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The word "company" is being applied to each of the comma separated items. It means anything directly related to that company, not anything vaguely related to what they do.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:35
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They build hardware and the embedded software that runs on it. Any possible invention or 'work' related to embedded hardware or software of any kind obviously 'pertains' to their products.
Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2013 00:43
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Call them up and tell them its not feasible. If they really push insist they pay one years salary compensation in return for that right.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:18
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Rescue Toaster posted:Ok, but so for example, it's an avionics company. They build hardware and the embedded software that runs on it. Any possible invention or 'work' related to embedded hardware or software of any kind obviously 'pertains' to their products. Then again, I'm pretty sure a clause like that is basically illegal in the EU, so I'm not really an expert on how things work in the US.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:39
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Putting completely unreasonable and unenforceable clauses in employment contracts is pretty par for the course.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:56
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If you are in California, I don't think NCAs are enforceable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California Obviously if you are not in California, you should look up your rights for your state, assuming you live in the US
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Nov 27, 2013 02:13
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I guess it's technically not a non-compete, it's an invention assignment w/ 1 year holdover that simply has the end result of making you unemployable.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:14
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Cross out the clause, initial above the cross out, sign it and send it back.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:57
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Hughlander posted:Cross out the clause, initial above the cross out, sign it and send it back. This is the only reasonable course of action, and if they bitch about it you can ask them to tighten the scope to something reasonable that doesn't include words like "logical extension" or "anticipated." Or yeah, salary up front for the exact time they expect you to agree to be unemployable and not one penny less, up front. For gently caress's sake. You're not going to use their hardware or tools to make poo poo for yourself or for competing companies, and you won't reveal this company's trade secrets. How about that. Edit: Another example of how vague and bullshit this is that you didn't highlight: quote:a) Results from or relates to any company work assignments given to or assumed by me; Here's how programming works if you are actually programming and have an active and creative, problem-solving mind. You get assignment. You work on assignment. You have to learn something to complete assignment. One day when you're on the can or playing Minecraft your brain goes "Hey, I bet I could use <thing I learned from work> to do <totally unrelated, non-work thing>!" If you make something with that idea, that agreement you signed says your company now owns it. It's bullshit but it still might take the courts to figure that out and at that point you've already lost more time and money than is remotely reasonable. You're going to be learning poo poo on the job on a CONSTANT basis. That line alone is totally unreasonable and despite what Tunga said I think the company means exactly what they wrote. They want to own you and your brain for as long as they can. Keep in mind this is probably mostly the doing of the legal department and not any of the individuals you are likely to be directly working with or for on this job. Just, don't let the company, as an abstract entity, get away with it. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 04:42
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Yo guys, noncompetes are basically unenforcable and the only reason they're there is mostly to scare you into not stealing their trade secrets and starting a new competing company. Even if you did do that, it would be tough for them to even enforce it then. I signed an 18-months-after-termination noncompete for the company I'm going to work for and the best course of action is just to ignore it because that NDA is only worth the paper it's printed on. e: I guess I don't know the software industry in particular but everywhere else I've worked this has been the case.
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Nov 27, 2013 13:04
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Yo you, we should totally listen to you because you're totally like, a lawyer, man. (No we shouldn't, you're wrong.)
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Nov 27, 2013 13:17
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I'm graduating next year, and I have two offers in hand. Oracle would have me working on a relatively small portion of their database system, while Microsoft would have me doing some fairly normal app development. In terms of career advancement, is there a major difference between the two? (That is, if I ended up wanting to change jobs after a couple years, would working on only one thing with Oracle make it harder to do?)
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Nov 27, 2013 17:13
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Amarkov posted:I'm graduating next year, and I have two offers in hand. Oracle would have me working on a relatively small portion of their database system, while Microsoft would have me doing some fairly normal app development. In terms of career advancement, is there a major difference between the two? (That is, if I ended up wanting to change jobs after a couple years, would working on only one thing with Oracle make it harder to do?) I don't know anything about Oracle, but Microsoft recently did away with the much-maligned stack ranking system for employee reviews, so that's huge. I know we have a few Microsofties who hang around CoC. Both are big-name companies that will look great to future employers, so you can't really go wrong.
