dos4gw posted:

Anyone had any luck with getting a refund on this pile of poo poo?

I have been in back and forth correspondence with Steam support since the day after the game came out. They have refused to refund me twice and the situation has now escalated. They are alleging that the Distance Selling regulations do not apply to digital subscriptions. Reading the Regulations, they are wrong in my view. I have threatened to issue court proceedings against them on the basis that the court has jurisdiction given that the arbitration clause in the steam agreement is an unfair contract term under the UTCCR 1999.

I am now waiting to hear back. I hope that they will take a pragmatic view and pay out. It is certainly not worth the hassle of going to court. I just want my £40 back. What a loving poo poo game.

BastardySkull posted:

Edit: they also said they can't cause I played it. For 6 hours. My response was yeah I tried to find the game and keep checking after updates to see if it didn't run like poo poo but no luck. Of course I loving tried to play it why did I buy it otherse? Cheeky fuckers.

BastardySkull posted:

What part of the regs did you cite? I just generally waved that one. If you threaten court action they may stop corresponding pending you doing that.

I did say the OFT might be interested in investigating digital downloads and returns if they keep releasing buggy shite.

Edit: they also said they can't cause I played it. For 6 hours. My response was yeah I tried to find the game and keep checking after updates to see if it didn't run like poo poo but no luck. Of course I loving tried to play it why did I buy it otherse? Cheeky fuckers.

dos4gw posted:

I opened a ticket and just asked for a refund without saying too much. When they refused I just mentioned the regulations without going into any detail.

They refused again and said that the regulations didn't apply so I referred to specific provisions. Regulation 4 says that the regulations apply "to distance contracts other than excepted contracts". Regulation 6 sets out the exceptions, none of which apply (they include things like sale of land etc.). I referred to those and also the definition of "distance contracts" within regulation 3. The definition states "any contract concerning goods or services". My reading of that is that it includes the purchase of a licence to use a digital download. I said that those provisions alone were enough to show that the regulations apply. I also referred to the ECJ decision in UsedSoft where it was held that the purchase of a licence to use a digital product does transfer ownership to the purchaser and that any contractual term which purports to exclude that is void. I referred to clause 2 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and argued that it is meaningless, though even if it does apply then it is still a distance contract in any event.

They said the same to me about not being entitled to a refund because I had played it. I said that whether I had played it or not is irrelevant. I mentioned regulation 13(d) which states that a customer cannot get a refund for a physical copy of a game where it has been unsealed. There is no mention in regulation 13 or otherwise of using a digital download as grounds to refuse a refund under the regulations.

It seems that so far, every time I have sent them an email it has taken 2-3 days to get a reply so I will have to wait and see. If you want to refer to any of the above in your own correspondence then feel free but I don't know whether it will work or not.

BastardySkull posted:

I'll have a go, thanks for that. I'm a fan of the Distance Selling regs and any consumer protection rights anyway so it's worth raising this. I said in my original email that they should pass some feedback up the chain for them to vet products a bit more before whacking them on Steam.

dos4gw posted:

quote:

(a)for the supply of services if the supplier has complied with regulation 8(3) and performance of the contract has begun with the consumer’s agreement before the end of the cancellation period applicable under regulation 12;

quote:

(3) Subject to regulation 9, prior to the conclusion of a contract for the supply of services, the supplier shall inform the consumer in writing or in another durable medium which is available and accessible to the consumer that, unless the parties agree otherwise, he will not be able to cancel the contract under regulation 10 once the performance of the services has begun with his agreement.

quote:

IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON UNTIL DELIVERY OF SUCH CONTENT HAS STARTED OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A TRANSACTION OR OBTAIN A REFUND ONCE DELIVERY OF THE CONTENT HAS STARTED OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED, AT WHICH POINT YOUR TRANSACTION IS FINAL. YOU AGREE THAT DELIVERY OF DIGITAL CONTENT, AND THE ASSOCIATED SUBSCRIPTION, AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF THE ASSOCIATED SERVICE, COMMENCES AT THE MOMENT THE DIGITAL CONTENT IS ADDED TO YOUR ACCOUNT OR INVENTORY OR OTHERWISE MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU FOR DOWNLOAD OR USE.

Domattee posted:

their AI wigs out and will sometimes shoot you instead of the enemy

Domattee posted:

Yep, no wings. You can assign a smaller ship to a bigger ship or a station and then the bigger ship/station will manage the smaller ship, but that's it. In theory you can assign crew members to ships and those add some functionality but that is very aneamic too and doesn't work very well at the moment because

The way the fleet/property management system is supposed to work is that a lot of the micromanagement of the previous games is hidden behind middle management. So if you want your combat ships to protect one of your stations and its freighter you just assign the ships to the stations manager and then the station will use the combat ships to protect itself and its freighter fairly intelligently. The problem is that this doesn't go nearly far enough, and the middle management doesn't give you updates enough on what is happening. So if your freighter takes damage the manager won't have it repaired and if it dies the manager won't get/ask for a replacement and he won't tell you that a ship died either. So you end up having to constantly dig through menus anyway to see how your stuff is doing, and it's particularly annoying when the AI fucks up and you see a freighter try to dock to a hostile station since you don't have the tools to order it to jump away as you did in X3. I don't know why they decided to take almost all commands away for ships that are under your directly control, because that's just loving stupid.

