclusion? I had to fight at least one in my non-Ironman run. Disabling shot would've been so clutch if my Sniper hadn't panicked from a Berserker freaking out and punching a dead body. The base defense doesn't always have a Sectopod, the enemies that show up are scaled to your progress through the game thus far. You'll see some heavy poo poo regardless, but it can be relatively survivable heavy poo poo. For me it was mostly Mechtoids and Cyberdisks.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:55
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General Battuta posted:Ahahaha, I've just been dealt maybe the biggest
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Nov 27, 2013 06:08
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Gotta show off my sniper, she was my crutch in a game I let run way too long because I wanted to fully upgrade three MECs. Training roulette and not created equal hooked me up. I love this drat girl. If there was a cheat code for classic, this was it.  Edit: General Battuta posted:I think this is a pretty good summary. I adore X-COM Classic, but almost entirely for the geoscape. I'll take our modern XCOM's battlescape every time. But I do miss the feeling of a rookie panic shooting people inside the skyranger before they could get out (after the first guy out dies to a wild cyberdisk). That poo poo was funny.
waah fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 06:24
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Away all Goats posted:Yeah I'm not a fan of the geoscape 'battles' if you can call them that in EU/EW. If I have 4 firestorms in my hangar bays why can't I send them all out at once and gently caress up that alien battleship instead of sending them one at a time? What's changed is the management perspective. To build stuff in workshops, you used to have to allot workshop space to the project itself, then allot the engineers. Scientists needed enough lab space to put all the bodies on a specific project. Everyone needed sleeping quarters on base. All your equipment needed general storage space. UFO detection required radar installations (until the midgame), so you also needed those. You needed a hangar for every aircraft you had on site. All of this stuff worked very well, made a ton of sense, and generally ruled pretty hard. The notes people are making about it being a pain to manage multiple bases aren't wrong at all - it did get pretty obtuse to manage numerous different sites, but I kind of enjoyed the larger feel that gave you. The down side to all this is that it basically made the Council of Funding Nations completely meaningless as long as you didn't get a game over due to people leaving. By month 3, you would be making GBS threads out dozens of laser rifles from your workshops and immediately selling them on the gray market, essentially printing money and making the Council's funding at the end of the month seem positively quaint in comparison. But generally, it ruled pretty hard. Contrasting this is the Battlescape in UFO, which, while very fun and made for some awesome stories...gamey doesn't even start to cover how counter-intuitively that poo poo played. To succeed, you had to use a ton of tactics that made absolutely no sense whatsoever from a rational perspective and that no reasonable human being would be able to intuit from simply looking at the interface.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:25
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Scut posted:These are all great ideas. I feel like MEC's were the design team's attempt to redo SHIV's in principle. Yeah I watched a Lp of the original XCOM for about 2 videos before I got bored. gently caress that poo poo, it looks awful. That said I was hoping we'd get more than EXALT - they really didn't do any serious tuning of the geoscape in any way. And I hate to say it but the whole covert ops/EXALT thing almost feels like something you'd get out of a nice content mod. There are a few of the maps that are really challenging, but some of them are braindead easy (like the one with all the tanks parked) even on Impossible (which doesn't seem to increase their health or numbers). The intel scan thing is lame and unintuitive. When are you supposed to use it? Once a month? Fortunately we'll probably see some tweaks to EXALT with the next expansion (and hopefully more than just that).
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Nov 27, 2013 06:38
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waah posted:Gotta show off my sniper, she was my crutch in a game I let run way too long because I wanted to fully upgrade three MECs. I can't claim to know every ability based on its icon, but most of these look like sniper abilities to me! Sick-rear end aim score, though.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:45
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Coolguye posted:You could send out multiple interceptors or whatever in UFO, but they only ever engaged one at a time. Also there was a few different attack modes but they were basically meaningless as gently caress so really the action sequences on the Geoscape are 100% identical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6RPxM_AYMc
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Nov 27, 2013 06:46
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The rock formation behind which my sniper was hiding got vaporized by the first shot of my first outsider encounter, along with my sniper. The abduction mission after that gave me $200 instead of the engineers I selected. Australia wanted a satellite, but since it was the first month, I didn't want to give them my only one so far because I wanted to get more money from the council, so I ordered an extra, to be completed the last day of the request but still in front of the expiration in the queue. Finish satellite, request expires at the same time. 
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Nov 27, 2013 06:47
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Geight posted:I can't claim to know every ability based on its icon, but most of these look like sniper abilities to me! Sick-rear end aim score, though. Snipers always get Squadsight/Snapshot and In The Zone/Double Tap, so he only actually got a single random sniper skill along with a bunch of assault skills.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:47
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