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Nov 27, 2013 17:18
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Ithaqua posted:I don't know anything about Oracle, but Microsoft recently did away with the much-maligned stack ranking system for employee reviews, so that's huge. I know we have a few Microsofties who hang around CoC. Yeah, they mentioned that in the interview. Unfortunately, they also mentioned that they did away with telecommuting and all the cubicles in the building 
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Nov 27, 2013 17:22
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I work for Oracle so if you have specific questions feel free to PM me. I don't do any DB related dev though. But like Ithaqua said either company would look fine on a resume in the future.
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Nov 27, 2013 17:23
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Amarkov posted:Yeah, they mentioned that in the interview. Unfortunately, they also mentioned that they did away with telecommuting and all the cubicles in the building Is this Oracle that did away with telecommuting and cubicles, or MS? Also, no cubicles? Great! Offices for everybody! Right?  Seriously, no cubicles isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the room is full of programmers who are generally always heads down ripping code, the noise level isn't going to be a big deal, especially if everyone is considerate enough to use headphones when they listen to whatever. The problems come when your open floor plan mixes developers and marketing or sales, or even the rest of IT. Anything that involves using a phone, basically. Either that, or if the room has so many people that the ambient noise level is just that high, even if each individual is otherwise being quiet. My suggestion before making a decision would be to get them to take you to where you would be working on a daily basis, when the rest of the team is there working. Observe. Listen. Decide if this is an environment you could be comfortable and focused in, not just one that you think you could tolerate (because I promise, if you can only tolerate it right now, it will drive you bananers in 6 months). Also, a 100% ban on telecommuting is just idiotic, if you ask me. Sometimes you wake up and feel like rear end, and you're going to get more done if you don't have to smell everyone's stale coffee and listen to everyone breathing. The BREATHING. If they don't trust you not to abuse work-from-home, they shouldn't trust that you're doing anything worthwhile in the office, either. 
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Nov 27, 2013 18:44
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Ithaqua posted:I don't know anything about Oracle, but Microsoft recently did away with the much-maligned stack ranking system for employee reviews, so that's huge. I know we have a few Microsofties who hang around CoC. I've always been curious about Microsoft- I have the feeling that once you enter the Windows ecosystem, your skills won't be as transferable as they were before. Can anybody weigh in on this? I would prefer not to be stuck forever working on .NET/etc, but I guess I'll go through the process anyways once I finish my degree
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Nov 27, 2013 19:13
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Amarkov posted:Yeah, they mentioned that in the interview. Unfortunately, they also mentioned that they did away with telecommuting and all the cubicles in the building MS gives everyone an office. I thought that had been the case for quite a few years now.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:23
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bonds0097 posted:MS gives everyone an office. I thought that had been the case for quite a few years now. Maybe this is only true on the main campus or something? Because all my interviewers were definitely working from an open desk.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:30
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a slime posted:I've always been curious about Microsoft- I have the feeling that once you enter the Windows ecosystem, your skills won't be as transferable as they were before. Can anybody weigh in on this? I would prefer not to be stuck forever working on .NET/etc, but I guess I'll go through the process anyways once I finish my degree Do you think that developers pick a language at the start of their careers and stick with it until retirement? The answer is "of course not". I've been a C# developer for most of my career, but I got started writing ERP software in a crazy esoteric language called GEMBASE. You learn new languages and new skills throughout your craeer, otherwise you become a dinosaur. Also, Microsoft isn't just .NET.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:32
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bonds0097 posted:MS gives everyone an office. I thought that had been the case for quite a few years now. Largely, but Microsoft is a big company. Different groups/buildings do different things. I believe the buildings in downtown Bellevue are mostly cubes and/or open. I think the newer studio buildings on West campus may be some type of cube type deal as well, but I'm not sure. tk fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 19:41
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How long after doing your starting lang/framework should you keep at it before learning something new, if you're trying to diversify yourself, anyway?