I kind of like the new combat system. X3 had a constant problem where smaller ships were either useless cannon fodder for bigger ships to stupidly waste shots on, or overpowered damageboats that ate bigger ships for breakfast. Nevermind how hosed up that got in OOS combat. So having cap ships attack hostile ships with their drones while using their guns to fend of hostile drones works pretty well. At least as long as the AI doesn't go full retard and has its drones uselessly idle while it tries to broadside the other cap. And then it flies through the other cap because caps are more sluggish now and its guns have poo poo range. Calling the new caps bigger TS is complete nonsense though and you should really look up some videos of Rebirth Combat in action.

TorakFade posted:

If only you could earn some good credits without having to micromanage the hell out of dozens upon dozens of ships and complexes...

Flipswitch posted:

How up to date is the OP on Albion Prelude? I've never actually played it, only Terran Conflict.

kedo posted:

Soooo... not to turn you off other mods, but spend literally 10 minutes playing the stock market/SETA game and you'll have enough money to fund a small army. Basically just buy stock in an item that has a lot of turnover (eg. Construction Equipment which will have tens of thousands of units vs. Debris which will have only a couple hundred) when the index is 100+, then sell it when the index is low... maybe 40 or below.

Domattee posted:

I think it's supposed to be based on the stock of various stations within the influence area of the exchange, which is part of the reason it seems so random since NPC traders buying/selling drives it up and down in ways completely disconnected from any actual supply/demand consideration.


EDIT: Some traders buy energy cells from a solar plant. This causes the price to go up since there are now less energy cells in the station. If you blow those traders up, nothing happens because it doesn't impact the amount of cells in that station. Over time the price drops because there are no longer enough traders so the energy cells build up.

kedo posted:

Soooo... not to turn you off other mods, but spend literally 10 minutes playing the stock market/SETA game and you'll have enough money to fund a small army. Basically just buy stock in an item that has a lot of turnover (eg. Construction Equipment which will have tens of thousands of units vs. Debris which will have only a couple hundred) when the index is 100+, then sell it when the index is low... maybe 40 or below.

I simply cannot wrap my brain around the game's terrible UI well enough to manage a huge empire, so I use that tactic to fund a small fleet which I then use to terrorize whatever system I'm in. Bonus points if you park satellites outside a stock market station (forget what they're called) so you can continue to explore and gently caress with the rest of the galaxy while you play the markets.

Unimpressed posted:

Not to bag X3, I love that game, but the stock market has to be the dumbest feature ever added to this series. The gameplay has nothing to do with space. The commodities don't seem to have anything to do with the rest of the game. There really is no value in playing the stock market above simply cheating money in. When I first heard about it, I thought it would actually reflect other occurrences in the game, like if I bought stock in some commodity and then went around blowing up traders with that commodity in their holds, my stock would rise, but it's really just random. An awful, awful feature.

Flipswitch posted:

Thanks. Trying to get my mitts on the EST, but the links in the Egosoft forums are completely knackered.

TorakFade posted:

If only you could earn some good credits without having to micromanage the hell out of dozens upon dozens of ships and complexes...

TorakFade posted:

Ok guys, X3: AP question.

I reinstalled it because I crave space games, but I'm tired of the ol' spreadsheets and micromanaging trading empires. I was in the mood for a more straight-forward experience, but it looks like the vanilla game isn't offering what I'm looking for (it's pretty much impossible to make significant upgrades unless you build a huge trading network to make millions upon millions). If only you could earn some good credits without having to micromanage the hell out of dozens upon dozens of ships and complexes...

BERGfu posted:

i wish there was a way to switch it to German and have english subtitles. I am almost positive that it would be a lot better story wise.

dos4gw posted:

Anyone had any luck with getting a refund on this pile of poo poo?

I have been in back and forth correspondence with Steam support since the day after the game came out. They have refused to refund me twice and the situation has now escalated. They are alleging that the Distance Selling regulations do not apply to digital subscriptions. Reading the Regulations, they are wrong in my view. I have threatened to issue court proceedings against them on the basis that the court has jurisdiction given that the arbitration clause in the steam agreement is an unfair contract term under the UTCCR 1999.

I am now waiting to hear back. I hope that they will take a pragmatic view and pay out. It is certainly not worth the hassle of going to court. I just want my £40 back. What a loving poo poo game.

tehsid posted:

I emailed them saying I knew of people who had gotten a refund. And quoted the developer saying the ~20 fps is enough~ thing and told them I thought that was rubbish, and that I didn't wish to support somebody who had that little respect for the people buying a product from them. I then told them I was happy to have it in steam credit rather then a full refund as I would no doubt put the cash back into steam anyway.

I had the refund the next day.

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

If you gently caress up horribly, the game will replace every invalid ship type with a mammoth.

SovietPotatoe posted:

It isn't. They just have a really lovely writer.