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Nov 27, 2013 19:43
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Until you get bored and want to do something else? If you like what you are doing there's no pressure to learn a whole new language.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:45
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bonds0097 posted:MS gives everyone an office. I thought that had been the case for quite a few years now. a slime posted:I've always been curious about Microsoft- I have the feeling that once you enter the Windows ecosystem, your skills won't be as transferable as they were before. Can anybody weigh in on this? I would prefer not to be stuck forever working on .NET/etc, but I guess I'll go through the process anyways once I finish my degree This is a broader problem than just Microsoft. Tech recruiters generally want to place you in a job doing exactly what you did in the last one. You can just as easily be stereotyped into doing one open-source technology vs. another. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 22:29
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This is kind of a theoretical question, but here goes anyway: Where are the entry-level SAP developer positions? I have never seen a job posting looking for a SAP developer with less than 5 years of experience, but learning the thing on your own is practically impossible. (Good luck even getting the software in the first place.) Would you have to basically get a different position inside a company that also does SAP and then hope they'll suddenly want to train and certify you? This is a theoretical question because while the jobs probably pay well I can't imagine them being enjoyable.
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Nov 27, 2013 23:23
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a slime posted:I've always been curious about Microsoft- I have the feeling that once you enter the Windows ecosystem, your skills won't be as transferable as they were before. Can anybody weigh in on this? I would prefer not to be stuck forever working on .NET/etc, but I guess I'll go through the process anyways once I finish my degree Tunga fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Nov 28, 2013 |
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Nov 28, 2013 00:17
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Amarkov posted:Maybe this is only true on the main campus or something? Because all my interviewers were definitely working from an open desk. Ah, good point. I've only every been to the main Redmond campus.
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Nov 28, 2013 01:59
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Tunga posted:I recently jumped from Desktop C# to Android, having done the former for five years and the latter not at all. Java is pretty close to C# in a lot of ways so it wasn't really that much of an issue. If you're a decent programmer then you can probably code decently in any language given a couple of months to get up to speed. I don't think it's a major concern, but you should expect to get asked about it in interviews, why you want to switch and why you think you can. I'm curious about your particular experience. Did you apply to jobs that were significantly more junior than your previous one? Did company(/ies) you applied to view the number of years of experience you had in C# as less than what you had, because you were changing languages? As in "5 years of C# means we can pay him like a Junior developer with 2 years in Android," that kind of thing? Was it tough to get through first-level resume screening without those keywords?
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Nov 28, 2013 02:28
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nielsm posted:Where are the entry-level SAP developer positions? Yeah come to think of it I have never seen an entry level SAP thing. I guess the typical pathway would be working in HR IT and building SAP skills from there. From what I've seen the stereotypical SAP consultant would be an alcoholic mid-forties english guy who is deeply bitter. They do get paid a lot though.
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Nov 28, 2013 02:38
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Che Delilas posted:I'm curious about your particular experience. Did you apply to jobs that were significantly more junior than your previous one? Did company(/ies) you applied to view the number of years of experience you had in C# as less than what you had, because you were changing languages? As in "5 years of C# means we can pay him like a Junior developer with 2 years in Android," that kind of thing? Was it tough to get through first-level resume screening without those keywords? Speaking as a hiring manager for the past 15 years: all I care about is total experience and aptitude. I'd never dream of hiring a 5-year guy in a "zero experience" role. Either he is an intermediate dev who just needs to learn the language, or he's a terrible dev who I wouldn't hire even if he did. I regularly tell recruiters all I want is some OO language, about X years of experience, and a willingness to learn the language we work in. Even with this, it still takes ages to hire and we decline most people. There are too few good devs out there to filter on something as simple as language for many positions (not all, sometimes you need a language expert; but not always.)
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Nov 28, 2013 03:26
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I'm still a few years out from the job market, but Stack Overflow Careers was like "make a profile now or never" so I complied: http://careers.stackoverflow.com/cv/employer/204441 (assume I have a few more publications, etc by the time I graduate) I fantasize about leaving academia by browsing job openings but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for. I'm not looking for resume advice at this point, just suggestions as to what jobs I would qualify for. Is there a middle ground between software developers and "staff scientists" (staff scientist = run a lab, do research, basically like being at a University but without the students and with actually getting paid)? I like programming but it's not something scientists are expected to have time for. At the same time I'd like to be able to make use of my skills as a scientist understanding complex systems through experimentation, modeling, and data analysis. SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Nov 28, 2013 |
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Nov 28, 2013 04:24
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Well, some companies have research labs, like Microsoft and IBM: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/jobs/fulltime/researcher.aspx
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Nov 28, 2013 04:43
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Yeah I think my post was unclear. The part in parentheses was me describing what a staff scientist does, not what I want to do. I'm hoping for a job where most of what I'd be doing is programming but still has some of the science elements.
SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Nov 28, 2013 |
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Nov 28, 2013 04:52
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unixbeard posted:Yeah come to think of it I have never seen an entry level SAP thing. I guess the typical pathway would be working in HR IT and building SAP skills from there. From what I've seen the stereotypical SAP consultant would be an alcoholic mid-forties english guy who is deeply bitter. They do get paid a lot though. I haven't done SAP but from the other enterprise software implementation work I've done, we had some clients who had developers of their own who worked with us on the implementation, writing whatever custom stuff was necessary and going off our published API docs. That way they owned that stuff and had people who knew it when the vendor's PS guys like me had moved on. None of them had any prior experience with developing against the product that I can recall; they just were good in house java developers who got placed on the project. One of the projects I had a stint on was like a three or four year multiple phase affair. I imagine that those folks could very easily walk from there with that experience, and go consult as developers for that product while collecting a high bill rate.
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Nov 28, 2013 05:16
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How are people dealing with extending offer letters? I have 3 coming in the next week, with another one already that's expiring Monday. I want to tactfully get that one extended another week. Is it as easy as telling the truth?
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Nov 28, 2013 18:09
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rsjr posted:How are people dealing with extending offer letters? I have 3 coming in the next week, with another one already that's expiring Monday. I want to tactfully get that one extended another week. Is it as easy as telling the truth? Yes. I'd put a firm date on getting back to them with a definite answer, though. You can certainly say you have another offer inbound.
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Nov 28, 2013 18:20
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astr0man posted:Until you get bored and want to do something else? If you like what you are doing there's no pressure to learn a whole new language. But but but I want someone with 10 years experience in C#, Java, .NET, Python, Ruby, SQL, HTML, CSS, OpenGL, Brainfuck, and PHP. Ideally a college graduate so I don't have to pay them more than $40k.
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Nov 28, 2013 22:05
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I posted my resume here back in September, got some good feedback, went job hunting. Now I've got a job offer! I have the documents and need to read them over and sign them, but the day I got the offer I also got contacted by an HR person at Amazon with a time for a phone interview. I'm pretty certain I would take the job I've got in hand even if I had an Amazon offer also on the table even though I won't start working till April (it's with Thoughtworks), so I should cancel the phone interview with Amazon, right? Part of me is saying, 'oh the interview experience would be good' but on the other hand I don't really want to take up an hour and a half of some dev's day when I'm not considering going further in the process.
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Nov 29, 2013 05:48
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JimboMaloi posted:I posted my resume here back in September, got some good feedback, went job hunting. Now I've got a job offer! I have the documents and need to read them over and sign them, but the day I got the offer I also got contacted by an HR person at Amazon with a time for a phone interview. I'm pretty certain I would take the job I've got in hand even if I had an Amazon offer also on the table even though I won't start working till April (it's with Thoughtworks), so I should cancel the phone interview with Amazon, right? Part of me is saying, 'oh the interview experience would be good' but on the other hand I don't really want to take up an hour and a half of some dev's day when I'm not considering going further in the process. Wow, you got a gig at Thoughtworks? Good job!
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Nov 29, 2013 06:12
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Is thoughtworks a big deal? Go is kind of terrible but mingle is okay
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Nov 29, 2013 06:31
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